Guide NESSBOUNDER'S Nesstastic Ness Guide (PAL version.)

THIS NESS GUIDE CAN ALSO BE FOUND IN THE MELEE DISCUSSION ROOM. I WISH SOMEONE WOULD DELETE THE FIRST COPY FOR ME...BUT I'M TOO LAZY TO ASK!!!

(NESS) – You should be able to find him between Fox and the Ice Climbers. He sits there with his thumb in the air and grins stupidly. A lot of people think he sucks, simply because they can’t harness his potential. Why would you want to choose this creepy demon kid as your character?
Check below to see if Ness is for you.

a) If you don’t like floaty characters, then don’t even bother.
b) If you like characters with awesome recovery, then don’t bother.
c) If you instinctively hit down on the C-stick when your opponent is close, don’t bother.
d) If you can’t handle unusual second jumps, don’t bother.
e) If you love doing great huge amounts of damage all at once, ignore Ness and play as Gannondorf.

If you still think you want to try Ness, then you must be warned, he has a steep learning curve, but once you master him, he is lethal!

Strong points:

Awesome aerial game.
Great mind game.
Great edge guarding game.
Can take on higher tiers and still stand a chance.
Pretty heavy for his size.
KILLS fast fallers.
Groovy throws.
Alright range.
Nice wavedash.
Nice sidestep
Fast tilts.
PRIORITY
Nice shield
Quite fast. (Yes, I’m not joking.)
Good roll that you can actually use.
Very maneuverable.
*plus, he looks cool*

Weak points:

Recovery stinks.
Up and down smashes are non-existent.
Grab is one frame slower than most other characters (like that matters.)
Only average reaction time.

Therefore, Ness is a very solid and well-rounded character with over 100 tricks up his sleeve. He is a fighter Jet rather than a groundhog, and should usually be attacking from the air.

USING NESS:

Don’t listen to the trophy. Ness’s greatest weapon is NOT his mind, it’s his BIG HEAD!! Most of your combos will involve a PK headbutt (Up-air) or two. More on that later.
Anyway, Ness’s recovery SUCKS, so you don’t want to be sent flying too far. Ness is at his best when he’s playing mind games.
A run-in-and-attack strategy doesn’t usually work all that well. It’s best to let your opponent come to you, or try to fake them out.
Then there’s the short hop. Most of Ness’s best options are born from his short hop, so practice that. Also, wavedashing. I actually find that wavedashing is not as useful for Ness as with other characters, as you can usually get the same effect with a fox-trot away from you opponent. Ness rolls fast. Don’t be afraid to roll behind your opponent every now and again, but don’t abuse this. Ness can also make use of triangle Jumping, light shielding, L-cancel, swing jump, foot cancel and the DjC.
---------------------------------------===================================
On the OFFENSIVE:

All of Ness’s moves have a use. Here are how his more important moves should be used for attack.

PK SHOVE: (Front-air.) This is probably Ness’s most useful move. It does 15% damage if all the sparks hit, has awesome range and a disjointed hitbox. Shorthop to PK shove is a good starting move and creates combos. L-cancel this move before the last spark hits in and your opponent will be reeling for a grab, kick or other fast move. Another good way to use this is to swing jump into it. To do this, perform as second jump and use PK shove just before Ness is about to go up. You’ll be swung forward horizontally while doing the attack, and it makes a fantastic counter strike. (more on that later.) Doesn’t KO at any reasonable damage...BUT SO WHAT? THIS IS NESS'S BEST MOVE!! USE THIS LOTS!!! SPAM IT (intelligently) LIKE IT'S YUMMY!!

-FUN FACT: if you use this move DIRECTLY out of a short hop, you don't need to L-cancel it. Yay!

PK HEADBUTT: (up-air) Another very good move. The PK headbutt has deceptive range, awesome priority, does a nice 13% damage, and is quite fast. DjC this move and Ness now has a sort of up smash! Once your opponent is in the air, this is the move you should be using. It is the bane of fast fallers, as you can rack up scary amounts of damage simply by DjCing the move to repeatedly smack them around. Will KO Mario on around 130%. Spam this one too.

DROPKICK: (Back air) A pretty good move. The dropkick does 16% damage on the sweet spot, and 10% damage on the other spot. Hitting with the sweet spot will KO Mario at around 110%. This move doesn’t have the best range, though. But don’t be afraid to swing jump into it. It's also great to swing this out of a foxtrot or a wavedash to punish your opponen's miss.

STEP KICK: (Down air) A spike. Don’t use this move to attack your opponent from above directly, as it’s easily shield-grabbed, and very predictable. 12% damage. You can also aero-fake from above into this move very nicely. This move's hitbox stays out for a very long time, considering it's a spike, making it one of the best spikes in the game.

FLAIL: (neu-air) Flail is a rather overlooked move. It’s fast, doesn’t have all that much priority, and does about 11% damage on the sweet spot. However, the knockback of this move often will lead to a great opportunity for a PK headbutt or an aerial combo. Shorthop into this move or swing jump every now and again for a somewhat useful combo starter.
If you hit with the not-so-sweet spot, you can often L-cancel and shield grab your opponent. This move can also be used as an edge guard.

KIDDIE PUNCH: (neu-A,A,A) Not much to say about this one. 10% damage and very fast and annoying. Use if your opponent is up close to you. Can be comboed into a Bat sometimes.

SCHOOLBOY KICK: (Forward tilt) A good move. Fast, useful and has a lingering hit box, nice priority and can edge guard. Can be directed, and should be done so if your opponent is trying to short hop you or coming in from above. 10% damage.

PISTON KICK: (Down tilt) I love this move. It stuffs up so much stuff, and transforms would-be ground combos into mulch. Rapidly hit the A button to push you opponent away from you and quickly fox-trot, sidestep, shield or roll backwards before they can hit you. You can also roll behind your opponent while they’re doing an attack and pump this move into their ankles, or wavedash to it. How annoying. Does 3% damage for the first hit, and then gradually drops to 1% for each hit after much usage. Rather than fully crouching to use this move, try to hold the Controll stick only half the way down and then press A. Ness will use the move without crouching, making it even faster.

VOLLEYBALL: (Up tilt) Very fast, has silly priority, and decent range. Use this to prop your opponent up perfectly for a PK headbutt. Does about 9% damage. A good move.

BAT: (F-smash) Ooooh…the bat…Ness makes up for his lack of up and down smashes with this move. It has insane range and priority, does a whopping 24% damage if you hit with the very tip and is fast, can’t be shield grabbed and can be used to edgeguard nicely. Use it to finish combos against fast fallers as well.
It’s not even very obvious and very hard to punish, so you don’t need to worry about using it.
However, do not spam this move. KO’s Mario at around 85% damage with the tip if he doesn’t DI up. It’s the eighth most powerful horizontal smash in the game. (Just so you know.)
As an added bonus, the bat also reflects projectiles if you hit them just right! The projectile must hit Ness’s body as the bat comes out. I find it best to turn around so the move hits your back instead of being clash cancelled by the bat, but this is risky and only recommended if you are an absolute freak.

AROUND THE WORLD: (U-smash) No, don’t be mistaken, this is not a smash attack. Think of it as an extra up and forward tilt that exchanges speed for a disjointed hitbox.
There are two ways to use this move. One, on an opponent attacking from above, (then follow into an up tilt/PK headbutt) or to get an opponent in front of you over your head so you can hit them with a volleyball. Don’t try to charge it under them, because you’ll get bashed. Instead, charge it so the Yo-yo creeps forward and hits with the weak “charge) part of the move and then immediately release. It should hit twice and hoist your opponent over your head where you can either use volleyball of shield grab. Use jump-canceling to use this move as a running attack. Altogether, around the world does 10% damage at the most. (Unless your opponent is stupid and lets you charge it up under them.)

CAN BE USED TO DO THE AWESOME MEMORY LOOP/ YO-yo GLITCH!!! OMG, MORE ON THAT LATER!!!

WALK THE DOG: (D-smash) Another extra tilt. This should be used on opponents who land behind you for some reason, or you can turn around so your back is to your opponent and immediately use it for a "frontal" attack. It packs more punch than around the world, but you should NEVER try to charge this under your opponent because it doesn’t creep forward. Just hit with the sweet spot. 11% damage. If your opponent is right in front of you, do not use this move, expecting a quick get-away move that you can crouch cancel to. Use the piston kick instead.

SPARKLE RUSH: (running attack.) A very good move. It has incredible range and is practically a projectile. Don’t go thinking that your opponent will go flying along on a scary angle like the level nine computer player does. No, a human player will only do that if they smack DI to upwards as soon as the move hits. Instead, they will get juggled around for a lovely 12% damage and shot up into the air, all floaty and weird. (Quite often, they won’t be spinning at all, but simply “falling” upwards while looking around.)
This just screams for you to follow up with a PK thunder Fake out (more on that later!!)
You can also try and hit someone with the last spark for a similar effect, only they will be spinning this time.

