Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Skeeter Mania]

Wow I'm so hyped. I love watching Sonic and Bayo! Their two of my favorite characters in smash! These matches will be very exciting to watch.

Gee, nice April Fool’s joke, m8.

 

[Iridium]

While we are in the early phase of planning, we can tell you one thing

At #SEGASaga, the rivalry will finally be settle: a 5 V 5 crew battle between Mario & Sonic!

Retweet for #TeamMario

Like for #TeamSonic pic.twitter.com/rWxVmrRgdh

— 2GG (@2GGaming) April 1, 2018

They are pretty good at this.

Also, tag who you want to see represent Mario & Sonic! pic.twitter.com/5GjsR8HSIq

— 2GG (@2GGaming) April 1, 2018

Yep.

 

[Rizen]

If you want Ridley, go blue charizard. That's what I do.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Miss me baby? Join us this Fall for an experience like no other: #SegaSaga feat the best Sonics and Bayonettas from all around the world!

Will Sega be able to do what Nintendon’t and break the curse? pic.twitter.com/edm4ybLksq

— 2GG (@2GGaming) April 1, 2018

This is a thing now.

MORE LIKE 2GGC RESIDENTSLEEPER SAGA

HAHAHA AM I RIGHT?
HAHAHA I AM SO FUNNY!

....

(Immediately runs out of the room into the basement, locks the basement, hides in a corner and cries while thinking about life right now)

 

[Iridium]

If you want Ridley, go blue charizard. That's what I do.

And red for Charmeleon, and white for Aerodactyl, but what are the odds of them?

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Miss me baby? Join us this Fall for an experience like no other: #SegaSaga feat the best Sonics and Bayonettas from all around the world!

Will Sega be able to do what Nintendon’t and break the curse? pic.twitter.com/edm4ybLksq

— 2GG (@2GGaming) April 1, 2018

This is a thing now.

The Sega takeover.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Once Snake grabs Ridley, it makes it easy for Lucas to combo that big body.

Ridley should have a 3 frame jab.

 

[Y2Kay]

After a long and refreshing break, I have decided to join back into the fray of CCI

(April Fools)

 

[Iridium]

After a long and refreshing break, I have decided to join back into the fray of CCI

(April Fools)

Irasshaimase!

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Irasshaimase!

Looks like I'm not the only person spouting gratuitous Japanese.

 

[ぱみゅ]

This is a good chance to plug in that Bayonetta CAN activate Witch Time against Ridley and effectively slow him down.

You may resume your topics.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Looks like I'm not the only person spouting gratuitous Japanese.

Omai wa mou shinderui.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Yes! The Ridley-gedon is over! Back to my cute Primarina profile pic.

For some reason, the PGR chart doesn't have any other events after Collision XV. Can anyone make predictions on what April events will be on there and their PGR ranking?

[Edit: Switchfest just got added to the list, and is so far a B Tier.]

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Yes! The Ridley-gedon is over! Back to my cute Primarina profile pic.

For some reason, the PGR chart doesn't have any other events after Collision XV. Can anyone make predictions on what April events will be on there and their PGR ranking?

[Edit: Switchfest just got added to the list, and is so far a B Tier.]

Nice, I wonder who'll be attending.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Nice, I wonder who'll be attending.

This is who is attending so far.

PGR'ed Players
Nairo
MKLeo
Tweek
Larry Lurr
Abadango
komorikiri
Shuton
Raito
Kameme


Notable Players
Dynamo


Only 34 entrants so far with no notable Shulk mains (other than maybe Shuton), so I have a feeling (no pun intended) that the numbers will skyrocket in the future.

Also, I am planning on creating an analysis on each character and predicting their future placements, in order to keep this thread alive.

 

[MarioManTAW]

Only 34 entrants so far with no notable Shulk mains (other than maybe Shuton), so I have a feeling (no pun intended) that the numbers will skyrocket in the future.

M is a notable Shulk main who will be attending. Not sure if notable as players, but notable to the Shulk community are Paradigm and Erico, who will also be attending.

Also, just realized that Switchfest is being run by 2GG, so a saga in disguise?

 

[The_Bookworm]

Alright. This is an analysis on how each character is doing so far in the current metagame, starting with top tiers (the order of each character is based on the current official list).

