o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
I said that in the GD like a good 50pgs back and nobody said anything about it.
/has good ideas that aren't realized >_>
/has good ideas that aren't realized >_>
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
- † King DeDeDe's MetaGame Discussion † -
- Thread starter sMexy-Blu
- Start date
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Wait... that first one WORKS? <_<
I thought Snake/Kirby were special with their 0 lag from air things.... if anyone just can auto-cancel an aerial and hold shield.... ugh.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Really? Kirby can land with 0 lag in a non auto cancel way? By using Snake's gernades?
And even then Susa, Lucario can do it too.
Serin, which one did you propose earlier? The mine or the momentum?
Also, we should get you some recording equipment since you play so different. Could help you get your ideas across to us.
And even then Susa, Lucario can do it too.
Serin, which one did you propose earlier? The mine or the momentum?
Also, we should get you some recording equipment since you play so different. Could help you get your ideas across to us.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I have come to the conclusion that Snake's mine is utterly useless. Beyond what I had previously thought.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Despite you throwing me into your mines 24/7 on wifi, yea, they are pretty **** useless.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
To be honest I just place them and cross my fingers "please waste your invincibility frames blowing up the mine"
:x
If you don't, I normally grab your approach and throw you into it.
/my only use
:x
If you don't, I normally grab your approach and throw you into it.
/my only use
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
@CRASHiC - The momentum cancel thing.
@SuSa - I just blow it up with a waddle. Why waste invinicibility frames?
@SuSa - I just blow it up with a waddle. Why waste invinicibility frames?
SuSa
Banned via Administration
By throwing a waddle, you use up frames.. because you aren't moving.
I think you may also be using up more in some cases.
I think you may also be using up more in some cases.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Why would I waste frames? Throw a waddle at you > If I miss, he walks to the mine > KABOOM > Bye bye mine > Me grabbing you.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
You can destroy the mines before with no punishment because I am perfect shielding, and have the mine protecting me from getting grabbed. If anything, that's the main use for the mine as Snake IMO, use it defensively, not offensively.
The snake can have a mine out behind him, he can see an approach coming, and then he can pull a gernade, jump, land on the mine perfect shielding it, giving himself protection and stopping the approach.
In case you didn't see it on the previous page,
If you auto cancel an aerial, land on a mine and press shield, you will perfect shield the mine.
Also, here is an example of what b reversal on specials can do for your momentum cancel game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6V4HDXpFIo
You won't live as long, but you keep your jump, which is very important against characters who might be able to edge guard us.
The snake can have a mine out behind him, he can see an approach coming, and then he can pull a gernade, jump, land on the mine perfect shielding it, giving himself protection and stopping the approach.
In case you didn't see it on the previous page,
If you auto cancel an aerial, land on a mine and press shield, you will perfect shield the mine.
Also, here is an example of what b reversal on specials can do for your momentum cancel game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6V4HDXpFIo
You won't live as long, but you keep your jump, which is very important against characters who might be able to edge guard us.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Don't forget about the other options we have of blowing up the mine.
1.) Forward tilt.
2.) Dodge roll
3.) When Snake is near, do Inhale to do a glitchy mindgame. Once Snake is near the mine's explosion frames, he'll take the damage, then it'll end.
penguin_and_panda
Smash Apprentice
I have no idea how I did this but when I was just fooling around with Dedede, I just spammed some random buttons and I used a forward smash but just as he lifts his hammer above his head I some how canceled it and used a Ftilt in the other direction. Its kinda like a Fsmash cancel reverse Ftilt.... I dno I may sound like an idiot and my brawl just screwed up....
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Sure the stage didn't transform on you (Pokemon Stadium 1/2, Halberd, Castle Seige, etc.)
It likes to cancel animations.
It likes to cancel animations.
penguin_and_panda
Smash Apprentice
it was FD so it couldn't have
Jupz
Smash Master
Maybe some attack just clipped you and you didn't notice, like a laser or something, stopping the Fsmash animation and you were holding side and a so you immediately did an Ftilt.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ar2M4iiB-g
Something to aid in our platform camping. Shield an attack, drop down immediately and bair.
Though note, you will fast fall, and you will get landing lag.
I can see this working by tempting out a shuttle loop, perfect shielding, then bairing him.
Another use for this as shown by the sonic is autocanceling and then falling through.
Now, as we know, our movement opitions on the ground are very limited.
So what about using this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXXIyk_Fb6M
A run into an uptilt.
Can only be done on platforms, but maybe we could see some use out of it.
Then there is also the other stuff like pivot boost and small pivot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHDWJZBDu9I
Something to aid in our platform camping. Shield an attack, drop down immediately and bair.
Though note, you will fast fall, and you will get landing lag.
I can see this working by tempting out a shuttle loop, perfect shielding, then bairing him.
Another use for this as shown by the sonic is autocanceling and then falling through.
Now, as we know, our movement opitions on the ground are very limited.
So what about using this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXXIyk_Fb6M
A run into an uptilt.
Can only be done on platforms, but maybe we could see some use out of it.
Then there is also the other stuff like pivot boost and small pivot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHDWJZBDu9I
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
There are clearly no explanations on how to do those moves out of a dash so we're left clueless. The closest we've done is walking to an up tilt.
And I believe our weight might be affected by our ability to "pivot boost" and "small pivot" unless if we're walking.
And I believe our weight might be affected by our ability to "pivot boost" and "small pivot" unless if we're walking.
Jupz
Smash Master
These were figured out in the shiek boards a while ago beef. Can't remember how to do the Utilt out of a run but I think you have press down then immediately Utilt or something. I'll look into it.
