Kirby

Xiivi · Jun 23, 2012

Discuss all information pertaining to Kirby in this thread.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jun 23, 2012

I'd say that Kirby should get a new Final Smash. Ultra Sword sounds like a good replacement.

MikeKirby · Jun 23, 2012

Make N-air as fast as b-air and have less aerial cooldown.

Make copying an opponents ability safer.

Shadocat · Jun 23, 2012

bring back smash 64 kirby. was soooooo raaaaaaaaaaaapeeeeeee

MikeKirby · Jun 23, 2012

The reason why 64 Kirby was that great was because of the game mechanics. With more options now, such as air dodging, an offensive aerial game and a great off-stage gimping ability is not so overpowering anymore. Although, I never played 64 that competitively.

t!MmY · Jun 24, 2012

The reason why Kirby was so good in SSB is because it was before he was hit with the nerf hammer. Wait, it wasn't a nerf hammer, it was a nerf nuclear warhead. Going into Melee they stripped him of all his combos, crippled his speed, and took every single way of getting a KO away from him. In return they gave him a better U-air, a worthless Hammer, and a cool U-throw.

Kirby's better off in Brawl, but he's still lacking a lot compared to his better days. He just needs a faster N-air/D-air/F-air and a good set-up for other KO options. It would be awesome if he got his N64 N-air back again.

Octorox · Jun 24, 2012

It would be cool if the copy ability had more of an effect on Kirby's overall moveset (or at least specials), In most recent Kirby games, when he sucks up an opponents power, he gains not just one move but a whole set of moves based on that ability.

Bowserlick · Jun 27, 2012

Might as well keep the tradition and give him a new dash attack. I thought he was fairly balanced in Brawl.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jun 27, 2012

Kirby's dash attack from Super Smash Bros. should be given a comeback. It's not as slow as the other dash attacks that Kirby has had after all.

bubbaking · Jun 29, 2012

Sakurai does not intend for this game to be competitive and Namco Bandai is the team working on this new project... :'-| Also, I'm reading ways in which Kirby could be improved in Brawl as it is now but I expect Smash 4 to be an entirely different game with hopefully different mechanics, or it would really be more of an update than a sequel. Therefore, just giving Brawl Kirby some buffs here and there probably won't cut it. Anyway, now for things that I would like to see in the new Kirby:

Infinite flying - Yes, you heard me right! The ability to fly infinitely! This power was present in nearly ALL of Kirby's games and it's not fair to him to remove such a trademark talent. However, I'm not without my reasoning. To counter this, Kirby would hurt himself for every aerial jump he performs past five. Of course, this still would not truly offset his incredible stalling ability so I'd need to think of something else to make this fair, but I really think Kirby should at least be allowed the choice to fly around forever like he does in all his regular games.
Thorough copying - Perhaps it will never be safe or easy to inhale an opponent, but the reward for successfully doing so should be a lot larger than it is now. For starters, the Copy move should effectively replace ALL of Kirby's specials. One may ask, "What about Kirby's sideB and upB, which he needs for recovery?" Well, recovery won't be a problem if Kirby has the ability to fly infinitely. Thus, his survival would not be affected adversely, even if he copied the entire special moveset of someone like Yoshi. In addition to the standard of copying all the special moves, Copy should also copy select normal attacks. The exact attacks to be copied could be specific to each character swallowed. He might take the flutter kick dair from Yoshi or the fair from Jiggs. An alternative to that would be a constantly varying selection. In other words, the move copied would be somewhat random. As an example, if Mario were to be sucked in during one instance, his ftilt would be copied, but during another instance, his fsmash would be taken.
Changeable movesets - This would NOT be the same as copying an opponent's ability. Changeable movesets would give Kirby a couple or more "standard movesets" that he could switch between. They would be based on forms he's had in his main games, like Sword Kirby, 'Indiana Jones' Kirby, Fighter Kirby, etc. This ability would be somewhat reminiscent of Sheilda's, PT's, and Samus's abilities to alternate their own movesets, but an even better analogue of this ability would be Amaterasu's (from Okami) weapon change ability that she had in Ultimate MvC 3. A reasonable command for this ability would be downB. As it is now, Kirby's downB is rarely used, much less as the "invincible attack" it was intended to be. Turning it into this 'Change' move would be both practical and familiar, since this same action does the same thing for PT and Sheilda.

lordvaati · Jun 29, 2012

I think the theme is that Kirby gets a different dash attack each game.

