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Guide NESSBOUNDER'S Nesstastic Ness Guide (PAL version.)

VilNess

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Hehee thanks for the input! You should also write that what color fits what style, just for the heck of it. :)
btw. I heard something of a Bumblebee style. It´s prolly like your In-your-face-Ness, except that in this style Ness is almost always in air. oh and this style requires some Pkmissile offense when juggling :D ...lotsa DjC and anything that makes you look like a bumblebee. The color choice here is pretty obvious.


Oh btw. I play grasshopper stance usaully against my bros sheik and it works pretty well. Also Nessjitsu is my choice against Marth usually.
 

dan smith

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Well...ok...

I am Bumblee I guess...it is my favourite colour scheme.

The only moves I do that aren't in the air are SGs, edge guarding bat/Flash/Fire, and an occasional bout of A combo to break off my opponent.

I have never tried hopping like a frog...

I think everybody uses PK Fire a little more when fighting Marth, it's proven effective against him.
 

VilNess

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WDpkfire-> some pressure on Marf indeed. just watch out his SH approaches...

definetly try frogging against Sheik it darn sure works!

I think I´m mostly Ness and run :)
 

dan smith

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P....AL?

I don't have PAL, wow I never even realized it says PAL in the thread title.

A thread needs to be made!
 

VilNess

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Hmm.. There aren´t any notable differences in Ness PAL or Ness NTSC
though in PAL sheik really doesn´t have anything broken against you.
uair is weak and chain-trhow is gone.
 

NESSBOUNDER

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Grasshopper stance is fun, isn't it?

Anyway, Marth is almost as light as Kirby in the PAL version, and his spike isn't nearly as deadly.

Yeah, and Sheik isn't nearly as broken. No chain throw, weak attacks, but she's still got her speed and priority so she's still top.
 

dan smith

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Oh...

I wish I had read this before posting that PAL/NTSC thread...

I wish I didn't have to put up with Sheik's chain throwing. I think chain throwing in general should be removed if possible.

I knew the info about Marth's changes...Yoshi was made better also, thus furthering his dominance of Marth.

I am actually one of those who believe the Japanese tiers, which have Fox as the best character.

Sheik is amazing, but a perfectly played Fox is a god.

EDIT: How can I close my PAL/NTSC thread? Or...do I not have that ability as a Smash Apprentice?
 

NESSBOUNDER

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love your banner. :D

(sorry, this is a pointless post. I may not update this for a while. Working on a new fanfic. Have homework to study, etc.)
 

VilNess

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Im not sure if sheik should be top anymore...
If she is then There should be Falco and Peach too, like 5 top tires.
Ness can outspeed sheik which gives Ness a nice advantage.
jump away from her attack attemps, punish her lag (yes even she has lag) with DjC fair. If she crouch cancels you can try a charged upsmash.
I noticed this worked quite often when I played against some sheiks in RN4.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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Really though...

I'm trying to prove that Ness' recovery is just a big learning curve and IS NOT as bad as its reputation says. I hope to get Ness up to AT LEAST high tier...

Although I know Mow would disagree with my goal...^_^


I mean...come one ppl...If you know u r gonna get edgeguarded then use a PKTB...get your timing down...PKTB has saved me plenty of times vs. Fox and vs. Jiggs and works with anyone as long as you are not too far out to begin with

Just don't be caught using PKTB when no one is edgeguarding you!(You can imagine what happens when this goes on...OMG fatal weakness!)
 

VilNess

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Yes, Ness recovery is indeed hard but not so sucky then.
For example lotsa people don´t sweetspot their 2nd jump.
It worked better than I expected at the finnish tourney I attended.
example 1: friendly match my Ness against Marth.
I was recovering and Marth was charging his DeadSmash.
What I did was a near to perfect sweetspot on the ledge with 2nd jump. There was no way that smash was going that low below the egde (pokestadium) because of Ness´huge sweetspot range. The match continued AND Ness had just recovered against a Marth.

