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35 character roster & questions. . . something seems odd.

Demoncannon

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
540
Location
U.K. London
Hi everyone, as we all are aware, SMYN told us about the 35 character roster and the information around it. With many people agreeing with this, it is getting many peoples' hopes down. Even the believable leakers from other boards have agreeing on the same reason.

However i know i maybe speculating here but can i quickly quote Sakurai here? Way back i remember him saying something like 'More characters than you can imagine'. This was also mentioned on SMYN a long time ago. Possibly between episode 11 - 17, i cannot confirm which SMYN episode did state that there will be more characters than you can imagine.

Honestly 35? that wasn't what i was planning on seeing, Many can agree 35 characters seem
. . . weak, after 7 years playing melee and hoping for a new game they should have a load more.

Smash Bros 64 had a total of 12 characters

Smash Bros Melee had a total of 25 characters

Smash Bros Brawl has 35 characters?

From here the amount of characters doubled from 64 to melee, why cant they do the same for Brawl? 52 characters would be a much better amount. Plus this would give the players a much bigger selection and chance to have their wanted character in.

The rest of this questioning is from SMYN ep 30. The list on who was confirmed in by the believable leakers.

Wolf in, Krystal out?
I understand that Wolf has been in Starfox since day 1 and should be in Brawl, however as it was discussed he better have a different moveset. I will not stand to hear Krystal is out, Sakurai himself said he wanted more female fighters in Brawl and Krystal is a perfect addition to the game. The staff will be the core of her moveset and also she is hot. What you you prefer? A dark fox wannabe or a blue female fox who brought some life to fox's games again.

Marth, Falco, Game & watch return?
I personally not fussed if they return. . . well maybe G&W, in my eyes, they should keep all the characters from melee (minus pichu & G&W) and also add the new fighters. Marth was quite good, i wasn't really a fan of him, i was more of a Roy liker myself. Falco was ok, he did usually get on my nerves time to time but it wasn't major. G&W was pretty annoying to say the least, he was retro to the max but he was a good wtf character.

Mewtwo replaced by Lucario?
Well we all had our thoughts and hope on this, i liked Mewtwo but the series 1 pokemon cast is really wearing out. Jigglypuff was added to 64 due to her constant appearances that she made during season 1. Both Lucario and Mewtwo have been involved with Pokemon movies, both have involved Mew, Mewtwo was in two movies if people didn't know. Lucario and Mewtwo are one in the same really, both have a orb attack, (shadow ball vs aura ball). I haven't been up to speed with pokemon recently, last pokemon game i have was sapphire, until it was stolen. ¬_¬

Cell shaded Link in?
Please no, that is all i will say, NO! I HATE cell shaded link, he looks terrible and would ruin such a good game if he is as he is. Why have another link? One is good enough, one link thats all, Zelda/sheik, Ganondolf are enough for the franchise with Link.

Possible WTF characters
This little bit is what i personally think would be a wtf characters, i'll list 7 characters and you can discuss whether or not that would be good.

Banjo-Kazooie:
In preparation of Banjo-Kazooie 3 on the 360, the loveable bear and bird combo would make a brilliant addition, with such classic moves like the golden feather shield used by kazooie, you cant go wrong.

Conker:
Remember this lil furry guy? Sure you can, he was from Diddy Kong racing and his own game Conker's bad fur day. He would be an interesting playable character wouldn't he? With his kart and soldier skills, he would be quite funny.

Dante:
The main character in the Devil May Cry series, the capcom character. If you can't get megaman then have Dante, with his sword & his bad *** colors then he would be good.

Zack and Wiki:
The pirate and monkey combo, they will get a huge chance if Cell shaded link is confirmed. Using his humor and pirate skills, can he really steal the 3rd 3rd party spot?

Has the new skills confirmed Knuckles?
What Youko, Samurai panda and Cyberlink420 said about the 'wall cling' & 'gliding' techniques, this has surely confirmed Knuckles. The knuckle-headed echidna who is a pure fist fighters. He would make a great character and also would confirm that even 3rd party characters may get another slot. If Knuckles was in brawl, i can see loads of people maining him *right youko and Samurai Panda hehe* It would seem odd to have these techniques without an actual character who is so well fitted to him, knuckles would be the 'wing less' glider is brawl and would be just great. More evidence that increases Knuckles' chance was from the Angel Island Music update on Xmas day. He actually said 'where we meet knuckles' at the end of that update. Surely you don't go out of your way to mention Knuckles unless he is in.

