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A Taste Of Buffalo 3 Results+Shoutouts Thread! 10/3

marth126

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
456
Location
Buffalo, NY
Hey Good TOurnament Everyone

BRAWL Doubles


1)Asylum+Cura
2)XI Jinjo+Nitro I
3)Tim+Brian
4)Ryan+Matt
5)Victor+Adam
5)Bry+Pdiddy
7)Xavier+Kymani




BRAWL Singles


1)JesiahTEG
2)Pika Pika
3)Cura
4)Goodies
5)Bry(My bad)
5)Cross
7)Matt Pilla
7)Asylum
9)Stewart
9)ZOMG Rob(Zo MY GOD HE CAME IN 9TH)
9)Tim W.
9)Kozi
13)Scott
13)SSJ
13)Mike(Kepo)
13)Pdiddy
17)Amanda(?)
17)Altarian( Thanks 4 all the help)
17)Amam
17)Elijah
17)DRD
17)Victor
17)Ryan
17)Shaun
25)Steve
25)Brian W


Melee Singles


1)JesiahTEG
2)Pika Pika
3)KoJ
4)ZOMG Rob
5)Hoop The Weenie
5)Goodies
7)Craig
7)Eric
9)Black Licorice(Noob)
9)Asylum
9)Kozimoto
13)SSJ

See you all next time:)
 

Gaia_x

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
2,085
Resereved to shouts

Edit>

Shoutoutz!

Asylum- Fun teaming with someone i dont even know. We both had our clutch moments in dubz and we both had our bad ones. Good job today. Aside from melee singles.... and brawl singles...

XI Jinjo+Nitro I- Hey

JesiahTEG- Everytime we play i always win first then you come back second match and so fourth. Always close when we play. If only my cgs on snake was better i may have walked away with it. Clutch as always. Good sets. Expect more gay cps next time though. I know your weakness!!

Pika Pika- We didnt play again.

Cura- Made 80$

Goodies- lost to cura twice . Again!

Bry- Nice Job Syracuse Moving up in placings! CNY!

Cross- Nice Ike but didnt know the IC match up to good! Lol upload our matches!

ZOMG Rob- I admit i under-estimated you at first which is why i did dittos. Almost cost me a game so i made sure to Use Ic next match Lol. Fun matches though

Altarian- Try and upload the Matches you have on your wii then send the links to me then ill post them here so that they will at least be on first page.

Very fun tourney for those i missed in shoutoutz good game and all that stuff.

See you guys at the next 1.
 

Kantō

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
2,123
Location
Syracuse, NY
i wasnt scolding you or anything ha i just looked at the list like 3 times before i saw my name. its all good :)
 

kozimoto

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
281
Location
Niagara Falls NY. US , Strasbourg, France
alright im so glad i could make it to this.

KoJ - I'm known for my pro edguarding with roy =)

Asylum - i really wished i hadent played you first round like last time..... whats r the odds

Pdiddy - Not that bad for ur 2nd tourney. learn marth MU its mad important 4 diddy

Goodies - congrats on 4th. funnest match played all day.

Bry - Wish i coulda played u

Tim W - the last match coulda went either way. u gave a new meaning to edguarding

Eric - Mushroom Kingdom 2 is legit. but seriously i could tell u didnt even try.
 

altairian

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
1,594
Location
Ballston Spa, NY
So since pikapika and jesiahteg are spazzes, no replays of the finals got saved :p

I think the only matches anyone bothered saving the replays of were early dubs rounds, but I'll take a look and see tomorrow or something.

I'll do some shoutouts later, gonna sleep now, yay for working sundays -_-
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: Kelvin, stop butt dialing me while you're playing Smash, LOL!

I was in the lab all day like, "WTF is he butt dialing me for and why can I hear him charging downsmash so much?!"

LOOOOOOOOOOOL GGs, I need to talk to you later when you're free by the way! :D
 

soma ghost

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
307
Location
WNY
I wish I could have shown up alot earlier for friendlies. I killed my self atleast once or twice every single match and I cant even count the amount of times I effed up up-b'ing out of my shield. Just wish I could have worked out the nerves before the tourney started.
I had fun. It was my first tourney and everyone was cool. Pika and Teg were spazzes though, specially teg.lol
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Pika and Teg were spazzes though, specially teg.lol
If you think that was bad, then you should have seen when I won 10 tournaments in a row vs Pika over a span of months, and then he beat me for the first time on Valentines day, with my girlfriend watching.
 