Doing pretty well, benefiting the title of "best character". Despite some players describing her as "broken", she doesn't have the dominance of one, especially this year so far. At the start of 2018, her results (as shown from Das Koopa's chart) has gone down, with Salem not performing as potent as before. Even with Tweek picking her over Cloud and (alongside Mistake) getting better results, she lacks any tournament wins on majors (and even on B and C Tier events, she struggles to get victories, with Tweek (and Shu on a qualifier) being the only one getting any wins on those events). Although her results at higher level play has increased as a result of Salem and Captain Zack still getting good results, and Tweek's and Mistake's newfound success, Bayonetta's dominance at lower play has gone down (which dropped even more after BSD and RRS's Bayo videos), especially if those players are stacked up at majors, resulting in a large gap between high level Bayo players (Tweek, Mistake, Salem, Zack, and Lima) and lower level Bayo players (although tyroy and Chag can be an exception). In the end, only the most intelligent and skilled Bayo players will thrive in the current metagame, but until she gets consistent tournament wins and top 8 dominance, her placement can be in a little bit of a debate. However, she is well established as the best.

Not doing as well as before. With some events banning Cloud in doubles, Cloud players (despite still obtaining strong results in regional and local play, often higher than Bayo's and Sheik's) has less practice with the character, and his popularity decreased. Still mostly affects majors, as MKLeo and Tweek is starting to prefer Bayo over Cloud (with Tweek replacing Cloud altogether for certain matchups alongside DK), and komorikiri not travelling to the US as much as usual. This lack of interest with Cloud is also appointed with infamous top player opinions, with some top players claiming that Cloud's recovery is too exploitable for safe play at high level. I feel like MKLeo is especially getting that feeling. At this point, despite his enormous strengths, Cloud's placement is volatile, especially competing with Sheik and Diddy.

Similarly to Ness, Diddy is a lucky recipient of not falling apart when he lost his best player. His strengths and ever large playerbase allowed to obtain great results, sometimes higher than of Bayo and Cloud (such as Zinoto's performance at Midwest Mayhem 11). However, he struggles to enter top 4 at majors ever since ZeRo's hiatus (with one top 8 appearance being MVD at Genesis 5), so like Cloud, his placement is volatile.

Sheik seems to have some positive light this year. Similarly to 2017 Sheik, she lacks any tournament wins at majors. However, her consistent top 8 appearances only got better, and her performances on other levels of play got notably stronger as well. VoiD still gets good results and Mr. R continues his dominance at Europe, but his other players at lower level play (specifically sinnyboo242's performance at Midwest Mayhem 11 and Koolaid's upset on Salem) is establishing consistent success at regionals and locals. However, I feel like the verdict on whether Sheik will stay in place or rise in the tier list is ultimately determined in 2GG: Hyrule Saga.

Still getting strong results, in a dominant fashion. Possessing the most dominant matchup chart in the game, this character goes off strong. Despite being a little rarer than other top tier characters (with Kirihara showing up less in tournaments even in Japan) and herself having a little issues with a few of the other top ranked characters, her results is dominant as Dabuz is winning tournaments at a major and regional level, with other Rosa players such as falln getting commendable results as well. Like Sheik, whether she will rise in future tier lists or remain ranked 5th is a story of time.

Both of these flashy characters are going very strong this year with consistant strong success. While Fox has a larger representation, ZSS has greater peaks (thanks to Nairo, Marss, and Choco). I see them remaining here, but both are well established characters.

Not doing as good as before. His popularity and peaks are currently overshadowed by the characters above him. KEN hasn't traveled to the US ever since 2017 is over (with his dominance at Japan being slightly inconsistent), while both Manny and 6wx are in semi-active states. Despite his representation and results still remaining strong on other levels of play, it is kinda hard to predict the future of this character.

Despite not achieving the dominance of 2016 and early 2017, he still gets commendable results benefiting a top tier character. Despite not getting the peaks of Mewtwo, his representation and consistency are both higher than him. Ally and ANTi both gets consistent top 16 placings at majors, while Zenyou and the newly established Dark Wizzy slams down their forward air fists at regional and locals. Despite continuing negative views of this character (similar to Ness), his results makes his future placement debatable.