Final days till release, what will happen to the DOJO?
Yes this Thursday is the release of Brawl in japan and i must say it will be massive, the news will be everywhere faster than sonic saying 'your too slow'. I wonder if it will still get updated even after release? Most likely it wont which will be a massive shame, but then again you shouldn't ask for too much.

E.U./AUS Release date
No its still not confirmed yet sadly ¬_¬ however after comparing the time gap it took melee to reach us from the U.S was appalling. They got melee Dec 3rd, we got it May 24th and Australia got it May 31st. WHY a 5 MONTH GAP?! However getting Smash 64 over in the E.U was worse, US got smash 64 on April 26th, E.U. got Smah 64 on Nov 19th... 7 months wait.

From this i can see that Brawl will be out by June 30th in the E.U. and Australia will get it July 7th. A 3 month wait for E.U. and a 4 month wait for Australia.

I got June 30th from the date difference between melee, forget about the months for a second and notice that there is a difference of 21.

That is all thanks, i know this will cause a big debate but no flame wars ok!
 

Tyrael64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Messages
357
Location
Californiia, USA
1. Personally, I actually prefer Wolf. Krystal did not "breathe new life" into Star Fox, she's one of the things that killed it. The only games she's been in have all been WORSE than the previous Star Fox games. I doubt that's a coincidence.

2. Mewtwo and Lucario are not at all the same. Lucario is a Fighting-type, while Mewtwo is Psychic. Get your info straight. So they both have orb attacks, woohoo. Ike and Link both have sword attacks, does this mean Ike is replacing Link? Not a chance.

3. Bajo-Kazooie is owned by Rare, which is owned by Microsoft, which is not in any way affiliated with Brawl.

4. Conker is owned by Rare, which is owned by Microsoft, which is not in any way affiliated with Brawl.

5. Aside from being too serious (not to mention too emo) to fit in Brawl, Dante is owned by Capcom, who are also not affiliated with Brawl.

6. How on earth are Zack and Wiki's chances boosted by Wind Waker Link?
 

dr_awesome

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
91
holy crap... this thread is full of fail... Are you honestly serious about Knuckles being confirmed because of wall clinging and gliding?

also, I think Rare and Nintendo are at their wits end with one another I don't see Banjo Kazooie happening.

One last thing. Game & Watch will never die. I will be a Game & Watch user til the day I die.
 

Brawler Lime

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
53
Location
Melbourne, Victoria (Australia)
im pretty sure there will be no more sonic characters, as the video leak with lucario and ness and jigglypuff, had the sonic sticker on it, and sonic was the only one.
Well, i hope we (australia) get the game earlier, i think june may be possible, as its a popular game, and those games generally come out sooner eg. Pokemon DP came out in the U.S. on April something, and in Australia on June 21st.
Oh and im not jumping the gun and saying oz will get brawl before europe, but we might, because its started to happen more recently (think the ds lite, oz got it before the us even).
So those are my thoughts.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Dante is emo? i must have played other Devil May Cry games then.
 

dr_awesome

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
91
Are you kidding? Dante is like the emo kid game icon. I don't know a single one that doesn't drool over DMC
 

Demoncannon

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
540
Location
U.K. London
1. Zack and Wiki are cell shaded, so is wink waker link. . . gives you a hint,
2. Remember i siad i am not fully up to date with the most recent pokemon game.
3. Rare has had games with Nintendo before, just because Microsoft own it doesn't count them out.
4. Its only a possible confirmation for Knuckles due to new and interesting techniques.
5. G&W may not die, who knows? He may live on forever, but he will get forgotten along those lines.
6. Capcom have made the megaman games and also the loved Phoenix wright games in partnership with Nintendo.
7. I see your sarcasm Tyrael64 but Ike is a doubled hand sword fighter, Link is shield and sword. Both very different and from different series.
 

Novus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
106
Location
Maryland
"From here the amount of characters doubled from 64 to melee, why cant they do the same for Brawl?"

1) They did it unintentionally.
2) Going from 2 to 4 is not comparable with going from 4 to 8.
3) Your opinion doesn't really matter.
 

Rakath

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
643
On the StarFox cast:
The way I see it if StarFox gets 3 (which is likely) one will be Krystal. Why will one be Krystal? Because she's different. I'm not saying she's good for the SF games, or good for the SF series as a whole, but she has the easiest and best opening for a unique moveset for StarFox cast. Fox + Decloned Falco + Wolf (who would need to be Fox and Falco like without being a clone) is a bit hard to swallow. Also Krystal has more love than Wolf.