2 things I'd like to see:

-the ability for inhale to suck up projectiles and give to the ability to spit hem back

-Crash Kirby as a Final Smash

DakotaBonez · Jun 29, 2012

More of his attacks need to be his copy powers.
FireBall as his dash attack
Spike as his Up Smash
Freeze as His Down Smash
etc.

bubbaking · Jun 29, 2012

DakotaBonez said:
More of his attacks need to be his copy powers.
FireBall as his dash attack
Spike as his Up Smash
Freeze as His Down Smash
etc.

Yeah, you're right. Refer to the part of my above post about changeable movesets. Those things could most definitely be part of them. Like, he could get multiple usmashes, one for each form. :D

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jun 29, 2012

In Kirby 64, Kirby couldn't fly forever, so giving him only "5" mid-air jumps sounds fair enough. Of course, Kirby's air speed could always be given a buff.

bubbaking · Jun 29, 2012

Well, tbh, I said nearly all Kirby games allowed him to fly forever.

5 mid-air jumps could be fair enough, especially if he gets a speed boost to make his aerial mobility comparable to Jiggs. I'm kinda sad, making posts like these about what I want the new Kirby to be like, cuz I'm almost assuredly going to be disappointed........greatly. =((

Vinylic. · Jun 30, 2012

I might as well discuss what his Final Smash would be (if there will be one in the upcoming game).

Since Kirby's Return to Dreamland came out, I will expect the developers will make an FS that has to do with Kirby's super abilities. But which one? Which super ability seems to be the most affirmative?

[COLLAPSE="Ultra Sword"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Monster Flame"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Flare Beam"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Grand Hammer"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Snow Bowl"]

[/COLLAPSE]

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jul 1, 2012

Ultra Sword is the most iconic, especially since it's used to finish off Grand Doomer and Magolor's first phase.

bubbaking · Jul 3, 2012

Perhaps now, characters will have a FS attack for each directional special move. Counting forwards and backwards as separate inputs, that would make 5 possible FS attacks for each char, just perfect for including each of Kirby's RtD super abilities.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jul 6, 2012

It probably won't happen, but a third jump replacement probably wouldn't hurt. Hi-Jump looks like it could do the job, especially if you can jump diagonally.

t!MmY · Jul 6, 2012

bubbaking said:
Sakurai does not intend for this game to be competitive

I have not heard this, please link me to the source where you got this info. Thanks.

Kewkky · Jul 6, 2012

I wouldn't mind Kirby having a different special moveset for every copy ability he has. It's a big amount of data, but i would definitely love it. A different upB, downB, sideB and neutral B every time he copies an ability. I mean, B moves are called "special moves" and Kirby copies the enemy's "special" attack, doesn't he?

Kirby's N64 nair would be GREAT, or something similar. Fair also needs to be faster!

Final Smash should either be Crash, or Mike. Really, just one of the full map attacks he's had in almost every Kirby game after NES so far. Crash can spread out from Kirby like how FF7's Ultima animation looks like, then disappears once he's done and Kirby just sits there helpless for a little while. Mike could be used 3 times, but each hit would have to be slightly weaker than most other Final Smashes for it to not be too good.

Also, give him a zair! It could be him spitting out air only if he's double-jumped, much like in his games! That'd be pretty sweet.

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head. :o

bubbaking · Jul 7, 2012

t!MmY said:
I have not heard this, please link me to the source where you got this info. Thanks.

http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=443

Also, check out this thread where Smashers discuss the issue regarding Smash in general.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158790&

Eternal phoenix Fire · Jul 8, 2012

bubbaking said:
http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=443

Also, check out this thread where Smashers discuss the issue regarding Smash in general.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158790&

This issue was known already, but regardless of what is said people will find a way to make it competitive.

And another thing, people need to stop confusing competitive with game depth. He doesn't need the game to cator to our audience, but the characters don't need to have such bland designed that they can't have a formulated play style.

