ssbm: bias and help and stuff

hey guys

videos up sooooooon

I commend you for doing this, Atomi. To truly get a grasp on what this game can do, you need to play with other people. However, you can play with CPUs for a bit so you can get the general feel of the game. Once you feel comfortable enough, you can check out the Regional Zones. This is where you can check out your region for local players.

Try out characters and try to find a main. You can use the FAQs to get to know more about your character. A really good idea is to watch a lot of matches on Youtube. You can learn a bit from just watching. Finally, in order to get good/understand the characters you're playing with, is to go out and play other people and ask for tips.

EDIT: I recommend to check out the videos Mahie listed as well as those are the general ATs for all characters. Later on as you master these ATs, you will learn ATs that are only available to certain characters such as Fox's short hop double lasering (SHDL) or something of that sort.

Hey Atomi, having you here is actually quite amazing. That EVO poll story has been really pleasant so far, but for it to stir up interest in "haters" (pardon the word) from the FGC community is something I wouldn't have expected.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your stay in the Melee community.

The first thing to do would be to learn general mechanics, which can be learned to some extent in the Advanced how to play SSBM video series.

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiZLs2doK8E
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFmGIOcWdsM

While doing that, I would suggest watching a few tournaments, and really popular videos (this is a prime example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc; or this combo video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYgopUL8kk8) to get ahold of what the scene is like currently, I think it'll make it that much more enjoyable for you to then watch future tournaments, having the background stories in mind, and that should also help you figure out who you want to play, unless you already thought of a character.

You should be able to find content in the various threads of the Melee discussion section.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask them, I guess this thread will be left open for other people in your case.

Awesome, bro. Being realistic, you will probably spend your 5 months grinding out basic tech skill and movement around the stage. lol Just go to a local tourney imo. Everyone's super legit when it comes to helping newbies, so if you can cram consistency into the basic techs and watch a solid chunk of vids for general strategies, you should at least soak in enough to feel like you're playing the game. If you've already chosen a main, I would also recommend heading to that character's forum and reading through a bit of the thread to get a feel for what Melee players discuss. A lot of it will surely seem comparable to elements in traditional fighters (spacing, baiting, optimizing punishes, etc).

If you need some inspiration, search YouTube for some combo videos. There are some amazing vids out there, and finding one you have an affinity for can really help you get a mental image of what you want your game play to look like a month, a year, or even a decade down the road. ;D

Hey, welcome to the community, yeah I do get offended by some of the jokes, but I can understand to a certain degree since they never played Melee. I guess I got into Melee because it is a very technical game once you get into the level I'm at, but gets even higher when you go to tournaments. Melee has so many things to learn about with just one character, each character has very different playstyle, thus forcing you to learn how to deal with those players, and even then someone might invent a new playstyle or play him/her in a way you haven't encountered in the past. I guess most of these are the same for all fighters, but Melee is the one that appealed to me most.

Anyways I recommend starting with some learning and practicing the very basic techniques in the games, there's a little "How to play" video provided in the game, but that's the baby steps. After that I'd suggest researching which character you feel like works best for you, then try the top 3 in your list out, if one doesn't work out after months of attempting to learn how to use him, but you can use other characters, then consider discarding him/her. After that I'd suggest learning and practicing some of the basic advanced techniques such as Wavedashing, L-canceling, short hopping and etc. Here's a link to some good guides, Part 1, Part 2, and finally Part 3 (DON'T ATTEMPT LEARNING ALL OF THESE AT ONCE, Master one at a time!!!!). After watching those, try watching a couple of competitive matches, so you'll get an idea on how to apply those. BTW Melee is the type of game where you'll have to have experience in competitive matches in order to get good.

Anyways, I'm really glad we might get a new smasher, so happy smashing.

Edit: CPUs are probably not gonna help you get good at all, in some cases make you worse.

when you do go to a tournament, be ready for a totally different yomi "style"

it's not traditional in any way shape or form, lots of footsies tho.

