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Enter The Darkness: Dark Samus Support Thread

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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Enter....the Darkness and the Abyss. Where Insanity is the Law and Darkness is Light. Enter the Phaaze and be Cleansed.....For Night is Coming and All shall be in Shadows



Enter: Dark Samus

Dark Samus is the main antagonist of Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. Dark Samus is a Phazon being that had taken the form of Samus. While she retained similar abilities to the intergalactic bounty hunter, she has also established a immpressive arsenal of her own. In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, she single-highhandedly enslaved the Space Pirates through the use of Phazon and even (possibly) enslaved the great Ridley with her power. An addition to this, she fought a bloody war against the Galactic Alliance and Samus, turned powerful bounty hunters under her control, and took control of many Aurora Units.

I know some people think Dark Samus would just be a clone or Luigified clone of Samus but, I believe that to be fairly weak argument. I believe Sakurai and his team can make Dark Samus into a unique and amazing character. This thread is to talk about Dark Samus' and her inclusion into Smash 4. Any type pertaining to Dark Samus or Metroid is welcomed but please stay on track. As well, I would appreciate if you support your arguments with logic and not just "Dark Samus iz a clone gey! Ridley is the shiz!!!1" That just makes you look stupid. As well, please don't troll or flame with the intent on making people mad or derailing this thread. Keep it civil, clean, and, most importantly, fun.

If you want to show your support for Dark Samus, please PM or make a post about joining and I'll include your name under "Members". Maybe we can call it a Dark Supporter >o<

Dark Samus = BAMF


Dark Samus utilizes many types of attacks and firepower in battle. Not only can she heal herself with Phazon when she is damaged but can harness the energy to become even stronger. She can use two different types of energy beams: a Shrapnel Beam and and a thin laser beam. Both beam attacks can cause devastating amounts of damage. Dark Samus can also fire Phazon infused missiles and a Phazon based Boost Ball much like Samus which furthers her point to being a darker version of the brave Bounty Hunter.

Aside from Samus' related abilities, Dark Samus can also create ice-type structures which are made from Phazon, flight capabilities, able to release a Phazon shock wave, and, more notably, create clones of herself which are made from pure Phazon. These clones could attack and distract Samus so Dark Samus could launch a surprise attack. In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, she melded herself into the Aurora Unit 313 and became even more powerful.

Those abilities alone show Dark samus can be a unique and powerful character and fit within the Smash universe.

Dark Samus Potential Move Sets

[COLLAPSE="Venus' Dark Samus Move Set"]

Dark Samus B Specials

Phazon Cannon is Dark Samus’ Neutral B attack. Pressing B once will result in three separate Phazon energy shots to travel across the stage. They last around 6 seconds and deals 2% Dark damage for each energy ball. It does 6% damage if hit fully. It can be fired repeatedly by hitting B. Holding down B while cause a Phazon laser to shoot out. It usually takes 6 seconds to charge. Once fired, the beam will shoot out but will end when it reaches a certain length. It lasts around 8 seconds and Dark Samus cannot move during this period. The Phazon laser does 3% every hit and can do up to 10 hits. In total it does 30% Dark damage.

Phazon Pillar is Dark Samus' Side B move. Dark Samus unleashes a series of phazon pillars that either erupt from the ground or appear in thin-air if Dark Samus is in the air. It is a chargeable attack that, when charged, determines how far the Phazon Pillars will travel. If uncharged, it only does three Phazon Pillars and travels about 3 1/2 Dark Samus bodies away. However, a fully charged attack will unleash up to six pillars that will travel 6 1/2 Dark Samus bodies away. It has the ability to travel the entire length of a small stage on Fountain of Dreams or Pokemon Stadium. However, if it hits a wall, it will stop. Each pillar is able to be sweetspotted in it hits right at the point at the top of the pillar but the highest amount of knock back from the sweetspot is the last fully charged pillar. All the others do below average knock back when sweetspotted.

