Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
It's where DKs take DDD so...not that well I assume? We'd have to ask some people who actually play DDD.
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7. Mr. Game & Watch- Sonic Counterpick/Ban discussion
- Thread starter Camalange
- Start date
Kinzer
Mammy
Interesting, I can see why D3s would want to go to any walk-off stages.
Thing is though all the ones Gates mentioned are from transition stages, meaning they aren't permanent. So while it's not something to like ban or lose that one match out of the set, you still need to concern yourself with that fact.
If I had to pick a stage out of all of them to ban, I would go with Delfino Plaza, since that stage has more walk-offs that are harder to avoid; At least Castle Siege's second stage that has the walk-off can be avoidable by just camping the statue platforms, or the non-destructible. I would assume stalling, whether you're in the lead or not, is not worth risking losing that one stock, because Sonic is CGable, and at perfect play you can expect that Spring won't get you out if they are frame-perfect with this.
P.S. Delino Plaza has clear walk-offs, meaning it will be much harder for you to run away in that time, not to mention I already know the stage has at least two walk-offs.
Okay, now that we're talking counterpick stages to go to, let's find out where exactly D3 excels and lacks so that you can take advantage of it:
D3 has the worst aerial speed in the game, meaning stages like Rainbow Cruise where you have to do some jumping are recommended... whether I personally would CP D3 here is something different, but at least you know that he's not just too slow, but THE slowest in the air.
Without any edgeguarding tactics, D3 has a pretty decent recovery, him being very heavy with 5 jumps, and another jump that takes him quite high and has Super Armor on ascension. Sounds pretty good right? Wrong. At least not against Sonic anyway would D3 want to be in this kind of position. Being heavy is a problem when he's not outright killed because it will counteract his chances of getting back onstage, add that he is very big and that he has less to work with in the air (confirmation please? I know there's 5 aerials (though Nair and Bair would seem useless when you're trying to get back on stage... unless Sonic somehow messes up and ends up behind D3 lolwut?) and an airdodge). Sonic also being quite the edgegaurder... well I guess I've already emphasized how important is that you need to have D3 ofstage.
D3 can chaingrab Sonic, don't let anybody who isn't frame-perfect confuse you. It's not so bad when Sonic has a decent recovery but considering that everytime you get grabbed you will have constant damage being tacked on you, you don't want a really flat stage like FD (though it's not the worst stage you could be on, probably just the worst neutral maybe), you'll want a stage that's rather small or changing in some what so that it isn't just... blecktch.
Anyway now you also have to factor that not only can D3 have the same damage output as Sonic, but you also need to consider that you can be killed much earlier than he can. I don't know how smaller/bigger stages work with this equation, but I find that stages that have more open space offstage and/or farther blastzones are better for you. At least with those you'll be able to live much longer and have a better chance of getting some offstage/gimp kills, whereas D3 will moreorless have the same work to do, if not more.
No walls. Stages with permanent walls are almost as bad as walk-offs. The only difference is you just have to be baited to that one part with the wall and it's 1-stock good bye.
With all this said, what would I say make the best Counterpicks? The best stages I feel that meet this criteria are Frigate Orpheon or Pirate Ship. Frigate is a very small stage with it's blastzones quite far away, not to mention the small stage works better if your favor than it does for him. Pirate Ship, although on the opposite of the spectrum, is alright. The stage may be very big for you to get grabbed, but hey, more space to work with, and the hazards certainly make it risky for D3 to try and continue something onward. He doesn't have a spike, so you'd be fine with or in the water, though you won't ge getting any gimps, you shouldn't be dying anytime soon yourself
.
For neutral,s I'm not sure, you'd probably want to go to Yoshi's Island. It has big blastzones, it more or less small, not entirely flat, and iSDR is here.
Thing is though all the ones Gates mentioned are from transition stages, meaning they aren't permanent. So while it's not something to like ban or lose that one match out of the set, you still need to concern yourself with that fact.
If I had to pick a stage out of all of them to ban, I would go with Delfino Plaza, since that stage has more walk-offs that are harder to avoid; At least Castle Siege's second stage that has the walk-off can be avoidable by just camping the statue platforms, or the non-destructible. I would assume stalling, whether you're in the lead or not, is not worth risking losing that one stock, because Sonic is CGable, and at perfect play you can expect that Spring won't get you out if they are frame-perfect with this.
P.S. Delino Plaza has clear walk-offs, meaning it will be much harder for you to run away in that time, not to mention I already know the stage has at least two walk-offs.