Kantō

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
2,123
Location
Syracuse, NY
shoutoutz:

Myst- great games, work on that wario a lil more, hes very good

R- nice playing you, good job. but dont use lucas anymore, you are better with kirby lol

stewert- sry about the chaingrabs, but its a tourney lol. great games man, your a good player.

Cura- 1st for teams and 3rd for singles! rep that 'cuse name!

Scott- stop switching som many characters!!!

Pdiddy- told you your diddy was getting better!

Pikapika- your just too good man! ill beat ya someday lol. great playing with ya again.

JesiahTEG- i dont thnk i had the chance to play you this time. but it looks like your snake is still on its A game.

Marth126_ Great Tourney man. had a really fun time. and the drive wasnt bad at all.

Altairain- We didnt even do pika dittoz! next time lol glad to see a familiar face.

goodies- awseome diddy. you took 4th from me so ill have to try even harder next time! GG's

asylum- your a good smasher man. congrats on 1st for teams.

Cross- nice to meet you. are you uploading any of those vids from the tourney?

if i missed anyone who i played with or met my bad, but over all i had a fun time and a great experience!
ill be at the next one! so you all better be ready lol.
 

TheKneeOfJustice

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
1,307
Location
(KoJapes) Rochester, NY
Shoutouts:

JTeg: Good shiz again dude.

Pika: Last time you ever beat me in melee. I'll just ban jiggs and keep the set interesting next time.

Goodies: Quit winning if you never play.

ZOMG Rob: Awesome set, and try to get PC to come to Pound 4!

Alexi: You lost to a tech rolling Falco.

Goggles: Thank god you didn't come.

Altarian: Stalking us to Arby's for the win. Hope your drive back wasn't too boring.
 

altairian

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
1,594
Location
Ballston Spa, NY
JesiahTEG - Can't believe I actually won that norfair game. That definitely proved...something, lol

Pika Pika - I'm only stalking you so I can steal your pika secrets >_>

Cura - good **** again man, stop missing so many cg's though :O

Bry - or should I say Bree :p Nice hanging with you again, we'll have to do some pika dittos at the next syracuse tourney

Cross - nice meeting ya man, sorry I didn't end up getting any replays, they both spammed start like crazy at the end of every game :p

Matt Pilla - Your wolf spacing is **** good >< Hope to play you again sometime

Asylum - I hear you're really good at 64, I'll have to play you sometime I was a beast at that game XD

Scott - Keep working on other characters if you like them, but stick with your main in tourneys!

Pdiddy - You're good with diddy, work on mixing up your followups on bananas and definitely learn to glide toss!

Rochester guys - I was gonna skip that rest stop but Arby's is too much win :p Was nice chilling with you guys for a bit =)

Random bracket - **** you >_>
 

BluePeachy100

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
2,148
Location
Carnival Hell
I honestly don't have many shoutouts because I only did Friendlies. Most people seemed to be bags, or in a douchy mood, actually. >_>

SynC: I knew your Ike was sick! I wish I got a chance to play against it more. ^^

Sky: You made me hate Sheik. =( Gopod games, though. Yay! I did get somewhat better.... I guess. ^^;

Sky's friends: Good games. Bair> Fair FTW. :3 I also feel bad for you, having to put up with that Sheik eveyrday. XD

Random Teams ppl: Yay! I had a good moment, Falcon edgeguard was soooooo pro. :3 I was happy.

RTF: Thanks to you, I EFFING HATE FOX!

Moonshine: You're going to jail for ****** me.... on multiple cases. >_> Good games though... Sorry I couldn't give you a challenge. ^^;

Myst: You did good, even though I don't know what place you got. O.o

I'd say the same thing for Keyo, but he doesn't have an account. Uhm.... if the bracknet next time isn't so wack(no offense to the players, but it was really small) I'll get into it.
 

Mario Moonshine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Messages
466
Location
Buffalol
Shoutouts:

JTeg: Good shiz again dude.

Pika: Last time you ever beat me in melee. I'll just ban jiggs and keep the set interesting next time.

Goodies: Quit winning if you never play.

ZOMG Rob: Awesome set, and try to get PC to come to Pound 4!