PK FIRE: (Forward B) an EVIL projectile that is made for the sole purpose of annoyance. DO NOT SPAM THIS MOVE!!! It will get you blasted. Instead, be a sneaky little tool and use it as a fake out or and edge guard. (More on PK fire later.) If all flames hit, it does 15%, but most players will simply DI out of it. If this move hits, you should follow it up with a PK shove. Also, shoot someone who's recovering back to the stage and then wavedash off the edge and edgehog. Hee hee hee heeee...eeeevil...

PSI MAGNET: (down B) Not all that useful. Use only on camping Foxes who like to laser you, and on Marios and Dr. Marios, Zeldas who use Din’s fire, Pikachu, Pichu and Luigis. Everyone else will simply punish you for using this move, and even against these guys you should be careful.
Probably best to avoid this one, unless you're playing friendly fire team mode. $_$

PK THUNDER: (Up B) I like this move. No, not the bit where you hit yourself in the bum to become a dead person in the hands of a good edge guarder, but the little 8% damage mind bullet that comes out of your head. You can control this around like a guided missile and zap people! How cool is that?
Of course, you need to use this move sparingly and smartly in order for you not to get punished. And that is why I invented the PK thunder fake out. (Or perhaps I didn’t, but I’ve never seen anyone else do it before…)
You’ll learn how to do that later.
Now about recovery…almost any fool knows that you have to direct the zappy thing around to your behind and masochistically blast your anus, causing a propulsion. But this move is so easilly edge guarded against, that you’re better off using it only when you have no other option. This does 25% damage if it hits, but that will never, ever happen. Meh, Ness’s recovery is almost as bad as Falco’s…

PK FLASH: (B) Now this is fun. Hold down the B button and direct this move over to your foe and release once fully charged for a big PSI cluster bomb! YEEE-HAW!! However, it’s very slow and should only be used as an edge guard, or when you opponent is sleeping or groggy from a shield break. Unless you think you can use it to hit a falling opponent, but that’s just stupid. This move does 35% damage when fully charged, and is considered “fully charged” by the time it starts to descend. KO’s Mario at around 30%. Try using it directly after you've used a throw back and direct it behind you to try and blow up the recovering opponent. A good edge guarder if you've got good timing.

GRAB: (Z button or Shield + A) Ness’s grab is one frame slower than most other characters. It grabs at 8 frames as opposed to 7, but who cares? Ness has some of the most lethal throws in the game! Jump-cancel your grab from a run instead of using Ness’s horrible running grab. And only use his bashing attack (A when holding target) if your opponent is damaged beyond 10%. It does 3% for each headbutt.

ROTOR RODEO: (up throw) Does 10% damage and is good for a PK thunder fake out or aerial combo if you’re feeling daring. Against fast fallers, this move is a BANE!! After throwing a Fox/Falco/Falcon/Roy into the air, start using DjC'd PK headbutts IMMEDIATELY to make some fast-faller-FONDUE!

PSI ROCKIN A: (Forward throw) Throws opponent a set distance unless they’re on very high damage. Brilliant for edge guarding and setting up a spike. Does 10% damage.

PK PYRO: (Down throw) Combo move. Does about 8% damage and sends opponents flying away in a flaming arc. Combo to a shortopped PK headbutt, unless you think your opponent won’t DI away from you. In fact, this move doesn't really compo, it just props your opponent into a sticky situation. (In the air, on fire, and there is a NESS on the ground!!)

PSI ROCKIN B (back throw.) THIS IS THE MOST POWERFUL HORIZONTAL THROW IN THE GAME!! KO’s Mario on 85% near the edge of Final Destination. FROOOOT!!

When attacking, try to mix up your moves a bit. Ness’s only spammable move is probably his PK shove. So go sparingly on that as well.
--------=============-------------------------------------------------------------------
On the DEFENSIVE:

SHIELD: Ness’s shield covers his whole body. Be careful when shield grabbing, though, because his grab has limited range. Light shielding is useful if you’re on high damage and just want to get out of your opponent’s attacking range, because you’ll slide. Some good attacks from a shield are DjC'd PK headbutt and shorthopped flail.

RECOVERING FROM A LEDGE GRAB: Ness’s wonky jump means he can’t use an aerial attack from a ledge. It’s best to press R and roll away, then run. Or, if you're feeling lucky, drop down, jump, direct your jump away and around into a half-moon shape and use PK shove as you float back onto the stage.

FOX DODGING: easy. Simply fox trot away from your opponent as they attack you and try to parry with a bat or something.

DASH DANCING: Ness can grab from a dash dance or use a running attack. Highly recommended against Marth or Roy.

TRIANGLE JUMPING: Against Marth/Link/Roy and their blades, tri-jumping is one of Ness’s best weapons. Yes, this does work. Don’t argue with me about this, Kay?
Short hop at your opponent, and they’ll suspect a PK shove and try to tip you with their swords. Instead, triangle jump into them and grab, piston kick, anything that you can pull off while they’ve got lag. It’s probably best to shield if they used a fast attack, though.

ROLLING: don’t be afraid to roll, but don’t overdo it.

SIDESTEPPING: Ness has a good sidestep, but not as good as Fox’s. Keep this in mind, and try to sidestep just before your opponent attacks. You can then go into a piston kick, grab or kiddie punch, or even a volleyball.

WAVEDASHING: wavedashing should be used to get around if you want to go faster than running. Apart from that, it’s risky to wavedash grab or attack opponents unless you’re absolutely sure it will hit. Fox dodging is easier and altogether faster for evasion. Youc can wavedash into a piston kick, and sometimes it's good to wavedash so you can catch your opponent with an attack just as they almost land from a jump, or use it to quickly slide in and punish an attack you just evaded. Or if you want to be really tricky, wavedash back to avoid an attack, then quickly wavedash back in and grab/kick whatever.

COUNTERING WITH SWING JUMP: If you’re opponent has just sent you flying, don’t just fall on the ground and tech away, SWING JUMP RIGHT BACK AT THEM as soon as you can move and counterattack with a PK shove! This surprise tactic is VERY useful, and you should practice it on a Lvl 9 CPU. But beware that good human players will usually block this if they are still on the ground. It’s still a fantastic counter, though, and you can always L-cancel and go to a piston kick before they can shield-grab. This will eventually get your opponents freaked out if you use it well. Fly at their face and stick a hand-full of sparklies up ther nose-holes, YEAH, BABY, YEAH!

DI: Always DI up. Use crouch canceling if you want to, but mostly you should be DIing away and up, or out (?).

RECOVERY: Just try not to get hit out of your second jump, and always try to recover with an air dodge if you can.

FOOT CANCELLING: A technique that is useable by many characters, yet out of them all, is most useful to Ness, seeing as he can do it with ALL of his air moves. If you've been hit and are spinning, and you don't want to tech, simply use a dair just before you hit the ground. You should land in the beginning frames where Ness is lifting his leg, and it should cancel out all the lag and allow you to run or attack as soon as you hit the ground. Learn to do this instinctively. (Discovered by MasterOfFlames.) You can use his other airs too, but Dair is the best choice.

------------------------=============================-----------------------

Combos and Fake outs.

NOTE: Ness's "Comboes" are not really, well, comboes. But they serve the same purpose as in dealing lots of damage to a helpless opponent. They work because of Ness's priority, but if you do them in training mode, they won't register as a true combo.
===================
:Fakeouts:

PK FIRE FAKE OUT: this is a great mind game. In its most simple form, you just run up to your opponent, and just before you come within range of their attacks, use PK fire. This stops you in your tracks, and they’ll be too busy doing that move that was meant to hit you to stop the little spark that will burn them.
But that’s the most simple method. After you’ve knocked your opponent into the air, run towards them, and they’ll think you’re about to do a PK shove and they’ll attack. Instead of doing a PK shove, however, you’ve done a PK fire fakeout, and they’ll be hit just as they touch the ground.
There are other ways to use this technique. Experiment with it, but don’t abuse it, whatever you do!

PK THUNDER FAKE OUT: Just like the PK fire fakeout only vertical. Jump up to a falling opponent as if to hit them with a PK headbutt, but use PK thunder early. Their attack will whiff you and they’ll experience a sensation that is the psychic equivillant to a taser shock to the nuts! Then you have to fast fall and run for it. This is safer than just PK headbutting, but ends the juggle. So mix it up. You can do this out of a running jump to glide out or harm’s way, or into the path of your target.
Remember, this is best used as a follow-up from a normal PK headbutt. PK headbutt, fall, PK thunder fake. Easy as pie.

AERO FAKE: Not as easy to do. Do a PK thunder fakeout, except instead of doing a PK thunder, use a DJC’d PK Headbutt so it misses your opponent and your opponent misses you. Then fast fall to the ground and hit them with a real PK headbutt as they’re still suffering from jet lag.