WaDi makes this character look top 5. Mewtwo is an even stronger combo and kill game than Fox, but with the cost of being even more frail. He competes with Mario for the 9th spot as WaDi gets consistent top 8 showings at majors, with Mewtwo's other players getting good results outside of that. 2018 is going to be volatile for this character as it is unknown if he will truly increase or stay at a very respectable 10th.

Marth is a rarer character than the other top tier characters, as he requires extra smart plays with great effect. MKLeo is the figurehead of this character, especially now as he is reluctant to use Cloud. The result is Marth getting more consistent peaks than other top tier character except for Rosalina and ZSS. However, his lack of popularity in other levels of play may come back to haunt him as he competes with Ryu and Corrin for the 11th spot.

A lot of negative views for this strong character. However, he has a quite a large playerbase despite not being as common as top tier characters. Darkshad gets consistent high placings at majors (getting 9th at Frostbite), Locus's results have improved from his sad performance at the latter half of 2017 (although this may come from picking up Bayonetta as a co-main / secondary), and other players improved successes such as Venom and Brosinex has further adds to this. As a result of both this and his negative views, his placement is volatile, especially if Trela participates in a major.

This is all I got from this so far. Characters ranked in B Tier will be up next.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

M is a notable Shulk main who will be attending. Not sure if notable as players, but notable to the Shulk community are Paradigm and Erico, who will also be attending.

Also, just realized that Switchfest is being run by 2GG, so a saga in disguise?

Possibly, switchfest could potentially be a saga.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Alright. This is an analysis on how each character is doing so far in the current metagame, starting with top tiers (the order of each character is based on the current official list).

Doing pretty well, benefiting the title of "best character". Despite some players describing her as "broken", she doesn't have the dominance of one, especially this year so far. At the start of 2018, her results (as shown from Das Koopa's chart) has gone down, with Salem not performing as potent as before. Even with Tweek picking her over Cloud and (alongside Mistake) getting better results, she lacks any tournament wins on majors (and even on B and C Tier events, she struggles to get victories, with Tweek (and Shu on a qualifier) being the only one getting any wins on those events). Although her results at higher level play has increased as a result of Salem and Captain Zack still getting good results, and Tweek's and Mistake's newfound success, Bayonetta's dominance at lower play has gone down (which dropped even more after BSD and RRS's Bayo videos), especially if those players are stacked up at majors, resulting in a large gap between high level Bayo players (Tweek, Mistake, Salem, Zack, and Lima) and lower level Bayo players (although tyroy and Chag can be an exception). In the end, only the most intelligent and skilled Bayo players will thrive in the current metagame, but until she gets consistent tournament wins and top 8 dominance, her placement can be in a little but of a debate. However, she is well established as the best.

Not doing as well as before. With the recent ban on Cloud in doubles, Cloud players (despite still obtaining strong results in regional and local play, often higher than Bayo's and Sheik's) has less practice with the character, and his popularity decreased. Still mostly affects majors, as MKLeo and Tweek is starting to prefer Bayo over Cloud (with Tweek replacing Cloud altogether for certain matchups alongside DK), and komorikiri not travelling to the US as much as usual. This lack of interest with Cloud is also appointed with infamous top player opinions, with some top players claiming that Cloud's recovery is too exploitable for safe play at high level. I feel like MKLeo is especially getting that feeling. At this point, despite his enormous strengths, Cloud's placement is volatile, especially competing with Sheik and Diddy.

Similarly to Ness, Diddy is a lucky recipient of not falling apart when he lost his best player. His strengths and ever large playerbase allowed to obtain great results, sometimes higher than of Bayo and Cloud (such as Zinoto's performance at Midwest Mayhem 11). However, he struggles to enter top 4 at majors ever since ZeRo's hiatus (with one top 8 appearance being MVD at Genesis 5), so like Cloud, his placement is volatile.

Sheik seems to have some positive light this year. Similarly to 2017 Sheik, she lacks any tournament wins at majors. However, her consistent top 8 appearances only got better, and her performances on other levels of play got notably stronger as well. VoiD still gets good results and Mr. R continues his dominance at Europe, but his other players at lower level play (specifically sinnyboo242's performance at Midwest Mayhem 11 and Koolaid's upset on Salem) is establishing consistent success at regionals and locals. However, I feel like the verdict on whether Sheik will stay in place or rise in the tier list is ultimately determined in 2GG: Hyrule Saga.