Alexi: You lost to a tech rolling Falco.


Goggles: Thank god you didn't come.

Altarian: Stalking us to Arby's for the win. Hope your drive back wasn't too boring.
You have no idea how hard I'd **** you sober, do you? I know how to powershield. $30 MM at the next one?
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: GET EM 'LEX

Also, hit me up on AIM when you get a chance, please? I have a favor to ask. :D
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
It's ok bro, you should see me when I'm playing at more than 50% of what I can actually do. You'd be amazed.

Yannick, quit instigating...

:yoshi: DON'T LET HIM TALK TO YOU LIKE THAT KOJ WTF?!
 

TheKneeOfJustice

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
1,307
Location
(KoJapes) Rochester, NY
You have no idea how hard I'd **** you sober, do you? I know how to powershield. $30 MM at the next one?
DON'T LET HIM TALK TO YOU LIKE THAT KOJ WTF?!
Dude, If I played against you like it actually you mattered, you wouldn't matter. I'm not some scrub you can intimidate. You used to be good. Those days are long over.

This is the end of it. I'm not going to waste more time on someone that thinks Captain Falcon is a better character Sheik.
 

Goodies

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
136
Location
Rochester
Rochester

JesiahTEG: Gratz on 1st in both singles events and thanks for Melee fun at your apartment. Love that game and you guys.

PikaPika: Gratz on 2nd and thanks for inviting me. Otherwise, I would have played Warhammer all day! Fun Melee match too. I almost made you walk home. :) I wished I played you in Brawl though.

KoJ: Gratz on 3rd in Melee singles. I wish I played vs you though. Would have been a fun set :) I don't play Brawl and have no idea how I did so well :)

Rob: You should have entered and stomped KoJ.

Goggles: I wanted to MK ditto you :)


Buffalo

Marth126 and Hosts: Thanks for hosting a fun tourney. Definitely the highlight of my weekend.

Alexei: I'm was a pleasure seeing you again and hope to attend more Buffalo tourneys for more lawls and friendlies.

Asylum: Thanks for the fun matches. I'm sorry that you lost to me twice. :laugh: You seemed really happy maybe because of your gf. I'm glad things are going well for you. You guys are growing up too fast for me.

Bry: Good pikachu, but as you can tell Im pretty good vs that little rat. Definitely one of my highlight matches. Thank you for the fun.

Kozimoto: Nice Marth and I was hoping that continue with another neutral stage so I could bust out the Peach on you!

Elijah: Yeah I play mostly Melee and wasn't expecting to do well at all. You're a pretty nice guy and hope to get in some friendlies next time.

ZOMG Rob: Probably the most fun match I had at the tourney. Awesome Jiggz btw! I hope I didn't discourage you from using Falco from our friendly:laugh:. You seemed pretty nervous doing our set. I hope my pulling two bombs in one match and my amazing ability to come back didn't have something to do with that! Keep up the Jiggz! Also, love that golden cap!

Kirby player that MM me: Thanks for the money and fun. I used it for Arby's, so it was used well. I really didn't want to MM, but thought it was a good side event for the lawls.


Syracuse/Other NY region:

Cura: Thanks for knocking me out twice again! I dont know why you were nervous about my MK. I dont even play Brawl. LOL. Awesome player and gratz on 3rd in singles and 1st in doubles. You should play Melee so I can knock you of the tourney.

Pikachu Stalker: We all know you are trying to steal Pikachu secrets from PikaPika. Dirty little rat! Saw you sneaking in a ruffy in PikaPika's Shake at Arbys
 

Goodies

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
136
Location
Rochester
Cura you did beat my Falco a month ago. I'll actually practice playing this game and MM your D3 for the lawls.
 

Mario Moonshine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Messages
466
Location
Buffalol
Dude, If I played against you like it actually you mattered, you wouldn't matter. I'm not some scrub you can intimidate. You used to be good. Those days are long over.

This is the end of it. I'm not going to waste more time on someone that thinks Captain Falcon is a better character Sheik.
Learn correct sentence structure that follows a logical flow, you arrogant waste of English syllables.. I construct better sentences while drunk.

Nice way to wussy out of the money match. Surely a selfish person in pursuit of their own furthering in the smash social hierarchy (a desire which you demonstrate by putting other players down without provocation) could use the 30 extra dollars from an ignorant and foolish scrub like me.