Phazon Boost is Dark Samus’ recovery move and Up B move. Dark Samus propels herself up by using Phazon. Holding B will cause her to continue to soar higher. She can stay in the air for a total of 10 seconds if the player holds down B without stopping. The propulsion is slower though so she is somewhat vulnerable to camping.

Dark Echo is Dark Samus’ Down B move. Dark Samus flips backwards and a Dark Echo dashes out. A Dark Echo, physically, is the same as Samus but it’s speed and strength has been nerfed. In fact, is strength does out a 3rd of the original damage. So a basic attack only does 1-3% damage. The Dark Echo will run, jump, and attack other characters. However, if it gets hit with enough damage, it will vanish. Being hit 1 to 4 times with a basic attack or once with a powerful attack will cause it to vanish. It lasts for 15 seconds before it vanishes. If it is destroyed or vanishes, it releases a powerful Phazon blast that does 12% Dark damage and high knock back. If Dark Samus presses Down B again to summon a Dark Echo while another Dark Echo is on the screen, it will vanish immediately with no explosion and the new Dark Echo will dash out. Two Dark Echoes can’t be in play at the same time.

Final Smash

Aurora Unit is Dark Samus’ Final Smash. Dark Samus’ merges with the Aurora Unit and becomes a giant mechanical being comprised of dark matter and Phazon. Dark Samus/Aurora Unit sits behind the stage and attacks that way.

- Pressing A will fire a single eye laser that does 25% Dark damage in the middle of the stage.
- Up Tilt fires a single eye laser that does 28% Dark damage that comes from the top to the bottom of the screen.
- Left or Right Tilt fires a single eye laser that does 23% Dark damage that comes from the left or right if the screen.
- Down Tilt fires a single eye laser that does 25% Dark damage that comes from the bottom to the top of the screen.
- Pressing B will cause the eye to grow red and a short laser burst will fire. It has a high radius and high knock back. It does between 26-30% Dark damage.
- Pressing Down B will cause a Dark Echo to appear and run around. Hitting it will cause it to vanish.
- Pressing Grab will cause Dark Samus/Aurora Unit to grab the opponent and shock it with Phazon. It does 45% Dark damage.

Aurora Unit lasts for 13 seconds before it vanishes.

Proposed Dark Samus Move Set

Ground Attacks


Normal

Dash Attack – Arm cannon thrust. 9% damage. A quick and far reaching attack that does decent knock back. Fairly fast and no lag at the end.
Neutral Attack – Punches first and then punches with her arm cannon. First hit does 5% while the second does 7% damage. The last hit is slower and is a bit delayed after the first punch is thrown.
Forward Tilt – Short-hop kick. Dark Samus slightly jumps and does a spinning kick in the air. Does 5-8% damage depending on the distance. Has high knock back and can defeat enemies at percentages 100% and higher.
Up Tilt – Elbows upwards. Very fast and quick. Does 6% damage with moderate knock back. very hard to KO; even at higher percentages.
Down Tilt – Crouches and performs a 360 leg sweep. Does 8-11% damage depending on the length. It has decent knock back but it has a long reach.

Smash

Forward Smash – Engulfs her hand in Phazon and punches forward with it. Oppnents ar ehit with Dark damage because of the Phazon. It does between 15-21% Dark damage and has moderate knock back. It can OHKO opponents as low as 70%. It is fairly quick but a slow ending lag that may leave Dark Samus helpess. However, it has a very long reach and a very small blast radius because of the Phazon.
Up Smash – Engulfs her hand in Phazon and then thrusts it above her head. The Phazon leaps slightly from her hand. It has a disjointed hit box and can attack from a small length. It also has a small blast radius around it. It is her best killing Smash move since it does between 13-19% Dark damage. It has very high vertical knock back, a little startup lag, but no ending lag.
Down Smash – Several points of frozen Phazon erupts around her. It is unique since it blocks most basic attacks and projectiles for half a second. It has very high vertical and horizontal knock back. It does 16-20% Dark damage and can OHKO as low as 50%. However, it suffers from both start up and ending lags so it’s best to use to juggle or kill an opponent.

