The Falco SHINE GUIDE by NJ'zFinest

First of all, I would like to give credit to Matt Deezie:
Quoted by Sastopher: Matt Deezie, host of one of the very first Melee Tournaments (and certainly the very first real national tournament), the "TG" series (Tournament: Go!) as the originator for the term "shine". He used to wear some sort of crazy sequin shirt he'd flash like mad whenever he shine-spiked someone (as far as I know, he was one of the first competitive smashers to use this technique to kill in a tournament, though it was around in Smash 64 so this could be way off). Before that it was just "reflector". Lame.

The Falco Shine Guide
The Shine Falco’s Down B move, aka the reflector. It’s the fastest move in the game tied with Jigglypuff's Rest; it’s exactly 1 frame fast.

Newbies always use the shine for just reflecting. But, the main use of it is as a get off me move since its very fast and close ranged. It’s also used to do incredible combos that leave the opponent with not much to do. In, shine combos, the opponent should be in the state where they cannot attack and their only method of dodging is through the DI. DI means Directional Influence. It’s when you move in a certain direction while being attacked; you use it so that you can get out of a combo or whatever. You can also DI during attacks to space yourself.

. The shine makes you invincible on the 1st frame of the move
. You can't cancel it in the first 3 frames, nor can it reflect any projectile then
. The shine's hitlag is 3 frame for Fox and 4 frames for Falco
. Turning around in the shine takes 3 frames
. Foxs shine's hitbox is a lot bigger than Falco's (incidentally that's why Falco can hit shielding opponents easier)
(thank you Doraki for the info)

NOTE:
the shine is mainly used right after any l-canceled aerial move to prevent "counter" techniques or to start combos


Techniques to know:
Wavedash: when you dodge diagonally into the ground after a jump. It’s best when u do it quickly after a jump so that you won’t leave the ground.

Perfect wavedash: A wavedash where you dodge in a way that’s almost horizontal to the ground. This isn’t very important to master, but it’s very useful on opponents who like to DI away from your shines.

Jump cancelled (JC) grab: when you jump and quickly press grab afterwards. This is faster than a normal dash grab for most characters. You perform a standing grab while dashing.

Short hop: When u quickly press jump and perform a shorter jump.

L-cancel: when you hit the ground performing an A move in the air, press Z, L, or R to reduce the lag in half

Shine Techniques:
Waveshine: When you wavedash out of a Shine. When waveshining, make sure you wavedash out of the shine as fast as you can. Also, try to wavedash as far as you can (perfect wavedash). If you cannot waveshine at will after alot of practice, I strongly suggest for you to switch characters.

my method of waveshining
http://www.smashboards.com/showthre...493#post1505493

if you suck at waveshining perfectly, check this out http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=55728
it wont help much for competive play though and i highly do not recommend it

JC shine: when you full jump, double jump, or short hop out of a shine

Dash shine: when you run and perform a shine. When u do a dashed waveshine, you actually end up closer to the stunned opponent through the momentum of the dash.

L-canceled shine (a “term” I use): when u peform an aerial move, then l-cancel, then shine. Even if they shield the aerial move, they might try to shield grab you after the attack finishes, but the shine will start before the grab. So this is a decent anti shield grab move

Reverse waveshine: when u turn around in a shine, then wavedash
quoted by shiva39 "How about "Shine-turn"?

You can do a dashed shine turn to a bair--this is effective even if the shine doesn't connect and is used to turn around, for the sweet-spotted bair

Ledge-hopped Shine-turned bair--Is what it sounds like. Fall off the ledge, shine, turn, then sweet-spot bair the edge-guarding opponent, who by this point is suffering from the lag of his missed attack.

Shine-turned ledgehog--This works on CPUs--I've yet to try it on humans--but near the ledge, if you shine, turn, and wavedash back, and the opponent has immediately used their up-b for whatever reason (CPUs do!), then you'll have the edgehog already set up, or you can immediately bair, or any other such variation."


Shine Spike: When you use the shine as a very quick method of preventing the opponent from getting back to stage. You use the knockback of the shine to hit the opponent away from the stage by doing the shine at a precise time. During a shine spike, the oppenent is knocked back at a fast speed and good distance. It's explained much more in the Fox Shine Guide and not explained at all in the Falco Shine Guide since it's not really a spike for him. Falco has his d-air and his shine cannot spike well since it brings the oppenent up, so, shine spiking with him is somewhat useless.