AERO FAKE FROM ABOVE: quite good. just before being attacked by an opponent on the ground, jump to avoid thier attack (single high jump, not short jump). just before you reach the peak of your jump, use D-air (with C stick) and then fast fall as soon as you can towards your opponent. Awesome combo starter. If you do this right, you don't even need to L-cancel it, giving in no lag!

SHORT FAKE: shorthop at your opponent and hold backwards on the control stick. You should stop moving forwards and the opponent may whiff you. Then fast fall and go on to whatever. This works every now and again, but shouldn’t be abused.

:Combos:

PYRO SMACK: down throw to short-hopped PK headbutt. If your opponent DI’s away from you, do it anyway, but don’t use the PK headbutt until you’re almost touching the ground.
You will most likely trade blows. If your opponent is a fast faller, you can go straight from a throw to a bat, or a whole bunch of DJC’d PK headbutts. This is not guaranteed to work every time.

SHOCKER!!: bat/whatever to jumping PK shove, then swing jump under opponent and use a PK headbutt. If you use PK shove just after you’ve left the ground for a full forwards jump, it will be easier to hit with the last spark. This may not work against some characters, so you may want to do it differently: Shorthop to PK shove to DJC'd PK headbutt.

HOT N’ TINGLY: PK fire to PK shove.

TAZE AND MIX: shorthopped/swing jumped PK shove, L-cancel to whatever.

LOOPER: Around the world to volleyball. (on medium damage only.)

SCHOOLYARD BRAWL: A,A,A. Nothing special. Sometimes it's not even a combo, but what the hey.

PISTON PUMPAGE: rapid piston kick. (submitted by Silvenswordsmanx)

ULTRAFLAIL: short-hopped/normal/swing jumped flail to L-cancel to jumping flail.

TASERFLAIL: Flail to jumping PK shove. (Or flail to shocker!!)

CRISPY ANNOYANCE: Aptly named combo submitted by FangOfTheRabbit. PK fire, then while they're still burning, pull off a Shocker!!
=======================
EASTER EGGS

Poop! Right out of the Easter bunny's butt. Ness only has one notable easter egg and that is the legal glitch known as the Yo-yo glitch, or, as I like to call it, The Memory Loop

This trick can be reached through the humble Around The World U-smash yo-yo. And this is how it's done.

STEP 1: attack foe with yo-yo. Charge it.

STEP 2: As the 'strong' part of the yo-yo hits opponent, they will be flung into the air and away from your attack. Keep charging, and allow the yo-yo to creep forwards just a tiny bit.

STEP 3: before you start flashing, release the yo-yo. The looping part of the yo-yo will miss and it's hitbox will be dropped onto the ground. Anyone who walks into this will get hit.

NOW HERE'S THE COOL BIT, if Ness attacks while a hitbox is on the ground, it will fly across the stage to get to him, HITTING ANYONE IN THE WAY WITH THE ATTACK YOU JUST USED! This goes for grabs and anything other than projectiles. So it's a simple matter of remembring where you dropped that dirty little hitbox and getting your opponent between it and you. Master this move. It's awsm. (Thanks to dan smith and LonelyNess for figuring this out. You guys are watermelon deflectors.)

Whoops...too much Wario Ware...

Using the memory loop directly out of a shield will not work. HOWEVER, it is possible! Simply release the shield and then as Ness is doing the "putting away" animation, use and charge the yo-yo. (manual, not C-stick) The animation will be cancelled and the glitch will still occur! It's almost the same as a shield smash, just slightly slower.

(If you have more Ness combos, please tell me, and I’ll add them. You’ll get credit, of course.)
-------------------------------------------------------------==================
Edge-Guarding.

Ness edge-guards well using just his bat. However, if you want to go for a more advanced method of edge guarding, you can jump out and interrupt a second jump with flail, dropkick or even a step kick. If you don’t want to get off the ground, try and hit with a PK fire and get ready to use a schoolboy kick or a bat (or edgehog.) You can also edge-guard with PK flash if you have good timing, and if you’re a real risk taker, you can jump up, use a PK fire to strike from above and then double jump and air dodge to recover.
DO NOT use the piston kick to edge guard, or your Yo-yos. It just doesn’t work.
Against players like Mario or Marth who have predictable recovery patterns, try to shield grab their first recovery attempt, forward throw them, then wavedash to an edge hog. If you stop being invincible before they’ve used their up B, never fear. Just press R before they hit you. PK shove also makes a great interruption move, and in some cases is better than the flail.

I’ll do a section on strategies later.
If You disagree with something, please correct me, as this is my first guide and I may need some help!

CHARACTER STRATEGIES.

So just how is Ness supposed to face the other characters in the game? This section will tell you how Ness matches up against other characters, and how to fight back.

Key to difficulty ratings:
* = p*ss easy. You’ll wipe the floor with them.
** = no major threat, but watch out.
*** = a good match. This should be an entertaining fight.
**** = scary! (or very annoying…or both.)
***** = BEWARE!! PLATES ARE HOT!!!

We’ll start with-

MARIO: Difficulty rating: ***

Mario is a very solid and well-rounded character. He has only one weakness you can pick on, and that is RECOVERY!! While Mario’s recovery isn’t nearly as bad as Ness’s, it’s highly predictable and he’s very easy to edgeguard. You should be able to blast him into the sky with PK flash, spike him, bat him and flail out of his second jump him with ease. Things are different on the ground, however. Mario is fast, and quite annoying. This is not a character you should underestimate. A Mario player will be constantly in your face most of the time, attacking you in a psychotic plumber frenzy of kicks, smash attacks and fireballs. You should worry about his cape. This move can absolutely stuff up most of your projectile-based fake-outs, so be very careful when approaching Mario. Apart from his speed and ground game, if you get Mario into the air, there’s not all that much he can do to save himself from your deadly arsenal of aerial attacks, so as usual, an aerial assault is the way to go.

Dr. Mario: Difficulty Rating: ***

Just like Mario, except that his recovery is even worse and his F-air is definitely a danger to beware of. If he’s using the pillslide, then simply learn to hit him with your bat, and the pill at the same time. Using PSI Magnet on the pills restores a lot of health, but against a good Doc player, it’s useless, so learn to block them with your volleyball.

Luigi: ****

Luigi can also be treated like Mario…the thing is, his aerial game rivals yours, and he’s one cunning trick-artist. On the other hand, your projectile fake-outs will work on him, so use those. Don’t be scared of the wavedash. If you think you can, hit him with a piston pumpage combo every time he tries to wavegrab you. He’s also harder to edgeguard than Mario is, but not by much. Watch out for wavedash back and forth to Up B.

Bowser: *

I don’t need to say anything here. You should be able to take on Bowser with a giant sausage stuck up your left nose-hole and still win. Unless you come up against one the incredibly rare people who actually seem to be able to use him effectively. Don’t fall for his F-smash dodge.

Peach: ***** (AAAAhhh!!)

Now, Peach is one tough cookie for Ness to beat, mainly because she’s just so freakishly nasty when it comes to pressing an offensive. Be prepared to eat a few turnips, and definitely NEVER use the piston kick on her. She’ll trap you in her destructo dress! Peach has her Peach Bomber fakeout and her deadly turnip twithop (what I call it when you shorthop and use a projectile.) However, Ness is one of the very few characters who can actually use Peach’s turnips against her. Peach players capitalize on their opponents grabbing turnips. They then punish the lack of moves and restrictions that come with the turnip. Peach’s jump, aerial weight and speed are perfectly suited to the turnips, so she can use them effectively. However, Ness has a very similar jump to Peach, and several ways to counter her float cancelling. Say Peach throws a veggie at you. You should block the veggie with your f-tilt and jump up to catch it. Now you have a veggie, and Peach will go psycho.

What to do with Peach’s veggies.

1) throw them at her. Throw, and if she blocks, jump over her, grab turnip and throw down.
2) If she float cancels and grabs the turnip, shorthop to PK shove and go straight into a SHOCKER!! Combo.
3) If she dodges, whack her.

Apart from all that, Peach still can’t beat you in the air, and whenever she floats, she’s just setting herself up for a SHOCKER!! Combo. Beware Toad, beware destructo dress, counter her running shoves and zap her whenever she floats close to the ground. Do not be afraid to use Fake-outs on Peach, and remember that without a turnip, she’s got nothing to stop an aerial assault from below. PK flash for edgeguard is good.

Donkey Kong: **

DK shouldn’t be too much trouble. You can string combos together and fake him out with ease. Just watch out for his long slaps. He’s predictable and his recovery is very, VERY easily stomped on. A tactical approach is good here.