Aerial Attacks

Neutral Air – Spins around while activating her Phazon Booster. It deals hits four times and deals 2% each hit. In all, it deals 8% Dark damage and can meteor spike at the last frame. Extremely quick move with no start up and ending lag.
Forward Air – Spins forward while encasing herself in Phazon. It hits 3 times and does 4% damage for each hit. It does a total of 12% Dark damage for each hit. It is one of her best aerials because it is quick, powerful, and useful in high competitive playing.
Back Air – Activates her Phazon Booster and loosens a short Phazon burst that burns the opponent. Does 8% Dark damage and has one of the highest aerial knock backs in the game.
Up Air – Turns upside down and kicks high in the air with both feet. It has high vertical knock back but suffers from start up and ending lag; especially when Dark Samus lands on the ground right after the attack. It does 12% damage.
Down Air – Kicks her feet down and spins rapidly. It hits 5 times and does 2% damage each time. It totals for 10% damage for each hit. Low knock back and one of the lowest KO abilities in the game.
Grapple Beam – Sends grapple forward, with long range. 3% damage, 6% damage at tip.

Grabs & Throws

Grab – Reaches forward with Grapple Beam. While shorter then Samus, it’s faster. Much, much faster.
Pummel – Burns opponent with Phazon. Does 2% damage for each Phazon burn.
Back Throw – Tosses the opponent backwards and activates her Phazon Booster. Deals 10% Dark Damage. Her best
Forward Throw – Slams opponent down and chucks them with a over-head throw Does 7% damage.
Up Throw – Fully extends the Grapple Beam and thrusts the opponent upwards. Does 8% damage.
Down Throw – Throws her opponent down and slams her heel into them. Does 8% damage.
[/COLLAPSE]

Dark Samus Color Swaps/Costumes/etc

Venus' Dark Samus Color Swap


Arguments/Counter-Arguments

Dark Samus = Samus Clone

darksouls said:
Clones are created due to a lack of time/resources/creativity. It's possible to make a creatively different moveset for any character, especially if that character has a lot of unique powers like Dark Samus.

Dark Samus should not be a clone. She does not use the grapple beam, the bombs, or the screw attack in any of her fights, removing three of Smash Samus' signature moves right off the bat. Her version of the charge beam works nothing like Samus's, instead either firing a shrapnel spread or one thin, continuous beam. She also has a variety of strange powers like cloning herself, turning invisible, transforming into phazon particles, creating large crystals, forming an energy shield, and flight.

Yeah, she's named Dark Samus, but that's about as convincing as saying that Zero-Suit Samus should be a clone.
Mario_and_Sonic_Guy said:
At least Dark Samus appears different from Samus, unlike Dark Pit. Plus, unlike Samus, Dark Samus's attacks would likely be more affiliated with Phazon.



Pictures

Please feel free to post pictures and they will be added here!

[COLLAPSE="Dark Samus Wall of Pics"]







[/COLLAPSE]

Members

If you want to join this thread, please PM me and I will add your name as a Dark Supporter!

Venus of the desert Bloom
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N3ON

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I wouldn't mind seeing Dark Samus in Smash (after Ridley of course), and I think she could work as a unique character (like your creative moveset proves), but realistically I only see her being added if Sakurai needs an emergency semi-clone towards the end of development, possibly like with Wolf.

I'd still like to see her anyway, and I believe she is the best choice for a 3rd Metroid rep.

Also the palette swaps are very nice. ^_^
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Yes, I believe Ridley should come before Dark Samus. That is a no brainer.

But for some odd reason, I just feel drawn towards Dark Samus and would love to see her playable. I can see her trolling the other character and being much more of a challenge compared to the other villains. She is down right sadistic.