Technodeath
Smash Champion
i'd assume the input would be very similar to DACUS
Jupz
Smash Master
Nah not really... I'll check tomorrow cause I have way too much homework tonight. I think it was in a sticky on the shiek boards.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
It's just a true pivot. <_<
Japanese call it Naritake Step.
Dash Left, end of dash. Dash right, Dash left, Input attack.
All has to be done really quickly. Samuraipanda found it ages ago. It's at the END of a dash, timing varies. It's pretty hard with DDD and Snake. >.< But I can do it with Marth/Sheik.
Also let it be known that doing tilts is extremely difficult. So don't plan on doing those anytime soon.
Japanese call it Naritake Step.
Dash Left, end of dash. Dash right, Dash left, Input attack.
All has to be done really quickly. Samuraipanda found it ages ago. It's at the END of a dash, timing varies. It's pretty hard with DDD and Snake. >.< But I can do it with Marth/Sheik.
Also let it be known that doing tilts is extremely difficult. So don't plan on doing those anytime soon.
Jupz
Smash Master
How come it can only be done on a platform then?
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I assumed true pivot.. because that lets you up tilt out of a dash =p
Anyways:
I know the first Snake thing. (Tap down, then quickly shield. Like. Sheik DACUS style timing. XD)
I'll figure out the other stuff right now. I assume it's tap down immediately followed by another input.
I'll edit this post when I find out.
Anyways:
I know the first Snake thing. (Tap down, then quickly shield. Like. Sheik DACUS style timing. XD)
I'll figure out the other stuff right now. I assume it's tap down immediately followed by another input.
I'll edit this post when I find out.
Jupz
Smash Master
Ah ok thanks
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Any luck?
10char
Jupz
Smash Master
Researching it now 
T3h Albino
Smash Master
This seems very interesting, also before my wii was taken I was looking into the uses of pivot grab OOS and it's actually pretty useful. Ill post more when i get mah wiizorz back.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
I cant PGOOS ;_; I use wiimote nunchuck...
/stays away from the thread until it shifts to something else.
EDIT: I would like suggest using Inhale to counter an opponent's jump > aerial.
If you recall, think about Beefy's old "Discovery" Thread on Norfair. If you use the same tactic for a stage such as FD or BF, it could stagespike them, or lead to a FF'ed Bair.
/stays away from the thread until it shifts to something else.
EDIT: I would like suggest using Inhale to counter an opponent's jump > aerial.
If you recall, think about Beefy's old "Discovery" Thread on Norfair. If you use the same tactic for a stage such as FD or BF, it could stagespike them, or lead to a FF'ed Bair.
ZEDD
Smash Rookie
I was actually talking to Sky (My crewmate in T.O.A. and one of the more famous smashers on the west coast) the other day about the advancements of high tier character's meta-games, because he wrote a blog about it, and when he referred to Dedede's metagame being almost completely discovered, I gave him my opinion on the subject at hand, and I eventually persuaded him into my belief on Dedede's meta-game.
I stated that it is a general consensus that King Dedede is a defensive character in competitive Brawl, as his forms of approach are sub par to the standards of characters such as Meta-Knight and Marth, thus the Dedede is forced to act in a defensive manner in most of his tournament matches if he or she is to win against a good opponent. And since a defensive characters reacts to what an offensive character does, the offensive character must modify his forms of approaches in order for he or she to be sucessful against a defensive character like Dedede, thus, since the offensive character is always changing his or her meta-game in order to win, the defensive character alters his defensive practices in order to fit his or her needs of countering the opponent's new onslaught of moves, creating a never ending arms race/cycle of progression between the offensive and defensive character, as they build off of each other's meta-games.
Sky was stunned after I said this, but then again we both came to the conclusion that this theory is very general, although it is important to note that meta-games build off of each other, especially as their are distinct play styles in competitive Brawl; selected styles for certain characters and they must act to better the play styles of opposing characters.
I just think it is something that all you guys should have in the back of your head when you talk about a character's meta game, especially for the defensive meta-game that Dedede fits into.
I stated that it is a general consensus that King Dedede is a defensive character in competitive Brawl, as his forms of approach are sub par to the standards of characters such as Meta-Knight and Marth, thus the Dedede is forced to act in a defensive manner in most of his tournament matches if he or she is to win against a good opponent. And since a defensive characters reacts to what an offensive character does, the offensive character must modify his forms of approaches in order for he or she to be sucessful against a defensive character like Dedede, thus, since the offensive character is always changing his or her meta-game in order to win, the defensive character alters his defensive practices in order to fit his or her needs of countering the opponent's new onslaught of moves, creating a never ending arms race/cycle of progression between the offensive and defensive character, as they build off of each other's meta-games.
Sky was stunned after I said this, but then again we both came to the conclusion that this theory is very general, although it is important to note that meta-games build off of each other, especially as their are distinct play styles in competitive Brawl; selected styles for certain characters and they must act to better the play styles of opposing characters.
I just think it is something that all you guys should have in the back of your head when you talk about a character's meta game, especially for the defensive meta-game that Dedede fits into.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
When you apply this to our Metaknight match up, this proves very true.
Jupz
Smash Master
Yeah, also Serin you should either run away a tiny bit then B reverse it on the ground, or short hop a retreating inhale to make sure it beats their spacing.
∫unk
Smash Master
actually nvm no point in sharing
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Guys, can we actually cancel with the ledge on any of our B moves? I have a lot of trouble getting any of them off.