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Guide (100% Complete) Doc. vs. the World (of Nintendo) - A Character Matchup Guide

forkgirl

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
1,166
Location
San Antonio, TX
lol i suppose. its something i kind of fall back on when i don't feel confident enough to run off and bair/nair/fair.

alright *wont use chain at all during pound!!* >.> or will i... =P
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
Location
Atlanta, Ga
The darton dair huh? Lawlz, he doesn't even do that anymore either.

To much text I'll read more of it later.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
lol i suppose. its something i kind of fall back on when i don't feel confident enough to run off and bair/nair/fair.

alright *wont use chain at all during pound!!* >.> or will i... =P
I'm sorry I cged you in crews :(

Can we be friends? :) And play Sheik dittos? :)
 

Vulcan55

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
1,824
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May-Lay
I made organized html files of this.
You can like, pick which character you want. Then you can click which section to skip to.
 

HammerBro123

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
51
Location
Rochester,Newyork
i hate his f smash it has **** range but it can kill if it had better i would be willing to play him again i just cant deal with some of his attacks
 

GH4D

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
28
Why do people get so mad playing against docs when he's not even top tier?
 

St. Viers

Smash Champion
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
2,409
Location
Boston MA
mainly it's the cape edgeguards.

I'm 100% serious. If you gimp a marth w/ that, they will flip out at you, because "no one" can cape marth's up-B when he goes low...ever
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,917
It's like he started typing and then never stopped.

Fantastic stuff; will read Sheik and Puff when I get a chance to.
 

mallu000

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
64
Location
Finland
There's no need for Doc boards after this. It's kind like reading for a maths test when you read&learn these guides.
 

SmashMac

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
1,388
Location
Naples, FL.
Wow. Great job Dogy this guide looks golden. I haven't read through everything yet but from what I have it's amazing.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
Believe it or not, Doc's u.smash trades with or beats a lot of Jiggs aerials. It also tacks on a lot of percent and can kill her at reasonably low percents.

I find running u.smash in conjunction with pill baiting to be really effective vs Jiggles.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Yeah don't drop doc. Plus we don't need to edgeguard jiggs.

I love the jiggs MU. I mean ME as a doc, I LOVE to gimp but with jiggs I camp her as much as I can (meaning safely not near the edge or something) and punnnch. Although cape is nice against her, use it sometime. Might avoid an areial.
 

1048576

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
3,417
Cape > Peach. Stuffs her turnips and ruins her float approach. A grounded Peach is easy to deal with.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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SW-0654 7794 0698
Yeah and why not just catch it either? I've caught a few stitches in teams matches and USED them xD

But cape is good sparingly. : ] But I hear Peaches could catch on and bait us to cape.
 

tuPh-wUn

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4
Doc's Nair isn't all that much like Fox's.
If you approach Marth with Nairs can't you just get jabbed?
 

SmashMac

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
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Naples, FL.
I've added a bit more Marth information and will probably look over this guide a bit more to add some new stuff (and hopefully not take anything out). Thanks for pointing out that Doc's nair isn't like Fox's. They're completely different. Doc's gets stronger over-time, unlike any other nair in the game which, in all honesty, is huge enough to separate his nair from any other character's in the game. Fox's is usually used for spacing. With Doc. you could use it for shield spacing (passing through opponents shield, which is what I was explaining in the Doc. vs. Marth matchup). It works for Doc. vs. a lot of characters that will grab vs. him too (I.E., Ganon, Marth, Doc., etc.)
 

onionchowder

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
346
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Chicago / San Diego
Great guide, very thorough, although I don't think you need to say that Dtilt is a useless move in every matchup.

Why don't you add matchup ratios? I'm not a fan of hard numbers, but a relative approximation as to how Doc does vs. certain characters would be helpful. I'm a Falco main who secondaries Doc, and it'd be nice to know what matchups in particular are worth learning.
 

SmashMac

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Naples, FL.
Great guide, very thorough, although I don't think you need to say that Dtilt is a useless move in every matchup.

Why don't you add matchup ratios? I'm not a fan of hard numbers, but a relative approximation as to how Doc does vs. certain characters would be helpful. I'm a Falco main who secondaries Doc, and it'd be nice to know what matchups in particular are worth learning.
Thanks for the idea of ratios. And you're right d-tilt isn't useless in every match. It's been a while since I've read through this guide again and seen what I could add to it. Dtilt is actually helpful vs. Ganon/CF, Spacies, etc. to help setup for gimps.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
This guide is definitely chalk full of relevant information. Is it a lil outdated? Maybe, Dogy hasn't played in a long time, and even at the point and time of writing this he had barely been playing iirc. Still, it is a great starting point, and shroomed plans on creating a new updated write up on Doc's matchups before Apex, so just be patient.

