Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Lord Dio]

Geez, Mega Man fell 11 places. The Mega Man discord is going insane lmao

I’m not sure that he’s that low but does anyone else have any ideas as to why he’s been underperforming lately?

I can't remember the last time we saw kameme in the latter half of the year. Civil War maybe?
We saw him at frostbite, but still......he needs rep again.

*Toon Link is sandwiched in between DK and Bowser - Odd...

I'd actually like to inquire about how this came to be and what reasons there may be for it.

 

[Deleted member]

Konban wa...Grandma Shizuka here. Pretty elated to see my girls and especially moving up in the world.

Just out of curiosity: where are in the list? The previous three tier lists had a position for each of their 1111 setups, so one would think this would also be case for this one.

 

[|RK|]

On a note separate from any of my characters... I feel like people are too afraid to alter the top tier. I feel that Mario, Marth, and Ryu haven't really done much of worth to validate remaining in top tier. Ryu especially, but I feel like all three of them could fall to the next tier.

 

[Aegislasher]

Geez, Mega Man fell 11 places. The Mega Man discord is going insane lmao

I’m not sure that he’s that low but does anyone else have any ideas as to why he’s been underperforming lately?

Mega Man hasn't done much significant recently to my knowledge. Kameme has been going Shiek a lot more and I don't know what Scatt has been doing this whole time. I think it makes sense that he would drop considering his two best mains either don't compete or haven't placed well in the last few months. Not saying he is over ranked but results do play a part in making the list.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

Geez, Mega Man fell 11 places. The Mega Man discord is going insane lmao

I’m not sure that he’s that low but does anyone else have any ideas as to why he’s been underperforming lately?

Just lack of results really, when is the last time Kameme and Scatt went to anything? Peabnut is the only other Mega Man and he's just started to be able to travel. He will pick back up just gotta get Peab to more events

 

[Scorpion17]

Wow I'm actually okay with Ness placement I was expecting him to get really disrespected lol. Would C be considered high or mid high?

I would say mid.

 

[Gunla]

Just out of curiosity: where are in the list? The previous three tier lists had a position for each of their 1111 setups, so one would think this would also be case for this one.

Lack of overall data. We would like to include them (heck, I do actually play Brawler when given the opportunity), but their status puts them into a complete limbo and considering their legal status varying so heavily, we don't require them. Unfortunately this time there just wasn't enough data to really even consider it, which is a shame.

As for Toon Link being between the grapplers, that's just something that's generally happened over time with other characters, and we do take note of it. However, ultimately we didn't choose to directly interfere with the data but it is something we've noticed before.

 

[bc1910]

FYI, the article recommends that D-tier and below should be used for Mid-tier tournaments. So one might view C as high or borderline, B as high and S/A as top.

Good list overall. The top 8 are all present and correct, the high tiers seem reasonable and there have been some sensible shifts in the lower tiers. In particular I am very happy to see ZSS nudging top 5 again; I don't think her results do justice to how nuts she still is.

I agree that Marth and Ryu haven't done anything to warrant staying in A-tier, I would have liked to see them drop to B-tier. I think it's time to start viewing them as top of high tier, not bottom of top tier. Mega Man did strike me as being too low as well, but in fairness the results really haven't been there as of late.

Greninja is significantly off the mark. It's somewhat understandable given the voting ended before his recent results boom, but disappointing because his strong performance on Das Koopa's rankings over the last few months has been ignored once again.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Just out of curiosity: where are in the list? The previous three tier lists had a position for each of their 1111 setups, so one would think this would also be case for this one.

Here you go.

• Miis were excluded. Over time, voting input regarding this trio has largely dwindled due to the status on their legality and the growing rarity of their players. Despite our desire to do so, it is incredibly difficult to give a detailed and accurate rating for them and they were not included in the final ranking. Given the potential status of their re-legalization going into 2018, it wouldn't be a surprise if they were considered for V5 or future versions of the 4BR Tier List.