C. Falcon: ***

The pimp of Smash Bros wants to shine his nipple caps with your shirt. Unfortunately for him, Ness has no trouble taking him down a peg or two. Captain Falcon has got some very good tricks up his tight sleeve. Beware his knee combos and watch out for all of his Fakeouts. However, you shouldn’t have to worry about a thing, because if you get him in one grab, just one grab, you can land him with at least 40% damage. Grab, throw up, DJC’d PK headbutt to L-cancel to grab to DJC’d PK headbutt to DJC’d PK headbutt to up throw to dropkick is what you should be doing. Ness Beats Falcon in the air. And PK Flash obliterates his recovery.

Gannondorf: ***

Like Captain Falcon, except slower…and more dangerous…and you can’t combo him quite as well. What’s more, he’s got an aerial game that can stand up to yours. However, he’s a big target, and you can still combo him well. A word of advice, play defensive and mind games against this guy if you want to win.
Although he's not quite as comboable as C. Falcon, you can still play headball with Gannondorf at lower percentages.

Yoshi: ****

Yoshi is heavy, fast and very, VERY annoying. Be absolutely certain not to fall for his position-shifting attacks (F smash, Ground Pound etc.) Your fakeouts should be very effective here, and don't be scared to sit back and play defensive, Yoshi's projectile game is not so good. However, if you must shield his eggs, use a light shield. You can combo Yoshi quite effectively, so just be as tricky and as sneaky as you can, and try to match his mind games. On higher damages, you can cancel his recovery jump with a PK thunder. Beware of that egg lay attack, by the way, it has the potential to be super annoying.

I’ll do more later.

Hmm, nice coverage. I don't even think u missed one thing (being 50 paragraphs long that is) so u get a thumbs up from me.

It seems to be accepted that, for most characters, including Ness, Mario is not an easy edgeguard. I don't see how a PK pulse is inevitable when Mario can just cape it or sweetspot under it, depending on whence he comes. With caping/flagging ability, uair coverage, fireball harassment, a stalling/extending tornado, a good warp and a priority recovery attack... Mario's not exactly *easy* to edgeguard.

I can almost see how you could say you can "Fake DK out with ease" and that "he's predictable". I would like to believe that those words won't describe a human very accurately. It may be true that DK is predictable. When he's turned around you just might brace for a bair..

I think Peach deserves a *****. You can't exactly create an anti-turnip method. Peach has so many ways to use them and fake out with them that you really shouldn't be able to come up with a turnip panacea against a human. Turnips are invariably problems.. But you can pressure her.
Ness may be able to shut down a ground-float approach with his fB, but Peach doesn't need to start her approach in range. Any character can do *something* about Peach's float canceled aerials; I don't see how Ness can shut them down terribly well; when fair clanks, Ness loses. And typically she will not approach in bat/fB/DJC range. You can try stuff like foxtrot away to JCed YoYo to bair or sex-bair, but float cancels are fast and upsmashes aren't, and when she mixes it up with turnips, DJCs, and other mind games it just gets harder and harder to break her game.
Peach can break lots of combos. Ness probably won't; if he does manage to get something, clanking = losing.
What exactly can Ness do when he is in close combat with her anyway?
Slightly whiffed DJCed aerials may get you dressed. Actually, it can get you very dressed, and I'm not sure if you actually have to whiff at all.
Peach is very difficult to edgeguard. Ness... Isn't... And Peach certainly can do it. It's easier for Peach to nail a grab than it is for Ness. If both players DI, Ness is still more likely the one to die early..
Ideally Ness would have some vertkill move. Probability of vertical KO without a real upsmash for Ness.. pretty low.

Maybe I just speak out of frustration. My opinion Peach is a lot harder than Ganondorf. Ganondorf seems pretty vulnerable to DJCed airs (And at lower %'s he gets hit in just the right spot for another bair); I think it has something to do with that height adjustment you get when you're attacking. Dorf doesn't have a projectile game like Peach does. Dorf is quite edgeguardable; that means you can actually kill him with bairs and throws and edgeguarding. Dorf is comboable and can't break out with DI and sex as easily as Peach. Ness's speed is somewhat of an advantage here.
Overall it seems Ganondorf is more penetrable and mortal than Peach is to Ness's arsenal. I'd probably give him a four, buuut...
If you give Ganondorf a four, give Peach a five

EDIT: Just in case you're wondering... I actually did write "I think Peach deserves a [insert five asterisks]"

Yeah, I understand what you mean about Peach...but for one thing, Ness's F air doesn't...well...clank. Its disjointed, energy-based hitbox goes right through Peach's bum/arm/legs and there's really nothing in the air that she's got to outprioritise it. Her F air may trade blows if she's lucky, but that move is so slow...

I suppose my veiws on Peach's turnips are kind of biased. Firstly, I'm an avid Peach player, soi I'm very familliar with most of her turnip tricks and...yeah, I know how to get around them and how she uses them. And it doesn't matter where Peach starts her floating from, weather it be right up close or from the other side of the level, she's still got to come close in order to attack you, and Ness's shorthopped PK shove takes care of her every advance. You also shouldn't use that Yo-yo thing. A foxtrot ot a swing-B air is much more effective. And no, it's not possible to come up with an anti-turnip strategy, but there is a certain playing style with Ness that helps a lot. I'll do a section on playing styles later.

Ground combat wise, Most of Peach's ground combat moves don't cover much ground (exception for running attack.) Not many of her ground tactics can really own Ness and his shorthopped PK shove. And her attacks lack range, with the golf club being her farthest reaching disjointed hitbox that's not a turnip. In fact, simply shorthopping backwards when Peach comes within attacking range can really get annoying for the Peach player. And then you have all your projectile fakeouts and your neutral air blocks her turnips.

But I agree. Peach should be a five star. I'll change that.

Now for Mario...his recovery IS predictable. Weather he capes PK flash or not doesn't matter. If you position the move just right, you're going to force him to cape that move out of the middle of a jump, therefore wasting his cape lift and half of his jump. If he goes under it, he's going to go quite far under the level, making it hard for him to recover. Ness's spike outprioritises Mario's up B, so does his F-tilt and flail also outprioritises it...I don't understand that move...it goes through Fox's F-smash and yet Ness can outpriotitise it with his F-tilt.
Ness's spike also goes through Mario's U air, and if you wait for him to make a recovery, knock him back with Ness's f filt and then edgehog, Mario won't make it back.

Donkey Kong is predictable. His moves aren't fast and they're laggy. I'm not talking about computer players here, A freind of mine plays DK as his major character and he's not bad. I know what to expect from that monkey and he's no threat to Ness.

NESSBOUNDER:
Ness's F air doesn't...well...clank.
---
I think my problem was I kept getting hit with a dash attack, ftilt or fsmash while only getting a spark in on Peach. 'course I was spamming it like candy so I suppose the timing's gotta' happen sometime.

"Ness's shorthopped PK shove takes care of her every advance."
---
That's the thing.. It feels like Ness relies on his shove so much in this matchup. You can't *always* depend on it. Thankfully it'll beat just about everything she's got.. Still doesn't feel like enough to win.


You also shouldn't use that Yo-yo thing.
---
I like the Yo-Yo and it works into the mind games I like to use. I also like hitting nairs, uairs and bairs after it. The shove gets so monotonous. ;_;
I'm more accustomed to swing jump bairs, but when I start losing on priority or range with them and sometimes eating sets of her attacks for it... I just kind of like fitting my detached hitbox in and pretending I have some kind of range advantage. v.v;
... Foxtrot to bat's pretty cool if the space is right. 'slike y'barely move, though.

I'll do a section on playing styles later.
---
Nifty

Donkey Kong is predictable.
---
Ok, fair enough. Naturally being such a low tier he doesn't have a grand arsenal of effective mixups so he would lend himself to predictability. Just didn't want'cha' hurting some DK-player's feelings. :: pictures DK Gorrilla-punching Ness, then shrugging as if to ask "See that one coming, slugger?"::
DK really shouldn't be trouble for Ness, though, as long as you avoid the grab. I would never think you'd talk about AI.

On Mario... I always thought that a well-placed fireball would stop PK flash.
If it comes down to Mario needing his upB, then it should be over. If he can make it back on tornado, flagging and double jump, though... So I s'pose it could be hard or easy depending on his DI and damage.

EDIT:
And I completely forgot to add... A very well done guide. It does a good job placing the emphasis on what will emphasize Ness's strengths in a matchup.

I also want to know your opinions on some good teammates for Ness... But that might as well be another thread.

You're right. A Ness shouldn't rely too much on the shove. I was just using that as an example, but there are things Ness can to to fight Peach on the ground. Yep. She definately is five-star. Thanks.

Also, I WILL be doing a section of teammates/support characters for Ness...lucky you. (Freindly Fire on and off.)

And about the yo-yo...I just find that using it after a wavedash/foxtrot is too slow and easy to see. It's great for just hitting a person coming down from above and then going into a PK headbutt or Drop Kick. But I should give your little move a try. Hmmm...

A Good DK player is a capable opponent. And I respect the character's potential.But I hate monkeys...

