King Dedede

Xiivi · Jun 23, 2012

Discuss all information pertaining to King Dedede in this thread.

:dedede:

KRDsonic · Jun 23, 2012

I want D3's chain grab to return. It fits his derpiness.

MasterWarlord · Jun 23, 2012

I want D3's chain grab to return. It fits his derpiness.

Knowing Sakurai, I would not be remotely surprised if it returned, exactly how it was.

Even if he does lose it, I doubt Dedede will see much else in the way of nerfs. He'll keep his existing good grab-game, his gimping, and his godly recovery/super heavyweight combo.

t!MmY · Jun 25, 2012

^ Dedede does not have a godly recovery. >_>

It would be nice if his F-throw and B-throw had some KO potential to them (I don't consider 250% or more 'KO potential' XD). It would also be nice if they fixed the standing chaingrab he has on DK (and Mario/Luigi/Samus). And his Down Special... yeah, that needs work.

Conviction · Jun 25, 2012

DDD's recovery is easy edgegaurd, it's worse than his landings and that says a lot.

If DDD loses his CGs he is going doooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn. Unless his grabs become tech chase related in the next smash, which I would think could make DDD a very interesting and fun character when it comes to grabbing.

They should probably fix his other aerials, Bair can't cover every option.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jun 25, 2012

Dedede should probably go back to using a wooden hammer, instead of a mechanical one. I'd say save the mechanical hammer for Dedede's Final Smash, which should become Masked Dedede...

Bowserlick · Jun 27, 2012

Remove chain grabs on all characters. Throws should start a combo, not just be a combo contained within itself. It cripples the depth of the game and sucks out the flavor when only one move is used again and again and again and again.

Change his final smash. It is lazy.

bubbaking · Jun 29, 2012

xIblisx said:
If DDD loses his CGs he is going doooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn. Unless his grabs become tech chase related in the next smash, which I would think could make DDD a very interesting and fun character when it comes to grabbing.

Funny, cuz this very concept exists for P:M DDD. He's grab>tech chase the character in that game.

They should probably fix his other aerials, Bair can't cover every option.

Also fixed in P:M through L-cancelling.

Let's not forget that Sakurai does not intend for this game to be competitive and Namco Bandai is the team working on this new project, so my expectations aren't too high. :-| Preventing CG's may be the least of their worries but I doubt the same one would make a reappearance. If anything, another CG will become apparent using an entirely different mechanic or something. Also, for the most part, I'm reading ways in which Dedede could be changed in Brawl as it is now but I expect Smash 4 to be an entirely different game, so just giving Brawl DDD some buffs (or nerfs) here and there probably won't cut it.

Now, here's an interesting idea that I also suggested on the Kirby version of this thread. Why not give D3 infinite flying ability? He had it in that recent Wii game, Kirby's Return to Dreamland. Here's the relevant section of that post from the Kirby thread:

Infinite flying - Yes, you heard me right! The ability to fly infinitely! This power was present in nearly ALL of Kirby's games and it's not fair to him to remove such a trademark talent. However, I'm not without my reasoning. To counter this, Kirby would hurt himself for every aerial jump he performs past five. Of course, this still would not truly offset his incredible stalling ability so I'd need to think of something else to make this fair, but I really think Kirby should at least be allowed the choice to fly around forever like he does in all his regular games.

Basically, replace Kirby in that post w/ DDD and you're golden. You'd have two Kirby chars with this ability (the same doesn't have to be done for MK; he'll get other stuff).

All in all though, I think pretty much all of D3's moveset is very fitting for him as a char and does not need to be changed conceptually. Maybe alter a few things to make them better or worse.

FrozenRoy · Jun 30, 2012

Bowserlick said:
Remove chain grabs on all characters. Throws should start a combo, not just be a combo contained within itself. It cripples the depth of the game and sucks out the flavor when only one move is used again and again and again and again.

Change his final smash. It is lazy.

Chain throws aren't all even intentional, so don't expect to not be seeing any any time soon.

bubbaking · Jul 3, 2012

^ True fact.

Shadow Blitz · Jul 9, 2012

I wouldn't mind if his chain throw stayed and gave him about a free 20% across FD. However, he should not be able to infinite anyone as this would shutdown those characters, as seen with 5 characters in brawl. I would like to see his air speed increase, but other than that I am fine with brawl D3.

t!MmY · Jul 12, 2012

I wouldn't mind Dedede losing his chain grab as long as he could build damage and get KO's as well everyone else. (i.e. It would be nice if he had some combos and some reliable KO options).