Still getting strong results, in a dominant fashion. Possessing the most dominant matchup chart in the game, this character goes off strong. Despite being a little rarer than other top tier characters (with Kirihara showing up less in tournaments even in Japan) and herself having a little issues with a few of the other top ranked characters, her results is dominant as Dabuz is winning tournaments at a major and regional level, with other Rosa players such as falln getting commendable results as well. Like Sheik, whether she will rise in future tier lists or remain ranked 5th is a story of time.

Both of these flashy characters are going very strong this year with consistant strong success. While Fox has a larger representation, ZSS has greater peaks (thanks to Nairo, Marss, and Choco). I see them remaining here, but both are well established characters.

Not doing as good as before. His popularity and peaks are currently overshadowed by the characters above him. KEN hasn't traveled to the US ever since 2017 is over (with his dominance at Japan being slightly inconsistent), while both Manny and 6wx are in semi-active states. Despite his representation and results still remaining strong on other levels of play, it is kinda hard to predict the future of this character.

Despite not achieving the dominance of 2016 and early 2017, he still gets commendable results benefiting a top tier character. Despite not getting the peaks of Mewtwo, his representation and consistency are both higher than him. Ally and ANTi both gets consistent top 16 placings at majors, while Zenyou and the newly established Dark Wizzy slams down their forward air fists at regional and locals. Despite continuing negative views of this character (similar to Ness), his results makes his future placement debatable.

WaDi makes this character look top 5. Mewtwo is an even stronger combo and kill game than Fox, but with the cost of being even more frail. He competes with Mario for the 9th spot as WaDi gets consistent top 8 showings at majors, with Mewtwo's other players getting good results outside of that. 2018 is going to be volatile for this character as it is unknown if he will truly increase or stay at a very respectable 10th.

Marth is a rarer character than the other top tier characters, as he requires extra smart plays with great effect. MKLeo is the figurehead of this character, especially now as he is reluctant to use Cloud. The result is Marth getting more consistent peaks than other top tier character except for Rosalina and ZSS. However, his lack of popularity in other levels of play may come back to haunt him as he competes with Ryu and Corrin for the 11th spot.

A lot of negative views for this strong character. However, he has a quite a large playerbase despite not being as common as top tier characters. Darkshad gets consistent high placings at majors (getting 9th at Frostbite), Locus's results have improved from his sad performance at the latter half of 2017 (although this may come from picking up Bayonetta as a co-main / secondary), and other players improved successes such as Venom and Brosinex has further adds to this. As a result of both this and his negative views, his placement is volatile, especially if Trela participates in a major.

This is all I got from this so far. Characters ranked in B Tier will be up next.[/QUOTE
Thanks for posting how the characters are doing in the tournament scene, really gives an image of whos rising in the metagame.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Only 34 entrants so far with no notable Shulk mains (other than maybe Shuton)

Why highlight Shulk specifically? Is the name of the tourney referencing anything from Xenoblade?

With the recent ban on Cloud in doubles,

Wait, when did that happen? Is there a thread?

Even with Tweek picking her over Cloud and (alongside Mistake) getting better results, she lacks any tournament wins on majors (and even on B and C Tier events, she struggles to get victories, with Tweek (and Shu on a qualifier) being the only one getting any wins on those events).

If this applies to the characters below her as well (to an even harsher degree), why would this matter so much? And what majors are you referring to?

 

[The_Bookworm]

Why highlight Shulk specifically? Is the name of the tourney referencing anything from Xenoblade?



Wait, when did that happen? Is there a thread?

On the first question: the event is a 2GG event that gathers Shulk mains around the world, basically Xenoblade Saga.
On the second question: some events are starting to ban Cloud in doubles, but I think it has a lasting impact nevertheless. I will tweak the description.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I heard that Switchfest was orginally going to be a Shulk Saga, but due to Kome not being able to attend, the plans changed.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I heard that Switchfest was orginally going to be a Shulk Saga, but due to Kome not being able to attend, the plans changed.