Shine Grab: When you JC out of a shine and grab. Usually, the shine is used after an aerial move to prevent the opponent from shield grabbing them. But, sometimes the opponent may expect the shine and shield it. But, you can JC out of the shine and grab them before they grab you. So, they'll receive damage no matter what after shielding the aerial move.
Here's Mew2king's example-
“After setting up with a Nair, if they block the Nair they might try to shield-grab you, so you should then Shine when you land, then wait a split second after you Shine (you can let go of B and wait a bit but not TOO long of course) then do a normal jump-cancelled grab (X+Z). This will do a Shine into a grab soon after so that if they hold block the whole time the Nair and Shine will shrink their shield slightly + you will get a free grab, and if they don't block it then you at least get a Nair + Shine out of it. I prefer using this mostly against characters that Fox cannot Shine combo. I could also do constant full jump or shuffle Nairs + Shines over and over like DA Hellfox does but that way you only shrink their shield like Falco's pillar and you don't get a grab out of it.”

Shine Aerial combo (very hard to do): With either fox or falco, if you shine an opponent in the air, quickly double jump and perform an aerial move. The aerial move should come out very quickly after the shine. The main purpose is for flashyness and an extra 5% damage. With falco, this can be done from the ground.

Sheild shine: Sheild, then quickly jump and perform a shine. This is nice to send opponents away with fox, and you can combo with this using falco.

Shine Stall: *as quoted from TheCape*
"Pretty much how it works is Fox ( also works with falco) grabs the ledge, falls, shines, then JCs into a firefox. The firefox then cancels and fox grabs the ledge. This allows you to stay invincible, and shine spike at the same time." http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60439&highlight=shine+stall <---for more info
Shine right out of Shield: *as quoted from Noob-Lube*
"Simply put, if you are fast enough you can jump cancel sheild into a shine without leaving the ground, making fox's shine one of the fastest moves out of sheild in the game (5 frames to activate) Falco's shine out of sheild is 2 frames slower due to his jumping start-up lag of six frames. After landing the shine (without leaving the ground) you can wavedash into any shine combo, including infinites..." http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=63783 <--more info


Falco’s shine:
Falco’s shine sends the opponent upwards. Anyone can be comboed with Falco’s shine and it’s relatively easy to combo with this shine.


First of all, it’s best to pefrom an L-canceled move (like the n-air or d-air), then waveshine. Many players perform their shine combos through aerial moves. Sometimes, they may run up and shine or w/e.

FALCO SHINE GUIDE(all verisions)

Falco's Shine on fast fallers:

Repeative jc shine/ waveshine: Once you shine a fast faller at low %, if you jump cancel or wavedash out of the shine, u can quickly perform a repeative waveshine juggle. Don’t rely on this a lot since DI can mess it up badly.

Waveshine to smash attack: This works at low/mid damages and usually isn't predicted since the oppenent should expect you to continue combing (this isnt really recommented to use).

Waveshine to grab: If you really wanted to get in a grab on your oppenent, you can grab them after a shine at low percentages.

Up throw, aerial jc shine, aerial move : Grab the oppenent, throw them upwards, jc shine them in the air, then quickly follow with an aerial move. Only possible on fast-fallers.

Falco on everyone:

Aerial to shine: just do an l-canceled aerial move (n-air and d-air are best), then shine. popular way to start shine combos

Jump canceled shine or Waveshine (depending on DI) to aerial: Falco's most notorouis move. After the shine, you can full jump, double jump, short hop, or wavedash out of it and quickly perform an aerial move on the stunned opponent. The most popular one is the d-air. Once u d-air the oppenent and fast fall, you can quickly repeat the combo. However, this combo isn't infinite.

JC shine or waveshine to u-air juggle: after a waveshine or jump canceled shine, you can perform an easy uptilt or u-air combo on the opponent. the catch is that you must follow the direction the oppenent is DIing torwards with the u-air. a small uptilt juggle can lead to a free grab.

JC shine or waveshine, d-air, u-tilt: During your d-air shine combo, when you hit the ground on the l-cancel, you can quickly peform a u-tilt to surpise the oppenent by sending them back into the air. You should land on the ground before the opponent when you do the u-tilt. Usually used on floatlies like Marth at low damages.

Aerial jc shine to aerial move: this surpise ppl pretty well. It’s almost like running up to the opponent with fox and shining. Here, you jump torwards the opponent, do an aerial, shine, double jump cancel the shine, then do an aerial (such as a u-air, b-air or d-air). At high damages, you really have to have quick reactions to high the oppenent twice (shine+aerial) since they may go too high.

