asob4
Smash Champion
we have more combo's than that
getting grabbed by olimar is always going to be bac
getting grabbed by olimar is always going to be bac
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A King's Quest For Respect: The Bowser Matchup Thread
- Thread starter Uncle
- Start date
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Attention
I am Money Matching BlackWaltz at Clash of Titans 4 in a best of 7 set Bowser vs Olimar only. Maybe this will help everybody decide, because I'm recording it and everybody will get to see the matchup first hand by players that are really good with their characters.
I am Money Matching BlackWaltz at Clash of Titans 4 in a best of 7 set Bowser vs Olimar only. Maybe this will help everybody decide, because I'm recording it and everybody will get to see the matchup first hand by players that are really good with their characters.
B!squick
Smash Master
Thanks Vex. This "discussion" has been pointless for many pages. When is Clash?
LinIsKorean
Smash Journeyman
Vex saves the day!
I played a few rounds against Awex, but I really don't think that's enough experience to say anything. One thing I do know is that he outranges us like a beast, getting close enough to hit him is a challenge in itself against a good Olimar.
I played a few rounds against Awex, but I really don't think that's enough experience to say anything. One thing I do know is that he outranges us like a beast, getting close enough to hit him is a challenge in itself against a good Olimar.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I for one loved being the by-stander in this debate, smashboards drama is sooo fail.
I like the bit where asob pretended Pikmin physically stopped Bowser from moving and forced him to immediately Up B and how he said if we try to kill them they can just WAC. I suppose Olimar goes 100-0 against every character, he can just WAC whenever anyone trys to kill him lol. Oh and who could forget the Klaw being the exact same as Fox's D Air?
I'm done debating Bowser matchups, people are too ignorant and stubborn, no-one except Bowser mains seem to know a ****ing thing about Bowser. From now on I'll just say the number I believe, no reasoning.
60-40 Olimar
I like the bit where asob pretended Pikmin physically stopped Bowser from moving and forced him to immediately Up B and how he said if we try to kill them they can just WAC. I suppose Olimar goes 100-0 against every character, he can just WAC whenever anyone trys to kill him lol. Oh and who could forget the Klaw being the exact same as Fox's D Air?
I'm done debating Bowser matchups, people are too ignorant and stubborn, no-one except Bowser mains seem to know a ****ing thing about Bowser. From now on I'll just say the number I believe, no reasoning.
60-40 Olimar
Jinkwai
Smash Apprentice
How soon will the vids be up?
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Feb 7th-8th, expect the vids around the 10th
asob4
Smash Champion
if bowser does not remove them he will be at kill percents in a matter of seconds, so it actually is a matter of stock or death when it comes to a character like bowser
when bowsers kill moves are as predictable as they are, yes you can wac them, not to mention you have to be reasonably close, which the olimar will not let you do
i was not referring to the actual klaw, but what would be done AFTER the klaw
and it seems only olimar mains know ANYTHING about olimar
stfu :D
B!squick
Smash Master
Yep, I'm way past caring what anyone has to say until the 10th.
EDIT: Also, this: "he can just WAC whenever anyone trys to kill him," sounds hilarious if you say it out loud.
EDIT: Also, this: "he can just WAC whenever anyone trys to kill him," sounds hilarious if you say it out loud.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
" * Description: Ok so for those of you who havent heard, Bowser is good. Brawl Bowser is much faster then his melee alternative. Bowsers F-B is pretty strong so watch for it since a lot of Bowser players tend to approach with it. Bowsers jab is also pretty fast. In general the thing you need to know about Bowser is that he is faster then you expect him to be. Oh and is U-B is still good.
* Counter: Bowser is strong and he has a couple moves that come out pretty fast so the main thing you want to concetrated on this match is outranging him. It is relatively easy to kite Bowser so if you just do your best to keep your distance you can control the match. One important thing to be aware of is that his F-B can grab you out of your shield. Also for those of you who don't know how Bowser F-B, here is a brief explanation: Both you and Bowser have control over where Bowser carries you. The lower percent that your at the more you can control and the higher the percent, the more Bowser can.
* Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 4"
Lol, taken from Olimar guide and still better than what I read here...
* Counter: Bowser is strong and he has a couple moves that come out pretty fast so the main thing you want to concetrated on this match is outranging him. It is relatively easy to kite Bowser so if you just do your best to keep your distance you can control the match. One important thing to be aware of is that his F-B can grab you out of your shield. Also for those of you who don't know how Bowser F-B, here is a brief explanation: Both you and Bowser have control over where Bowser carries you. The lower percent that your at the more you can control and the higher the percent, the more Bowser can.
* Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 4"
Lol, taken from Olimar guide and still better than what I read here...
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
^^You obviously didn't get the memo, the discussion is postponed till the 10th as this is going nowhere fast.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
No I didn't 
Why to the 10th? If that's so, why not continue to a different character?
Why to the 10th? If that's so, why not continue to a different character?
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
Vex is going to have vids playing a good olimar.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
We have faith in you Vex.
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
i hate this matchup.....fire to outrange the pikmins....tilts....imo....60:40 oli
B!squick
Smash Master
We still have plenty of time to kill before the 10th. Should we just move on to another char?
Bowser King
Have It Your Way
That would seem to be the smartest choice. It's better we start another discussion then sit here and wait till the 10th
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Bowser King
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Bowser King
B!squick
Smash Master
Well then, Pikachu... Even ish? O.o
Liquid Gen
Smash Ace
I fight my friend's Rei's Pikachu daily.
I have also played Kprime's some.
This matchup is even; at the very least 55:45.
I have also played Kprime's some.
This matchup is even; at the very least 55:45.
B!squick
Smash Master
Woo, called it. I don't play many Pikachus. But as far as I know, Pikachu is just hard to catch being small and quick and whatnot.
lanky_gunner
Smash Master
- Joined
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Woo, this got a sticky! Nice work, considering I haven't posted in this section for a while.
Pikachu though...ugh, I always seem to have a hard time with it. Let's see, I find the best way to use Bowser is tilts. Pikachu is faster, and has a bigger range in his smashes than Bowser, so using your tilts can give you a faster ground game.
Aerial-wise, Pikachu is better. I always have a hard time fighting in the air with a Pikachu.
And I found the best way (for me, at least) to stop a Jolt spamming Pikachu is to predict when and how they're doing it, and blast back with a Fire Breath spam, cause your fire protects from the Jolt.
So maybe it's because I have a hard time with Pikachus, or I haven't faced that many since Brawl was released, but I just don't see Bowser having a good matchup against it. I might be proven wrong after I post this, but then again, that'll help me in the long run.
So my opinion might be void, but I see a 60/40 disadvantage to a Pikachu, maybe 65/35.
Pikachu though...ugh, I always seem to have a hard time with it. Let's see, I find the best way to use Bowser is tilts. Pikachu is faster, and has a bigger range in his smashes than Bowser, so using your tilts can give you a faster ground game.
Aerial-wise, Pikachu is better. I always have a hard time fighting in the air with a Pikachu.
And I found the best way (for me, at least) to stop a Jolt spamming Pikachu is to predict when and how they're doing it, and blast back with a Fire Breath spam, cause your fire protects from the Jolt.
So maybe it's because I have a hard time with Pikachus, or I haven't faced that many since Brawl was released, but I just don't see Bowser having a good matchup against it. I might be proven wrong after I post this, but then again, that'll help me in the long run.
So my opinion might be void, but I see a 60/40 disadvantage to a Pikachu, maybe 65/35.
MrEh
Smash Hero
We mind as well just talk about Pikachu since the Olimar discussion won't be going anywhere for a while.
I'll update the OP.
I'll update the OP.
Bowser King
Have It Your Way
You forgot the title >:D
-Bowser King
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Bowser King
MrEh
Smash Hero
Fixed.