Example 2 (even better)
I was playing against a sheik and I was recovering. Sheik had seen that dsmash (or similiar) didn´t work against my sweetspotting so sheik tried to edgeguard me off the stage.
Now what I did was I airdodged up just over the ledge so I could grab it. I succeeded grabbing the ledge while sheik tried to edgehog me with her upB but got edgehogged herself.
This was recorded and I hope I can share this vid sometimes. ^_^
 

dan smith

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Flocci Non Facio

The only bad thing about Ness' recovery is when you have to use your triple jump and somebody get's in the way...or spikes you.

It is really easy to jump off the stage and just TAKE a PK Thunder instead of letting Ness use his triple jump.

Falcon, Falco, Ganon, etc...can also SPIKE you really easily while you are trying to PK Missle.

OR

A Jigglypuff can jump off and Rest you.

His triple jump has a flaw.

This is my main problem with Ness' recovery...
 

DeeDoubleU

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Link's boomerangs are murder for PK thunder eating... I think its probably best to attempt to recover while you are still pretty high in the air while fighting him.
 

dan smith

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Verba?

The people I play are ruthless, I try and recover and they jump off the stage to STOMP me down. G-Dorf has pretty good recovery for a big guy.

If you are talking about hitting them with the PK Thunder in some way to stop them...first you would have to tailwhip them in order to not automatically die...and they usually jump for the KO after I have maneuvered the Thunder beneath myself. It's an unavoidable situation.

Trying to tailwhip them is fairly inneffective....only rarely do they time badly and get PK Missiled.

My friends rock at Smash.
 

NESSBOUNDER

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Uh, uh, uh, people! This is a PAL version guide, so NO BARRIERING!! In PAL version, it's impossible to keep PK thunder in play even as a rogue projectile after Ness has been hit.

Anyway, MORE STYLES AND STANCES! YAY!

PSI ripoff=VOLDO: BLIND STANCE (Sorry, I really am, but having Ness mimic Voldo is appropriate for this situation. Voldo, on the other hand, is never appropriate. Just avoid.)

Basically, a fun one. Constantly have Ness with his back facing opponent. Constantly attack with moves like D-smash and shorthop Bair, or if you need to use frontal moves, then use them, but turn around instantly. Evasive games such as dash dancing are recommended. This basically serves to freak out your opponent, especially if you modify it by mixing it with Grasshopper stance, creating:

BLIND GRASSHOPPER STANCE

grasshopper stance with your back to the enemy! Ness can land and swivel around any time with any move, and it looks very weird. What's more, Ness can land, turn around, and attack with Ftilt in the blink of an eye, leaving opponents to guess just what move he's going to use next. Ness can mix in D smashes upon landing or he can simply turn and hop into a Bair or any aerial move with no lag.

SADISTIC MASQUERADE

Not exactly a style. More of a submission trick or a stance. Using PK thunder, strike Ness from above (PK Thunder Lag Cancel), causing him to flop on the ground, exposed. This is used during edgeguarding with the tail of PK thunder, and allows Ness to retreat with a roll or knock the opponent back with a rising strike for more edgeguarding fun. Can also be used after tailing people in the air. Ness is the only character who can easilly set himself on the ground without damage, so this stance is unique. (The PK Thunder Lag Cancel is a technique brought to our attention by Vilness.)

WEAPON MASTAH NESS

Craftilly use only Yo-yo attacks and physical moves. A lot of evasion is required for this style to work. Use this after a lot of psychic abuse to really throw your opponent off guard. (Because they'll be expecting PK shove, and you'll hit them with your bat.
 

MediocreGamer

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I'm sorry, but I disagree with you saying don't use the Yo-Yo's to edgeguard, if you charge an Around the World right, you can get the Yo-Yo to hang off the ledge, so that if your opponant goes for a sweet spotted ledge grab, it'll pop them, then you release it to knock them up, and follow with a SH'd Dropkick or a Bat, since the knockback on Around the World is weak. I've used this technique a good number of times, and it works great. You just have to space Ness right..
 