Captain Falcon has 4 attributes that make him better Sheik at even higher levels than smash is at right now.

First I would like to mention that he has the fastest running speed in the game, a trait that allows him to weave in and out of attack range faster than any other character. Surely you're familiar with dash dancing, Steffan. While Marth's dash dance is considered the best, Falcon's is practically a tie to it, because his speed compensates for not having Marth's range and not leaning away as much as marth does. We can say that Falcon's is 2nd best, but we're not disputing Falcon being better than Marth in this post, obviously. Waiting for an attack and dash dancing out and back in with a grab is the easiest way to get an opening in smash. Kind of odd that the character that's 2nd best at getting the most useful opening isn't higher than a character that's not even in the top 5 of that list, isn't it?

Second attribute is that he has the fastest horizontal movement speed in the air in the game. You've been introduced to Jigglypuff, haven't you? How well she can punish by weaving in and out of attack range in the air and moving a significant distance horizontally in the process. Picture that trait increased, and added on top of Falcon's ability to cover distances on the ground. Apply it to spacing around shields, air control after airdodging or upBing during recovery, and ability to punish, and you have a trait that can hold more usefulness than even his dash dancing.

Next up is Falcon's undeniable fast falling speed that allows him to combo aerials together like nothing, and to quickly change dynamics of his combat from air to ground. When you quickly switch between fastest air speed and fastest ground speed you are bound to have an effective fighter, in Falcon's case this requires a lot of skill and reaction time, but holds greater potential than what Sheik has, even though Sheik is easier at lower levels of skill.

It should be noted that his dash speed, hozirontal aerial speed, and fastfalling increase the effective range of his moves in THREE ways. Think of how much more range Falcon's uair and nair have, and they are only slightly slower than Sheik's aerials.

Fourth characteristic that makes Falcon better than Sheik is his weight. Weight means a character receives less stun when being hit, especially at low %, and with smash DI to the ground, he can punish anything Sheik hits him with via Gentleman to grab to death. In the case of Bowser, weight doesn't help him, because he has slow move speed, and slow jumps, as well as large size, this is true to a lesser extent of other heavy characters. A useful case study for weight would DK going up in tiers, because his move speed isn't particularly slow, he has good grab range, decently fast aerials (minus fair), and weight definitely helps him.

Why do you think Falcon doesn't hold greater potential than Sheik if he bests her as far as best options go? Is it because he's not as "well-rounded"? I disagree with that logic. For example, Luigi has a higher average move speed than Fox (check the frame data), but no one is going to argue that Fox isn't faster, because if his best options like shine are taken advantage of he's going to be using faster moves than Luigi is, it's kind of like that with Falcon, he becomes a better character once you utilize his best options correctly that surpass Sheik's best options. What's a better option than Falcon's dash dance plus movement speed?

Maybe you'd have better grasp of how movement vectors affect a character's potential if you had better visualization of space in general. How about you study quantum physics and linear algebra, Steffan? That would be my recommendation. Good day.
 

TheKneeOfJustice

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
1,307
Location
(KoJapes) Rochester, NY
Oh you're finished? Well allow me to retort.

Sentence structure doesn't mean anything in the larger scheme of this debate. Second, I never wussed out of your challenge, I'll accept it. It will be the last time you open your mouth to someone.

As for your wall of text, simple movement factors are sadly not enough to make Falcon better than Sheik. Every character currently listed as him may not out do him in those attributes, but their own attributes and physics combined outweigh his options, as do their priority. Ask the best Falcon mains, one of which you are not, and they will all likely tell you that a) Falcon is only dominating in a position of a tech chase or auto combo, and b) Is not nearly as good as Sheik is.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphTto5RzLc

I don't even want to hear the player skill argument. Darkrain is extremely experienced and knows how to play that match-up. But look at what happens when a player who is equally versed in the match makes Falcon's strengths count for less than nothing.

Also, I don't need to study anything. You lost to me, perhaps it is you who needs to study.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
I'm not taking sides here, but I have to comment on this.

Learn correct sentence structure that follows a logical flow, you arrogant waste of English syllables.. I construct better sentences while drunk.
I'm not arguing against that.