And Sakurai has contradicted himself twice regarding this competetive issue. He says that players should praise the winner for putting up a good fight, but the intention of Brawl was to design all the characters so that if by any chance a more seasoned and experienced player played, he would be forced to play at that level. How can you respect the winner if he is incable of showing what he is capable of? In the real world this doesn't creat respect, just arrogant people who are tricked into believing they are capable of beating someone vastly superior to someone.

His second contradiction was Kid Icarus: Uprising.

yoshi8984 · Jul 8, 2012

DakotaBonez said:
More of his attacks need to be his copy powers.
FireBall as his dash attack
Spike as his Up Smash
Freeze as His Down Smash
etc.

I like this idea.

I'd want Kirby to have more range and priority.

I'd like his inhale to do damage like it does in brawl minus.

As for his Up-B, maybe it could be changed to Parasol?

VictoryIsMudkipz · Jul 9, 2012

i want Kirby to be able to absorb/suck/swallow/notgoingthere items like if he swallowed the fire flower he would turn into fire kirby like in his franchise, now im not ditching him being able to swallow characters, but I would like it to expand more, & oh how I miss his fireball dash

t!MmY · Jul 12, 2012

bubbaking said:
http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=443

'I think that the notions of victory and defeat are engraved in our DNA—they're very strong forces.'

'Competition is the core of gameplay.'

'There is no doubt that competition makes games more engaging'

'It’s good to have equals fighting intensely.'

That was a pretty cool article, but I was actually asking for the source where Sakurai claims to be against competitive play (specifically for the Super Smash Bros. series). Time and again he has proven to be in the business of making competitively-viable multiplayer games.

The shadow Kirby · Jul 13, 2012

I think Kirby should keep all traits only to keep it fair (cept the final smash which should be were he inhales someone and gains their smash or get super item)btw if they give uneven traits they have to ban him tournaments. <(-'.'<)

bubbaking · Jul 16, 2012

t!MmY said:
'I think that the notions of victory and defeat are engraved in our DNA—they're very strong forces.'

'Competition is the core of gameplay.'

'There is no doubt that competition makes games more engaging'

'It’s good to have equals fighting intensely.'

That was a pretty cool article, but I was actually asking for the source where Sakurai claims to be against competitive play (specifically for the Super Smash Bros. series). Time and again he has proven to be in the business of making competitively-viable multiplayer games.

"There is no doubt that competition makes games more engaging, but depending on the person, competition may create different reactions."

"An example: a game is built with such depth that it brings to a player's mind memories of defeat. As a game designer, I can't ignore this possibility. If, in a multiplayer fighting game, only the winner feels good and the other challengers get no such feeling, then there is really no joy at all. No matter how people play, I want everyone to be happy! Is this asking for too much?"

"The game I worked on, Smash Bros., is a fighting game, but keeping in mind such reasoning, I set out to make sure the game did not over-emphasize the notions of victory and defeat."

"There is a mechanism of accidents [tripping] occurring, balanced so that the game's progress and results falter easily [fluke/random wins]. Whether you win or lose, you enjoy a hearty laugh, and move on to the next round. I think this makes quite a good game."

Don't get me wrong. It's most definitely true that, time and again, Sakurai has made competitive games, but I think his true intentions were voiced in this article. As Eternal phoenix Fire said, "Regardless of what is said people will find a way to make it competitive.

And another thing, people need to stop confusing competitive with game depth. He doesn't need the game to cator to our audience, but the characters don't need to have such bland designed that they can't have a formulated play style."

I guess the best thing to do now is just wait and see what happens.

t!MmY · Jul 19, 2012

Those quotes are cool, they help remind us to applaud the winner and enjoy playing the game - core concepts behind a competitive mindset and good sportsmanship. This is why Sakurai makes awesome games for competitive and casual alike.

Jaedrik · Jul 20, 2012

Make his neutral B instantly KO the opponent, like he does to everything else he eats.

asia_catdog_blue · Jul 20, 2012

What? Cook is not enough for you people?

Mario & Sonic Guy · Jul 20, 2012

MonK4 said:
Make his neutral B instantly KO the opponent, like he does to everything else he eats.