On Marth and G&W:
Marth is the ORIGINAL FIRE EMBLEM LORD. There are very few reasons to cut him.
G&W is the ORIGINAL NINTENDO HANDHELD CHARACTER. There is even LESS reason to cut him.
Falco nobody cares about. So long as SF gets 2-3 reps.

WTF cast:
Nobody WTFs more than Game and Watch, I personally see few choices for WTF joke cast past him without really stretching it... and so much of the game is crazy as is, don't see a need for it.

Mewtwo and WindWaker Link:
Pokemon could easily be a 5 man cast... but losing Mewtwo would be understandable. However Lucario would by no means be a replacement, just a new character.
There is no reason to leave him out, except putting in Vaati. You gots issues, especially saying Legend of Zelda would be properly repped by only 3 characters.

Knuckles:
I so wish that was true... but that's really reachin'...
 

Demoncannon

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
540
Location
U.K. London
... a opinion is better than a false leak, just because i gave a personal idea, there is no need to be rude. (aimed at Novus).
 

Muffin_man

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
376
1. Personally, I actually prefer Wolf. Krystal did not "breathe new life" into Star Fox, she's one of the things that killed it. The only games she's been in have all been WORSE than the previous Star Fox games. I doubt that's a coincidence.
Nothing at all to do with them simply being poorly made? (Or in Adventure's scenario, not even made with the original intention of being a SF game until the later half of development.)
 

dr_awesome

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
91
hey, man, by posting you've basically set yourself in front of the firing squad. Thus is the true face of anonymity.
 

iluvnintendo1983

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
217
Location
Washington State
Nothing at all to do with them simply being poorly made? (Or in Adventure's scenario, not even made with the original intention of being a SF game until the later half of development.)
That's right. In fact, Krystal was originally going to be the main playable character of Star Fox Adventures (which was originally called Dinosaur Planet before they changed it over to the Star Fox universe).
 

Serph

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
209
Location
England
I love the way people draw direct comparisons between Mewtwo and Lucario based soley on the fact that they can both use a sphere/orb move of some kind.

They are NOTHING alike. And if Mewtwo has been cut then Sakurai fails. I don't care how much good he's done in the game. There's simply no good reason to cut only one of the non-clone veteran characters. If we can have 35 without him then we can have 36 with him.
 

Grevling

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
32
Location
KY
...Wow. Just... wow. Not only did you comment on how hot a digital fox is, you also made some of the most idiotic points ever brought up about this game (and that is saying A LOT). Well done sir.
 

Brawler Lime

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
53
Location
Melbourne, Victoria (Australia)
I like Lucario better than Mewtwo. And officially, Mewtwo was a clone, according to the Nintendo Stratergy Guide, he is a clone of Samus (the only move i see is his standard B, but his up B is almost the same as zeldas).
If mewtwo is cut, the game will be good anyway. One character cant make all that difference to the game, can it. I mean, protaganists (Mario Link Kirby Pikachu etc) cant be cut, because of their appearance in all the games of the series.
BK and Conker are terrible ideas.
Just. So. Terrible. *shudders*
 

Rakath

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
643
Chargable savable Special Projectile: Check
Spamable Forward Special Projectile: No...
Bomb-Jumping Down Special: No...
Spinny Recovery Special: No...
Short Fast Forward Smash: Check
Spinny Kick Down Smash: No...
Flamethrower Up Smash: No...
S3X kick: No...

I'm not seeing the Samus - Mewtwo connection, at all...
 

Brawler Lime

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
53
Location
Melbourne, Victoria (Australia)
Chargable savable Special Projectile: Check
Spamable Forward Special Projectile: No...
Bomb-Jumping Down Special: No...
Spinny Recovery Special: No...
Short Fast Forward Smash: Check
Spinny Kick Down Smash: No...
Flamethrower Up Smash: No...
S3X kick: No...

I'm not seeing the Samus - Mewtwo connection, at all...
I said i couldnt see it either, im just going by my guide book. Maybe it wasnt official, it was Nintendo Solutions or something.
 

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
2,049
Location
San Diego, CA
You're forgetting that a lot of characters in Melee were clones. So if you remove the clones (Pichu, Young Link, Ganondorf, Falco, Dr. Mario, Roy), that's 19 unique characters, an increase of 7 unique characters, so by that pattern an increase of 7 unique characters for Brawl. Also, Sakurai said he'd want to cut down on clones for Brawl, so we can only assume that many clones are gone (I'll try to be realistic and say that there are two clones).