 

[dakotaisgreat]

Cheers to all the regulars in these threads. It's been a joy posting with you guys in the previous ones.

In this thread at some point I can get so wasted I feel inspired to drop the hottest smashboards post of *2018*

 

[Aegislasher]

Cheers to all the regulars in these threads. It's been a joy posting with you guys in the previous ones.

In this thread at some point I can get so wasted I feel inspired to drop the hottest smashboards post of *2018*

Yes, do it. I want to feel the awesomeness of the hottest Smashboards post of 2018

 

[MistressRemilia]

On a note separate from any of my characters... I feel like people are too afraid to alter the top tier. I feel that Mario, Marth, and Ryu haven't really done much of worth to validate remaining in top tier. Ryu especially, but I feel like all three of them could fall to the next tier.

I'll just quote myself on that one, because i agree that people may be a bit too afraid of changing the top tiers:

- The really frail nature of Mario's matchup has been exposed, with his issues approaching through a somewhat mediocre ground game for neutral purposes & an overall lack of range hindering him in a lot more matchups than you'd expect from a Top tier character. I also believe that his advantage state, as of now, is kind of overrated & could use a little more polish: I'm not saying it's bad, by any means, not even close, just that it has shown to be more inconsistent than it perhaps should be: When fighting Mario, as of right now, in certain situations, you COULD take a lot of damage, rather than you WILL. I may be a little ahead of my time, but i do believe Mario's spot in the tier list will have to be questioned as the metagame progresses, if things don't change

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Well I see far less aruguments against Bayo taking the #1 spot this time. Now that she is winning large majors and has the highst score on Das Koopa's rankings.

 

[Pyrover]

Mostly a good list this time.

I'm annoyed at Wii Fit's placement but I've accepted that nobody cares about her at this stage.

Marth and Lucina are basically next to each other now, so that's pretty good. Corrin should take a step back for Lucina though.

Still don't think Ryu is as good as Corrin, let alone Marth.

Wario's placement is kind of appalling, but I think that comes from most of the voters being from not Europe. Gluttony does too much with him to justify that low position.

Otherwise this is a pretty solid list, and I'm vaguely amused to see Shiek finally fall out of S-tier.

 

[ARGHETH]

The Reddit tier list also came out, and they're basically the same except for like five characters. the top tier is literally this one except for ZSS and Sonic being switched.

Spoiler: List

 

[Aegislasher]

Everybody has probably accepted that that is the way it is, and unless something big happenes it probably won't change. (Meant to be a reply to Ziodyne's comment)

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Some things I don’t agree with. Not major ones which though

-I do not believe Wii Fit should be bottom five. While she is not a great character by any means, I feel she has better tools than andand also has more results than both of them with John Numbers.
-and shouldn’t be in the same tier as ,,,etc. Ryu and Marth both have more lows theory/gameplay wise than most/all of the tier and (I believe anyway) have less results according to Das Koopas chart. However, I do like Lucina being close but not right next to Marth as I definitely feel Lucina is not better than Corrin (but still close)
-, , and seem a bit underrated. Personally feel Olimar should be in the tier above, Peach above Falcon, and Greninja higher in his tier.
-feel he might be like a spot or two too high but not really sure.
- should be above and maybe . I feel should be above but I think that’s just me underselling


Overall nice list.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

-I do not believe Wii Fit should be bottom five. While she is not a great character by any means, I feel she has better tools than andand also has more results than both of them with John Numbers.

Why do you say that?

 

[Egghead]

Finally wii fit is placed bottom 5, the dream finally happened. For those who are wondering why she is placed there, she cant do anything onstage and ledge camping doesnt really do much unless you hard overcommit. YAY FIT BOTTOM 5

 

[Lukingordex]

RIP Yoshi

Btw, when are you guys going to accept that Lucas is better than Ness?

 

[MrGameguycolor]

RIP Yoshi

Btw, when are you guys going to accept that Lucas is better than Ness?

I've accepted it.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Why do you say that?