Nice way to wussy out of the money match. Surely a selfish person in pursuit of their own furthering in the smash social hierarchy (a desire which you demonstrate by putting other players down without provocation) could use the 30 extra dollars from an ignorant and foolish scrub like me.

Captain Falcon has 4 attributes that make him better Sheik at even higher levels than smash is at right now.

First I would like to mention that he has the fastest running speed in the game, a trait that allows him to wean in and out of attack range faster than any other character. Surely you're familiar with dash dancing, Steffan. While Marth's dash dance is considered the best, Falcon's is practically a tie to it, because his speed compensates for not having Marth's range and not leaning away as much as marth does. We can say that Falcon's is 2nd best, but we're not disputing Falcon being better than Marth in this post, obviously. Waiting for an attack and dash dancing out and back in with a grab is the easiest way to get an opening in smash. Kind of odd that the character that's 2nd best at getting the most useful opening isn't higher than a character that's not even in the top 5 of that list, isn't it?
This is actually a really bad argument, and the entire core argument is just false. You argue that getting a grab is an amazing tactic in smash, which it is. However, just because Falcon's DD is better than Sheik's DOES NOT mean in any way shape of form that he's better at getting grabs.

Sheik's grab range DESTROYS Falcon's, making it way easier to get a grab with Sheik than Falcon. Next, Sheik's Wavedash also DESTROYS Falcon's, so WD backwards into a grab is way better than Falcon's. Not to mention, at high levels of play people know how to deal with DD grabbing to the point where, yeah your DD is going to help, but I rather have a large grab range in order to capitalize on whiffed moves, poorly spaced moves on my shield, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Crouch Cancel grabbing. Falcon's grab range is so poor he can't CC grab.

Falcon's DD is good, but it's nothing compared to the fact that Sheik's grab range makes it just as easy to get a grab, she can CC grab way easier, her WD is amazing for WD back and forward into grabs.

In short: Sheik has an easier time getting grabs than Falcon.


Second attribute is that he has the fastest horizontal movement speed in the air in the game. You've been introduced to Jigglypuff, haven't you? How well she can punish by weaning in and out of attack range in the air and moving a significant distance horizontally in the process. Picture that trait increased, and added on top of Falcon's ability to cover distances on the ground. Apply it to spacing around shields, air control after airdodging or upBing during recovery, and ability to punish, and you have a trait that can hold more usefulness than even his dash dancing.
Wow bro, I cannot believe you used this as an argument LOL. Let's see, what's the point of horizontal air movement? To hit your opponent, right.

Using Jigglypuff as an example is ********. It's not just her horizontal movement speed in the air that allows her to hit her opponent, she has 5 jumps dude. More importantly, she has PRIORITY that can trade with or beat anything.

Falcon's horizontal movement speed is useful for 2 things: Comboing, and chasing people with Nairs.

It doesn't do anything in regards to actually hitting the opponent bro. Everything he has can be CC'd or outprioritized with ease. You're better DD camping which loses to projectiles anyways.


Next up is Falcon's undeniable fast falling speed that allows him to combo aerials together like nothing, and to quickly change dynamics of his combat from air to ground. When you quickly switch between fastest air speed and fastest ground speed you are bound to have an effective fighter, in Falcon's case this requires a lot of skill and reaction time, but holds greater potential than what Sheik has, even though Sheik is easier at lower levels of skill.
Sheik has infinitely more potential than Falcon does. She's better on stage and offstage. It's 10 million times easier to hit people to start a combo than Falcon, because of her priority, the range and safety of her moves, and the fact that she can force people to approach using needles, and then punish the approach. Falcon's forced to approach with low priority aerials and grabs, which can only be utilized if the opponent messes up.


It should be noted that his dash speed, hozirontal aerial speed, and fastfalling increase the effective range of his moves in THREE ways. Think of how much more range Falcon's uair and nair have, and they are only slightly slower than Sheik's aerials.
Nair is a good approach for Falcon. That's about it bro, and even then you can CC it and time moves to beat the Nair. For example: You can time Fox's Nair 3 different ways to beat Falcon's nair. Before the first hit of Nair comes out, in between the nairs, or just space it over the second hit. It's much harder to beat Sheik's tilts, as they're extremely high priority.