Okay, now that we're talking counterpick stages to go to, let's find out where exactly D3 excels and lacks so that you can take advantage of it:
D3 has the worst aerial speed in the game, meaning stages like Rainbow Cruise where you have to do some jumping are recommended... whether I personally would CP D3 here is something different, but at least you know that he's not just too slow, but THE slowest in the air.
Without any edgeguarding tactics, D3 has a pretty decent recovery, him being very heavy with 5 jumps, and another jump that takes him quite high and has Super Armor on ascension. Sounds pretty good right? Wrong. At least not against Sonic anyway would D3 want to be in this kind of position. Being heavy is a problem when he's not outright killed because it will counteract his chances of getting back onstage, add that he is very big and that he has less to work with in the air (confirmation please? I know there's 5 aerials (though Nair and Bair would seem useless when you're trying to get back on stage... unless Sonic somehow messes up and ends up behind D3 lolwut?) and an airdodge). Sonic also being quite the edgegaurder... well I guess I've already emphasized how important is that you need to have D3 ofstage.
D3 can chaingrab Sonic, don't let anybody who isn't frame-perfect confuse you. It's not so bad when Sonic has a decent recovery but considering that everytime you get grabbed you will have constant damage being tacked on you, you don't want a really flat stage like FD (though it's not the worst stage you could be on, probably just the worst neutral maybe), you'll want a stage that's rather small or changing in some what so that it isn't just... blecktch.
Anyway now you also have to factor that not only can D3 have the same damage output as Sonic, but you also need to consider that you can be killed much earlier than he can. I don't know how smaller/bigger stages work with this equation, but I find that stages that have more open space offstage and/or farther blastzones are better for you. At least with those you'll be able to live much longer and have a better chance of getting some offstage/gimp kills, whereas D3 will moreorless have the same work to do, if not more.
No walls. Stages with permanent walls are almost as bad as walk-offs. The only difference is you just have to be baited to that one part with the wall and it's 1-stock good bye.
With all this said, what would I say make the best Counterpicks? The best stages I feel that meet this criteria are Frigate Orpheon or Pirate Ship. Frigate is a very small stage with it's blastzones quite far away, not to mention the small stage works better if your favor than it does for him. Pirate Ship, although on the opposite of the spectrum, is alright. The stage may be very big for you to get grabbed, but hey, more space to work with, and the hazards certainly make it risky for D3 to try and continue something onward. He doesn't have a spike, so you'd be fine with or in the water, though you won't ge getting any gimps, you shouldn't be dying anytime soon yourself
.For neutral,s I'm not sure, you'd probably want to go to Yoshi's Island. It has big blastzones, it more or less small, not entirely flat, and iSDR is here.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
OOH OOOH! PICK ME!
I play D3!
unfortunately I dont play him much anymore. And when i do, its just for CG luls, but I know enough about the character.
Sonic can do very well on JJ if he knows the stage, and can work well on brinstar if he knows what he is doing.
The problem with D3 is that if you pick a big, long possibly flat stage, he can CG you pretty hard. But if you pick a small platformed stage, he can cover massive amounts of the stage with priority walls made of bairs and dairs. The only stage that I think gives sonic a strong CP is rainbow cruise because sonic punishes D3s recovery really hard and it can be hard for D3 to manuver around the stage. The only thing you have to worry about is to make sure you dont get CGd on a wall because even tho infinites are banned, wall infinites are not because the walls on the stage are not permanant but they are still there long enough to screw you over hard.
JJ can be a good unfamiliar CP but I dont think that theres anything that is inherently bad for D3 there aside from the fact that JJ forces you to be more airborne than normal, which either character can use to their adv.
Delfino is an absolute never against a good D3. It has walls and walk offs, sometimes at the same time
@Kin
What walk off/walled legal stages do you have? Cus as far as I know all stages with permanant walkoffs or walls are banned.
Also, he has 4 mid air jumps, and can use anyone of those jumps to turn around in mid air, making bair a viable anti-edgeguarding move.
I play D3!
unfortunately I dont play him much anymore. And when i do, its just for CG luls, but I know enough about the character.
Sonic can do very well on JJ if he knows the stage, and can work well on brinstar if he knows what he is doing.