She could even play differently with more larger body size but yet lighter compared to Samus with a higher jump. I have a feeling though people will just say she is a clone and doesn't deserve a roster slot ><
 

GTA_Hater_331

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I'd personally love to have Dark Samus playable, but its chances are towards 50/50. I do know that some of its moves include turning into a red orb and launching herself at her target, spraying tiny needles of Phazon in her path, and the Dark Echo cloning. Unfortunately, it's been 1/2 decade since I've played Echoes or Corruption, so my memory of her is foggy. But based solely on the battles in Echoes and Corruption, she would not be a clone. We are running out of super-prominent characters anyway, so I don't see why Dark Samus and Ridley can't both be new additions representing the Metroid series.
 

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She could even play differently with more larger body size but yet lighter compared to Samus with a higher jump. I have a feeling though people will just say she is a clone and doesn't deserve a roster slot ><
Yeah, even if just a semi-clone, I imagine Dark Samus as faster, lighter, and more agile than Samus.

I do agree that she is important enough to not be a clone, but honestly I believe that her best (and possibly only) chance for inclusion is as a semi-clone. At least for Smash 4.

I'd personally love to have Dark Samus playable, but its chances are towards 50/50. I do know that some of its moves include turning into a red orb and launching herself at her target, spraying tiny needles of Phazon in her path, and the Dark Echo cloning. Unfortunately, it's been 1/2 decade since I've played Echoes or Corruption, so my memory of her is foggy. But based solely on the battles in Echoes and Corruption, she would not be a clone. We are running out of super-prominent characters anyway, so I don't see why Dark Samus and Ridley can't both be new additions representing the Metroid series.
I'd love two new unique Metroid characters, but I'd say that her chances are far less than 50/50, especially if she's a unique character.

Ridley barely has any popularity in Japan, and Dark Samus unfortunately has practically none (correct me if I'm wrong here Venus, you would know better). There are many more characters popular mostly exclusively outside Japan, such as Little Mac and Ridley that Sakurai would decide take precedence in adding over an occasionally requested character from a series that will probably already get a new character. And I doubt Sakurai wants to include many characters that have mostly localized popularity (whether it be Japanese, American, European, etc.) because he wants to appease as many people as possibly and doesn't want to overly alienate any region.

This is why I'm guessing that the little chance Dark Samus has would only be as a relatively easy to implement last-minute clone, even if she deserves better.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Ridley barely has any popularity in Japan, and Dark Samus unfortunately has practically none (correct me if I'm wrong here Venus, you would know better). There are many more characters popular mostly exclusively outside Japan, such as Little Mac and Ridley that Sakurai would decide take precedence
I haven't thought about that aspect. Metroid isn't that popular of a series here in Japan from what I have gathered. Most of the kids I talk to know more interested in Mario, Fire Emblem, Zelda, Kirby, and Pokemon than Metroid. That may be the reason why we haven't seen a new Metroid character at all (excluding Zamus).
 

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I would love to see Dark Samus appear alongside Ridley. It's not a crazy thought; Brawl really catered to the Kirby series, with Dedede and Meta Knight ready off the bat, even.

I would probably prefer her more chaotic looking appearance from echoes though. That way they can push that appearance to be more readable than regular ol' Samus. Play up the wraith-like attributes and make sure she's clearly utilizing phazon and her metroid-like abilities, and it would be totally fine.

Also, to people saying she would be a clone, try moving beyond the fact her name is: Dark Samus. Realize she could easily go by her other name, Metroid Prime, and you'll realize why she's so significant to metroid.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I would love to see Dark Samus appear alongside Ridley. It's not a crazy thought; Brawl really catered to the Kirby series, with Dedede and Meta Knight ready off the bat, even.

I would probably prefer her more chaotic looking appearance from echoes though. That way they can push that appearance to be more readable than regular ol' Samus. Play up the wraith-like attributes and make sure she's clearly utilizing phazon and her metroid-like abilities, and it would be totally fine.