Where are you from, Atomi? Obviously someone already mentioned going to the Regional Zones boards, which is a very good idea. Finding other players near you = best way to improve. Practicing on CPUs can only get you so far.

What exactly are you looking for from Melee? Certain characters are better suited for certain playstyles than others. Do you have ANY knowledge of what higher level Melee even looks like or just absolutely nothing at all? Do you want suggestions on high level matches to watch, or specific players to watch?

Help us help you. :D More Melee in the world can only be a good thing. Glad our "Get out the vote" campaign is genuinely garnering some interest.

10 Things that Will Help Every 2D Fighter Player Coming Into Melee:
1. The ledge is a corner. The ledge is a corner. THE LEDGE IS A CORNER.
2. There are a LOT more movement options in this game than a lot of other fighters.
3. Block/grab/attack/move is an incredibly barebones way to look at the game in terms of options. # 2 has a lot to do with why. Understanding the game in the context of these four maneuvers is acceptable but you will find it very hard to improve as much as you used to after you start to get it, and it will get more difficult very quickly.
3a. Footsies in this game are not only about raw spacing but also movement.
4. Oki in this game is weird.
5. "High" and "low" in this game exists but in a very different way. Relates to #9 a little.
6. Recovery is not linear.
7. Platforms make the game way more dynamic. This might be the most difficult adjustment.
8. DI makes combo game way more fun.
9. Mixup in this game is simultaneously really simple but also really complicated. Don't worry too much about mixup, learn guaranteed stuff first.
10. Melee is intense, incredible and accessible; its greatest strengths and its greatest flaws. It's really easy to forget that you're training when you're playing this game because there are so many variables, but don't let that stop you from having fun. It's all about learning.

I find this video rather amusing when it comes to players from other fighting games calling smash a baby game

And some top level matches from Apex to get some ideas of what this game really looks like:
Javi vs DrPeePee
Mango vs KirbyKaze
Mango vs Armada

>finds calling smash a baby game amusing
>links to a top player named "Dr. Peepee"

Welcome to the community, Atomi! I hope you'll stay longer than 5 months because let me tell you: Melee is addicting once you get into it. Your story is quite compelling and it does make me want to help in some way, but everybody else before me already covered most of it.

If there's one thing I CAN say, it's that while CPUs won't help too much in regards to how human players actually play, it's certainly not a bad thing to use them to practice some stuff. Be it basic things like guarding the edge so they can't get back to the stage, how the physics works in combos, how moves work, teching the stage, or even L-canceling (L-canceling is probably the easiest advanced technique you could practice by yourself in Training Mode). Just don't let bad habits against CPUs transfer over into playing human players. Because believe me, the AI in this game isn't that great. Their reaction times are pretty decent, but their decision making is god awful (especially in regards to DI'ing or what moves they use constantly).

I'd also tell you to probably play a bit of the Single Player modes (I mean you pretty much have to to unlock all the characters!) And again while that's still fighting CPUs, it will get you accustomed to the physics and how the game generally flows. It's also nice because it has certain parts where it's designed to subtly teach you how to recover, at a basic level of course.

Beyond that... a lot of your time will be spent in Training Mode. But you should definitely get in touch with players in your area at some point (when you feel comfortable) to help guide you in the right direction and to point out what you might be doing wrong. If there's anything awesome about this community it's the willingness to help you learn about how things work. It's such an old game that it's literally been cracked wide open, I doubt you'd have a hard time finding anyone who doesn't know at least something deep about Melee.

Oh yeah, one thing I recommend: don't roll too much. Whenever a new player gets into the game, they think rolling is like the safest option in the game and tend to use it a lot. Don't, rolling can be very predictable and punishable. Use it sparingly. Same thing for spotdodges, don't try to spam them too much.

That's about all I can say, really. Hope you find a character you like soon and also that if you like the game, you get others into it as well!