The problem with D3 is that if you pick a big, long possibly flat stage, he can CG you pretty hard. But if you pick a small platformed stage, he can cover massive amounts of the stage with priority walls made of bairs and dairs. The only stage that I think gives sonic a strong CP is rainbow cruise because sonic punishes D3s recovery really hard and it can be hard for D3 to manuver around the stage. The only thing you have to worry about is to make sure you dont get CGd on a wall because even tho infinites are banned, wall infinites are not because the walls on the stage are not permanant but they are still there long enough to screw you over hard.
JJ can be a good unfamiliar CP but I dont think that theres anything that is inherently bad for D3 there aside from the fact that JJ forces you to be more airborne than normal, which either character can use to their adv.
Delfino is an absolute never against a good D3. It has walls and walk offs, sometimes at the same time
@Kin
What walk off/walled legal stages do you have? Cus as far as I know all stages with permanant walkoffs or walls are banned.
Also, he has 4 mid air jumps, and can use anyone of those jumps to turn around in mid air, making bair a viable anti-edgeguarding move.
JayBee
Smash Champion
kinzer did a good job at pointing out what you want to exploit. sonic combos DDD too easily, and once ddd is airborne the player usually can be baited to airdodge all too easily as well. they can dair, but its 50/50 if you bait attacks consistantly. also, D3 is slow, meaning you should not only CP stages that give you room to move around (which isn't that much because he is slow in the air and ground) but limit his grab opportunities.
Battlefiield is a nice stage to me, and im not gonna talk about that right side spike gimick. the platforms can give you escape from chaingrabs, and if you jugglie him, its much easier since the platforms impede DDD's ability to use dair to stop you. their best options are DI and AD, and if you chase poorly, bair, which can still be punished if you shield it. Upsmash goes through the platforms too, as well as SH uairs. Sonic can do tons of damage to DDD here.
the flipside is that on the defensive, the platforms give DDD free uptilts, so dont be above him on a platform. use the speed to be on a diagonal or linear path.
Rainbow Cruise sounds nice too. chaingrabs can't be used well for most of the stage, and his slow speed leaves him more vulnerable than you.
however, he can wall trap you on ship, and not only can walk off grab you near the top portion, but an uptilt kills even faster. to counteract this, these potrtions of the stage can give sonic isdr (look for the parts that have the best angles), and on the ship, the farthest left side gives sonic the airdash glitch, invincible to any attack. In fact this level has a lot of places to isdr into airdash i believe, however most sonic's haven't found a way to make this a strong strategy instead of a gimmick, so its usefullness is sompletely dependant on the player.
Pictochat gives sonic multiple isdr/airdash platforms and with the number of distrations can make it hard for DDD to chase down and corner sonic without accidentaly getting hit by fire, spikes, etc. this also applies to you, but your superior manuverablity makes this less possible.
but, the blastlines are close on the sides, so if ddd gets damage on you, he still can kill you quick, and he can chain grab you when nothing is going on. this is probably dependant on you being more used to the stage than DDD.
Lylat is meh, because its like battlefield but no one likes it (lol) i think sonic's should lrn to lylat because the still have juggling capabilites here, and makes many people uncomfortable. if they ban it then they basically wasted a ban and gives you the advantage in stage picking.
PS1: i understand why people would say this, but it slows down your game just as much as his. often times you can be caught in the air with little to go to outside of a random DDD uptilt. your momentum can be interrupted by the stage changes and you lose that extra damage oyu may have had OR it puts you in a bad spot. player dependant
the only thing DDD loses on JJ is the ability to uptilt you at 100% for a KO. the sides are scary, and he can camp the platforms with walls of bair ans stuff. you may be able to Dthrow him under the plat from,im not sure though. this is also player dependant.
Ban FD, even though sonic loves it here sometimes. IF they don't know they will mostlikely ban it for you. I'd ban Smashville. i think people are WAAAAY to comfortable playing there, and DDD has nothign to scare him from rushing you and chain grabbing you, plus its easy to edgegaurd here.
Battlefiield is a nice stage to me, and im not gonna talk about that right side spike gimick. the platforms can give you escape from chaingrabs, and if you jugglie him, its much easier since the platforms impede DDD's ability to use dair to stop you. their best options are DI and AD, and if you chase poorly, bair, which can still be punished if you shield it. Upsmash goes through the platforms too, as well as SH uairs. Sonic can do tons of damage to DDD here.
the flipside is that on the defensive, the platforms give DDD free uptilts, so dont be above him on a platform. use the speed to be on a diagonal or linear path.