I went back and changed some of Ness's moves, comboes and stuff. You may want to read the changes, but there's nothing revolutionary. I'll get to work on the other character strategies, Playing styles and Team strats in that order.

My friend idolizes Ness because he loves Earthbound to death. He's never given up on him, and I would assume he's been given new hope with your guide. I myself must say that it's very well written, and I'm actually picking up ness now!

Anyway, my main is puff and my friend is constantly cursing her existance. But since I'm constantly getting annoyed myself by Ness, perhaps I could give a bit of insight.

PK shove outprioritizes everything puff can do in the air, pure and simple. And as we all know, puff's game is in the air. The bair, PK backdrop I think you called it, can KO a puff at extremely low damages due to her weight, so that move tends to be extremely dangerous. Ness's edge guarding is futile against a puff, and Ness has literally no chance of recovering from puff's edge guarding. PK headbutt is also a great move to land, as it packs a pretty powerful punch against her light weight. Overall, Ness's air game seems to be equal in power to puff's, but Ness can't manuver as well in the air. It's difficult for a puff to get started on Ness, but once she does ness can be comboed pretty easily. I'm not sure what your strategy is, but that's just my two cents.

Thanks for making a Ness guide. This helps a lot. A good tactic on yoshi is when he is in his second jump...PK Thunder him and he falls to his doom.

Falco: ***

I’ve heard all sorts of things about Falco being able to spike Ness all over the place like a bushel of rotten mackerel.
I don’t doubt this, it’s just that I don’t see it as a reason that Falco should pose any major threat to Ness. Recovery-wise, Ness can easily recover from under the level and air dodge up onto the ledge the minute Falco decides to hop into a spike.
First of all, a jump is all it takes to avoid those predictable-but-annoying twit/laser hops of his. And after you’ve jumped them, Falco really doesn’t have anything he can do to outrange Ness’s PK shove on the ground or in the air. You might like to try an aero fake from above after a successful laser dodge just to be on the safe side and set up for some combos, which leads me to another factor that makes Ness stand a chance against Falco….Falco is a fast faller. (insert cheesy B-grade scream.) Yeah…60% damage combos galore here. Ness’s up throw to DJC’d PK headbutt to grab to throw to blah blah blah really badly hurts Falco. Ness also obliterates Falco’s recovery with his F tilt taking care of Falco’s primary recovery attack (Falco phantasm.) and his flail/Dropkick/step kick/PK Flash taking care of his other option. Falco’s reflector doesn’t seem to have as much range as Fox’s does, and that’s possibly because Falco has better traction. Falco’s reflector combos can be dangerous, but DI will prevent any major combos from happening. The best a Falco can do against a DI ing Ness is reflector to Bair. Talking about range, Falco’s ground assaults beats yours in terms of range. You should play the dodging boy against a Falco at first, jumping backwards and triangle jumping in order to get a good hit at him. His F-smash is easily sheild grabbed/dash danced to.
Falco walks faster than you can run (I think…) so if you want to retreat, shorthops backwards while constantly using PK shove in his direction will keep the speedy Falco out of your face. Your dodge and counter attacks should serve you well here.

Fox: ***

Despite Ness and Fox being great friends, (And sharing lunch when the need arises), they also make excellent enemies. A tag team of Ness/Fox is something to fear, yet both characters pretty much exist to destroy one another. Fox is number two in my favorite foursome of smashers (which consists of Ness, Fox, J-puff and Mr. Game and Watch.) and against most characters he’s an absolute wrecking ball. He would own Ness to the point of No Return if it wasn’t for his falling speed and recovery.
Ness and Fox turn out to be pretty evenly matched. Fox owns Ness on the ground, Ness owns Fox in the air. Ness’s mind games rock Fox, Fox’s infinite shine rocks Ness. Fox beats Ness’s recovery, Ness beats Fox’s recovery. Ness has 60% damage combo, Fox has up smash and shine spike. Fox can’t blaster spam Ness without hopping, Ness can’t annoy Fox in the air with PK thunder…the list goes on. Overall, they are evenly matched. Fox’s speed is matched by Ness’s priority and their mobility is about even as well, with Ness sacrificing some speed for better handling. I find Fox rather like a very fast sports car. Flashy and quick, but steering is kind of difficult. Ness is a bit more of a bomb, but you’re less likely to fly off the road and burst into flames. Now onto the strategies.
Do everything you can to grab Fox early in the game and execute your killer combo on him. You can use similar tactics to Falco when fighting Fox, but remember that Fox’s up smash is much more powerful, so you don’t want to be shorthopping TOO much. If he runs away and starts laser spamming you, it goes without saying that you should either put up PSI Magnet or duck. Your dodge attacks, counters and fake outs will work on Fox. If he catches you in an infinite shine, try to Crouch cancel it and use the piston kick. Most Fox players can’t do the infinite shine infinitely unless they’ve got you up against a wall, in which case you’re screwed. Don’t use single DJC’d PK headbutts, his speed will punish you for it. Instead, stick with the PK shove.
If you can get Fox over the level with a forward throw, then you know you’ve just beaten him. Watch for his recovery. If he uses a Fox illusion, simply do a low f-tilt or a shorthopped flail and watch him lose. If he tries to do a Fire fox, then just jump over him and use a step kick. Even if you hit him when he’s rocketing forward you’ll still take priority. You can also use PK flash on a Fox who’s been hit too far out for his illusion to work and tries his up b instead.
Earlier on in the match, you can crouch-cancel Fox’s shorthopped nairs and hit him before he can L-cancel and shine you. When you’re at a higher percentage, just foxtrot away and use a DJC’d anything, he’ll probably miss you and then get hit. If you’re recovering and he’s obviously going to shine spike you, then you can air dodge or quickly use a move to try and shake him off. A good Fox will shine you right as you start your jump, so you can’t attack him because your DJC will make you fall. To avoid this, jump without DI straight up when you’re out of his jumping reach and then float in towards the level. When you see him jumping out, dodge away and grab the ledge. If you’re too far out to do this, then just jump as quickly as you can and try to make a high recovery, even if it means using PK butt-blast.
If Fox grabs you and throws you forward at low damage, hit him quickly or just tech out of there. He’ll try to hit you with his tail or running attack. If he throws you upwards you can expect a U air, so try to DI up and out to the side while hitting A as fast as you can. If he throws you downwards, then hold R and left or right with the control stick the moment before he finishes blasting you to tech out of it. If you’re facing a drill-kick hungry Fox, then wavedashing will help you.

Ness mirror match: ***

Well…you should know your own strengths and weaknesses…go and exploit them!

Ice Climbers: ***

Ooooooohh…have you ever seen the Ice Climbers played by a master? Scary, very scary. It’s a good thing that in the PAL version of the game, their freezing glitch doesn’t work! Being hit by these guys when they’re together will deal you awe-inspiring damage, and they’re not slow, either. Getting grabbed by them is even worse, argh!
However, once separated, the Ice climbers are a piece of cake, and Ness just happens to be very good at taking them apart.
This lies with his fakeouts. The Ice Climbers really don’t have ANY spammable projectiles and they lack any good attacks with range. Your Aero Fake from above and PK Fire fake do an excellent job of breaking the ice. Once they’re de-synced, proceed to attack the stupid computer player with a fully-fledged aerial assault. The human player will rush after you to try and get his/her CPU partner back, but all you have to do is avoid, which against a single Ice-climber is not a hard thing to do. Once you’ve got the CPU even slightly off the stage, turn around and attack the human player with PK shove, bat, anything. And as the CPU runs back to the player, just drill it with a dropkick and try to keep them apart until you can KO the CPU. After that, a lone Ice Climber shouldn’t pose much of a threat to you at all.
I would have rated them higher, but Ness has the mobility and tricks to separate the Ice Climbers with relative ease. The Ice Climber’s main weakness is that stupid CPU, which allows you to beat it around like a hackeysack and rarely attacks on its own, ESPECIALLY in the air. Some things you should be wary of when they’re together: never attack the IC’s obviously from above. Their Belay attack has ultimate priority and you’re attack will lose. Also, if you see the Ice climbers sidestep when they’re not even within attacking range, you know they’re going to do the ice trap technique (sidestep/roll to blizzard or ice shot) and are planning to grab you. Take this time to either get away from them or attack them from above. The human player may jump into the air and try to disrupt you with his Uair, but you can probably triangle jump behind them both, grab the CPU, throw it against him and go for an offensive. Imagination is the key to beating the Ice Climbers…that and picking on the CPU.