Actually now that I lool my into it, I feel Doc has better tools than Wik Fit. But Bowser Jr I feel is lackluster and I have thought for a bit he was bottom 5. However my opinions might be a bit biased since I watch a lot of John Numbers and haven’t seen a lot of top Bowser Jr. since Tweek, Jade, and currently Taternator. Even then I feel results wise, which of course isn’t the main/only way to rank a character, Wii Fit definitely edged out over Bowser Jr.

 

[Krysco]

For every tier list, there's gonna be someone who doesn't agree with the 5th worst character since D3, Ganon, Zelda and Puff are generally agreed upon to be the worst 4 (not counting Miis). Nevermind the fact that the 5th worst isn't in the same tier as them and bottom 5 is an arbitrary number that people pick simply for looking nice. Jr, WFT, Doc, Kirby, Pac-Man and Falco are all clearly characters with more weaknesses than strengths. Damn near none of them make grand showings at tournaments save for 1 player here and there like Sinji and John Numbers.

If any of those characters drop down to the lowest tier or if somehow, the bottom 4 ever just get lumped in with those characters, that'd be the time to actually be concerned.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Actually now that I lool my into it, I feel Doc has better tools than Wik Fit. But Bowser Jr I feel is lackluster and I have thought for a bit he was bottom 5. However my opinions might be a bit biased since I watch a lot of John Numbers and haven’t seen a lot of top Bowser Jr. since Tweek, Jade, and currently Taternator. Even then I feel results wise, which of course isn’t the main/only way to rank a character, Wii Fit definitely edged out over Bowser Jr.

Well Wii Fit does have a better time on the ledge.

I do feel her down-B is a little underused considering how much her damage output and zoning improves.

 

[Deleted member]

Here are the things I agree with:

- I figured would be second, he has the second highest score in @Das Koopa 's character score sheet.
- I really like how rose at the top of D tier, people seem to underestimate him. And T does really well with him.
- Glad is still a high tier, he did really well in @Das Koopa 's character score sheet.
- is still first.
-is still at the top of high tier, she deserves that spot. We all thought she was too high, but not anymore.
- is not bottom five anymore! Yes! He has Mario potential you know.
- Nice to see and where they belong, higher than Fox and Sonic.
The only thing I disagree with is thatandare still in top tier. I think a lot of people ( including me ) are beginning to think Marth and Ryu are not top tier anymore. They should be in high tier, even other high tiers got better results than them and they are not just used as much. Plus MKLeo uses Cloud more often. Marth and Ryu did not do very well in @Das Koopa 's character scores.

Can you explain this part? I don’t really see how Doc has “Mario potential.” Yes he good tools such as up b out of shield and I BELIEVE a better up smash than the other two, but he was lower mobility and other aspects keeping him far away from where mario is.

I am just saying Doctor Mario has dangerous aspects that are similar to Mario ( Cape and Up tilt combos into up airs ). Doctor Mario may be slow, but he can be dangerous if he is treated like Mario by using a lot of aerials. Though he is defiently not as dangerous as Mario.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

RIP Yoshi

Btw, when are you guys going to accept that Lucas is better than Ness?

When he actually proves it and doesn't get carried off theory. Not a jab at Lucas at all but Lucas doesn't have Ness' results and they both suffer from a lack of consistent showings at tournaments from their mains. People keep saying this but I frankly don't see it.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

- is not bottom five! Yes! He has Mario potential you know[/USER] 's character scores.

Can you explain this part? I don’t really see how Doc has “Mario potential.” Yes he good tools such as up b out of shield and I BELIEVE a better up smash than the other two, but he was lower mobility and other aspects keeping him far away from where mario is.