Rainbow Cruise sounds nice too. chaingrabs can't be used well for most of the stage, and his slow speed leaves him more vulnerable than you.
however, he can wall trap you on ship, and not only can walk off grab you near the top portion, but an uptilt kills even faster. to counteract this, these potrtions of the stage can give sonic isdr (look for the parts that have the best angles), and on the ship, the farthest left side gives sonic the airdash glitch, invincible to any attack. In fact this level has a lot of places to isdr into airdash i believe, however most sonic's haven't found a way to make this a strong strategy instead of a gimmick, so its usefullness is sompletely dependant on the player.
Pictochat gives sonic multiple isdr/airdash platforms and with the number of distrations can make it hard for DDD to chase down and corner sonic without accidentaly getting hit by fire, spikes, etc. this also applies to you, but your superior manuverablity makes this less possible.
but, the blastlines are close on the sides, so if ddd gets damage on you, he still can kill you quick, and he can chain grab you when nothing is going on. this is probably dependant on you being more used to the stage than DDD.
Lylat is meh, because its like battlefield but no one likes it (lol) i think sonic's should lrn to lylat because the still have juggling capabilites here, and makes many people uncomfortable. if they ban it then they basically wasted a ban and gives you the advantage in stage picking.
PS1: i understand why people would say this, but it slows down your game just as much as his. often times you can be caught in the air with little to go to outside of a random DDD uptilt. your momentum can be interrupted by the stage changes and you lose that extra damage oyu may have had OR it puts you in a bad spot. player dependant
the only thing DDD loses on JJ is the ability to uptilt you at 100% for a KO. the sides are scary, and he can camp the platforms with walls of bair ans stuff. you may be able to Dthrow him under the plat from,im not sure though. this is also player dependant.
Ban FD, even though sonic loves it here sometimes. IF they don't know they will mostlikely ban it for you. I'd ban Smashville. i think people are WAAAAY to comfortable playing there, and DDD has nothign to scare him from rushing you and chain grabbing you, plus its easy to edgegaurd here.
Kinzer
Mammy
I wonder if Corneria is still a legal CP here in Vegas.
If not, then I haven't seen any stages with a permanent wall or a walk-off CPed with, I doubt any of them are legal here to begin with.
Also LOL @ the thought of D3 turning around to Bair me back ONSTAGE. Yeah sure I may be a bit higher up in damage but the situation is pretty much reset with him 1 jump shorter of being able to recover.
If not, then I haven't seen any stages with a permanent wall or a walk-off CPed with, I doubt any of them are legal here to begin with.
Also LOL @ the thought of D3 turning around to Bair me back ONSTAGE. Yeah sure I may be a bit higher up in damage but the situation is pretty much reset with him 1 jump shorter of being able to recover.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
what i mean is have you ever played a dk, and when you knock him high offstage, he will side b backwards so that he has his bair to use on you should you try any offstage gimping shenanigans.
DDD can do the same things with one of his midair jumps
DDD can do the same things with one of his midair jumps
Kinzer
Mammy
No, but I can see where you're coming from.
However his Side-B does not take away his second jump.
But that's also kinda silly, considering how long that takes.
However his Side-B does not take away his second jump.
But that's also kinda silly, considering how long that takes.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
well they do it up in the corner of the screen, at a point where you shouldnt be able to touch them.
but sonic can actually get all the way up there, I should remember that the next time I play The Hulk
but sonic can actually get all the way up there, I should remember that the next time I play The Hulk
Kinzer
Mammy
So have we met some compromise/agreement?
I just wanna clarify, ya know.
I just wanna clarify, ya know.
Phoenix_Dark
Smash Lord
Um... I take D3 to Battlefield <3 I could be completely wrong, but most D3's I've played do poorly on this stage. The platforms make for easy juggling, and then there's the spike if you can set it up.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
and you can camp him and keep away from his cgs
~TBS~
Smash Champion
Umm...this is pretty obvious, but dont take him to Isle Delfino. That stage is just terribad, and CG's on one part of the stage will be an instant KO.
Battlefield is a pretty good stage, that seems like a solid choice. I hate the fact that on Angel Island (Yoshi's island), his attacks and halt ISDR...Is Smashville also a good stage vs D3?
Battlefield is a pretty good stage, that seems like a solid choice. I hate the fact that on Angel Island (Yoshi's island), his attacks and halt ISDR...Is Smashville also a good stage vs D3?