Here are the baby basics I recommend learning first:

-How to shorthop
-Your basic options out of shield (upsmash, short hop -> whatever, grab, etc.)
-How to dash cancel - for a newbie this is the easiest way to run up and forward-smash somebody.

These are the things I recommend learning while you're unlocking things. Learning advanced techniques is very important, but if the only thing you can do out of the shield is roll....

I think that it's fantastic that you're so honest with yourself and willing to give smash a shot despite all the crap it gets. Mahie's post has most of the important links in it already, so I mostly just wanted to welcome you aboard. Good luck!

Atomi said:

my basics are probably really basic lol, so...hey, im Atomi. where do i start?

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Honestly, I think your best bet is to spend up to a week playing the single player modes and trying to unlock all of the characters. I think trying to jump head first into competitive SSBM without any sort of foundation in the game's basic mechanics would be overwhelming, and reckless perhaps. It'll be MUCH easier to learn the advanced techniques if you've at least seen the basic traits and moves of the cast and explore the game on your own for a little bit.

Krynxe said:

I find this video rather amusing when it comes to players from other fighting games calling smash a baby game

And some top level matches from Apex to get some ideas of what this game really looks like:
Javi vs DrPeePee
Mango vs KirbyKaze
Mango vs Armada

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Yea that first video will definitely give a better first impression towards smash.

i've always been a fan of other competitive games, mvc2, halo, and sc2 come to mind, so when i got into melee, it was way easier to do it with like-minded friends. see if some of your FGC friends also want to try the game out and play with them; it'll give you that much more incentive to get good, since i know competitive players always want to be better than their friends.

also to me sometimes it seems sf4 and mvc3 can be more hype sometimes but that's because of the larger event sizes, definitely check out mango v armada if you want one the most hype matches ever, hype is personally what attracted me to smash

Nintendude1189 said:

Honestly, I think your best bet is to spend up to a week playing the single player modes and trying to unlock all of the characters. I think trying to jump head first into competitive SSBM without any sort of foundation in the game's basic mechanics would be overwhelming, and reckless perhaps. It'll be MUCH easier to learn the advanced techniques if you've at least seen the basic traits and moves of the cast and explore the game on your own for a little bit.

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Oh damn, these are wise words.

Learning to l-cancel is actually really tough for me, because of one simple fact: you cannot fast fall during hitlag (and different moves have different hitlag). IMO it's important not to learn one fastfall timing, you must be able to be (almost) completely dynamic with it, and know when to fastfall before hitlag starts and when to wait until after. This is an advanced idea but I think you should keep this in mind so as to not get into bad muscle memory habits.

tl;dr : fastfall timing and l-cancel are related and not as straightforward as some guides make you think.

flaw said:

Learning to l-cancel is actually really tough for me, because of one simple fact: you cannot fast fall during hitlag (and different moves have different hitlag). IMO it's important not to learn one fastfall timing, you must be able to be (almost) completely dynamic with it, and know when to fastfall before hitlag starts and when to wait until after. This is an advanced idea but I think you should keep this in mind so as to not get into bad muscle memory habits.

tl;dr : fastfall timing and l-cancel are related and not as straightforward as some guides make you think.

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Some really good advice, 'cause l-canceling was definitely the most difficult technique for me to master, even more than multishining(well doing 2) for some odd reason. LOL

For someone just beginning to get into competitive SSBM, I think there's one thing which is very important to know and which is often overlooked by people who've been playing for years:

This game is very fiddly.

Because Smash was originally designed to be accessible and easy to pick up and play, most of the game's moves are pulled off with two buttons + a direction on the control stick. The drawback of this is that slight variations in pressure on the control stick can have a massive effect, and in many cases if your timing is off by even a couple of frames you can end up doing something completely different from what you intended.