 

[Heracr055]

Samus is getting the bump that she deserves. She's actually pretty good.
Marth's drop is expected with a drop in his overall performance (Leo's excellent set with Salem at 2GG Champion Saga nonwithstanding). I think Ryu will edge him out next list.
And what Ryu really lacks is a top level rep. Bayo has Salem & Zack. Diddy has MVD, Zinoto, and Zero. Cloud has MKLeo, Tweek, Komo and many others. And so on. Ryu has Locus, Darkshad and a few others who are not quite at the level that many high level PGR players are at. Hopefully this will change in time, either with new blood or an evolution of the current top Ryu players.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Jr, WFT, Doc, Kirby, Pac-Man and Falco are all clearly characters with more weaknesses than strengths. Damn near none of them make grand showings at tournaments save for 1 player here and there like Sinji and John Numbers.

I would say that's jumping the gun, but considering how little he shows up it's perfectly understandable to think so.
The community just doesn't know (or at worse care) what he can do and it shows since players don't want to use him in tourney.

 

[The-Technique]

aside from some nitpicks (WFT should be above Falco) this tier list looks good to me. props to the backroom

samus is really good, glad that her spot on the tier list is starting to reflect that

 

[Krysco]

I would say that's jumping the gun, but considering how little he shows up it's perfectly understandable to think so.
The community just doesn't know (or at worse care) what he can do and it shows since players don't want to use him in tourney.

Roy was once 6th worst and then people started actually using him and showing what he could do and now he's in mid tier. If players do the same with Doc, I'll gladly take him out of that list but until then, he has not been shown to have tools that offset his weaknesses.

 

[ARISTOS]

On a note separate from any of my characters... I feel like people are too afraid to alter the top tier. I feel that Mario, Marth, and Ryu haven't really done much of worth to validate remaining in top tier. Ryu especially, but I feel like all three of them could fall to the next tier.

I agree with you in that they aren't equal to the characters they're next to, but I think they're a bit stronger than the characters that follow them- IMO you could easily make a new tier and place all three there.

That placing hurts my soul

EDIT: Outside of about 3 outliers, Reddit's tier list almost perfectly corresponds with the 4BR. The community's starting to come to consensus on who's hot and who's not https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/7j6fcj/official_rsmashbros_monthly_voted_tier_list/

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Having "Mario potenial" isnt exactly a point in a characters favor whengood thing to have when you see how kinda struggling in the current meta

 

[Kofu]

Doc will never have "Mario potential" as long as his mobility holds him back.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Move Ryu down. Forget results which he does not even have.

He does not even have the match-ups to be a top tier. He has volatility due to rage.

That is it.

 

[Laken64]

Having "Mario potenial" isnt exactly a point in a characters favor whengood thing to have when you see how kinda struggling in the current meta

Mario has little to grow from considering that his meta is centralized on one thing (grab) which has kept him in top tier since the early days of Wii u, but now it's just not enough anymore with characters that have so much more diverse and flexible tools to develop more tech while is still in the stone age of grab and convert. At this point I'm internally debating how much more better (if at all) is he than who has a much more solid ground game devastating conversations off of grab with one of the fastest CQC in the game and having a forward poke in the air makes it so much better than what Mario has.

 

[Armagon]

is still in low-tier and as a main, that upsets. On the bright side, it does look like is now mid-tier. Has he always been mid-tier? Regardless, i do feel that mid-tier is where he belongs. He's not good enough to be high-tier but definitely better enough to not be low-tier. and shouldn't be that far apart tbh and being above the PK Kids feels weird.

A moment of silence for .

 

[Ziodyne 21]

- is not bottom five anymore! Yes! He has Mario potential you know.

Move Ryu down. Forget results which he does not even have.

He does not even have the match-ups to be a top tier. He has volatility due to rage.

That is it.

Well I guess there trying to out tbe "Smash 4 Factor" Rage and volaitilty is how ZSS can power through her otherwise poor MU's. But the difference is ZSS has actual mobility and approach to capitalize on the "Smash 4 factor "

 

[Aegislasher]

I can agree with Emblem Lord on moving Ryu down, but who would replace his spot? Pikachu, Lucina maybe?

 

[Nobie]

While Bayonetta and Cloud have made Villager's life more difficult, it's still funny to see how much Villager's perception lives or dies with Ranai. Is there any character that's so reliant on a single person supporting their results?