19 + 2 + 7 = 28. But if the 35 thing is true, that's around 14 unique characters. That ain't too shabby I think.
 

Demoncannon

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
540
Location
U.K. London
True enough, you do make a point. . . but still that quote 'More Characters than you can imagine' if you have this quote and compare it to 35 characters. It would seem lacking, so if we say about 40-45 characters is ideal.
 

Rakath

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
643
DRaGZ: The issue then is the 35 lists choice of cuts -
Doc
Pichu
Roy
Mewtwo

So, the choice is to cut a unique and 3 clones, less sense here than cutting all 6 clones.
 

Serph

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
209
Location
England
I like Lucario better than Mewtwo. And officially, Mewtwo was a clone, according to the Nintendo Stratergy Guide, he is a clone of Samus (the only move i see is his standard B, but his up B is almost the same as zeldas).
If mewtwo is cut, the game will be good anyway. One character cant make all that difference to the game, can it. I mean, protaganists (Mario Link Kirby Pikachu etc) cant be cut, because of their appearance in all the games of the series.
BK and Conker are terrible ideas.
Just. So. Terrible. *shudders*
Well they were wrong, because Mewtwo wasn't a Samus clone. Only characters who slightly hang over the edge of the row are clones, signifying that they're a variant of the character next to them. Besides, 'charge ball' move aside, they're absolutely nothing alike.

Removing Mewtwo puts a black mark beside the game's name, because there's simply no need to remove him.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
True enough, you do make a point. . . but still that quote 'More Characters than you can imagine' if you have this quote and compare it to 35 characters. It would seem lacking, so if we say about 40-45 characters is ideal.
Remember, people have different perspectives on what's big and what's small. Sakurai could think that 35 characters is huge where as you might think it is small. Does this matter? Yes, yes it does when we are predicting the size of the roster. What seems more likely? 35 or 52?... 35. 52 is the least likely size, you'd be crazy to fathom that number with the time they had. The time they had wasn't just spent on characters, they did other modes including SSE. They want this game to the best it can be, not just be Melee 2.0. If they wanted to do that, they would've gone with their plan B (making Melee online for Wii with new characters and stages).

So, no, we won't have 52 characters. Hell, I doubt we'll even get 40. 35 sounds right to me.
 

Demoncannon

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
540
Location
U.K. London
I can see what you mean and fair play i agree with you now what you mentioned. This is why i opened and started this topic, people discussing the issues and making valid and reasonable points that help make things easier to understand.
 

mezbomber

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Mankato
I'm still gonna run the risk of believing other characters will have alt costumes like Wario. It seems like an efficient way to still include clones in the final roster of this game. I really appreciate the clones in melee. It may seem unoriginal, but the subtle differences are enough for me to enjoy playing with the same moveset but with different intentions and style. CLONES FOR BRAWL!!!
 

icestormganon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
14
Location
Near Ithaca, NY
So, no, we won't have 52 characters. Hell, I doubt we'll even get 40. 35 sounds right to me.
Just using you as an example...

How can 35 seem right to you when the majority of characters that you have to unlock are vets? It just seems so stupid that one can guess the majority of the lock-ups for a 35 roster.

Meh, but these game creators don't seem to follow logic, I guess.
 

Rakath

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
643
Remember, people have different perspectives on what's big and what's small. Sakurai could think that 35 characters is huge where as you might think it is small. Does this matter? Yes, yes it does when we are predicting the size of the roster. What seems more likely? 35 or 52?... 35. 52 is the least likely size, you'd be crazy to fathom that number with the time they had. The time they had wasn't just spent on characters, they did other modes including SSE. They want this game to the best it can be, not just be Melee 2.0. If they wanted to do that, they would've gone with their plan B (making Melee online for Wii with new characters and stages).

So, no, we won't have 52 characters. Hell, I doubt we'll even get 40. 35 sounds right to me.
23 is the least likely size without being naturally impossible. 52 is highly unlikely, but not least likely. Now, given they've had about 2-3 years at least to work on this, 35 is a totally plausable roster... unless they randomly remove finished unique characters, which is stupid, and naturally proves they have room for a 36th character. So now 36 is a more plausable roster than 35. Making 35 less plausable. Now, with this 36 roster we have Nintendo's Flagship franchise with less cast than another franchise, this cannot do, so now 37 is more likely. And now 35 is even LESS likely.