Not going to lie, this game can be incredibly overwhelming to pick up and learn quickly. Pulling off the things that pros take for granted and do every second of every match can take hours and hours of practise to learn how to do in training mode, only to have you frustrated when you find that actually putting these techniques to good use in a match is an entirely different ball game and it can make you feel like you're back to square one. Things like learning to consistently wavedash, learning the sensitive timing of when to fast-fall an aerial, getting successful L-cancels, learning to consistently short hop with Fox, or even simply learning the pressure you need to put on the control stick to do an Up-tilt and not accidentally an Up-smash are all things that most of us now take for granted after years, but it's easy to forget how overwhelming and frustrating it was to learn to do them in the first place.

That said, it's an incredibly rewarding and satisfying game to play at a high level and once you get used to the incredibly fiddly control scheme, you'll find the game feels really tight and responsive.

thanks everyone for the warm welcome

my problem with the faq and supporting threads is that there arent specific input combinations or frame info along with the techniques (ive read "L-cancel" thirty times and its like wtf)

i have NEVER played this game before...im not even getting the disk until tomorrow lol

btw, a special thanks to those of you going through the effort of posting links for me to watch. while i havent looked any of them yet, i will soon

Nintendude1189 said:

Honestly, I think your best bet is to spend up to a week playing the single player modes and trying to unlock all of the characters. I think trying to jump head first into competitive SSBM without any sort of foundation in the game's basic mechanics would be overwhelming, and reckless perhaps. It'll be MUCH easier to learn the advanced techniques if you've at least seen the basic traits and moves of the cast and explore the game on your own for a little bit.

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Agreed.

I'm someone who has put manyhours into all smash games on a "casual" level, and trying to learn advanced techniques was incredibly difficult, and is still very difficult for me to implement when I actually play. I've been playing Melee competitively with friends for a while now and I still screw up on some technical/advanced stuff.

Couldn't imagine someone not even accustomed to the basics of smash trying it. This is all assuming OP has never played a smash game at all in any way.

Good luck though!

Atomi said:

thanks everyone for the warm welcome

my problem with the faq and supporting threads is that there arent specific input combinations or frame info along with the techniques (ive read "L-cancel" thirty times and its like wtf)

i have NEVER played this game before...im not even getting the disk until tomorrow lol

btw, a special thanks to those of you going through the effort of posting links for me to watch. while i havent looked any of them yet, i will soon

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Sure it's no problem, we're not like a high school who picks on the new or different kids. We welcome them, just don't start flame wars and you'll do fine. Also yea sorry that the FAQs and frame info wasn't clear for you, but glad we helped.

I dunno if the confusion or difficult understanding becomes a big problem with other future players, then maybe a general, but detailed and organized, website will make it easier to understand and get into. But that's only if I or we have time and it becomes a possible huge issue.

If it helps at all, you have to hit L 8 or less frames before hitting the ground with an aerial to L cancel it.

standardtoaster said:

If it helps at all, you have to hit L 8 or less frames before hitting the ground with an aerial to L cancel it.

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i thought it was 6.

Nintendude1189 said:

Honestly, I think your best bet is to spend up to a week playing the single player modes and trying to unlock all of the characters. I think trying to jump head first into competitive SSBM without any sort of foundation in the game's basic mechanics would be overwhelming, and reckless perhaps. It'll be MUCH easier to learn the advanced techniques if you've at least seen the basic traits and moves of the cast and explore the game on your own for a little bit.

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Just want to re-state this one. Having someone explain to you that to wavedash you want to jump than immediately airdash diagonally into the ground and your response be "how do I airdash?" would be a poor way to start things off.

One thing that I would add to that though is that there are a lot of little mechanical bad habits that people tend to pick up and then have to unlearn because they don't know any better. You, being completely new to this, can avoid having to unlearn some of these bad habits.

A few examples:

You can use up on the control stick, X, or Y to jump. Use Y. Once you start getting into more technical stuff jumping your finger from Y to B, for example, is waaay faster and easier than X to B, and shorthopping with the control stick is 23487924x harder than with either button. Also, use L to block and R to airdodge/wavedash (or vice versa) as it will makes things like wavedashing out of your shield and such considerably easier down the road.