Phoenix_Dark
Smash Lord
I hate D3 on SV. He takes up like, the whole flippin stage. I do want to try out Japes against him though, now. That seems like a solid cp against him. Battlefield is probably Sonic's best neutral against D3. That's how I feel, at least.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
We had a thread about Japes. Everyone liked it except against Falco.
Phoenix_Dark
Smash Lord
So, I tried taking a few Snake's to Japes. Unless you reallyyyyyy like to play gay, I wouldn't cp him to there. He can just camp on the left or right platform the whole game. His grenades are harder to avoid on this stage, because of the limited running area, and their large hitboxes. His tilts basically keep him completely safe when standing on one of the side platforms. Sure, you'll live to a higher percent, but if they're playing the stage right, you're probably gonna have yourself a match that reaches the time limit.
Kinzer
Mammy
I just CPed my TO who plays Snake to Japes.
Granted, he wouldn't die until he got to like 220%, but that might've been me being too impatient to place for the kill and save it for the right time. I also had no fear of getting UTilt killed because that @#$% doesn't work, and Snake's Tilts/ Jabs were always decayed because he can't hit me with anything else, not grenades, and not C4s.
I won that match.
Granted, he wouldn't die until he got to like 220%, but that might've been me being too impatient to place for the kill and save it for the right time. I also had no fear of getting UTilt killed because that @#$% doesn't work, and Snake's Tilts/ Jabs were always decayed because he can't hit me with anything else, not grenades, and not C4s.
I won that match.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Would Rainbow Cruise be a good stage against DDD?
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
I'm pretty sure Lain picks DDD when his opponent takes him to RC so....Probably not? I'd just go battlefield.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
We love Rainbow cruise. 
Walls, walk offs, our jumping ability. Its all great
Walls, walk offs, our jumping ability. Its all great
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
Point taken... :S
So just Japes/Battlefield so far?
So just Japes/Battlefield so far?
Kinzer
Mammy
I haven't considered BF, I forgot most of D3's kills are star KOs (probably 'cause of that Up Tilt).
As long as you don't get F/B-Thrown on the side platforms to the blastzone, you should be moreorless safe going there...
As long as you don't get F/B-Thrown on the side platforms to the blastzone, you should be moreorless safe going there...
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Lol, thanks for your input, I kind of ignored this thread.
I updated OP and the next discussion starts.
GO!
I updated OP and the next discussion starts.
GO!
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
CP Rainbow Cruise, Ban FD, Give Terios cookie.
Edit: Also I'd like to discuss BF, Frigate and Norfair.
Edit: Also I'd like to discuss BF, Frigate and Norfair.
Nixernator
Smash Ace
Ban FD obviously.
CP RC, Frigate? (unsure seems like a good idea), Norfair? (another good idea in my head), maybe possibly Lylat but I'm unsure.
CP RC, Frigate? (unsure seems like a good idea), Norfair? (another good idea in my head), maybe possibly Lylat but I'm unsure.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Lylat sounds good from the recovery problems it poses but most Diddy's like to DI kind of up so they don't have to barrel preferring to Diddy Flip. Also the platforms mixed with naners and peanut pistol could pose problems. It's the same reason I want some discussion on BF. Offensive Diddy is easy enough there having his banana's nerfed but DEFENSIVE Diddy could use those Naners in a much more devastating fashion. It's the same deal as with Norfair too. Camping that center platform poses problems. I see no problems with RC but it'll probably get striked by them if Norfair doesn't. I guess if they strike Norfair I'd pick RC and if they Strike THAT I'm not sure as they probably know how to handle Norfair.
Frigate seems like an okay option all around.
Frigate seems like an okay option all around.
Kinzer
Mammy
I wouldn't go to Frigate, it's not... disruptive enough, if you will. Even though it is a counterpick, the stage is way too straightforward to really work in your advantage. You want a stage like Lylat/Rainbow Cruise that has a little bit more "hey, look at me!" stats, especially with Rainbow Cruise since Diddy trying to use Bananas here is just a silly idea that you won't see often if ever.
Just watch out for that DTilt lock on the ship, I find that really annoying to get caught in it. Other than that if they don't ban Rainbow Cruise you have no reason not to go to this stage other than personal preference, and if that is a problem for you grow a pair and get comfortable on that stage.
Battlefield looks like the best neutral, obviously ban FD no questions asked.
Just watch out for that DTilt lock on the ship, I find that really annoying to get caught in it. Other than that if they don't ban Rainbow Cruise you have no reason not to go to this stage other than personal preference, and if that is a problem for you grow a pair and get comfortable on that stage.