Kirby: ***

Kirby’s titls are really great. They have range, speed…uh…priority. The only thing they lack is power. He’s fast, too, but as usual, he lacks the aerial advantage when fighting you. However, those tilts of his sometimes will even go through your PK shove. Kirby actually doesn’t have many options when fighting Ness. More often than not, a Kirby has to play offensive and advance with tilts and grabs and stuff. Again, your mindgames rule supreme here. That is not the case, however, once Kirby gets you off the edge. Kirby is the spike KING. His Dair alone will send you drilling into the pits of Heck with a capital H. He’s also very hard to edgeguard.
But your KO’s should mainly be star Kos. It goes without saying that Kirby is really light…*COUGH* your back throw *HACK* so…yeah. Mindgames and stuff! Lots of dash dancing and fakeouts and tra-la-la. Have fun.

Samus: ****

Projectile happy space Ninja anybody? Samus is extremely tough on the ground, and pretty formidable in the air. Her range is amazing, she’s got speed and priority to boot and her recovery’s great. Your strategy here should be much like you would normally do against a tough foe. Extreme caution must be taken to stay JUST out of her close attacking range. You should do a lot of dodging and faking, and once you get her in the air, it’s time to mix some PK thunders in with your aerials. Samus’s floatyness makes her somewhat easier to juggle or annoy with PK thunder. Plain old aero fake should work well, as she’ll try to spike you or hit you with a fast-falled Nair. Try to attack Samus with lots of aerial attacks from above and don’t be afraid to use your bat and the yo-yos. If she’s projectile spamming you, just sit back and block the weak missiles with your f-tilt. If she fires a hard missile, jump it or duck it or put up a light shield. If Samus goes for a missile-cancel and runs at you with her missile in front of her, use PK fire when they come in range. If she jumps to avoid the fire, you should have time to recover from PK fire’s lag and counter with U tilt. If she missile cancels a hard missile, then YOU should jump…but not over it, go backwards instead, wait for missile to pass under you and swing jump to PK shove. If Samus is using her bombs to annoy you, shoot them with a PK fire and then stand in the flames while observing Samus, and decide what your next move will be. If she’s got a charge blast ready (and most Samus players won’t fully charge it.) then don’t you even dare try to predict when she’ll use it so you can absorb it. You can be pretty sure she won’t fire it on the ground unless a missile is in play, or she’s just kicked/hit you. In the air, though. She’ll fire it quite openly, and often at close range. When you know Samus has a charge shot, jump ALL missiles and stay high in the air, and evade her attacks while keeping a close eye on Samus’s animations. Every now and again, you can swing jump in and use something, but always be cautious and don’t try any combos. If you see her doing the blast animation, IMMEDIATELY press R and up/down if you’re in the air, no matter where you are. Samus can be edgeguarded in an odd way. Your flail works, but her bomb hops will still allow her to use her grappling beam under the stage. Rather, you should shoot her with PK fire and edgehog. A recovering Samus will probably fire off a missile at you to give you something to think about while they recover. Jump over this missile while facing away from your opponent and fast fall to edgehog. The second she starts to pull herself up, drop from the edge and use a flail to hit her away, then recover yourself before you get any lower.

Zelda: ***

Zelda almost matches you in the air. Expect her lightning kicks and other awesome aerial attacks, but unlike most characters, she loses to you on the ground. How odd. She can’t use din’s fire on you because of PSI magnet. Yay. If she hits you with her F smash, smack to DI away from the blast and hopefully you’ll avoid the big spark. Oh, and she’s kind of slow. Use this to your advantage.

Sheik: ***** (how unexpected!)

Aaahh…Smash Bros’s Bogeyman…er…girl. Fear the Sheik, you’d be stupid not to. She’s got medium weight and strangely average reactions, which actually makes it easy for you to pull your damaging SHOCKER!! combo off on her. Apart from that, though, Sheik kicks your butt with her speed, priority and NEEDLES!!! A good Sheik will know how defenseless you are against the needles and will be constantly throwing them. To avoid needles, simply do a lot of jumping and swing jumping and such. Against Sheik, you should almost NEVER be on the ground. In the PAL version, she can’t chain throw you, but that’s not the problem. The problem is that she’s got a way round everything YOU’VE got! As I stated before, Never be on the ground against Sheik unless A) you’re doing a fakeout B) you’ve just landed from a shorthop and are preparing to do another shorthop or jump C) she’s in the air.
Sheik’s nasty aerial slap can’t outrange your PK shove. If you do get hit by this move, try to DI as high as you can and hope you don’t fly too far off the level. Oh, and attacking Sheik from above is a no-no. Sometimes her F-tilt can trade hits with your PK shove, so shorthop fakes are recommended. You should use every mindgame at your disposal here, and try to be as unpredictable as possible. One thing about Sheik that you can pick on is her recovery. Just hit her out a bit, and if she’s close enough to make it back on the stage with her up B, then grab her and throw her off again. If she’s a bit far out for that, then you should edgehog. Simple as that. If she turns into Zelda and teleports then you should be all over her and try to damage her as much as possible while you can.

Link: ***

He’s sloooowww….and Projectile spaaaaaaming….and he’s got a swoooooord….you need to use your faaaaaaakeoooooouts….loooots of Faaaaaakoooooouuuuts…

And mind games. Because Link has a sword, he’s dangerous to approach in a direct aerial assault. However, he’s slow! You can afford to attack him on the ground. Dash dancing and wavedashes are also good against Link. Because of his perfect traction, you can get a lot of hits in on him with your piston kick.
There are a few things you need to be wary of when facing Link. One, his bombs. The bombs can be treated much like Peach’s turnips, except you can’t block them with your f tilt. When Link has a bomb, it’s best to watch what he’s going to do with it. If he hops and throws it, you can suspect that he’s trying to grab you. If he shorthops backwards and drops it on the ground, he’s trying to set you up for a trap. Most of the time, you should just avoid Link and the bomb and wait for it to explode. He’ll throw it before then.
Secondly, his spin attack. You *should* be able to see this coming, but it is fast, and Link does use it out of his sheild. You should try to trick him into using it on the ground and then attack him from above with the step kick and go into dropkick or some other nasty combo.
Last of all is the hookshot. Get into the habit of predicting when Link will use this. It’s much faster than Samus’s grappling beam, but if you sidestep it, you’ve got the perfect chance to punish Link. Oh, and it makes a good projectile in the air.
Recovery-wise you can treat Link much like a Samus who falls like a spud. He’ll more than likely throw a bomb at you when recovering. A good Link player won’t use the spin attack for direct recovery.

I’ll finish this later.

Very nice guide! I am a Fox player, but I want Ness as my secondary. I will try out the tips but I need a strategy against Marth...

Hey nice guide man. Ness is always a good choice for me. I would'nt play him competitively, but this stuff is good to know.

Nice job.

I think you're vastly underestimating the back air/dropkick. I think you're accurate with your combos, but I use the dropkick way more than headbutt, especially after a short hop out of a shield.

You can't really compare his bair to his uair, they are used in totally different situations.

The uair is obviously used more often when your opponent is above you...

The bair is used more often shorthopping into it or when your enemy is behind you...

When my opponent is above me, I often make an effort to jump beside him and use the back air. Of course, I use the up air often, but the back kick is way more powerful.

The Uair has decent power also, and good priority. Tha Bair is more risky, you have to get right on side of your opponent, and against faster opponents, they will attack first, and send you flying.

Hey Nessbounder! I´ve reading your posts(Since you mostly play the same charasters as I do) for quite a long time and just recently started writing instead of only reading these posts.
Your guide has helped me quite much on some tricky parts, like fox-trotting and banging with his 2ndJumpCanceled head.

There are some things though, that I would like you to think over. You seem to dislike his PK blast although it has some nice uses.
1: If you try to PK thunder an opponent above and you miss, you should guide the thunder to shoot Ness straight downward, so he won´t have lag time from the PK thunder. This trick is very easy in rainbow cruise, where you can also shoot Ness in ship´s door.
2: You´ve KO´d your enemy. Do the following: Use pk thunder, guide the thunder to Ness´s enormous head. When your enemy gets off the plate, (s)he´s invincible for a while and because ness is on the ground, he can roll to safer side of the enemy or just stand up. If your enemy is not invincible you can also try to attack it.(this is usually from other situations than dodging the opponent who came from the plate)

Again: great guide! Thanks a lot for doing it!

I'm a veteran smasher, but I haven't really played much out of my own small circle of veteran smashers, and when we do, they're usually such elementary players that it's no challenge at all. But what I'm getting at here is that because I only play with a small group of people, I don't have as much experience with ultra-high-level play. I'm a Ness player, and I'd say I'm rather good at the game in general, but there are a few things I'd like to ask.

Reading this guide, it would seem that the "swing jump" and the "DJC" are pretty much the same thing. What's the difference between the two, and when should I use one instead of the other?

You also suggest "dash dancing" as a strategy against certain characters. From my experience, dash dancing is a completely useless novelty that can't really help you out in play. If you say it's useful, then I'm definately missing something.

Could someone please clear these points up for me?

And by the way, this guide is fantastic. I was going to write a FAQ on Ness for GameFaqs because all the ones they have there are terrible, but after seeing this, there's nothing I could write to outdo it. Would you consider posting this on GameFaqs? There are many people there who would be very appreciative of such an in-depth Ness analysis.