Nope. Still on. This was posted yesterday.
https://twitter.com/2GGaming/status/980867486701809666

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Nope. Still on. This was posted yesterday.
https://twitter.com/2GGaming/status/980867486701809666

Shulk players deserve their own saga, hopefully Kome can attend.

 

[Yonder]

There isn't a good official place to view the "double clouds are banned" consensus,but it looks like some places are experimenting

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheTantalus/status/975759536610009088

I think this is great. So many people are afraid to stir the pot a bit and experiment with any sort of banning due to fear of upsetting any demographic (mostly cloud players). The meta may be coming to a close when smash 5 comes out,why not take this time to try out some new things that could rejuvenate the meta again?

Cloud was a serious problem in doubles, moreso than Bayo in singles. Double Cloud had the theory and oppressive results to boast, whereas Bayo's results aren't quite smothering yet. When your pretty much only flaws (recovery and crap throws) are mitigated into positives through doubles,you're left with a flawless monster, aka double clouds.

This is the time to experiment a bit. Xanadu is also doing any sized miis and customs. That is also great and I hope that works out well.

In an ideal world...we'd see customs again (imo) with some major regulations of course.

 

[Iridium]

Shulk players deserve their own saga, hopefully Kome can attend.

I hope! It's been slightly over a year since he has attended anything in the US (2GGC: Civil War), and I think he would go very far in bracket.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

There isn't a good official place to view the "double clouds are banned" consensus,but it looks like some places are experimenting

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheTantalus/status/975759536610009088

I think this is great. So many people are afraid to stir the pot a bit and experiment with any sort of banning due to fear of upsetting any demographic (mostly cloud players). The meta may be coming to a close when smash 5 comes out,why not take this time to try out some new things that could rejuvenate the meta again?

Cloud was a serious problem in doubles, moreso than Bayo in singles. Double Cloud had the theory and oppressive results to boast, whereas Bayo's results aren't quite smothering yet. When your pretty much only flaws (recovery and crap throws) are mitigated into positives through doubles,you're left with a flawless monster, aka double clouds.

This is the time to experiment a bit. Xanadu is also doing any sized miis and customs. That is also great and I hope that works out well.

In an ideal world...we'd see customs again (imo) with some major regulations of course.

Customs would make characters like Palutena better, I wonder if some tournaments will allow the use of customs.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Probably if Xanadu made a tweet saying they would do it. Then the rest may follow. since that was all it took for other tournies around the globe to start allowing unrestricted Mii Fighters and enforcing the double Cloud ban.

 

[Ordeaux26]

Doing pretty well, benefiting the title of "best character". Despite some players describing her as "broken", she doesn't have the dominance of one, especially this year so far. At the start of 2018, her results (as shown from Das Koopa's chart) has gone down, with Salem not performing as potent as before. Even with Tweek picking her over Cloud and (alongside Mistake) getting better results, she lacks any tournament wins on majors (and even on B and C Tier events, she struggles to get victories, with Tweek (and Shu on a qualifier) being the only one getting any wins on those events). Although her results at higher level play has increased as a result of Salem and Captain Zack still getting good results, and Tweek's and Mistake's newfound success, Bayonetta's dominance at lower play has gone down (which dropped even more after BSD and RRS's Bayo videos), especially if those players are stacked up at majors, resulting in a large gap between high level Bayo players (Tweek, Mistake, Salem, Zack, and Lima) and lower level Bayo players (although tyroy and Chag can be an exception). In the end, only the most intelligent and skilled Bayo players will thrive in the current metagame, but until she gets consistent tournament wins and top 8 dominance, her placement can be in a little bit of a debate. However, she is well established as the best.

There Actually Has Always Been A Lack Of Bayonetta Players At A Lower Level OF Play Bayonetta Is Only Really Common at the Highest Level Of Play

 

[Rizen]

Food for thought: another effect of ZeRo quitting was we lost one of if not the best Bayo slayer. That's one less top 10 player obsticle in the way of really good but not top 10 players like Lima and Mistake (Mistake especially has been climbing the ladder). Although 1 player can only do so much and it's getting harder and harder to argue against the sheer saturation of Bayo heads you see pop up in tournament results .