Fourth characteristic that makes Falcon better than Sheik is his weight. Weight means a character receives less stun when being hit, especially at low %, and with smash DI to the ground, he can punish anything Sheik hits him with via Gentleman to grab to death. In the case of Bowser, weight doesn't help him, because he has slow move speed, and slow jumps, as well as large size, this is true to a lesser extent of other heavy characters. A useful case study for weight would DK going up in tiers, because his move speed isn't particularly slow, he has good grab range, decently fast aerials (minus fair), and weight definitely helps him.
Falcon's weight helps him SLIGHTLY in the fact that he gets combo'd less hard than Sheik. But, Sheik also has Nair and Fair to mash so that if you're a frame off, you're gonna get hit by it. Falcon can't do anything like that.

Also, if you're talking about getting hit and punishing, Falcon's tech roll is HORRIBLE, which usually means that at low percents he takes the most damage out of any character vs Sheik, considering her tech chase amazing.


Why do you think Falcon doesn't hold greater potential than Sheik if he bests her as far as best options go? Is it because he's not as "well-rounded"? I disagree with that logic. For example, Luigi has a higher average move speed than Fox (check the frame data), but no one is going to argue that Fox isn't faster, because if his best options like shine are taken advantage of he's going to be using faster moves than Luigi is, it's kind of like that with Falcon, he becomes a better character once you utilize his best options correctly that surpass Sheik's best options. What's a better option than Falcon's dash dance plus movement speed?
Just a few more random points.

*Sheik's edgeguarding is incredible, Falcon's is not. That alone makes all the difference in the world.

*Sheik's priority is way better than Falcon's, allowing for easier defensive options and up close combat, which Falcon blows at.

*Falcon's best hope is to hope for his opponent to mess up and then combo them to death via tech chasing and bad DI. You can guess wrong on tech chasing. Sheik has those options plus better combat on the ground and edge guarding.

It's a no brainer dude.

Maybe you'd have better grasp of how movement vectors affect a character's potential if you had better visualization of space in general. How about you study quantum physics and linear algebra, Steffan? That would be my recommendation. Good day.[/QUOTE]

Those factors count little in comparison to things that actually matter when fighting. You ignored the important things and tried to zone on in characteristics that are ignored because, well again, they don't matter.

Still love you though.
 

Mario Moonshine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Messages
466
Location
Buffalol
Oh you're finished? Well allow me to retort.

Sentence structure doesn't mean anything in the larger scheme of this debate. Second, I never wussed out of your challenge, I'll accept it. It will be the last time you open your mouth to someone.

As for your wall of text, simple movement factors are sadly not enough to make Falcon better than Sheik. Every character currently listed as him may not out do him in those attributes, but their own attributes and physics combined outweigh his options, as do their priority. Ask the best Falcon mains, one of which you are not, and they will all likely tell you that a) Falcon is only dominating in a position of a tech chase or auto combo, and b) Is not nearly as good as Sheik is.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphTto5RzLc

I don't even want to hear the player skill argument. Darkrain is extremely experienced and knows how to play that match-up. But look at what happens when a player who is equally versed in the match makes Falcon's strengths count for less than nothing.

Also, I don't need to study anything. You lost to me, perhaps it is you who needs to study.
Who said I was finished? I think following what people say is a more reliable way to determine that, not coming up with that idea because you hallucinated, or imagined it, or whatever.

Sentence structure is what lets everyone know that you think at a less intellectually complex level than I do. That level of intellectualism applied to smash is how I became good at the game to begin with. It's what makes Mew2King good as well.

To say Mew2King and Darkrain are of the same level is ludicrous! It's like saying Darkrain and drephen are equal and darkrain only wins against him because he's playing the better character. Mew2King is a better player than Darkrain, and his Falcon is better than Darkrain's Falcon, but not as good as his own Sheik. There's no mystery here, and that video hardly constitutes a "proof". You need to study the definition of proofs, by the way. It's a logical sequence of statements where one leads into another, with sufficient elaboration to establish a fact, rather than say "I'm right because I'm right and because I beat you while you were drunk". I'm surprised you are allowed on the internet forums. They should really have smashboards say "I confirm that my IQ is over 60" in addition to "I confirm my age to be 13 or over", it would help keep debates free of people like you.

You should re-read my Falcon essay again, it doesn't just mention "mere movement factors"; perhaps if you had better reading comprehension skills, you MIGHT have been able to see that I mentioned his moves as well, and how he can counter-attack with them.
 