On the subject of shorthopping, start trying to do this from the get-go. All it requires you to do is get your finger off of the jump button before the initial jump animation is done or fairly soon after it (someone with more in-depth frame data knowledge can tell you exactly when, but it's fairly quick). Different characters have an easier time of it than others due to length of jump animation - ganon is probably the easiest competitively viable character to do it with while fox, sheik, samus, and a few others are the hardest.

Get in the habit of C-Sticking your airials (A button moves in the air). Using the c-stick for them frees up the control stick for controlling your movement, allowing you to do things like jumping backwards while using your fair (forward airial aka forward and A in the air), dair without fastfalling, and other things of that nature.

The various "normal" options to get off the ledge range from decent (standing up and using a get-up attack) to horrible (jumping off of the edge by just pushing the jump button). The less intuitive, but generally better way to do it is to drop off of the edge with down or back and immediately double jump back to the stage. This lets you get off the edge with real moves instead of the highly punishable get-up attacks, and as you get more technical chops lets you do stuff like waveland onto the stage into a grab, roll, or other crazy stuff for more mixups. It's also just generally faster than any of the other options. (Note that this is not to say that just standing up or using a get-up attack is bad, just don't be reliant on them. The standard ledge jump is bad 99.999% of the time. Don't do it.)

Experiment with DI (directional influence) when you get hit, particularly by kill moves. Holding the stick perpendicular to the direction you're flying changes your trajectory. The easiest way to visualize what you should be shooting for is to recognize that the full stage (as in all the way to the blast zones) is a big rectangle, and the corners of said rectangle are the furthest distance you can travel before actually dying. So if it looks like you're going to die off the top, DI left or right. If you get hit out, DI up and towards the stage. Get good at this and it's not uncommon to live through kill moves at 120% and higher that would have otherwise killed you at 80%

(You can also use DI to escape combos and such, but figuring out the proper DI to escape some monstrous captain falcon combo of doom and destruction requires more game knowledge than you're probably going to have for a bit. Just know that DI'ing non-lethal moves is a pretty big deal too, and that usually the DI that moves you the furthest away from the guy hitting you or to the ground is the best (though not always).)

When you're returning to the stage after being knocked out, 90% of the time your goal should be to grab the edge of the stage, as it gives you a bit of invulnerability upon hitting it which can be used to get you safely onto the stage or allow you to counterattack through a lot of careless edgeguarding. You don't need to concern yourself with the second part as of yet, but get in the habit of recovering low and getting to the edge with the top part of your up-B (the last recovery option for most characters). Not overshooting it is important, as it is very easy to kill someone who's caught in the free-fall state you're stuck in after up-B'ing. Also, if you sweet spot the up-B the attacking part of the move will offer some modicum of protection getting to the edge, though this varies by character (Roy will plow through basically everything, while Ganon and Falcon are basically naked while up-B'ing).

There's lots of other stuff too obviously, but these are all things that I routinely find I have to work pretty hard to get people to learn and/or un-learn when I'm teaching them the ropes. You. however, have a unique opportunity to learn a lot of this stuff from the get-go, which I can only imagine will speed your development up tremendously.

Atomi said:

thanks everyone for the warm welcome

my problem with the faq and supporting threads is that there arent specific input combinations or frame info along with the techniques (ive read "L-cancel" thirty times and its like wtf)

i have NEVER played this game before...im not even getting the disk until tomorrow lol

btw, a special thanks to those of you going through the effort of posting links for me to watch. while i havent looked any of them yet, i will soon

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Here are some good resources if you see someone talking about something you don't understand:

The Smash Wiki
A list of commonly used terms and what they mean (along with a few other things) Edit: Just ignore any ruleset info or tier list, those are outdated

While I generally do not recommend GFAQs for smash related stuff, that is a decent resource that is easy to access. Other than that, just ask questions and try not to be overwhelmed by all the info. It really isn't that complex if you take it a bit at a time. Someone posted the youtube videos that are "advanced how to play." The are great watches after you sit down with the game and unlock some characters and feel good about the controls.