In all practicality, the chain grab isn't that great as a general strategy... but against specific match-ups it's very good, if not too good (lol DK). This is obviously not a 'balanced' build for a character, especially considering it's Dedede's main strat.

allshort17 · Jul 12, 2012

Personally, I think all the CG's are balance except for IC's. They all either have character, stage length, or percent limitations. I would love to see them back. I know that they are going to go, but what he really needs to retain is his huge grab range. I felt that is what made him a true grappler and really the only true, traditional grappler in the game. It added depth that didn't mean to, so I hope they see that.

They need to keep dtilt, bair, uptilt, fair, ftilt, his smashes, and bthrow the same. I wish dair and uair had less ending lag so he could get more combos off of them. I want jab to be faster where if it does hit, you can't just grab before the next hit happens. UpB needs to retain all it's superarmor and maybe more until you start coming down from the apex of the jump. I really want waddle doos to come our more (like %20 percent chance) and waddle dees to attack more. That would make Dedede have more of a trap element to him. Inhale needs to have a little more priority and I would like to see the windbox be able to pull people below him up. I think he was pretty balanced along with the other borderline/high tier characters and Wario. If they didn't change him at all I would be fine with it. But sadly, he will. And he will be mid/low tier.

t!MmY · Jul 12, 2012

So, you think King Dedede's chaingrab is 'balanced'? He can't chaingrab about half the characters in the game, but he can infinite Mario\Luigi\Samus\Snake\DK. I think that if his chaingrab were 'balanced' that he would be able to chaingrab all the characters and that it would stop working after a certain percent.

Granted, if they took his chaingrab away (or nerfed it in any way), Dedede would have almost nothing to fight with. It either needs to remain and be more 'balanced' or be replaced with some other way of building damage on his opponents (such as guarenteed hits out of his throws).

In other words, if he's going to be a 'grappler' character, then his Grab game needs to be effective on all characters but not godly-good in the DK vs Dedede sense.

And yay to Waddle Dee attacking more often.

allshort17 · Jul 12, 2012

Not his CG, but all the CG's in general. They all had different quirks to them, but none of them (except for IC's) had infinite on all characters. His just had it's own restraints to it. I think the closest one you described was Falco's CG, but I don't want all the CG's to be like his. Just not like the IC's.

Bowserlick · Jul 12, 2012

Chaingrabs need to go. Throws should be for KOs, combos into other NON-THROW moves, a means of adding distance between characters, or racking damage.

Chaingrabs take the depth out of grabs and, on the flavor side, makes for a boring visual fight.

Have King DeDeDe keep his long grab range. He seems like he is a heavyweight spacing-character. A long grab range compliments his fighting style. But no more infinities and no more chain grabs.

I think if a character tries to grab after he or she already threw an opponent, the grab turns into a pushing animation that has lag if it connects (recoil from the push).

MysteryRevengerson · Jul 12, 2012

All I want are kill moves that aren't impossible to land.

You'd figure heavyweights would be able to -kill- easily.

bubbaking · Jul 16, 2012

t!MmY said:
So, you think King Dedede's chaingrab is 'balanced'? He can't chaingrab about half the characters in the game, but he can infinite Mario\Luigi\Samus\Snake\DK.

Well, tbh, D3's CG only doesn't work on the lightest 13 chars in the game and there are over 35 seperate chars iirc, sooooo.....yeah.

In other words, if he's going to be a 'grappler' character, then his Grab game needs to be effective on all characters but not godly-good in the DK vs Dedede sense.

This is an excellent concept, but it's been my experience that grappling chars usually tend to suck or be inferior in some way in their respective franchises, e.g. Zangief (SF II), Alex (SF III), Hakan (SF IV), Haggar (UMvC 3), Chouji (Naruto: CoN), Iron Tager (BB), Bowser and Yoshi (SSBM and SSBB)

lordvaati · Jul 16, 2012

But there are some good Grapplers, like Potemkin from guilty Gear, Astaroth from Soul Calibur, and Tvc's version of Alex.

guess it's a flip of the coin kinda thing.

bubbaking · Jul 16, 2012

True, but part of their "goodness," so to speak, is due to the incredibly high amount of damage each of these chars doles out per hit. As far as Brawl goes, DDD doesn't dole out much damage aside from his CG and his side throws. Remove his CG and it becomes pretty difficult for D3 to fill in that 'good grappler' status.

t!MmY · Jul 19, 2012

Not only does he not deal out consistent damage, but he doesn't have a consistent KO option either. Sometimes it feels like I get more KO's with Gordos then I do with smash attacks. XD

Bowserlick · Jul 19, 2012

Have King DeDeDe run faster and jump further when charging his mallet. It does have a thruster spouting fire on one end after all.