Also, to people saying she would be a clone, try moving beyond the fact her name is: Dark Samus. Realize she could easily go by her other name, Metroid Prime, and you'll realize why she's so significant to metroid.
Excellent point. I think many people are hung up because a character looks to familiar to another or, in Dark Samus' case, the name. I also really like the idea of the Echoes appearance.

Something like this:



Almost like she is breaking apart at the seams and, in any moment, explode releasing Phazon into....the Smash world. Plot idea!
 

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Dark Samus is awesome. That is all anyone needs to know.

:phone:
 

Barbasol

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@ Venus
Awesome visuals! That sort of effect could really make DS really stand out! I'd very much like to see the vicious metroid make it into Smash bros, she is most definitely suitable.

Blech... on an unrelated note, really hope they get rid of the mandatory ZSS switch. I bet they might, considering it is a competitive nightmare.
 

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Awesome visuals! That sort of effect could really make DS really stand out! I'd very much like to see the vicious metroid make it into Smash bros, she is most definitely suitable.
It would make things interesting. Even her roll or air dodge could transform herself into a cloud of liquid form of Phazon. That would be very interesting!
 

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At least Dark Samus appears different from Samus, unlike Dark Pit. Plus, unlike Samus, Dark Samus's attacks would likely be more affiliated with Phazon.
 

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I would personaly rather see Dark Samus than Ridley. Sakurai himself said that he thought
it would be nearly impossible for Ridley to be a playable character.
 

majora_787

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I would personaly rather see Dark Samus than Ridley. Sakurai himself said that he thought
it would be nearly impossible for Ridley to be a playable character.
What Sakurai said was that they could have made him work if they tried, but he would be slow.

But anyway. Dark Samus would be awesome after Ridley in smash. I personally feel Metroid merits having 3 reps. I'd just hope Dark Samus wouldn't be cloned, because that would be pretty lame.
 

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I'd say that Overdrive would be the best option for a Final Smash. A full charge shot from her cannon should at least be gatling gun style, just like Overdrive Samus in Metroid Prime 3.
 

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I'd say that Overdrive would be the best option for a Final Smash. A full charge shot from her cannon should at least be gatling gun style, just like Overdrive Samus in Metroid Prime 3.
That would be interesting.

In my move set, I personally chose the Aurora Unit because it is the last form Dark Samus takes before she is defeated, her most powerful, and greatly differs from Samus' Final Smash. The one you posted, while a great idea, seems to close to Samus' Zero Laser. The Aurora Unit looks, feels, plays, and acts much differently than Samus' thus widening the gap between similarities.
 

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Personally, I think that Dark Samus's Final Smash oughta be Skeletal Form from the end of MP2: Echoes. It'd be a transformation super like Wario-Man, and it would make all of her attacks stronger and more visually impressive.

Either that, or she'd metamorphose into Metroid Prime from the MP1, and do... something. Probably like a version of G&W's Final Smash, except with more Phazon puddles.

But yeah, mostly just hopping in to say, yes, I'm an avid Dark Samus supporter, but Ridley definitely needs to come first. 3 Metroid characters seems like a perfect amount, possibly four if Sakurai REALLY wants to push it. IMO if we got a fourth I'd like it to be Adam Malkovich, but I'm probably alone in this.
 

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I think dark samus would be quicker and faster than samus and won't be a clone. Now that I'm thinking of metroid not to start a new topic but..... RUNDAS
 

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After playing Metroid Prime 2, I kind of see some differences that might set her apart from Samus, but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure she would end up being too similar to Samus anyway.

There are a bunch of better options IMO such as Ridley (of course), Sylux, Weavel, Mother Brain, Kraid... whom would be more interesting and bring something new to the table, something Dark Samus simply can't achieve.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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After playing Metroid Prime 2, I kind of see some differences that might set her apart from Samus, but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure she would end up being too similar to Samus anyway.