Most matchup numbers are ******** in the first place.
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
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Kirkland, Washington
I'm just in a decision where I'm trying to decide when to use Doc and when to use Sheik. Right now I play Doc against (out of mid tier+) Spacies, Jiggs, and ICs. I'm trying to figure out if I'm actually gimping myself by doing this or if those matchups are similar/better for Doc like I think they are.
 

Max?

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Most people would argue that Sheik does better against those character simply because she is a better character. They are not that far from the truth, but you have to acknowledge that not a lot of people have good Doc practice and you can get away with stuff that normally shouldn't work vs. an experienced opponent who has Doc practice under his belt.

A lot of people in the community are under the impression Jiggs ***** Sheik and Climbers have an even or better matchup against her. Imo Doc has near 50/50(+/-) matchups against both characters. Sheik almost definitely does better vs. the spacies, but once again, not a lot of good Doc's out there, and there a ton of Sheik's, so spacies will have a harder time vs. a good Doc over a Sheik of a similar skill level.
 

DerfMidWest

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Slippi.gg
SOFA#941
Sorry for the bump, but I noticed that some of this information is wrong-ish:

And because Pichu has a good recovery, he also has a decent edgeguard vs Doc. If you haven’t understood this yet, understand that Doc’s recovery is terrible, so he doesn’t get ANYTHING free. Even though it’s Pichu, in the event that you wind up off the stage, you can’t be predictable.

Pills aren’t failproof, he can nair through them. You can’t take the low road all times, you’re liable to get thunder jolted, and heaven forbid if you don’t want to sweetspot. That’s asking for F.smash and thunder.
Pichu's whole game is pretty much just trying to gimp you. His edgeguarding isn't bad. What I've noticed is that a lot of pichu's standard edgeguard stuff (tilts and things) won't work sometimes because of Doc's silly upB hitbox, but when he is at low percent he can CC dtilt -> crap. so you should watch out for that (the one time that you actually play against a pichu).
You don't really want to be under the stage at all. Doc is kinda slow in the air and If the pichu is smart he will send some jolts around the side of the stage (those will kill you if they hit you) or he will send a thunder down right in front of the ledge (this prevents you from sweetspotting it), then he'll nair you or something.
He can also ledgedrop -> nair/dair/fair and it will kill you (he will be able to make it back always).

If you try to recover high, you can be doraki-thundered (Pichu can do this on like every stage, but me and ICG are the only two Pichus who do this though). This usually will just get you a little percent, but it sometimes will set up stuff for him.


Pichu’s Quick Attack: Same applies for Pikachu. When Pichu does quick attack, at the point where he can input a 2nd command, he scrunches up (to do the 2nd attack). During this time, his hitbox stretches to double the length. Because of this, Pichu cannot sweetspot the ledge from below, because he’s scrunch and poke his head over it. Caping this is free.
this is true, but you won't get a free cape if the Pichu is smart at all (Unless its Battlefield). Pichu can do the first part of his agility (so that it falls short of the ledge), then slightly angle the second and it will flip him up into the ledge (I believe that this won't work for pika though). But you can pull some stupid stuff on Battlefield and Pichu will have a little more trouble gimping you there, however he is mobile as hell on BF, so the matchup kinda depends on how the Pichu plays.


sorry for bumping this, I know that nobody really cares about the Pichu matchup, but Idk, maybe this will help you that one time you actually do run into a Pichu player :\
not trying to contradict the OP, its a very good guide, just puting in my own input.

also... why would he thunder OoS <_<
there is like... never a situation in which I see that being useful.
Jolt OoS maybe. In all likely hood, if you attack his shield, he's gonna Usmash you (Pichu, unlike pika, has a strong usmash behind him, so you aren't safe there)
 

VGmasta

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Apr 6, 2008
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West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Yeah AesirGod, no need to be apologetic, every little bit helps. And you seem like you know Pichu really well. And besides, the rest of this Doc thread is pretty slow right now anyway. I haven't noticed anything poppin' up in here for at least a month now.
 
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