Sheild to aerial shine combo : Like I mentioned before, you can shine right out of you're shield. After you perform the aerial shine, you can then do an aerial move to the opponent (depends on DI and damage). I use perform an u-air or d-air. Keep in mind that you can shine out of your shield without leaving the ground (as covered before in "shine techniques").

Falco pillar: short hop, d-air, l-cancel, shine, then repeat. This is good on shield grabbers since you’re constantly hitting their shield. Keep in mind that you can grab after a shine.

keep in mind...

Shine Stall Edge Guarding:
"Basically you know that when you shine in the air you give yourself some brief stall time, almost as if Fox/Falco have their own imaginary platform for while. We also know that you can turn around while doing the shine. The point of this type of edge guard is to jump off the stage before your opponent gets close, shine, turn around, then jump out of shine and back aerial. This kills people earlier since you are edge guarding them further away from the stage. It’s also an easy way to scare people into changing the timing of their jumps/up Bs, but since you are almost hovering in the air for a brief moment, you can delay a bit and still not fall much, which means you can change your timing before the jump and back aerial as well. It seems to be a bit better with Falco because his back aerial hitbox seems to be a little better. This technique is relatively safe as long as you don’t let your opponent go over you too high or too low. And instead of pressing B and using a button to jump, it’s also easier and safer to hold B and press up on the stick to jump. Doing the aerial with A or C stick is almost the same thing, except with A you have a greater chance of moving forward while doing it. Not a major deal, though.
Sometimes you can let your opponent past you, then carefully watch how they recover and jump out of shine with phantasm. Often times it happens so fast and unexpectedly that they won’t meteor cancel in time. Of course, it sucks for Fox since it only helps people."
-quoted from Lord HDL



need up follwowing up the D-air??? go here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=1341219#post1341219

more to come as more is revealed...

This was made for me >.>

Good job on the Falco guide NJ. Can't really think of anything to add. I sometimes use waveshine to juggle Fast Fallers at low percentages. You shine then WD under them and shine again, and finish with a Fsmash. or Nair

You forgot bowser.

Ness doesn't fall down.

It looks like it will be a pretty good referall page.


Also, The tech chasing section should include strats to scoop them off the ground. It's not like they will tech the shine every single time.

FalseFalco said:

It looks like it will be a pretty good referall page.
.

Click to expand...

^____^

FalseFalco said:

Also, The tech chasing section should include strats to scoop them off the ground. It's not like they will tech the shine every single time.

Click to expand...

idk what you mean when you say that...

EDIT: YEA BOI, im a Smash Apprentice!!!! (sings moving on up song)

I doubt that every single time you shine a character that falls down, they will tech. Like, instateching a shine isn't too easy to do.

So I think you should revise the section and add on strategys for attack the opponent when they're on the ground, since that is where they will end up more often that teching.

for example:

you shine falco, he falls down on the ground and doesn't tech it.

you dash up to him, and he automatically reacts by pressing A and doing a wake-up attack. however, you anticipate this and wavedash backwards or shield. then you grab him.

i know wat he means, i already edited it, im working on the falco part now

EDIT: skool projects are taking up too much of my free time...i think i'll be finished with the falco part sometime later today though (sept 12th)

Neat guide, I will direct my friend to it. You should make the Falco one soon because I know both a local Fox and Falco player that can benefit from this.

*Updated* not by a whole lot, i still have to 100% finish the falco guide. i also updated the fox part by just a little bit

just like the fox section, im going to break falco's shine into different groups. however, it will be based on wieght

Nice. Definitely take note that Falco's shine can kill vertically if the circumstances are right. After all, his upair usually won't work for that until really high percents.
Althoguh, that is really, really rare.

you left out mr. game and watch :3

You can also shinespike with Falco by ricocheting your opponent off of the bottom of the level. So gosu...

Can't you tech that though? If you somehow anticipate it.