I've been using DJC-ed headbutts, dropkicks and PK shoves for a long time now, but I can't seem to get the hang of the "Swing Jump". From the reading it would appear that it's nothing more than a DJC-ed fair from a shorthop. Is this something that works only in the PAL version?

hey there is an edit button. So dont double post plz.

Ive also wondered the same things. Theses guides help out lots.

from my understanding, DJC´s and swingjumps are pretty much the same. Although I wouldn´t call a grounded PK headbutt (two jumps chained together as close to ground as possible and a Uair to that) a swingjump, because it doesn´t, well "swing" anywhere (unless you make it swing to left or right).

The giude is descrptive glorious. Ill start by sauing that. Next ill address the issue that you have posted on a marth beating strategy yet, that would be really appreciated. Also did you talk about using the pk shove to jump out and hit an opponent returning to the stage. I use that a lot and it works pretty well, and it's pretty funny too because it puts just to far away from the edge to return. uh, yea thats all i had to say. yea, thats it.

bump for the great Ness guide!
Oh I use that Pk shove to edgeguard too, mostly when I´m scared that my opponents some attack (Marth´s Fair or OverB) outranges my bair. If the recovering guy gets too close to grab the edge even if theyre shoved then do another shove with C-stick while doing your 2nd jump (and follow up) or If you´re a maniac like me then do a step kick so you hit the edge and you get back to stage. I once made a really cool KO this way! I had to pose and hit my elbow in my chair.
It´s a week since then and it still hurts the elbow

Thanks

I'm just pickin up Ness and this helps a lot because AmazinFlyinLuigi(my brother) keeps schoolin me.

thanks

This is a great guide.

I've always used ness and now I'll be able to pull off some pretty awesome moves/combos thanks to you.

I really appreciate all the time that you put into this guide, thank you.

I'm back! Here's the rest of the character strats. I've also gone back and tweaked some of Ness's special tactics. Go and have a look at the NEW aerial fake from above, it's much, MUCH better


Young Link: **

Yeah, he's fast, but so what? His attacks are not all that fast, he doesn't have very good range with that little sword of his...you can match his range with your f-tilt most of the time. The only thing you need to worry about are his projectiles, but even these can be worked around. Just use your imagination, while at the same time watch out for his Dair. That's all.


Pichu: *

KKKKKNNN!!! (that's the noise you make when your opponent chooses Pichu as their character and you snort Coke out your nose with stifled laughter.)

Pikachu: **

Pikachu is pretty good when the player knows how to use him. He can't spam his projectile without you absorbing it, and he's not as fast as you. (YEAH! HE'S NOT!) There's just something weird about Pikachu's moves that makes him feel strange to play as. For some reason, he's not as maneuverable as you'd think.
Besides that, Pikachu has an array of weapons that you need to look out for. One is his up smash. It's slower than Fox's and more powerful. When shorthopping at Pika, beware of this move. Secondly is Thunder. Sometimes, you come across a smart Pikachu player who will predict when you're going to use PK shove and use thunder just before you hit. You'll be struck by the pillar of electricity as Pikachu flies away from your attack. Some Pikachu's will jump over their targets and skillfully drop a thunder on them. This is easily dodged, but as Ness, you should absorb it with your magnet. Third is his back throw. This throws you a long distance, often off the side of the stage where Pika can hit you with his tail spike. If you do get thrown, wait until he jumps off the stage and try to get behind him. If you're lucky, the tail will knock you upwards instead of on a downward slope. Oh yeah, and Pikachu sucks in the air. Gee, that's unfortunate.

Another thing, try not to let Pikachu edge guard you. The rodent is very good at that. On the ground, Pikachu has longer range than you, but lacks priority and power and his F-smash is slow, slow, slow. Do a lot of side stepping.

Jigglypuff: ***

Jiggles has her Wall of Pain for you to be wary of, she almost matches you in the air, but your attacks just have a little bit more oomph to them. Beware of her nasty combo that can KO you on 15% damage! (Shuffled f tilt, rest.) Aside from that, you outclass her with power, range and priority on the ground. Her grab has excellent range, but all her other attacks seem to lack. You can’t combo Jigglypuff, so don’t even try. Another thing you should watch out for are her smash attacks. Jigglypuff’s f-smash goes right through a lot of your stuff if you don’t shield it (then grab, then headbutt, then throw.)

Against a WOPing Jigglypuff, don’t be afraid to jump over her and attack with an aerial. You can also shorthop bvackwards to avoid the kick, then swing in and PK shove her. You do beat her in the air coming from all directions except from behind her, so perhaps this is the best approach. Oh, and most Jigglypuff players will be in the air almost all of the time.

Jigglypuff’s other weakness besides her range is her exceptionally light weight, which serves as a double-edged sword. While it prevents you from using your nasty aerial combos, it also means that she’ll be KOed on really low damage by almost all your finishing moves. (around 70% back throw, I think, perhaps a little more.)

Jigglypuff is pretty much on par with Ness. Don’t underestimate her or she’ll kick your hiney while you’re not looking.

Mewtwo: **(and a half)

Mewtwo is surprisingly easy to combo. He’s also very light and kind of slow. An easy fight? Not really. Good Mewtwo players have some very unusual tricks up their sleeves that can have you frustrated or astounded. His DJC is much faster than yours, lending him a speedy frontal attack, and you can’t attack him from above because of his tail whips. He also outranges you in the air from behind and above, and every now and again, you’ll come up against a Mewtwo player who teleports just about EVERYWHERE!! But overall, if you utilize all your tricks and abilities, Mewtwo makes a good match for Ness, but doesn’t pose too much of a threat. But that doesn’t mean you can underestimate a good Mewtwo. Just try not to cop a shadow ball full on. Don’t try anything stupid, like batting a shadow ball, or trying to absorb it with PSI magnet. And try not to let Mewtwo throw you. Remember, d tilt is your friend!


Mr. Game and Watch: ***

Mr Game and Watch has a lot of priority with his pretty-powerful attacks. He matches you in the air, and he can match your ground abilities and speed. But he can’t match your bag of tricks. Because Mr. G has such a pathetic shield, and he doesn’t have many fast attacks that reach directly in front of him and up a bit, you can PK shove him from a shorthop and then d tilt under his shield. If he starts turtledancing you, try to counter it with dash dance, or even just wait for him to make a mistake. The turtledance is unpredictable, though, and I’d like to think that a lot of G&W players use it. (It’s the only good technique I’ve ever invented!) Mind games are always good. If a Game and Watch is stupid enough to use his Chef against you while he’s on the ground, simply absorb the sausages with PSI magnet or roll in and punish him. DO NOT attack Mr. Game and Watch from above, you will lose. Do not try to use PK thunder on him in case he manages to bucket it. Also, he’s difficult to edge guard in the traditional manner. The best thing to do is hang on the edge and watch what he does. If he uses trampoline early, edge cancel and hit him with bair. If he tries to get an edge grab, press R the second you hear the beep of the trampoline activating. Another thing you should be careful of is his aerial game. Simply don’t attack Mr. Game and Watch in the air, you don’t have an advantage. Of course, aerial fake outs are always useful, as are ones on the ground. Rolling also seems to work against the black sprite.

Marth: *****(here we go…)

What’s there to say about Marth? He’s fast and powerful and has excellent range. His only weakness is his priority. He owns you in the air and on the ground. The only real defense you have against this sword-wielding cheapskate are your mind games and fake out ability, and it’s difficult to use them properly because of his range! However, a lot of Marth players like to leave the ground for that ultimate priority aerial attack. They shorthop in and then chop, which leads to all sorts of aerial crudlyness. If you can see this chop coming, you may like to dash dance it and punish it. You can sort of use Marth’s range against him, too. Because his sword hitting anywhere other than the tip is so darn weak, Marth players will pride themselves for knowing the exact sweet spot range of all of Marth’s moves and will try to hit you with the tip of his sword every time. I suggest you play around with Marth in training mode and get a good idea about how long his sword is. That way, you know how far it reaches in battle and you should be able to predict when a jumping/running Marth will attack. You can roll, sidestep, triangle jump, dash dance…anything to avoid the tip and then punish.
Doing direct damage to a good Marth by use of Shorthop or anything else is nearly impossible. You will have to use your cunning to defeat him…and it doesn’t help by the fact that he’s very hard to combo.
If you manage to get Marth over the edge, then it’s jackpot time. Get him far enough and an edgehog will guarantee you the win. You can also PK fire at him, which reminds me that your projectile and aerial fake outs work well when fighting a Marth, but take more effort to perform because of that #$%*@$% sword..
Marth is more challenging to defeat than Sheik. (For Ness.) oh, and beware his grabs too. And his counter…and the fact that if he gets you off the edge you’re a gonner, even if you’re close…(****, Marth is a b*tch to beat…)

Roy: ***

Like Marth, but with a not-so good sword. Treat him the same way, but don’t be so scared to fight him directly. You may take a little bit of damage when fighting him in the air, but most of the time you’ll get the hit, or you’ll get it on the way down because of his lag. He’s easy to combo. Yay. He has a dangerous counter and edgeguard attack. Ooh.
But you should be a good match for him, just use those mind games and dirty tactics

Nice you keep this thread updated, though I don´t think pichu is a * start matchup, make it **.
Pichu still has the great speed going and strong smashes... and it gets pretty hard to land anything on her(?) because she is such a good evader.
nothing you couldn´t work trough tho. be wary oh her good shield game. nessby plays a good pichu of yer interested in a vid.
Pikachu is even too... or so they think at pikachu forums.
I think it´s true, since pika is quite a good character with bad shield and bad grab range (no pun intented) at what you can try to pick on too.