Pikachu is pretty tough. Dsmash hurts, grabs hurt. Pretty much everything hurts.
Pikachu is pretty tough. Dsmash hurts, grabs hurt. Pretty much everything hurts.
B!squick
Smash Master
A well spaced Thunder though rains on SO many parades...
Liquid Gen
Smash Ace
No. Dodging thunder is really easy...
And the fthrow cg lasts till the end of the stage. It isn't that bad.
DI Dsmash.
And the fthrow cg lasts till the end of the stage. It isn't that bad.
DI Dsmash.
B!squick
Smash Master
Not if your high up and hit stunned, then it's a problem. Or if wifi lag prevents you from getting out of the way in time. =_=
ClobberinTime
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2007
- Messages
- 24
I'm a pika main, but one of my friends likes to play with Bowser a lot, so I'm fairly familiar with the matchup. Bowser has to be constantly aware of Fair->Grab->Fthrow chaingrab. For this reason, while the fire breath (which probably shouldn't be used much) and bowser's greater ground range in general does keep pika from approaching on the ground, pika is going to be approaching from the air most of the time with the exception of the occasional dsmash when the opportunity comes up. You'll see a lot of fairs and bairs just because it's easy to rack up damage on a big target like bowser with their multi hit attacks.
Its hard not to get thunder-happy when you are playing bowser I've got to admit because if you misjudge the timings, you're almost guaranteed to be hit by a pika who knows what he's doing. While triple thundering isn't a viable edgeguarding strategy against some characters, you can abuse it quite a bit against bowser because he doesn't have much time to be dodging in mid-air before he has to recover. For this reason, sometimes TJolting him can be also serviceable because it can sometimes get him below the vertical range he has for recovery.
Pretty much the only option in the pika matchup is to attempt to shield him coming in and try to get some hits in with the tilts because pika's aerial game>>>>>bowser's aerial game, with the possible exception of bowser's uair, which can be troublesome The thing is though, with bowser, it only takes 70% (and sometimes less) before you can legitimately think of killing pika, while it's going to take at least 150% for pika before he's going to kill you with anything like fsmash and nair unless he's edgeguarding.
So while I'd say Pika has a pretty heavy advantage, Bowser still has a chance if he takes advantage of mistakes because he needs a lot less damage output than pika here, obviously.
Its hard not to get thunder-happy when you are playing bowser I've got to admit because if you misjudge the timings, you're almost guaranteed to be hit by a pika who knows what he's doing. While triple thundering isn't a viable edgeguarding strategy against some characters, you can abuse it quite a bit against bowser because he doesn't have much time to be dodging in mid-air before he has to recover. For this reason, sometimes TJolting him can be also serviceable because it can sometimes get him below the vertical range he has for recovery.
Pretty much the only option in the pika matchup is to attempt to shield him coming in and try to get some hits in with the tilts because pika's aerial game>>>>>bowser's aerial game, with the possible exception of bowser's uair, which can be troublesome The thing is though, with bowser, it only takes 70% (and sometimes less) before you can legitimately think of killing pika, while it's going to take at least 150% for pika before he's going to kill you with anything like fsmash and nair unless he's edgeguarding.
So while I'd say Pika has a pretty heavy advantage, Bowser still has a chance if he takes advantage of mistakes because he needs a lot less damage output than pika here, obviously.
Magmortar75
Smash Rookie
Seems about right. I'd proabably say around 40-60 or 35-65 Pikachu here.
Ct's post pretty much sums this up.
Ct's post pretty much sums this up.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Ground Pound...?
To stop approaches :O?
So, I hate Thunder edgeguard.
Also, let's discuss QAC and how it ***** Bowser
To stop approaches :O?
So, I hate Thunder edgeguard.
