A King's Quest For Respect: The Bowser Matchup Thread

[Vex Kasrani]

Zair is concentrated gay.

It's a ***** afterall.

 

[Rizen]

It's a ***** afterall.

For once Link is the one who can be a cheap sonofa*****! Zair's the only truly cheap thing we have. Good MU discussion Bowsers; if we're done I'll unsubscribe this thread.

 

[B!squick]

Lol, we didn't really discuss much though. Just everyone saying it's even. But I guess that'll work. Now onward to

 

[_clinton]

That comic made me smile. ^_^

 

[Phiddlesticks]

man, quoting the image was totally necessary there

i just wouldnt have known which comic you were talking about otherwise

 

[B!squick]

Must you always be such a sarcastic sally?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

It's the main reason I love Phiddle.

 

[Cassius.]

Phiddle is a sarcastic pro imo

Basically for the Ganon MU all I do is sit still.

I should do that for every matchup [not]

But really, you can make Ganondorf come to you. I know that much. And unlike CF he's not retardedly fast so I don't go "WOAG WTFSON" when he leaps at me

 

[-MCT-]

But really, you can make Ganondorf come to you. I know that much. And unlike CF he's not retardedly fast so I don't go "WOAG WTFSON" when he leaps at me

True, I got a couple of knees in my face because I thought "Oh well it's Captain Priority, let's just ftilt him to death". But Ganondorf is totally ***** by Fire Breath, moreso when he's offstage.

 

[B!squick]

Firebreath doesn't make much of a difference on stage at all. Ganon has ample time to punish it sometimes, ESPECIALLY if you get greedy with it and decay the flames. And off stage, unless you have a stock lead, you WILL get Murder Choked to your death if you use Firebreath. It is unavoidable. And he can SideB seemingly anywhere above Bowser to land it. It's way too easy to land on Bowser's giant, George Lopez sized head.

Also, it's jaw droppingly easy for Ganon to gimp Bowser. It almost rivals what Mario and MK can do.

 

[-MCT-]

Firebreath doesn't make much of a difference on stage at all. Ganon has ample time to punish it sometimes, ESPECIALLY if you get greedy with it and decay the flames. And off stage, unless you have a stock lead, you WILL get Murder Choked to your death if you use Firebreath. It is unavoidable. And he can SideB seemingly anywhere above Bowser to land it. It's way too easy to land on Bowser's giant, George Lopez sized head.

Also, it's jaw droppingly easy for Ganon to gimp Bowser. It almost rivals what Mario and MK can do.

Well, the only competent Ganon I've played was online, and I really don't remember getting Choked much, at least when I angled the fire up. Of course I'm not going to just sit there and hold B, but I find it a very annoying way for Ganon to get his evil plans interrupted.

 

[Cassius.]

You guys really should just try the "sit there like a Bowser (ie what he's meant to be--a lazy fatass)" strategy.

The only time Ganon could potentially force you to approach is when he gets a % lead on you. At that point you have to be really careful, because if/when Ganon punishes, he punishes hard. However, if you're not in that scenario, just take it easy...lol

Just imagine if Ganon had a projectile...good Lord.

 

[B!squick]

Ganon's DTilt is great at shield poking and amazingly safe on block. I dare anyone of you challenge TP to some friendlies. Seriously, this is not a fun match-up if Ganon does it right.

 

[Bahamut777]

I play Godzilla every week, so I think I can help a bit here.

Bowser x Ganon is a very even MU. No complains there.
Ganon can easily FAir above Fire Breath and knock you away enough for not being punished.
Ganon can easily stomp Bowser more than once unless he uses Fortress and end up wide upen for some more ****.
Gerudo WILL **** you. Ganon can chain choke very easily due to Bowser's stupid GU attack that can be easily shielded; short rolls and a very predictable animation on all of them. If you chose to stay there on the ground or get up by standing, you'll be FSmashed on the face.
Ganon tends to either gimp Bowser or throw him in an low angle (almost always with FTilt after a Gerudo) so he can dirt his boots with turtle-dragon blood.

Bowser can survive abnormally high % (for Ganon). You can start worrying when you reach 160%.
Bowser's DI makes it even difficult to KO him, so keep your cool and make the crowd yell when you survive an semi-stalled Ganon's FSmash at 210%.
Bowser can GR Ganon into Jab-> SideB guaranteed, FTilt guaranteed and Air relase -> FAir guaranteed. DTilt GR can be shielded. Jab -> DownB CAN work, but it can be airdodged at mid. percents.
Bowser's FAir gimp is very effective on this MU, although risky. You'll either gimp Ganon to his death due to his lack of recovery, or you'll be Ganoncided if you hesitate.
UAir will be a good killing move since it's rarely stalled and it is very powerfull. I think it kills at 90% with no DI. 120% with moderate DI and WK momentum cancel. UTilt can also be usefull.
Godzilla likes to finish the FAir Gimp with a BAir to finish the job. Like UAir, it'll rarely be stalled and it's very powerful. Keep an eye for using it.

I would give this MU a even 50:50; 55:45 Bowser at most.
Maybe I can record some matches and upload them.

 

[Clai]

Ganon's DTilt is great at shield poking and amazingly safe on block. I dare anyone of you challenge TP to some friendlies. Seriously, this is not a fun match-up if Ganon does it right.