For Marth:
His weakness is his bad close-range game, not too great attacks reaching his otherside and most of all the lasting time of his swipes are mostly just a few frames which allows for evading his attacks, which you mentioned. And Marth is not good at KOíng at higher percents... though he is really good KOíng at lower %
Ness can match Marth´s running speed by sprintdashing and many Ness attacks come out faster so I don´t see why Marth has the speed advantage. he isn´t too hard to combo, though his floatiness, over-b stalling and a well timed dair helps... but the dair is risky and Ness can work his way through it if he sees it coming.

I´d say Sheik is a bit harder because Ness can´t pick on her afterlag much at all.

Whats the pun? Anyways Marth is bad for Ness. Same for Sheik. I think they both need to be ***** to me. O wait this is PAL version nvr mind then on the sheik being *****'s more like ****.

pichu is easy huh? lol ok. Have fun with that.

Originally posted by NESSBOUNDER
Quite fast. (Yes, I’m not joking.)

Click to expand...

Yeah, he can be crazy fast. I play an attention ***** style with Ness which brings out the speed in him (for me atleast). I'm sure I've said this before but it evolves around:

Back, up, forward and neutral DJC's
Back: Used mostly for impromptu attacks backwards and OOS DJC's when the opponent is behind me. It's almost played like a back-feet Doc Mario.
Up: Djc for fast fallers primarily...
Foward: I almost never normal fair, I play the fair djc as a hit-and-run attack.
Neutral: It doesn't have enough range for me and I use it OOS (duh) to escape.

DDing/WDing/OOS Combinations
Being able to OOS WD with Ness is beyond important. Also, while fighting I find it helps me to do DD/WD and WD/DD combinations to psyche out my opponents. Being able to slide into those DJC's add to the element of suprise. I don't know if anyone else does this.... but I tap run fast then WD instantly with all characters I play, it lengthens your WDs

Like I said.... it's an attention ***** Ness. :o PK Fire to reverse WD DJC Bair can seal the deal if they fail to DI out of the fire. :D I liked the guide and it gave me some ideas. If it won't be too much,
someone could point of some of the flaws in my strategy. I know it's hard for Ness to get in close sometimes, but with these strategies I find it a bit easier to get in close. Apparently, none of you have seen me play with the move list selection. I need to know the limitations/restrictions of playing all djcs along with a couple extra random moves. Thanks.

-MewtwoMatt :hungry:

What are those OOS?
I haven´t heard the term but I might use it in actual battle of which I´m not aware.

Greta: I also use the sprint+wavedash, it helps Ness alot!
I call it sprintdash and so do many others too.

Oh and I sometimes Dashdance to WD backwards to backroll. It´s a really fast way to get behinf your opponent with invincibilty frames.
It works great if you think they won´t turn around or if you think they´ll attack.

Me time!

I am also confused by OOS. (off of stage?)

I don't DD enough...

I think people underuse Roll, I do. I think WDing is superior in every way...but a well placed Roll can be suprising.

Out of shield, if I'm not mistaken

good we got that cleared out for a moment i thought I had missed some crucial Ness tehcniques.

Well I've never heard of OOS.

Greta, your strategy seems solid enough for me. I'd think you should start using f-air more. Shorthop F-air is EXTREMILY cheap, because you don't need to cancel it at all, meaning you just can't be punished by those shield users and DD/WDers who are just waiting for you to flub an aerial attack. The move is Ness's only aerial disjointed hitbox and goes through most stuff, and it's great for just about everything except KO ing.

Don't rely only on your DJC's. Ness has a whole lot of good moves you can use, especially his grabs. If you're playing a psyche Ness (attention whorse, whatever.) you should learn all his fakeouts and quirky little movements that will scare your opponents into a defensive position. Learning to play an evade and punish Ness wouldn't hurt either.

I'm doing a section on playing styles next.

Oh, an UmbrionMow, I know that some people can play a good Pichu, but he really is such a weak character. And he's just as easy to hit as anyone else, especially when you're Ness.

Uhhh...

You don't normal Fair? (to Greta)

Why not? You can always SH FAIR> DJC FAIR.

I am probably just misunderstanding what you were trying to say...but it seems pointless to always DJC.

I also disliked your allusion to PK-Fire....I tend to be punished whenever I use it.

Bairs rock...

And hey...Pichu isn't that bad at all!!! Pichu is not much worse than Pika really. American tiers are all wrong. Pichu is much better than M2 or Koopa.

EDIT: I have a friend who plays a mean Pichu...he is definatly harder to hit than an average character. Gawd...I have more trouble fighting Pichu than Fox....arrr....

Don´t undersestimate the POWERS of pichu :D

you make me want to play her as my main

I bair much more than uair... prolly just my style, dunno. I like edgeguarding so I usually bair even when I could Uair.

btw. I fulljump quite much. just because I put my enemy in a defending position and I can either DjC: to something or just landwavedash to something. it works. I still shorthop a bit more than fulljump.

Ness has so many styles, I think it even deserves an own thread to it
unless NessBounder isn´t fast :D

Style my Ness

You should call my style: Drunken Style....or sumfin...

NESS STYLES FOR EVERYONE!!

Style 1: IN YOUR FACE- NESS.

This is probably the most common style. A constant attack Ness who pounds his opponet without mercy. As Ness can flow from attack to attack much in the same way as Shiek, this sort of Ness can be very effective, providing the player is not TOO agressive.
This style of Ness needs constant abuse of aerials, DJC aerials and fast ground attacks like the bat and u-tilt. This is also the fastest way to play Ness, but in order to do so, you need to be able to quickly adapt to any situation, and know where is the best place to use all of Ness's moves.

Style 2: NESS-AND-RUN.

Tricky evasive running annoying poking Ness!! This defensive style works well against most ranged or slowish opponets. (and some of the fast ones as well.) Get good with Dash dancing, position fakeouts, wavedashing, sprintdashing, triangle jumping, shielding, reversebackrolling and all evasive tricks like this and you can play a Ness and run.
First of all, it's important not to show that you're being defensive. Fake agression whenever possible by running at the opponent, jumping into the air for an obvious aerial etc. When the opponent begins to attack you, dodge and punish then combo! After slapping them around a bit, run like a wimp!! This should prompt the opponent to try to chase you all over the place, so then it's time to dodge and punish again. Some players find it difficult to keep up constant evasive play because it requires them to know all thier opponents attacks, their range and what they're capable of doing. However, no style is better at humiliating the opponent and making them look like a stupid berserker.

Style 3: NESSJITSU (PSYCHE NESS)

Similar to Ness and run, but this style relies more on fakeouts and mind games than outright evasion. Moves such as PK Fire have a place in this game. It is more offensively geared than Ness and Run as well. Mind games such as a reckless rush at the opponent and then stopping just outside thier range to see thier reaction are the things you should be aiming for.

Style 4: GRASSHOPPER STANCE.

This one is a little hard to explain. First of all, Ness must only make very limited contact with the ground unless he's using an attack. You should be constantly hitting the shorthop button, even when you're not near the opponent. constant, persistent shorthops (and I mean CONSTANT) will make Ness a very annoying target to hit. Surprisingly, this doesn't limit his mobility at all. Ness can still dodge attacks and then punish. He loses some speed, but the sheer unpredictability he gains is worth the effort. For one thing, whipping this stance out in the middle of a battle confuses the opponent. Suddenly seeing Ness hop towards his opponent like a demented rabbit will make most people think "what the HECK are you doing?!" Soon, they'll grow accustomed to your aerial attacks and will be expecting them whenever you advance. So stop hopping and use a ground attack every now and again, then start hopping again whenever the chance arises. Some people may think that this style opens Ness up for punishment, but the truth is, it doesn't. The player only has to get used to constantly being in the air and how to handle evasion. Quick reflexes help. (I invented this style when I was bored. I tried it on my friend, and was suprised how effective it is against human opponents.) Just practice long enough and you'll get the hang of it.

That's all for today, I'll do more later.