NESSBOUNDER

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MY 700th POST WHOOT!

MediocreGamer, most characters can sweet spot RIGHT THROUGH the Yo-yo, no matter how you hang it over the edge. They're invincible when they ledge grab, and since most edgegrabs have a disjointed hitbox, they will not get damaged by the spinning toy. What's more, the U-smash Yo-yo's damage hitbox blinks on and off as it's charging, meaning that there are times during the charge that it won't even hit the recovering person.

Or at least that's what happens in MY game, anyway.
 

VilNess

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Originally posted by NESSBOUNDER
Ness is the only character who can easilly set himself on the ground without damage, so this stance is unique.

hehee thanks for the credit.
Though I gotta say that ALL chars can set theirselves on ground without damage. This requires the WaveTumble technique.
Easiest and prolly most useful with Luigi. just WD off a platform facing away from the direction you WD. if you take enough distance luigi will start wavetumbling and fall on his back unless at really low high differences such as in FoD sometimes.
Edit: remember to keep your shield pressed down with L,R,(Z) so you start tumbling
Really hard with chars like Peach since her short WD requires more perfection, and chars like fox need a long distance to get grounded (such as in Hyrule temple highest tower) so it´s Most useless to those.
Though I agree Ness has the easiest time actually setting himself on ground because you can actually do it in levels like FD.

oh btw. about using yoyo to edgeguard.
I don´t do it when my enemies try to sweetspot the ledge for the reasons NESSBOUNDER said, rather use it when they are hanging there and get up! I don´t do it much so it serves the mindgame purpose though. And I played against my bros luigi today and I was able to Bat him, just like MG said. :)

And in one vid of me I use it against a sheik and if I remember correctly I was able to utilt after it. or at least I got to the double hit which I am 100% sure of.
 

MediocreGamer

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Not to try and say I'm better than you or something, but it seems to work perfectly every time, blocking people from sweetspotting the ledge, and I've never really noticed a hitbox dissapearence..maybe it's another difference between PAL and NTSC?
 

VilNess

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Well the thing is... some chars sweetspot range isn´t so good (Ness and Mario bros. have great sweetspot range and Pikas suck in it)

besides if you think they´ll sweetspot you´ll usually have better options than toy them around with yoyo.
And if they can return to stage some chars. can punish you (marth for ex.) while you charge the upsmash, or simply use other alternative for recovery (like Falco´s illusion or firebird)

But IMO it is good to use to chars that already caught the ledge...Or you can try piss off space animals below the stage for instance.
 

dan smith

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N00B!

It's called Falco Phantasm....geez VilNess...

Seriously though, I think against opponents who aren't used to playing Ness the Yo-yo edgeguard is fairly safe. They will have never seen it before and most likely not understand what it will do. If you think about the viewpoint of the opponent...

They have no idea what you will do, Bat/PK Fire or Yo-yo, which prevents them from cosistantly counter reacting to your edgeguard.

I will continue using the Yo-yo edgeguard until it stops working.

VilNess: I didn't really understand what you were talking about with WaveTumbling. Did I miss something?
 

VilNess

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Originally posted by NESSBOUNDER
Uh, uh, uh, people! This is a PAL version guide, so NO BARRIERING!! In PAL version, it's impossible to keep PK thunder in play even as a rogue projectile after Ness has been hit.

Anyway, MORE STYLES AND STANCES! YAY!

PSI ripoff=VOLDO: BLIND STANCE (Sorry, I really am, but having Ness mimic Voldo is appropriate for this situation. Voldo, on the other hand, is never appropriate. Just avoid.)