I would love to see you and TP play each other, as Vex and I never had our matches recorded.

I don't remember too much about my matches with Vex, but I do know that a combination of Bowser making smart use of klaw-hopping to become very maneuverable in the air and grab-release shenanigans makes this matchup a bit tough for Ganondorf. It also doesn't help that Bowser can Fortress OOS and beat anything that Ganondorf attempts to put on the durable turtle. Ganondorf is going to have a hard time challenging Bowser's approaches, but Ganondorf can easily put Bowser in bad situations that can lead to either lots of damage or low-angle gimps.

Ratio: either 60:40 or 55:45 in Bowser's favor

 

[thexsunrosered]

didn't get a chance to play vex at pound :[

 

[TP]

If any Bowsers want to play me, it has to be this week, ending on Sunday. I'm back from college for a short time. Show me what you got.

 

[B!squick]

I'm free all day tomorrow TP, er, today.

 

[B!squick]

Sorry to interrupt this riveting discussion that's going on, but I think I'll go ahead and put down 55-45 Bowser's favor if no one has anything else to add.

 

[Flayl]

... 55-45

with

ganon

=////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

 

[Godzillabr]

its one of ganon best matches, the front B is hard to deal with bowser.
our roll sucks D:
watch out for the air down B from the ganon when trying to Uair him.

and also when on the edge, to not get suicided.
grab release > klaw work fine, but I can't Dtilt out of a release(dunno if its impossible or I don't buffer right)...

55/45 bowser, agreed >.<

 

[Shök]

I thought Bowser had a good advantage in this match. Who knew.

 

[Flayl]

So did I Dikastis, but we don't have the last word here apparently.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

He does, lol at 55:45

 

[MrEh]

Ganon's a beast.

 

[B!squick]

Disagreements on 55-45? Elaborate. :O

 

[Shök]

Perhaps we need another Matchup by A2ZOMG.

A2ZOMG Matchups are 0-100.

 

[Cassius.]

inb4a2zomggivesaonelinerpost

 

[B!squick]

Lol, I have no doubt he could theorycraft it into 0-100 Ganon.

 

[Cassius.]

Ganon can probably Warlock Punch Bowser through Battlefield platforms.

Down Tilt probably wrecks Bowser's recovery nowhere near the ledge as well, lmao.

 

[KillerJawz]

Ganon can probably Warlock Punch Bowser through Battlefield platforms.

I feel an unnatural urge to test this :3

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Ganondorf's down smash on Battlefield's platforms creates an UNSTOPPABLE FORCEFIELD that is impenetrable by anything Bowser can do

 

[MrEh]

I feel an unnatural urge to test this :3

He can't.

But it's Bowser. You could probably Dtilt or Dsmash him through the platform. lol

 

[Cassius.]

With a hurtbox the size of a small country, anything's possible.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Bowser has slightly more consistent ground punish options and moves faster, while Ganondorf has a more flexible aerial game and more powerful gimps and juggles.

Ganon is slow, so playing with retreats and reacting to his approach fundamentally defeats him (this is a matchup where spotdodging isn't a particularly bad idea for Bowser), but at the same time it's not easy for Bowser to approach Ganon either. U-air handles pretty much any air approach, and D-tilt spacing is pretty good at punishing most of Bowser's stuff on the ground. Generally speaking this matchup is pretty much a big spacing war until a juggle/edgeguard opportunity arises.

The main reason why I would think Bowser might have the slight advantage is just because his Jab is not nearly as easily punished as Ganon's, which is a more readily available poke option than Ganon's B-air or D-tilt, which generally implies that Bowser more consistently punishes ground mistakes than Ganondorf, and even though Ganondorf gimps the hell out of Bowser like it's his job (Sparta kicks into U-air and D-air edgeguards for fun times), he gets gimped easily as well too.

Otherwise I dunno, this matchup is really really close. I think BF is better for Ganon than Bowser in this matchup since it offers more options to deal with edgetrapping, one of Ganondorf's big problems in general, and at any rate Ganondorf has more powerful juggle options.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Uwaooooh bowsers got some bad match ups.
Almost makes me reconsider. Almost. Hes still very beast. =w=

Sorry for crap post, but I just started playing as bowser lately. It seems like everything and anything with a projectile will give him trouble. .-.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I would actually like to rediscuss Metaknight if you guys are fine with that, and I'll actually say things lol.

 

[Cassius.]

Since we discussed Ganon and EVERY OTHER CHARACTER YES?

I guess we can. I'm gunning for 55-45 Bowser.

And I told you guys from the start, just sitting there and letting Ganon approach, then reacting accordingly works fine. It's not the best strategy considering one of Ganondorf's moves can shift the % lead to his, eventually forcing you to approach, but it works. Sometimes. lol

Be assured when you have the % lead you don't need to move at all.

I mean what would you have to say about MK? Have you rediscovered the MU? lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

I should add, Bowser is one of those lucky characters who Ganon happens to be able to fullhop U-air/N-air from the ground. Which importantly avoids Up-B and shieldgrab.

 

[Cassius.]

Well, thanks for telling us...now we can just FTilt. lol

I will say that most Bowsers don't try to UpB everything that hits their shield <_< because then it becomes predictable...