I second the notion of learning to jump with Y. Also you should introduce yourself to your regional area-- even if you don't enter tournaments immediately, playing friendlies (aka casuals, they are called friendlies in the world of smash) with people will help you learn quickly.

You may also want to look at the tier list to get a good idea of who you should play if you want to be somewhat successful in the long run. Of course, it's important to play who you find most enjoyable to play so that you can keep your attention on the game for as long as possible, but on the off chance that you want to try your hand at a tournament, getting help with the higher tier characters is usually easier since more people play them and you'll more easily find someone who can advise you. Here's the list: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294748 I would suggest using one of the top 11 (except jigglypuff, she's maximum homo and boring to play). Using more than one character is okay for now since you haven't even started playing the game much less began experimenting with advanced techniques, but try to narrow your preference to 1-3 for maximum success. I would add more but quite a bit has been covered and tbh I've never coached someone who wasn't familiar with the bare basics of the game. Like Nintendude said earlier, it's probably best that you play around with the game for awhile to learn how it operates rather than trying to jump into the competitive side of it. Especially since you're accustomed to traditional fighters, which this shares very little with.

I guess I can give a very, VERY basic intro though.
-The goal is to knock your opponent out of the boundaries to earn a kill (take a stock) and run your opponent to 0 stocks or to have the most stocks remaining when time runs out (this never really happens in competitive play though). Going off the bottom or sides causes an explosion while going off the top shows your character flying off into the distance (or sometimes hitting the camera, signifying a lost life. As your damage (the percent at the bottom) builds, the knockback (and hitstun) you take from attacks increases, meaning you'll fly further from hits. It's kinda the opposite of hitstun decay some traditional fighters have. Combos in the game often revolve around knowing your opponent's percent and reacting to where they fly when hit, and knowing when you'll be able to land a move that will send them off screen at kill percent.
-Left stick (control stick) moves you, and can jump. You can walk by lightly holding left/right, and dash by quickly tapping and then holding left/right. Movement is analog, not digital like other fighters, and this analog nature of the control stick is a huge reason for the complexity of smash. You can run at different speeds, walk at different speeds, move through the air at different speeds, and change direction at different speeds based on how much you have the stick tilted. You also use this stick to DI (directional influence, used to break out of combos) but that's too complicated for an introductory level.
-Y and X also make you jump. I suggest using Y only to jump. Characters can jump both on ground and in air. Full hopping is done by holding the button until you leave the ground, shorthopping is done by releasing the button before leaving the ground. You cannot control the height or an aerial jump (double jump), though. Some characters have multiple aerial jumps. You do not regain your aerial jumps until you return to the ground/platforms, or grab an edge- they are limited to a certain number (usually one) until this happens.
-Right stick (c-stick, the odd looking yellow one) does smash attacks in a direction on the ground, and aerials in a direction in the air. Also does thing in shield, see next paragraph.
-Shoulder buttons shield on the ground or airdodge in the air. The shoulder buttons are also analogue, like the control stick. Depending on how far you press down the shield, you'll do a shield of different density and size which affects how long it survives/how far you are pushed back from attacks. While in a shield, you can grab with A or Z, jump with Up/Y/X, rolling with a direction on either stick, or spot-dodge (side step) with down on either stick. Airdodge can be done in a direction by holding a direction on the control stick. Landing during this airdodge movement is the basis of wavedashing/wavelanding, as it gives you momentum that makes you slide along the ground.
-Z button grabs, or does aerial attacks (except for a few characters). After grabbing an opponent, you can pummel them for slight damage by pressing A, or you can throw them up/down/back/forward with the control stick or c-stick. Grabs beat shielding, and for many characters throws are an important way to begin combos or set up for kill moves.
-A button is basic melee attacks for all characters. Anything done with the A button and a direction is called a normal. On the ground, you have two types, smashes and tilts. Smashes (up, down, side) are done by mashing the stick once in a direction and pressing A at the same time. Tilts are done by lightly pressing in a direction (up, down, side). You also have a jab, which can be considered a kind of neutral tilt. While dashing/running, pressing A initiates a dash attack. At a low level, this is often used by itself as an approach. In the air, you've got 5 A attacks (aerials, often abbreviated [first letter of direction]-air). Foward air, back air, neutral air, down air, and up air. You can't turn around midair except with certain characters by jumping/using certain moves, so having a bair but no btilt or bsmash makes sense. Aerials can be L-canceled by pressing L/R/Z 6 frames before landing if the animation is still occurring.
-B (red button, you've probably seen) does special moves. Every character has four. Neutral B, pressing no direction on the control stick, and then one for each direction. Left/right are the same but facing different ways. They can be done in the air or on the ground, with some exceptions. Up special (and side special, for some characters) are often used following a jump to return to the stage once knocked off.
-The pad (d-pad) just does a taunt.

