A couple situational approaches

[Villi]

I've been trying out some different methods of offense in my mix ups, and these tend to work out pretty well mid match..

SH rising fair -> aerial vanish.

You score a little bit of extra momentum forward as you go into your vanish animation, and you're really low to the ground so you can hit tall characters from the front and short characters from above their heads. It seems like it's difficult to punish especially since you can choose to appear away from or a good distance behind them. At first, it just looks like you're fairing defensively cuz you're not really close enough to hit them, then then all of a sudden you're back in the air with zomg invincibility + hit box.

If you just tap away or toward, you'll have very little landing lag. If they try to defend against it in any way, they likely won't be able to punish it.

Full hopped rising fair -> (fast falled) fair/bair.

Only works on taller chars. The first hit is shield safe, so if you do hit someone's shield, you can decide from there if you really want to continue the attack. It's decent pressure at low percents and it comes out about as fast as Marth's double fairs.. at least I can't really tell the difference with my wavebirds. You can even time your fairs so that you can full hop fair through a battle field platform, fast fall through it and hit with another fair before touching the ground.

It also works pretty effectively against people who try to punish short hop approaches by jumping over you and attacking.

I wanted to know if you all thought they sounded like decent approaches, or if you could figure out a good reason why I shouldn't do them.

 

[demodemo]

second one sounds pretty good

first one..err, yeah, unless they land (which they probably will, considering the startup on vanish) and shield...

then you will probably get punished since vanish's ending is sorta bleh too

am i misunderstand the first approach?

 

[Villi]

second one sounds pretty good

first one..err, yeah, unless they land (which they probably will, considering the startup on vanish) and shield...

then you will probably get punished since vanish's ending is sorta bleh too

am i misunderstand the first approach?

Yeah, you don't try to connect with the fair. You space to hit with the vanish, and the fair is just there to cover in case they approach in the meantime and to provide easier timing to get a consistent, buffered aerial vanish.

 

[-Mars-]

I'm actually very intrigued with the first one. The only thing I could think of as to why it would not be good is because Vanish takes forever to start up. On the little boost that Vanish has before the hitbox initiates......are you invincible?

If so it might be decent as another approach for a possible KO approach. If not(sorry i'm not too familiar with Vanishs' properties), you could easily be hit out with any great defensive move.

 

[Villi]

On the little boost that Vanish has before the hitbox initiates......are you invincible?

If so it might be decent as another approach for a possible KO approach. If not(sorry i'm not too familiar with Vanishs' properties), you could easily be hit out with any great defensive move.

Ankoku's frame data says that you're vulnerable for 22 frames after you initiate up b. By the time you reach them, you should be invincible. If they suddenly decide to go aggro after your fair, you can be punished before your invincibility comes back but that's sort of an odd reaction for them to suddenly put a hitbox in the air between where you were and where they were standing.

If they stand there and attack you, they hit invincibility frames. If they chase you where your fair should have landed, they just whiff cause you're not even there. Also I'm guessing you get the soft landing lag without IASA, which isn't so bad.

 

[Squidster]

<3 full hopt rising Nair. It's seriously too good.

 

[Villi]

I've done the full hopped nair, but I don't really know what to do after except fall away or do another nair. Seems like SH nair does all the same things and lets you touch the ground quicker.

 

[imdavid]

the second option works well because you can't get shield grabbed from it which is nice bonus, but it doesn't work on mk or g&w

also, for the first option. if you actually hit with the fair at a low percent, can you chain the vanish into that? and can you further catch with the wind? if that somehow works we could then chain that into a ftilt possibly and that is pretty nice percentage.

and last... wouldn't the intentionally missed fair just ask for a ftilt to face against marth players i've done that unintentionally a couple of times and it hurt haha


thanks villi :D