The Phazon Assassin
Smash Champion
I wanted to put this in the Tactical Boards because my questions are mostly based from a competitive standpoint. I'll post it here for now to see other's ideas on this.
OK, these are MY definitions of the following two terms. The community definition may be different, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Infinite-A move, or set of moves, that when done correctly, give the opponent no chance of escape. Also, can be done at absurgly high percentages. Example: Ice Climbers Alternating Grab, Dedede's Standing Chaingrab.
0-Death combo-1. Back in the good old days of Melee, this was a combo that brought your opponent from a fresh 0% to death. But, that's not what I'm getting at.
2. A series of moves very similar to an infinite, however, tends to stop working, either because of space restraints, or damage/knockback restraints. Example: Pikachu's Chaingrab against Fox, Bowser's Grab Release (I need better examples, I don't know if these are actual 0-deaths)
Now, I just have a few questions.
1. Why ban Dedede's Small Step chaingrab?
I can understand banning his Standing Infinite. Even though he can only do it to five people onstage, a couple more at a ledge, the timing is incredibly simple, especially given a 10 frame buffer window. But, his Small Step isn't an infinite. It's not even a 0-death, unless I'm doing it wrong or something. The Ice Climbers can guarantee a kill on any character at no MORE than 150%. Pikachu can Usmash, which MAY KO Fox, if not, Pikachu can just follow DI and Thunder. Dedede only has two "kill" options, Dtilt and Fthrow, both of which can be DI'ed and survived at over 200% (given the people he can do this against, mind you).
Also, we allow 0-Death combos, so why doesn't Dedede get similar treatment? His "combo" doesn't even guarantee a kill.
2. Why ban every other infinite, but allow the Ice Climbers ALL of theirs?
Yes, chain grabbing is a big part of their metagame. Hell, that IS their metagame. Get a grab, take a stock. And, on top of that, there are hardly any other true infinites in this game. There's Jab/Tilt/Laser locks, but those are VERY situational, and not really infinites, unless done against a wall.
Hmmmm, as I was typing this, I realized that, really, only the Ice Climbers and Dedede have infinites. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. I thing the "Any and all infinites are banned, including, but not limited to, Dedede's Standing Chaingrab" should be re-worded at least. Don't ban infinites if the Ice Climbers can do theirs. (Yes, I'm nitpicking. I hate the Icey's chaingrab, but that's another discussion)
3. In a 2v1 situation, a grab release "combo" into another grab is an infinite, right?
We've all seen it somewhere. I'm sure most of you have done it. Even I'm guilty of it. You grab someone, your opponent breaks free, your teammate grabs him, he breaks free again, 37 pummels later, someone charges an Usmash and kills the solitary player. Why do we allow this? A 2v1 situation =/= grab release death, or it shouldn't at least. Personally, I think we should eliminate it completely. There are several solutions though:
1: Get rid of it completely.
2: Limit it's number of consecutive uses.
3: Limit it to a set damage percentage.
4. Limit it based on opponents damage percentage.
5. Leave it be.
........this has poll written all over it.
Anyway, the "1" in a 2v1 should have a fair shot at pulling of an insane comeback. We gotta make Brawl exciting somehow, right?
Well, I think I'm done now. I'm looking forward to hearing some thoughts on these topics.
MAN, typing on Wiinet builds up an appitite. I'm gonna make a bowl of cereal.
And methinks I spelled "appitite" wrong.
OK, these are MY definitions of the following two terms. The community definition may be different, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Infinite-A move, or set of moves, that when done correctly, give the opponent no chance of escape. Also, can be done at absurgly high percentages. Example: Ice Climbers Alternating Grab, Dedede's Standing Chaingrab.
0-Death combo-1. Back in the good old days of Melee, this was a combo that brought your opponent from a fresh 0% to death. But, that's not what I'm getting at.
2. A series of moves very similar to an infinite, however, tends to stop working, either because of space restraints, or damage/knockback restraints. Example: Pikachu's Chaingrab against Fox, Bowser's Grab Release (I need better examples, I don't know if these are actual 0-deaths)
Now, I just have a few questions.
1. Why ban Dedede's Small Step chaingrab?
I can understand banning his Standing Infinite. Even though he can only do it to five people onstage, a couple more at a ledge, the timing is incredibly simple, especially given a 10 frame buffer window. But, his Small Step isn't an infinite. It's not even a 0-death, unless I'm doing it wrong or something. The Ice Climbers can guarantee a kill on any character at no MORE than 150%. Pikachu can Usmash, which MAY KO Fox, if not, Pikachu can just follow DI and Thunder. Dedede only has two "kill" options, Dtilt and Fthrow, both of which can be DI'ed and survived at over 200% (given the people he can do this against, mind you).
Also, we allow 0-Death combos, so why doesn't Dedede get similar treatment? His "combo" doesn't even guarantee a kill.
2. Why ban every other infinite, but allow the Ice Climbers ALL of theirs?
Yes, chain grabbing is a big part of their metagame. Hell, that IS their metagame. Get a grab, take a stock. And, on top of that, there are hardly any other true infinites in this game. There's Jab/Tilt/Laser locks, but those are VERY situational, and not really infinites, unless done against a wall.
Hmmmm, as I was typing this, I realized that, really, only the Ice Climbers and Dedede have infinites. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. I thing the "Any and all infinites are banned, including, but not limited to, Dedede's Standing Chaingrab" should be re-worded at least. Don't ban infinites if the Ice Climbers can do theirs. (Yes, I'm nitpicking. I hate the Icey's chaingrab, but that's another discussion)
3. In a 2v1 situation, a grab release "combo" into another grab is an infinite, right?
We've all seen it somewhere. I'm sure most of you have done it. Even I'm guilty of it. You grab someone, your opponent breaks free, your teammate grabs him, he breaks free again, 37 pummels later, someone charges an Usmash and kills the solitary player. Why do we allow this? A 2v1 situation =/= grab release death, or it shouldn't at least. Personally, I think we should eliminate it completely. There are several solutions though:
1: Get rid of it completely.
2: Limit it's number of consecutive uses.
3: Limit it to a set damage percentage.
4. Limit it based on opponents damage percentage.
5. Leave it be.
........this has poll written all over it.
Anyway, the "1" in a 2v1 should have a fair shot at pulling of an insane comeback. We gotta make Brawl exciting somehow, right?
Well, I think I'm done now. I'm looking forward to hearing some thoughts on these topics.
MAN, typing on Wiinet builds up an appitite. I'm gonna make a bowl of cereal.
And methinks I spelled "appitite" wrong.