Unlike most fighters, smash doesn't have combos that are set in stone and initiated by series of directional inputs with a button or 3. It has a few that work like that, called natural combos, but they are simple and get you practically no where. Things like A, A, A cause jab combos, and some multi hit attacks naturally combo with multiple, repeating hitboxes, but generally every individual hit in a a reasonable long and effective combo will be one of the moves listed above.
While comboing is generally simpler than most other fighters, footsies and spacing is much, MUCH more complex, made so by the high degree of freedom in movement and by platforms.
Although frame data for moves and animations is helpful, it won't be at your level. Melee has a very well established metagame, so rather than explore options through analyzing frame data, you'll probably be better off just taking advice and feeling how the game works until you get to a high level.

Probably your best chance of improving quickly is to first learn the basics of the game like what I listed above. After that, if you were to record yourself playing, and post it to let us critique, you'd get the most informative help.

watch this set.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL042C1AD316A95F81

I've played melee for quite a while and I've also dabbled in super turbo and street fighter IV.

Like others have said, there are static combos in melee, everything is dynamic and can be influenced by Directional Influence from the opposing player. As such, combos in and of themselves sometimes require reads or reflex or both. Another strange thing about melee is that a lot of moves have some interesting hitbox properties so that a move can both hit soft and hard depending on how you use it. This adds a weird layer of depth since you think a move should kill but it doesn't but then again, you can use said move property to continue a combo.

Personally, I see Melee as a physics game. however, the physics involve punches, kicks, swords, projectiles, etc. Melee is a fighting game in those terms but cannot be compared to other fighters in any other way mainly because of the damage scaling system that affects knockback. As a physics game however, a billion emergent properties arise from its engine such as edge canceling, momentum, wavedashing, moonwalking, etc.

Another thing to note is that melee has no buffer. You're gonna have to know when a move begins and ends just based on feel or looking at the frame data. I'm going to guess you play on a stick...man it's gonna be tough for you with this game since gamecube controllers are absolutely essential to play (analogue and all).



The ability to read your opponent is important in any fighting game. In melee especially as opposed to brawl, it only takes 1 or 2 good reads to take off a stock off the opponent. This is because the punishment game in melee is huge which is conducive for yomi. The problem lies in the neutral position. In neutral position, the game allows you a vast amount of options, almost infinite. Therefore, the game just seems like a guessing game in terms of positioning. However, over time when you learn the matchup, you will realize what your opponent wants to do and what your opponent expects you to do. Being able to funnel your opponent's options into a few key plays (via positioning, fear of punishment, projectiles, etc) will allow that ever so sweet yomi read.

let say you have forced someone into shield. You have taken note that from shield, they have the tendency to jump out, wavedash back, or spot dodge. You have successfully funneled their options whether they know it or not. you call their jump by jumping with them and landing an aerial attack which knocks them off the level. This is the way I look at smash. There are so many things to do at any given situation but only some are viable, and your opponent might do even less than that. Be brave, yet smart and it will serve you well.