Battlefield looks like the best neutral, obviously ban FD no questions asked.
iSpiN
Smash Journeyman
lmao, @ first post, I guess I'm too slow too.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
same way diddy can downtilt lock, sonic can jab combo lock
TheREALShadowChaos
Smash Journeyman
I'm just too fast. :-/
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wow guys...it was a matter of being in the chat at the time.
No need to take it so personally >_< You do realize how small those xat doodle boards are right? And the influx of people who go into the xat and would want their name on it?
We should just be happy some **** didn't keep ERASING the image while Kojin drew it.
No need to take it so personally >_< You do realize how small those xat doodle boards are right? And the influx of people who go into the xat and would want their name on it?
We should just be happy some **** didn't keep ERASING the image while Kojin drew it.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
I think being in the SBR is way more indicative of your acceptance in the Sonic boards. :/
So. On TOPIC (blasphemous I know) what are Diddy's advantages on Jungle Japes? Water drags him away while we can jump out of the water and side B Jump out and spring since water gives us our second jump back, He's pretty bad at killing anyway(assuming you Smash DI the Fsmash up and towards him) and the boundaries don't help him and actually give us ample time to momentum cancel. Problems I see are banana camping the side platforms which shouldn't be that big a deal since he has to stop to pull new ones.
So. On TOPIC (blasphemous I know) what are Diddy's advantages on Jungle Japes? Water drags him away while we can jump out of the water and side B Jump out and spring since water gives us our second jump back, He's pretty bad at killing anyway(assuming you Smash DI the Fsmash up and towards him) and the boundaries don't help him and actually give us ample time to momentum cancel. Problems I see are banana camping the side platforms which shouldn't be that big a deal since he has to stop to pull new ones.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Y'all got spindashday troll'd.
Kinzer
Mammy
LOL @ emotions.
...I already said mah 2centa, 'less somebody else disagrees with me, I've nothing else to add (that I can think of).
...I already said mah 2centa, 'less somebody else disagrees with me, I've nothing else to add (that I can think of).
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
I'm gonna post this again in the Diddy thread, because they all were too lazy/did not notice the first time.
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
If you're hit into the water anywhere to the right of the first platform on the left, any and every character can recover from the water, even Olimar with no Pikmin. If you're hit to the left of that platform, no character can recover. It's all a matter of buffering your jump and WAITING until you're at optimal height, then double jumping then upBing or whatever (a lot of people just spam jump and wonder why they can't recover).
Also, lack of a flat stage=/=bananas nerfed. Just because a stage isn't FD doesn't mean it's going to heavily disrupt or disrupt at all our banana play. Granted, a stage like RC or Brinstar will because of the moving third of it/uneven ground, but a stage like BF or Lylat can be just as good for us as FD can. The platforms allow for neat or easily accessible stuff (nearly unpunishable OoS upB, falling through platform throws, z-catching withing short-hop height, the short stage=better pressure than a longer one like FD) that would surprise you.
I'd suggest CPing RC and Brinstar (how well does Sonic do on Brinstar?). Japes doesn't sound that great to CP; the water doesn't hinder us any more, and the stage works well with banana camping and banana game in general. Granted, the high blast-zones gives you more room to DI, but we don't kill off the top, so it's not as much of an issue. Plus, Sonic also has trouble killing, so it's not going to really help any more.
Also, lack of a flat stage=/=bananas nerfed. Just because a stage isn't FD doesn't mean it's going to heavily disrupt or disrupt at all our banana play. Granted, a stage like RC or Brinstar will because of the moving third of it/uneven ground, but a stage like BF or Lylat can be just as good for us as FD can. The platforms allow for neat or easily accessible stuff (nearly unpunishable OoS upB, falling through platform throws, z-catching withing short-hop height, the short stage=better pressure than a longer one like FD) that would surprise you.
I'd suggest CPing RC and Brinstar (how well does Sonic do on Brinstar?). Japes doesn't sound that great to CP; the water doesn't hinder us any more, and the stage works well with banana camping and banana game in general. Granted, the high blast-zones gives you more room to DI, but we don't kill off the top, so it's not as much of an issue. Plus, Sonic also has trouble killing, so it's not going to really help any more.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
This is a total bull**** argument in Sonic vs Diddy.
ViCTORiOUSViC
Smash Apprentice
sonic doesnt really have much trouble killing if you know what you are doing