Now, having Metroid as the only continued series without a new selectable character, putting her in the ranks with Captain Falcon and the Ice Climbers, is insulting to that series, given that it had so many (stupid) characters on the Sakurai list, and a well ranked character on the Sakurai list. So even if Ridley isn't in, Metroid is getting another rep (38).

Hey look, 38 reps. I'm certain it will take work to give two of them full movesets, but they are getting paid to do work. Now, you talk about how hard the work would be, but support a list theory that involves THROWING AWAY already done work. Even taking into account the physics engine shift, the skelletal models and animations from Mewtwo's attacks would be wasted just being tossed out with his character, it would be infinitely easier to tweak him into a Brawler than start a character from scratch.

Also take into account that some of the models were done by other companies for Brawl (Zelda cast for instance), thats more work that Brawl doesn't have to have done. The Pokemon have animation models of their own from PBR, which can also be used. You give the people programming way too little credit for being able to work on making the game. Only one of the Melee cast has had a sizable skelletal change (Mario's F.L.U.D.D), there is no reason to think that 12-18 characters can't be hashed out as playable if some of the models were outsourced...
 

SuperLink9

Smash Lord
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Jun 27, 2007
Messages
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NNID
SuperLink9
These are just your opinions, while some things in there are odd, things like WW Link and Knuckles are not, Knuckles won't be playable, bet your opening post on it. WW Link being "terrible" is only an opinion of yours.

I agree about Krystal though, although I despise her, I would definitely prefer to see more female characters in Brawl.

And I disagree about Lucario "replacing" Mewtwo. They are nothing alike. Nothing. Just their anthropormorphic shapes. Lucario will NEVER specialise or be a good user of psychic type moves, and Mewtwo will NEVER specialise or be a good user of fighting/steel type moves. They are polar opposites, one of the reasons people want Mewtwo to stay, and wanting Lucario in the first place, was to see Mewtwo VS Lucario.
 

Demoncannon

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
540
Location
U.K. London
Well as well already know 28 characters have been confirmed (2 being transformations *sheik and Z.S.samus*). If it was a total of 35, only 7 characters to be updated
Captain Falcon
Luigi
Ganondolf
Marth
G&W?
Falco
and another newcomer

I doubt it, i know Falcon, Luigi and Ganondolf will return, but seriously 35 is lacking, we will get about 45 max. I can see that happening.
 

Hoboman725

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
262
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Hempstead, NY
I don't know what to think of this. you say something stupid like "I hate cell shaded link" and then say something genius like "Banjo-Kazooie should be in brawl".
 

Demoncannon

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
540
Location
U.K. London
... how can mentioning Knuckles killed this thread? If you dont like it then ignore it. But surely you could have more details and stuff. I am not a fan of WW link so that is why i said it looks terrible. Also Banjo Kazooie, I can see them in because Banjo Kazooie was unique to Nintendo, so they will get a right into Brawl even if owned Rare who are owned by Microsoft.
 

SuperLink9

Smash Lord
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England
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SuperLink9
You know 35 characters means 35 base characters. Meaning transformations not included. We know 26 base characters, and then there are 9 left to make 35.
 

Malificent

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
167
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Are you kidding? Dante is like the emo kid game icon. I don't know a single one that doesn't drool over DMC
lol, I am guessing you have never followed the story line and/or have gone into it with great detail.

So I announce this statement. EPIC FAIL!

#learn-a-game (Before you criticize in public)
 

bluethree

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
420
Location
Near Philly
Krystal is a perfect addition to the game. The staff will be the core of her moveset and also she is hot.
This is where you lost me. GTFO fur***.

Also Banjo Kazooie, I can see them in because Banjo Kazooie was unique to Nintendo, so they will get a right into Brawl even if owned Rare who are owned by Microsoft.
Use common sense. Rare is owned by a direct competitor to Nintendo. Microsoft would never do something to help out Nintendo as long as both are in the console wars and vice versa.
 

TheDuplexDuo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
323
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MerryOl'England
Personally... I really don't care so much who comes back to Brawl. My first thoughts where that Mewtwo ought to really get the kick, as with Ness...

However it was never really the actual characters I hated. It was the fact they played so bad (I'm a Pichu user...there that bad). As long as all challengers come back refreshed and new, I'm not so concerned.

@ Blue3- Banjo could be in the game, Nintendo do share some rights. You forget having Banjo in this game does not only help Nintendo but Microsoft also if they wish to revive the series. But yeah... I agree and will eat my hat if he does worm his way back to Nintendo.

*Happy Happy Happy Dance!*
:bee:
 
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