There are a bunch of better options IMO such as Ridley (of course), Sylux, Weavel, Mother Brain, Kraid... whom would be more interesting and bring something new to the table, something Dark Samus simply can't achieve.
Ridley is a given. Ridley has the right to take that roster spot.

However, Sylux and Weavel are just bounty hunters and hardly have any affect on the Prime series or Metroid in general. Mother Brain would just be too......bossy? She seems more like a Boss to me. As for Kraid, I would say Ridley's "too big and slow argument" should be applied to this guy.

In my opinion, Dark Samus has the next best chances outside of Ridley and can easily be made to have a unique move set and play style. In fact, I think comparing Samus to Dark Samus is like comparing Charizard to Ridley personally. Yes, they are two extreme individuals but still have similar attributes.

1) They can fly
2) They can breathe fire
3) They are DRAGONS
4) They can attack with claws
5) They can attack with tails

While completely two different characters, they are both similar. Same thing goes with Samus and Dark Samus. At least it's not as bad as Pit and Dark Pit ..... :/
 

Jakor

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Ridley is a given. Ridley has the right to take that roster spot.

However, Sylux and Weavel are just bounty hunters and hardly have any affect on the Prime series or Metroid in general. Mother Brain would just be too......bossy? She seems more like a Boss to me. As for Kraid, I would say Ridley's "too big and slow argument" should be applied to this guy.

In my opinion, Dark Samus has the next best chances outside of Ridley and can easily be made to have a unique move set and play style. In fact, I think comparing Samus to Dark Samus is like comparing Charizard to Ridley personally. Yes, they are two extreme individuals but still have similar attributes.

1) They can fly
2) They can breathe fire
3) They are DRAGONS
4) They can attack with claws
5) They can attack with tails

While completely two different characters, they are both similar. Same thing goes with Samus and Dark Samus. At least it's not as bad as Pit and Dark Pit ..... :/
I get what you mean, but I still think Dark Samus isn't a good choice for a Metroid rep.
 

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I get what you mean, but I still think Dark Samus isn't a good choice for a Metroid rep.
Fair enough!

If anyone has any move set ideas or ways to implement Dark Samus in a new way for Smash 4, please post them!
 
D

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While completely two different characters, they are both similar. Same thing goes with Samus and Dark Samus. At least it's not as bad as Pit and Dark Pit ..... :/
It kind of is that bad, at least in Sakurai's eyes.
Especially what he had said about her.
Dark Samus's Brawl Trophy said:
Dark Samus is identical to Samus in every way but color--she even uses similar attacks.
So until otherwise, Dark Samus and Dark Pit are in the same boat. Both can be unique, but both could also be clones.

EDIT: I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, as I feel Dark Samus would be next in line after Ridley. It's just, Dark Samus and Dark Pit are very comparable in arguments.
"Dark Pit's just a recolor"? Sakurai sees that about Dark Samus.
"Dark Samus can be unique from Samus"? Dark Pit can also be unique from Pit.
The argument against one is also against the other. The arugment for one is also for the other.
 

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It kind of is that bad, at least in Sakurai's eyes.
Especially what he had said about her.


So until otherwise, Dark Samus and Dark Pit are in the same boat. Both can be unique, but both could also be clones.

EDIT: I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, as I feel Dark Samus would be next in line after Ridley. It's just, Dark Samus and Dark Pit are very comparable in arguments.
"Dark Pit's just a recolor"? Sakurai sees that about Dark Samus.
"Dark Samus can be unique from Samus"? Dark Pit can also be unique from Pit.
The argument against one is also against the other. The arugment for one is also for the other.
yep, that's pretty much it... check my posts in the Dark Pit thread. I'm not writing the same argument here.

the only case where the Dark Clone should be just a recolor is pretty much Link and Dark Link, as well as C. Falcon and Blood Falcon, because they are too identical in terms of abilities and capacities.