That would be overpowering though, and literally unfair in a competitive environment.

bubbaking · Jul 21, 2012

Make it his Final Smash. It would be no different from Marth's current one.

yoshi8984 · Aug 6, 2012

Oh yeah has anyone thought of Stone having hitboxes as Kirby transforms back to normal? It has done that in some Kirby games and it'd make Stone a bit safer.

asia_catdog_blue · Aug 12, 2012

Not important, but I remember that the Nintendo Power Player's Guide had a name for every attack that the characters had and used in Melee. Here is Kirby's.

-Weak Attacks

1-2-Multi-Hit: Right Punch, Left Punch, Vulcan Jab

Strong Attacks

Upward: Back Kick
Forward: Spinning Kick
Downward: Squish Kick

SMASH ATTACKS:

Upward: Kirby Flip Kick
Forward: Smash Kick
Downward: Propeller Kick

Dash Attack: Fire Kirby(Fireball)

Aerial Attacks:

Center: Twinkle Star
Front: Spiral Kick
Back: Drop Kick
Up: Floating Flip Kick
Down: Screw Driver

Special Attacks

Standard B: Swallow
Foward B: Hammer
Upward B: Final Cutter
Downward B: Stone

Grapples and Throw Downs

Pummel: Slap
Front: Power Bomb
Back: Brain Buster
Up: Ninja Drop
Down: Victory Dance

I think this is right.

DakotaBonez · Aug 25, 2012

I rarely play kirby so sorry if I sound like a dumbf#$% for asking this. But I just noticed today that kirby's got a diagonal attack, activated by moving the analog stick in the down right position and pressing the attack button. It's a kick that lands between his low kick and side kick.

Anyway what I wanted to ask was, do any other characters have diagonal attacks?

Robert of Normandy · Aug 25, 2012

DakotaBonez said:
I rarely play kirby so sorry if I sound like a dumbf#$% for asking this. But I just noticed today that kirby's got a diagonal attack, activated by moving the analog stick in the down right position and pressing the attack button. It's a kick that lands between his low kick and side kick.

Anyway what I wanted to ask was, do any other characters have diagonal attacks?

I believe all characters side Tilts and Smashes can be angled up or down, which is what I assume you found.

DakotaBonez · Aug 25, 2012

I guess I was so used to playing Yoshi and Ganon that I always looked over that. Also no one ever mentions it in movesets. Damn I need to spend less time on this forum and more time in the game.

bubbaking · Aug 26, 2012

shinpichu said:
I believe all characters side Tilts and Smashes can be angled up or down, which is what I assume you found.

Ehhh, not ALL tilts and smashes. I'm fairly certain the Spacees' fsmash couldn't be angled up or down in Melee or Brawl since it was a spinning butterfly kick or a 'top-to-bottom' swipe. Same thing goes for Marth's and Roy's fsmash and ftilt. Along those lines, I also don't think Puff or Kirby could angle their fsmashes, either. Come to think of it, there were a LOT of chars who couldn't angle their side tilts and/or smashes:

Smashes:

Spacees
FE chars
Links
G&W
Jiggs
Kirby
Sheik
ICs
Snake
Wario
DDD
Oli
Peach
Pit
MK

Tilts:

Sheik
FE chars
Links
Peach
G&W
MK
Snake
DDD
Wolf
Ivy

I'm pretty sure that I'm missing a lot, but those are the ones I'm fairly certain about. Looking at that list, I realize that no sword-wielding char (excluding Kirby and Ganon) was ever able to angle his tilts or smashes. The only one I'm not sure about is MK, 'cause I can't remember if he could angle his fsmash or not, but I don't think he could...

Robert of Normandy · Aug 26, 2012

bubbaking said:
Ehhh, not ALL tilts and smashes. I'm fairly certain the Spacees' fsmash couldn't be angled up or down in Melee or Brawl since it was a spinning butterfly kick or a 'top-to-bottom' swipe. Same thing goes for Marth's and Roy's fsmash and ftilt. Along those lines, I also don't think Puff or Kirby could angle their fsmashes, either.

My bad, I thought it was a universal thing.

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