Basically, a fun one. Constantly have Ness with his back facing opponent. Constantly attack with moves like D-smash and shorthop Bair, or if you need to use frontal moves, then use them, but turn around instantly. Evasive games such as dash dancing are recommended. This basically serves to freak out your opponent, especially if you modify it by mixing it with Grasshopper stance, creating:

BLIND GRASSHOPPER STANCE

grasshopper stance with your back to the enemy! Ness can land and swivel around any time with any move, and it looks very weird. What's more, Ness can land, turn around, and attack with Ftilt in the blink of an eye, leaving opponents to guess just what move he's going to use next. Ness can mix in D smashes upon landing or he can simply turn and hop into a Bair or any aerial move with no lag.

Oh yeah there is difference between PAL and NTSC Ness after all :(
Okay as for these styles (kinda just wanna bump this)
I think mxing up backrolling or WD to backroll can be quite effective, since that´s what I do sometimes to get in marths range.
Shorthopbairs to backrolls sometimes can make the situtation opposite! Now Ness is facing at some char. while (s)he´s facing away from Ness :)
 

dan smith

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Roll is often underestimated...it's not replaced by WD! They can both work in unison. Albeit Rolling isn't as good...can be punished...but if you Roll in the lag of an NME move or simply to cover distance..

You can also Roll an opponent off the stage...as you probably know. Fairly useful...
 

NESSBOUNDER

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I added an appropriate easter egg section to the first post concerning the Yo-yo glitch/memory loop.

I'll be extending it later. In the meantime, please post any Ness styles you think you have that make you special. (My friend plays a Ness who somehow manages to flail all over the stage like an ungraceful flying sausage on wheels. It's not useful, but it's darn funny. Perhaps it's because he doesn't play Ness?)

POST YOUR SPECIAL MOVEMENTS, POST THEM!

RUB!
 

King Kong

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Oi Matt

Oi Nessbounder (MAtt Ryan)

Dude, sorry for not catching up with you before I head of to Brisbane. But i'll be back some time in May, I knew you post things on this site so i thought it would be the best way to keep in touch. I figured i'd post DK strategies and stuff on this site as well.

If you see this post just visit me in the DK room sometime (its a very lonely room) And I lookforward to kicking your a** when I get back (DK is predictable?I stayed alive for almost ten minutes that one match). I can KO a lvl 9 Marth 3 times in 47 seconds now with my Cargo to fwd B combo so you and all the opther Ness players watch out.

See ya dude, oh yeah, other guys on this thread, tell nessbounder to check this out in case he misses it.
 

NESSBOUNDER

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Ha ha...that's my evasive DK friend. He plays a pretty tricky monkey. Good luck with your uni course if you can read this! And remember that you can beat my G&W, and he's closer to DK than Ness is.
 

D1

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I wanted to check out your Ness guide, but you said that this is for PAL, so does this mean anyone w/ the NTSC versions can't appliy this stuff into their Ness game?
 

King Kong

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hey Nessbounder

Dude thanx for the feedback it sucks to live somewhere where there is no internet well hey. I should get your e-mail so we dont have to keep in touch over this forum site anyways man keep training cos i'm getting better.

Who was that who said DK was not a good as Ness? I hope u live in Australia dude, cos u are going down your about to get a Giant punch in your face seriously it Ko's ness on around 55% so watch out.
 

VilNess

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Well ya Dk punch KO´s just about anyone at pretty low %

DK is still one of Ness´s easier matchups mostly because DK falls easily in Ness´ aerial combos... not to mention about Ness being able to kinda chainthrow him with DjC.d fairs if DK DI´s away from Dthrow.
If he DI´s up it´s even worse.

just thought I´d point that out.

Dk is still overall better char but definetly NOT in this particular matchup.
 

dan smith

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DK is awesome.

I wouldn't say DK is better...he has some awesome matchups and some terrible ones. Ness can do fairly well against everybody and in the end that is what decides who is better. Seeing a DK combo a fast faller around is definately more impressive than anything a Ness can do though. He has a sick off stage combo too. 0% KO on some characters.

Ness has to actually earn his kills...sigh...
 
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