This will make his Down B more useful, as well as complementing his long range game. And effectively giving him a running smash since he cannot rely heavily on his regular smash.

jigglover · Jul 20, 2012

Why are you all immediately into D3 like it's a definate that he'll get in, it's not.

bubbaking · Jul 20, 2012

Why not be into him? It's not definite that ANY of the chars listed in the parent thread of this thread are gonna be in the next Smash. Most of us are posting here because we're enthusiastic about DDD and would like him to be in the next Smash. Whether he actually ends up in it or not doesn't really matter.

Opossum · Jul 20, 2012

Not to mention it's extremely likely that he'll get in...he's completely unique (even his Inhale's different) and popular to boot. I don't see why he wouldn't be in, jigglover.

Veggi · Jul 20, 2012

I think it would be cool if Dedede's down smash moved him forward a lot like in Brawl Minus and Return to Dreamland.

Heartstring · Jul 20, 2012

Veggi said:
I think it would be cool if Dedede's down smash moved him forward a lot like in Brawl Minus and Return to Dreamland.

It should replace his Down-B if you want it to shift him like that. and charging it would change the distance he slides. and just give him a new D-smash animation

Dedede will certainly be in. Kirby has gotten a glut of new games with dedede in there and not to mention he's one of sakurai's creations. He is clearly going to favour his own franchise (it wouldnt surprise me if we got 4 kirby characters next game)

wishlist for dedede in SSB4:
Remove chaingrab, make the Dthrow sit them on the floor instead, like snake Dthrow.
Make Bthrow kill early, that way they have to decide whether they want to use it for killing, or for doing damage
Do what i said above with dsmash/downB
give him less landing lag on his Upb, all 3 forms of landing lag
make him die earlier, particularly off the top. He's WAY too heavy

Diddy Kong · Jul 20, 2012

Whatever happens with DeDeDe, I don't care. As long as in the next game Donkey Kong becomes a hard counter against him.

bubbaking · Jul 21, 2012

Why do you care? Diddy always won that MU hands down. You're DK's form of revenge! >;-|

Enlong · Jul 28, 2012

Who else thinks that it would be really cool if Masked Dedede became an alternate costume for him? It wouldn't even need to interfere with his sucking attack; the mask can just flip up like it does in Revenge of the King.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jul 28, 2012

Enlong said:
Who else thinks that it would be really cool if Masked Dedede became an alternate costume for him? It wouldn't even need to interfere with his sucking attack; the mask can just flip up like it does in Revenge of the King.

I pictured Masked Dedede as a Final Smash. Basically, Dedede would temporarily replace his wooden hammer with a mechanical hammer, and put on his mask. For about half a minute, Dedede gains access to moves that he normally can't use, and he becomes harder to send flying too.

Deleted member · Feb 21, 2013

I know alot of people were upset about King Dedede's chain grab. I was his down b throw. I predict they're tweak him which knocks the opponent away.

himemiya · Jun 1, 2013

They should use some of pmbr ideas. Like glide tossing by airdodging by a walladee and angable, suck/spit to fair being garuanteed, or sliding when releasing the bomb. D3 should NOT get any nerfs and should still have his chaingrab/super-armor in his up-b.

FalKoopa · Jun 1, 2013

Not really in favour of keeping the chaingrab, but I agree with the rest.

MasterOfKnees · Jun 1, 2013

FalKoopa said:
Not really in favour of keeping the chaingrab, but I agree with the rest.

Wouldn't surprise me if chain grabbing is removed from the game completely, considering Sakurai wants Smash Bros to be accessible, and it probably isn't very fun to go online only to have D3 chain grab you into a corner, not to mention ICs. In all honesty it isn't a very fun part of the game either, it's not especially fun to do, and it's not fun to be chain grabbed, so I wouldn't mind.

D3 has enough going for his character that he'd be able to survive without it regardless.

_R@bid_ · Jun 1, 2013

Honestly, I don't understand anyone who wants ANY chain grab/ infinite. All they do is screw up the game
. True combos in general are toxic to a game focused around DI and variable knockback.

bubbaking · Jun 6, 2013

himemiya said:
They should use some of pmbr ideas. Like glide tossing by airdodging by a walladee and angable, suck/spit to fair being garuanteed, or sliding when releasing the bomb. D3 should NOT get any nerfs and should still have his chaingrab/super-armor in his up-b.

What do you mean by "sliding when releasing the bomb"?

himemiya · Jun 6, 2013

His down-b in pm.

Z1GMA · Jun 17, 2013

Remove his Chaingrab and make his Bair less spammable, and he's ready to go.

grizby2 · Jun 17, 2013

I really hated that fact that if you canceled his UP-b too close to the ground, he went into that crappy long downed state... same for when he hit his on a ceiling. talk about punishment time :\

oh, and remove chain grabs and such.

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