Hello Atomi! I am personally humbled by the fact that someone from the FGC has come here interested in Melee, it's an honor having you here. May I ask you, where are you from? Your gamertag means "atom" in Finnish so I'm wondering if you are Finnish yourself =) If you are, it would be awesome having you come to some smashfests and tournaments held here in Finland.

As for getting started, "Advanced How to Play" series is definitely recommended. Second thing I would recommend would just play the game's single mode trough to get all the characters so you get bit of feel with each character so see which one you like the most. Then you should start learning basic tech skill like dash dancing, spacing and l-canceling. It's great to have you here! =)

Oh, also I forgot to add in my last post atomi. If you're looking for complexity at a low, beginner level, where you'll be starting, don't. It isn't there. It isn't evident until you've gained months of skill and have decent players to play against. Even technical complexity won't arise until you've learned the basics and are ready to start practicing advanced gameplay.

Can't wait to see how this experiment goes.

I play SF4 also and feel like I should warn you.. in five months, you will probably still be awful and make much less progress than you would in SF4. Don't be discouraged though.. the dynamic nature of melee makes it so satisfying once you can do cool things because it's not just hitting the same input to do some combo over and over.

Also.. pick a character quickly and stick with it. Here's a brief rundown of their styles:
Fox: very tech heavy but can be played in many different ways. "spam attacks" is a possible style
Falco: similar to above, but he probably lends his projectile makes it easy for him to play defensive
Marth: defensive, easy kills once opponent is off stage
Peach/Puff: the game will be slower playing these characters. They focus more on spacing and other fundamentals, so if you aren't looking to "press buttons really ****in fast" they might be good, though one could make similar claims about Marth.
Ice Climbers: weird ****in character, maybe watch a video or two and decide if for some reason you want to play them.
Falcon: Very fast and combo heavy. You will rely heavily on movement and getting strong punishes.
Sheik: Also quite defensive, relies heavily on positioning because she is not as mobile as some other characters. Not quite sure what other simplistic statements to make here... she kills other characters at low % if she can get them off the stage.

You probably don't want to main a low tier character. It might be fun, but unless you are really good and dedicated, it usually gets frustrating once you play good players. Generally, playing a good character is more fun because you have more options and you don't get put in as many annoying situations.

standardtoaster said:

If it helps at all, you have to hit L 8 or less frames before hitting the ground with an aerial to L cancel it.

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You should also know that for L canceling you can also use the R or Z button and you should find whichever one you feel most comfortable with. The L in L cancel stands for lag not the button. Also to see and understand the use of L cancels you should use links down air. If you dont l cancel there is a lot of lag after he puts his sword into the ground and when you L cancel correctly it will be very noticeable.

Atomi said:

$30.00 for a gamecube and controller)

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Daaamn, you lucky son, a good Nintendo-brand controller costs over 20 dollar already.

Atomi said:

my basics are probably really basic lol, so...hey, im Atomi. where do i start?

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smash is like any other competitive system. you are only good in a relative sense that relies on other players performing worse than you. therefore, your goodness will always relate to your opponents. as with all competitive games, start here:

1. never lose to yourself.
2. never play thoughtlessly.
3. structure your learning capacity.

playing with defined intelligence is more valuable than anything specialized that this game has to offer. spend a large amount of time working with mindful interaction with the opponent before you worry about anything else. be critical of everything you read on this forum, misinformation is abundant here. finally, play with a character you like. you won't hit the human skill threshold for any character you pick in less than a year even if you really suck.

Jim Morrison said:

Daaamn, you lucky son, a good Nintendo-brand controller costs over 20 dollar already.

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Coming from sf he's probably used to paying up to a cool hunski for a functioning controller. Actually a really good arcade could cost nearly twice that at just under 2 hundred.