ZOMGROB

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
10
Location
Buffalo &amp; Westchester, NY
Great tourny guys! This was my first actual tournament in a very long time. I'm glad it was at my school. I'm definitely going to try and hit some bigger ones with my friends sometime soon.

Here are a few brief shout outs. If I miss anyone, it's just because it slipped my mind.

JesiahTEG- Your Marth is serious business. Forward throw to tipper will forever be my weakness. Very impressive.

PikaPika- You got the skillz man. Even though we only got one friendly match with each other, that Pikachu was very scary. Quite fun; you almost had me. I want more in the future.

KoJ- Awesome matches. Your fox gives me a real run for my money. I get a little too greedy with those rests sometimes ahah. Btw, PC told me to tell you he says hey.

Cura- Your Dedede is great. That ditto we had was a very fun time. I can't really say the Ice Climbers match was quite as fun though, LOL. Mad skillz.

Alexei- Falco has always been your weakness and I think you could of done better than you did. But you still own me every day anyway. :p

Goodies- Great set of matches. The Jiggs vs Peach matchup is always a long chore. You lived to almost 200% with every stock. DI fah dayz.

Cross- Dammit Eric, gratz on beating me. I'm an *** for SDing so much ahaha.


Was a great time and I look forward to seeing everyone at a future event. :D
 

Goodies

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
136
Location
Rochester
KoJ vs Alexei MM should be exciting next event. This should be recorded. One of you should play Falcon and the other Sheik LOL!
 

Mario Moonshine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Messages
466
Location
Buffalol
This is actually a really bad argument, and the entire core argument is just false. You argue that getting a grab is an amazing tactic in smash, which it is. However, just because Falcon's DD is better than Sheik's DOES NOT mean in any way shape of form that he's better at getting grabs.

Sheik's grab range DESTROYS Falcon's, making it way easier to get a grab with Sheik than Falcon. Next, Sheik's Wavedash also DESTROYS Falcon's, so WD backwards into a grab is way better than Falcon's. Not to mention, at high levels of play people know how to deal with DD grabbing to the point where, yeah your DD is going to help, but I rather have a large grab range in order to capitalize on whiffed moves, poorly spaced moves on my shield, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Crouch Cancel grabbing. Falcon's grab range is so poor he can't CC grab.
CC gentleman to grab, or CC smash DI (towards them) to grab. Do you think that's sufficient to disprove the blatantly ridiculous claim of "Falcon CANT cc grab"? I do. You know how Falcon has faster horizontal aerial movement speed as well? That means smash DI + air control can actually potentially get him FARTHER to a point he wants to DI to to punish off of a CC than Sheik.

Falcon's DD is good, but it's nothing compared to the fact that Sheik's grab range makes it just as easy to get a grab, she can CC grab way easier, her WD is amazing for WD back and forward into grabs.

In short: Sheik has an easier time getting grabs than Falcon.
I'm not arguing that Falcon's WD is crap, but WDing in general is crap compared to dashing and walking, because you are vulnerable at least for the first 10 frames. WDing should primarily be used for turning around, or alternating between walking and running, depending on whether you want to do standing move, running move, aerial. Wavelanding too, I suppose, but that assumes both characters are already in the air, so if both wavelands are short it isn't drastically different. Remember that Falcon has enough horizontal speed to punish Sheik's wavedashes.

Wow bro, I cannot believe you used this as an argument LOL. Let's see, what's the point of horizontal air movement? To hit your opponent, right.
No, the point of that is to not get hit. Remember Isai? Don't get hit. Who can avoid hits easier? Falcon. Falcon gets 1 hit, he can run away for the rest of the match against Sheik and avoid hits (including needles), because his movement vectors are so good.

Using Jigglypuff as an example is ********. It's not just her horizontal movement speed in the air that allows her to hit her opponent, she has 5 jumps dude. More importantly, she has PRIORITY that can trade with or beat anything.
Standard aerial priority is that aerials can trade or outprioritize all ground moves and trade with each other provided both hit, so in that sense, aerials have equal priority. What sets some aerials apart is disjointed hitbox like Marth's, and fast horizontal and vertical movement speed to increase an aerial's effective range and allow it to be spaced better. Extended hitboxes are also a consideration, but they aren't as significant as the first 2 factors I mentioned in this paragraph. What makes or breaks...well, makes Jigglypuff's aerials is her horizontal movement speed.