*updated* still more to finish

Also, what about the "shine recover"? You know, when you get hit and start flying off, but if you shine at some point you stop moving? I know the shine slows momentum in the air, but I'm taliking about when you use it instantly and it's so fast and so close that occasionally the other charcter even gets hit by it. I think this can save you from any blow that would normally kill, like a Marth tipper at 150% or something, as long as it's timed correctly

shiva39 said:

Also, what about the "shine recover"? You know, when you get hit and start flying off, but if you shine at some point you stop moving? I know the shine slows momentum in the air, but I'm taliking about when you use it instantly and it's so fast and so close that occasionally the other charcter even gets hit by it. I think this can save you from any blow that would normally kill, like a Marth tipper at 150% or something, as long as it's timed correctly

Click to expand...

that tactic is useless. performing a double jump is just as fast as performing an aerial shine. ppl just think the shine is faster. it's actually better to perform a double jump since the shine makes you fall vertically downwards just a little bit. actually, i have to experiment more with this, but im pretty sure doing a double jump is just as fast as doing a shine (making the shine recover useless).

Another good Tactic for Falco's shine is to
Shine
Jump
Shine
And Spike.
You have to aim But evenr after you do that combo you can rinse and repeat.

7HVN said:

Another good Tactic for Falco's shine is to
Shine
Jump
Shine
And Spike.
You have to aim But evenr after you do that combo you can rinse and repeat.

Click to expand...

yea, that combo isnt really great since the oppenet can easily DI away from it.

You could add some more formal information :

. The shine makes you invincible on the 1st frame of the move
. You can't cancel it in the first 3 frames, nor can it reflect any projectile then
. The shine's hitlag is 3 frame for Fox and 4 frames for Falco
. Turning around in the shine takes 3 frames
. Foxs shine's hitbox is a lot bigger than Falco's (incidentally that's why Falco can hit shielding opponents easier)

It's good to know all of this because that can screw up your timings like nothing else.

wow, i didnt know any of this; i just play the game and watch others play.

The guide is assuming that you tech when you recover. I however try to be unpredictable even when recovering (just thought I'd chuck that out there). Good job with the guide, it's awesome. Thanks, I learned something new, including that thread that Dalal made about the infinite-shine combo.

nicd job with the shine faq of fox it helps to still stick to my char fox even if i had seen others ppl playing better than i thats why u train cuz u saw someone better than u

thx for the faq i actually never use much the shine thats why im noob *sigh* yes a n00b

Good job, FaF. This is going to help my fox game quite a bit. Especially the stuff that Doraki said earlier.

*updated*
with pictures

Shines are tied with Rest for the fastest moves in the game.

It's in superdoodleman's frame data if you don't believe it.

I can waveshine, but I think I'm doing it too slowly. I think this is because I am trying to get my thumb over from the B button over the the X button for my jump in order to waveshine. Should I just keep working at it, or do you guys use the control stick for the infinite waveshine?

i never use the control stick, but it is possible. if you are more comfortable with de control stick, then use it. if not, den just try 2 get better with de x button. you have to get used to moving ur hands quickly. like, at first, i had the same problem. but i kept practicing and now i can quickly move my hand from y to b with no problem. same the with the double shl. it's all about how quick ur hands are n how much practice u put into it.

Wow. It's a shine guide and nowhere once does it mention Fox shinespiking. There's not reall a lot to say about it, but still it's worth at least acknowledging. And I like to nair opponents who tech the shine after falling down. Nair works well from waveshine too, not sure if you put that in.

*updated with shine spike info n more in depth shine grab description*

Thanks for the guide it really helps.

Yea luigi is da illest from dem dam shine combos.Holla at ya boy!

luigi gets ***** from shine spikes though

Is there a sweetspot to fox's shine? sometimes when i shine my friends he shoots downward violently but most times its just the stun and knockback. my question is if theres a place on the chine to get that violent fall.

not that i know of. this has never happened to me but i'll see if it has happened to anyone else.

i use falco and i have to say that the shine is almost a powerfull weapon with the problem that is useless against someone outside the platform... if u want to push him like fox do, u cant, but thats why he have the kick that can send u to hell.... that awsome kick that i always use... jump down+a, no matter how good your opponent is, it always works if you doit fast enough, like shine and low and fastjump doing the kick near the edge.

it is a great tech if you are fast,cause if youre not, you only will miss and kill your self going out the platform very fast. it hapens...turst me!

pillaring is very hard

pillaring is hard at first, yes. if ur falco, get used to the fast fall + l-cancel timing. if ur fox, get the timing of the jc shine after the l-cancel right. if pillar is to hard for you, just simply grab out of ur shine. i mean, pillar is usually used on a shield, right? why not grab the oppenent if they shield ur shine? try it

that´s a pretty good guide but more then n00bies don´t know about it but i do.