now... Dark Pit? check the thread. Dark Samus? she's a Metroid mutant, so she has quite the different abilities from Samus (albeit she has no personality other than being destructive and chaotic). Shadow Mario? has the paintbrush and is actually Bowser Jr. in disguise. so not all Dark Clones are merely color swaps.

we have to look deeper into the characters themselves, do the research and know about the character's story, characteristics and abilities of him. use the gameplay of the source game as a reference too, so you can answer on why Captain Falcon and Olimar play the way they play.

whenever being a (pseudo/semi-)clone makes sense or not:
examples:
Pikachu -> Pichu = justified, Pichu is a younger Pikachu essentially
Fox -> Falco = justified, both trained as Star Fox pilots, so they share abilities, but, they have their own personalities which reflects on their fighting style, leading to semi-clone status. only one thing that's lazy is the sharing of Landmaster as Final Smash.
Link -> Toon Link = Not justified, the Toon Link games have lot of unique elements to draw from.
C. Falcon -> Ganondorf = Not justified, why would they be in the first place?
Marth -> Roy = Not justified, they are completely different characters, they could have different fighting styles.
Mario -> Luigi = justified, they have very similar abilities, but they also have their own touch of personality, leading to the semi-clone status.
Mario -> Dr. Mario = Painfully obvious, no?

judging from above...:
Samus -> Dark Samus = Should NOT be clones, Dark Samus has entirely different abilites, being of different species, also Phazon based abilities.
Pit -> Dark Pit = Different weapons mean different gameplay, so there is NO REASON for them to be clones, unless laziness
or aliens
. by the way, Pit could stay the same he is in Brawl, while Dark Pit could reference more Uprising's gameplay, so there.
 

bombers14

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89
Dark samus would not be a clone just watch the boss fight in metroid prime 3 on youtube if you didn't play the game
 

DarkSouls

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Messages
150
On the subject of clones...

The idea that a character must be a clone if he/she resembles another character is flawed. Ganondorf was a clone, yet he does not resemble Captain Falcon in any way, shape, or form. Wolf is not a clone, even though he just looks like a spikier Fox and has no significant difference in abilities.

Clones are created due to a lack of time/resources/creativity. It's possible to make a creatively different moveset for any character, especially if that character has a lot of unique powers like Dark Samus.

Dark Samus should not be a clone. She does not use the grapple beam, the bombs, or the screw attack in any of her fights, removing three of Smash Samus' signature moves right off the bat. Her version of the charge beam works nothing like Samus's, instead either firing a shrapnel spread or one thin, continuous beam. She also has a variety of strange powers like cloning herself, turning invisible, transforming into phazon particles, creating large crystals, forming an energy shield, and flight.

Yeah, she's named Dark Samus, but that's about as convincing as saying that Zero-Suit Samus should be a clone.

I'm glad that there's a Dark Samus thread; she's easily the second-most important Metroid character not in Smash who stands a chance of getting in (Poor Mother Brain), and while I like Ridley, I'd still like to see Metroid Prime up and kicking again.
 

JavaCroc

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I'd love to see Dark Samus in SSB4 assuming we get Ridley also. I don't see a problem with two new Metroid reps and Dark Samus really does have excellent moveset potential when one looks beyond her similarity to normal Samus.
 

DarkSouls

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I noticed that Dark Samus was one of the most hated characters in Master Warlord's poll.

I was wondering why. Is it because she looks like Samus? Is it because people think Sakurai would turn her into a clone, even if she is unique? Or is it because people are worried that she'd replace Ridley's spot?
 

Barbasol

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A lot of it is misinformation. The Brawl trophy has some erroneous information that claims "Dark Samus is similar in every way but color." Since Smash Boards no doubt has played Brawl thoroughly, those who don't know Prime, have only that to go on.

The more I think about it, the more I think that DS has a better chance than Ridley, though...