Falcon's horizontal movement speed is useful for 2 things: Comboing, and chasing people with Nairs.
You forgot maneuvering, getting better positioning, and avoiding hits.

It doesn't do anything in regards to actually hitting the opponent bro. Everything he has can be CC'd or outprioritized with ease. You're better DD camping which loses to projectiles anyways.
Would you like to turn DD camping into DD camping with powershielding then?




Sheik has infinitely more potential than Falcon does. She's better on stage and offstage.
Based on 'points' above that I have invalidated?

It's 10 million times easier to hit people to start a combo than Falcon, because of her priority, the range and safety of her moves, and the fact that she can force people to approach using needles, and then punish the approach. Falcon's forced to approach with low priority aerials and grabs, which can only be utilized if the opponent messes up.
I thought we established that movement speed increases range and priority of aerials, because they are by default of equal priority, just different range and size of hitbox. Falcon's uair and nair hitboxes are rather large by default, don't you think? In fact uair has more range than any of Sheik's aerials, and that range is only increased once you factor in fastfalling and horizontal aerial speed.




[Nair is a good approach for Falcon. That's about it bro, and even then you can CC it and time moves to beat the Nair. For example: You can time Fox's Nair 3 different ways to beat Falcon's nair. Before the first hit of Nair comes out, in between the nairs, or just space it over the second hit. It's much harder to beat Sheik's tilts, as they're extremely high priority.
I am not arguing that Fox isn't better than Falcon, you can punish Sheik's Nair with Shine in multiple ways, but that counts for equally little in this argument as the point you were trying to make above.



Falcon's weight helps him SLIGHTLY in the fact that he gets combo'd less hard than Sheik. But, Sheik also has Nair and Fair to mash so that if you're a frame off, you're gonna get hit by it. Falcon can't do anything like that.
With falcon. Wiggle uair. Fast aerial. Check frames. CAN do 'anything like that'. (this paragraph served as a tutorial to Steffon on how to better get logic across even while lacking sentence structure, perhaps he can take advantage of this lesson in the future)

Also, if you're talking about getting hit and punishing, Falcon's tech roll is HORRIBLE, which usually means that at low percents he takes the most damage out of any character vs Sheik, considering her tech chase amazing.
Yeah, which is why you use his superior ability to not get hit, like Isai did. (I personally think Marth's tech chasing ***** him harder)




Just a few more random points.

*Sheik's edgeguarding is incredible, Falcon's is not. That alone makes all the difference in the world.
I agree, her edgeguarding is better, but Falcon's is sufficient. They have to land on the stage sometime, and when they do they get reverse kneed. She has needle spikes down smash and nair/bair. It should be noted though that Falcon can go further out to aerial people away than Sheik can, because again, faster horizontal speed. (Sheik can go lower, however) I'm curious, Jesse, will you be attempting to use edgeguarding alone in your next post as a cornerstone for saying Sheik is better, or will you be trying to invalidate the points I've made so far regarding other aspects of his character that I think are more important than edgeguarding.

*Sheik's priority is way better than Falcon's, allowing for easier defensive options and up close combat, which Falcon blows at.
Again, referring you back to movement speed creating priority.

*Falcon's best hope is to hope for his opponent to mess up and then combo them to death via tech chasing and bad DI. You can guess wrong on tech chasing. Sheik has those options plus better combat on the ground and edge guarding.
She also has worse options for not getting hit. You can't lose if you don't get hit. Falcon is fast enough where you don't have to guess if your reaction time is good enough.

It's a no brainer dude.
Not quite, Mew2king himself says that Fox, Marth, Falco, Sheik, and Falcon are all almost a tie. Clearly the difference is small enough to where the differing point of view and perspectives can make a difference, and change the placement of characters. It's as much of a 'no brainer' as saying Bach or Beethoven is better. They both wrote incredibly complex music, in different ways.

Those factors count little in comparison to things that actually matter when fighting. You ignored the important things and tried to zone on in characteristics that are ignored because, well again, they don't matter.
Horizontal movement speed isn't ignored, it's mentioned quite often in the Jigglypuff boards, check em out. Rob will likely back me up on this.

Still love you though.
Everyone does, even if they also hate me :p
 
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