Also, let's discuss QAC and how it ***** Bowser
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
when it comes to qac, you should look for a move that stops it. i would think a grounded up b or a nair would stop qac dead in its tracks. this matchup is interesting. pikachu has a pretty good cg on you. we can also use dthrow wave pivot grab to reverse it and go the other way if you arent careful. we are also much faster but what you lack in speed you gain in range and fortress OOS. use that one A LOT. pretty much anytime we get inside your comfort zone use it. just watch for us to sheild and punish. We have some pretty devestating combos on you, but you guys take so long to kill anyway that it isnt as powerful as it could be. bowser can kill pika pretty early. i am not 100% sure, but i am fairly certain that pika cant be dtilted out of a grab release. every time someone has tried that on me my sheild comes up, though dk if it s bad timing. anyway i would call this around 60-40 Pika, possible slightly lower. if any bowser wants to play me online to help the matchup just ask.
neji32
Smash Lord
Your Dsmash will kill us really early. If a Pika is QACing through you consistantly, i think your Utilt can stop it. if you get hit by Utilt then you will 80% of the time get combo'ed into another Utilt or a rising Uair and that can lead to another Uair to either mindgames and put you into another Utilt Uair comob or Nair. I'm not sure how good bowsers gimpy ability is but you cant gimp a pika that knows what hes doing(its really really hard) even mks have trouble doing it. So if we are off the stage guard to rack more damage. If your off the stage you will see either a thunder guard(thunder off teh stage preventing you from moving forward and or we would jump out with an Nair if we think we can surprise you well enough. Spaming tjolts is something pikas will do alot and it will try to bait you to come near and the pika will either shield punish or QAC away for more tjolts. Usmash or Utilt at high percents will lead to a thunder about 70% of the time. i give this match up 65-35 pikachu
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Tips after playing Neji:
Bowser can camp, Fire and F-tilt beat out T-jolt. Fire is especially handy, because most Pikas have the tendancy to Jolt and just fly after it (in the air). Aim the fire at the jolt and hit Pika.
Up-B is too good here, it was about 25-40% of all damage output I did. It was very unpunishable, and this too clanks with T-jolt.
Choose a small, flat stage like Smashville. Battlfield was way too hard, Pikachu's U-air destroyed me there. I'd stay away there :O Big flat stages was where I was good.
I'll continue now, trying out Norfair.
EDIT: Norfair was a meh-stage. It had the platforms for Pika to get you on, but also a low ceiling which quite helped. Pikachu can recover from almost anywhere on that stage.
OH YEA, Pikachu has a BIIIIG advantage over Bowser in the air.
Bowser can camp, Fire and F-tilt beat out T-jolt. Fire is especially handy, because most Pikas have the tendancy to Jolt and just fly after it (in the air). Aim the fire at the jolt and hit Pika.
Up-B is too good here, it was about 25-40% of all damage output I did. It was very unpunishable, and this too clanks with T-jolt.
Choose a small, flat stage like Smashville. Battlfield was way too hard, Pikachu's U-air destroyed me there. I'd stay away there :O Big flat stages was where I was good.
I'll continue now, trying out Norfair.
EDIT: Norfair was a meh-stage. It had the platforms for Pika to get you on, but also a low ceiling which quite helped. Pikachu can recover from almost anywhere on that stage.
OH YEA, Pikachu has a BIIIIG advantage over Bowser in the air.
neji32
Smash Lord
if the pika stays in the air its going to be hard for bowser to do much, and if you spam fire too much then the pika will catch on and either wait till your fire is done and look for an opening or jump over the fire with a tjolt
neji32
Smash Lord
if you get hit with usmash or utilt dodging thuner will be really hard
Bowser King
Have It Your Way
Fire doesn't finish. It just get's really small and IIRC even then it's usable to cancel t-bolt.
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Bowser King
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
By then I think Pika could've jump to T-jolt Bowsers head, not covered by Fire anymore.
Bowser King
Have It Your Way
T-jolt is pretty slow in the air, I'm sure you could cancel it by that time. Though, it lacks range in the air so a pika COULD come close and land one.
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Bowser King