Then again, there's no reason a Samus/Ridley/Dark Samus trifecta couldn't or shouldn't exist in Smash. It's one of the most popular franchises, and while it had a misstep, it's grown substantially thanks to the rave reviews of the Prime trilogy. You'd actually have the core fundamentals of Metroid in these three characters:

Samus - Lead Character
Ridley - Rival, a leader of Space Pirates, the main atnagonists.
Dark Samus - Actually repping the Metroids themselves, the catalysts of the game.

Win-Win-Win.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
But still, it's how Sakurai views her/it.
It's not like it's some random guy that doesn't know anything about the Metroid series, it's Smash's developer.

We know it's an error, but clearly Sakurai doesn't.
 

DarkSouls

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But still, it's how Sakurai views her/it.
It's not like it's some random guy that doesn't know anything about the Metroid series, it's Smash's developer.

We know it's an error, but clearly Sakurai doesn't.
Are the trophy descriptions written by Sakurai?

If they are, there's not much to hope for in Metroid characters. Sakurai said in an interview that he thought Ridley would be too slow, and the trophy description of Dark Samus means she'd only be a Samus clone.

It seems like the only Metroid character we can hope for is Adam freakin Malkovich, and he's just awful.

Maybe the best solution is to spambomb his email with videos of Prime 3's Dark Samus fight...:smirk:
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
He didn't say Ridley would be "too slow".
Like the "too big" bs, that is more fan misinterpretation.

He said that if best efforts were given, he could work, but he'd be a little on the slow side, and asked if that would be ok.

He only said Ridley would be slow. And that is to be expected of heavyweight characters.
 

DarkSouls

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He didn't say Ridley would be "too slow".
Like the "too big" bs, that is more fan misinterpretation.

He said that if best efforts were given, he could work, but he'd be a little on the slow side, and asked if that would be ok.

He only said Ridley would be slow. And that is to be expected of heavyweight characters.
Thanks for the clarification. I looked up the quote.

Nintendo Power: There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?

Sakurai: I think that would probably be pretty impossible. [Laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right? [Laughs]


You're right. The only thing he says that suggests Ridley is unable to be implemented is "I think that would probably be pretty impossible", and the subject of that line is a bit vague.

Meh, I'll still be happy if Ridley's in and Dark Samus ain't, since he's so awesome. And if both got in, I'd be a very happy customer, although it's a bit selfish.
 
D

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The fact he kind of backtraced that "impossible" statement with "with effort, it could be done" kind of renders the "impossible" statement null.
 

Gold Dart

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The fact he kind of backtraced that "impossible" statement with "with effort, it could be done" kind of renders the "impossible" statement null.
Does it? I personaly don't think ridley will ever be playable, and how could he be? He would take up half of the stage. Since he is so big how could any of the other characters knock him of the stage?
 

RedGamer

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What if you gave dark samus a "Phazonified" enhancement of ssb64 falcon's tilts and smashes.
short hop kick would be beast as a neutral air.
both the uair and dair sound like fox's uair and dair.

I would totally main Dark samus if playable!

MAKE ME A DARK SUPPORTER!!
 

DarkSouls

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I think the best moveset for Dark Samus would have her as a medium-weight (Since she's floating all the time, she's lighter than Samus) character with an emphasis on disjointed hitboxes and gimmicks (Phazon corruption, invisibility, flight, cloning, shape-shifting, pick one). She should also have at least one basic "beam" special, probably the shotgun-like attack she uses all the time or just a continuous laser beam with a long startup, somewhat like Falcon Punch in concept. Her main weakness should be close-combat, since she doesn't really fight hand-to-hand. Maybe her attacks are slower to compensate for the large phazon hitboxes they would create.

Does it? I personaly don't think ridley will ever be playable, and how could he be? He would take up half of the stage. Since he is so big how could any of the other characters knock him of the stage?
...Or they could just shrink him. It's not like his size is one of his defining characteristics.
 

bombers14

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Messages
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I want dark samus in behind ridley and rundas. Rundas will most definetley not show up though but even though dark samus could have her own move set, she would still feel like samus with the look.
 
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