Weight is an important aspect that's too often downplayed. It directly affects weight based grab combos (duh), who wins trades and rage in addition to when a character dies. An easy fix for Cloud and Bayo would be to lighten them by about 10 units; make them glass cannons. Cloud's 100, without a limit boost. For reference, Marth's 90 and Link's 104.
When comparing Diddy to Sheik it's often left out Diddy is 93 and Sheik's 81, which is a significant gap. Further down the line Rosa and Mewtwo especially are balanced by their featherweights of 77 and 74 respectively. This is a large part of why imo Mario at a respectable 98 doesn't fall as far behind other top tiers as some believe.

 

[MarioManTAW]

An easy fix for Cloud and Bayo would be to lighten them by about 10 units; make them glass cannons.

Uh, Bayo's already pretty light. 14th lightest in the game. 10 units lighter would make her tied with Mewtwo as the second lightest character in the game. Are you sure that's what we want to do?

 

[Skeeter Mania]

really good but not top 10 players like Lima and Mistake

I thought Mistake was considered Top 10 by most?

On a side note, any good names for a 2GG event related to Yoshi?

I was thinking something like Eggs Saga, SoHappy Saga, or something like that.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I thought Mistake was considered Top 10 by most?

On a side note, any good names for a 2GG event related to Yoshi?

I was thinking something like Eggs Saga, SoHappy Saga, or something like that.

Mistake has definitely improved, and it is not from ZeRo disappearing, but his mentality and skills improving as seen in Mistake's pre-top 8 interview from Genesis 5.
Mistake fell apart at the second half of v4, but has returned to his first half of v4 state in a more consistent matter.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

I thought Mistake was considered Top 10 by most?

On a side note, any good names for a 2GG event related to Yoshi?

I was thinking something like Eggs Saga, SoHappy Saga, or something like that.

A good name for a Yoshi themed saga would be Flutter saga, ( Yoshi's flutter jump.)

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Mistake has definitely improved, and it is not from ZeRo disappearing, but his mentality and skills improving as seen in Mistake's pre-top 8 interview from Genesis 5.
Mistake fell apart at the second half of v4, but has returned to his first half of v4 state in a more consistent matter.

Yeah, mistake seems to have upped his gameplay a bit, he's probably done more research on certain matchups and maybe even talked to Salem or Tweek about Bayo.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Although 1 player can only do so much and it's getting harder and harder to argue against the sheer saturation of Bayo heads you see pop up in tournament results .

Bayo heads appearing at top 16 should not be any surprise. She is the best character for a reason. However, those numbers isn't overwhelming, especially when you compare to Melee and Brawl, which is combined with her not winning any majors this year so far (although I won't be surprised if Tweek or Mistake wins one. They are SO GOOD). When you think about it, those numbers are very underwhelming for a character that some people calls "broken" and "unbeatable".

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I got to say, 2017 has a lot of S/A Tiers and there so many major tournaments in 2017.There are some many major tournaments in 2017 that in every weekend, there wss going to be at least a major.

In 2018 there is few A Tiers and currently no S Tiers. The majors appeared less often to the point that there will be at least 1 or 2 A tier majors every month instead of at least 1 major in every week like 2017.

Seems like the Smash community got tired of oversaturation of frequent tournaments...

 

[The_Bookworm]

I got to say, 2017 has a lot of S/A Tiers and there so many major tournaments in 2017.There are some many major tournaments in 2017 that in every weekend, there wss going to be at least a major.

In 2018 there is few A Tiers and currently no S Tiers. The majors appeared less often to the point that there will be at least 1 or 2 A tier majors every month instead of at least 1 major in every week like 2017.

Seems like the Smash community got tired of oversaturation of frequent tournaments...

Again, the requirement to get a ranking higher than C Tier has increased this season, with the S+ tier being removed and the A+ tier being added. The weekly PGR'ed tournaments does suffer from other top players being at a different event (usually PGR'ed as well) which is why each tournament isn't as stacked as before. Also, numerous top players from Japan, for some reason, wants to stay at their own region (like KEN) and rarely attends any US events.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

It directly affects weight based grab combos (duh)

Besides a slower animation (which isn't even that noticeable aside from comparing Bowser to someone like Jigglypuff), what effect does that have?

 

[Nah]

Besides a slower animation (which isn't even that noticeable aside from comparing Bowser to someone like Jigglypuff), what effect does that have?

More endlag on the throw.