About the "Forbidden 7"

[The Adder]

Due to their filesize similarity to Warioman and Giga Bowser, I have always had the suspicion that they may not be scrap character data. What I mean is what exactly do Warioman and GB do? They take a preexisting character and modify their attributes, leaving the chaarcter essentially the same. Because of this, I have always thought that they may be a version of "alt costumes" that change not only the the character's model, but also attributes:

The hitboxes for Zelda/Sheik to Toon Zelda/Sheik "costume"

The aura for a Lucario to M2 "costume"

Adding "T3H PHI3R" and shifting the sweet spot for Marth to Roy

Changing the elemental attributes and A attack hitboxes for Ice Climbers to Plusel & Minun

Fireball to Pill and Fire smash to electric for Mario to Doc.

I have no idea what would change for Diddy to Dixie

Now, if I'm correct, it would be interesting to discover if these were not simply inaccesible scraps, but actually accesible (though I doubt, at least the being accesible part, is true).

 

[Nightsama]

Not to say that you don't have a valid point, I actually hope that you're right. But, this point has been brought up quite a few times already and discussed ad infinitum.

 

[The Adder]

Really now, because all I seem to see is the suggestion that they are just alt costumes, that usually gets shot down by "Overalls Wario doesn't have one!"

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

OR Pulse and Minum or whatever take Pikachu's data, change the model and skin to make it small, change some stats and add a fallowing partner...or something


And NO, they will not end up as ALT Costumes

 

[Nuvia]

I'm interested in waiting and seeing, not speculating to hell and back.

And NO, they will not end up as ALT Costumes

He said with baseless certainty.

 

[Gedennnnn]

Interesting. I'll believe anything at this point I just don't want them to be scrapped characters.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm interested in waiting and seeing, not speculating to hell and back.



He said with baseless certainty.

...If your talking about me, I really don't care. I'm going to be right anyway

 

[The Adder]

I'm interested in waiting and seeing, not speculating to hell and back.

But speculating is all I have until March 9th. :-(

 

[Nuvia]

If thats "all you have," I suggest you find a better way to spend your time. There's a whole world out there after all.

...If your talking about me, I really don't care. I'm going to be right anyway

He asserted arrogantly.

 

[Nightsama]

Really now, because all I seem to see is the suggestion that they are just alt costumes, that usually gets shot down by "Overalls Wario doesn't have one!"

Well I've misunderstood your post then, you basically said 'a version of alternate costumes' so I'm not sure how this is any different from those other speculations.

 

[The Adder]

Because this isn't just a change in appearance. This is a change in attributes.

Basically, clones without their own space on the charcater select screen.

If you've noticed, unlike in Melee, all but one (maybe two) of the clones are so different from their originals to the point that they COULDN'T be skins. The attack animations are totally different between them.

 

[Cheezball]

...If your talking about me, I really don't care. I'm going to be right anyway

Don't jump to conclusions.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Don't jump to conclusions.

It is highly unlikely they are ending up as alts..

Pulse and Minum or whatever is a perfect example of that...

It doesn't make any sense and it would be stupid

 

[The Adder]

It is highly unlikely they are ending up as alts..

Pulse and Minum or whatever is a perfect example of that...

It doesn't make any sense and it would be stupid

Care to elaborate?

 

[Nuvia]

It is highly unlikely they are ending up as alts..

Pulse and Minum or whatever is a perfect example of that...

It doesn't make any sense and it would be stupid

That doesn't make you any more right about them being downloadable characters.

 

[mood4food77]

plusle and minun would be good alternate costumes for pichu in melee, not for pika in brawl

i don't see the mewtwo/lucario thing either

dixie from diddy would be just madness, the 2 don't even play the same in the game

marth and roy are just too different character to make one a costume of the other, it just wouldn't work

but doc from mario would be fine and the toon zelda/sheik would be pretty cool

to make the characters an alternate costume, they virtually have to be the same person (why mario with doc would work), but they would have to function the same exact way as the normal character would

 

[Nightsama]

It is highly unlikely they are ending up as alts..

Pulse and Minum or whatever is a perfect example of that...

This is my real problem with this idea, everybody would somewhat make sense as an 'alt' except for P&M - the only character they are close to is IC and well...they have no relation whatsoever, meanwhile all the others could easily be linked to other existing characters that they would already play similarly to.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This is my real problem with this idea, everybody would somewhat make sense as an 'alt' except for P&M - the only character they are close to is IC and well...they have no relation whatsoever, meanwhile all the others could easily be linked to other existing characters that they would already play similarly to.

Not with different hit boxes they wouldn't...

Wario's alt has the same hit boxes and everything...


Toon Zelda would be half as tall as Zelda, for one...


ONLY Doc fits perfect

 

[Nightsama]

Not with different hit boxes they wouldn't...

Wario's alt has the same hit boxes and everything...


Toon Zelda would be half as tall as Zelda, for one...


ONLY Doc fits perfect

Yeah, OP already went over hit boxes and attack effects (ice vs. thunder in IC-P&M case) tho. Anyhow I'm not defending the idea or anything, I'm doubtful on it at best.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

the thing with PL/MN and Ice Climbers is that PL and MN are the sime file, while IC are two seperate files.

 

[Azureclipse]

Popo and Nana are separate files.

Plusle and Minun are a single file.

There no way to physically make them anything like the Climbers...

edit: haha, hi5 ballad

 

[The Adder]

Not with different hit boxes they wouldn't...

Wario's alt has the same hit boxes and everything...


Toon Zelda would be half as tall as Zelda, for one...


ONLY Doc fits perfect

This proves you didn't read what I said. Or at least choose to selectively ignore it.

Due to their filesize similarity to Warioman and Giga Bowser, I have always had the suspicion that they may not be scrap character data. What I mean is what exactly do Warioman and GB do? They take a preexisting character and modify their attributes, leaving the chaarcter essentially the same. Because of this, I have always thought that they may be a version of "alt costumes" that change not only the the character's model, but also attributes:

The hitboxes for Zelda/Sheik to Toon Zelda/Sheik "costume"

The aura for a Lucario to M2 "costume"

Adding "T3H PHI3R" and shifting the sweet spot for Marth to Roy

Changing the elemental attributes and A attack hitboxes for Ice Climbers to Plusel & Minun

Fireball to Pill and Fire smash to electric for Mario to Doc.

I have no idea what would change for Diddy to Dixie

Now, if I'm correct, it would be interesting to discover if these were not simply inaccesible scraps, but actually accesible (though I doubt, at least the being accesible part, is true).

Read the bolded statements.

This is my real problem with this idea, everybody would somewhat make sense as an 'alt' except for P&M - the only character they are close to is IC and well...they have no relation whatsoever, meanwhile all the others could easily be linked to other existing characters that they would already play similarly to.

G-Dorf and C. Falcon weren't exactly related either, were they?

plusle and minun would be good alternate costumes for pichu in melee, not for pika in brawl

i don't see the mewtwo/lucario thing either

dixie from diddy would be just madness, the 2 don't even play the same in the game

marth and roy are just too different character to make one a costume of the other, it just wouldn't work

but doc from mario would be fine and the toon zelda/sheik would be pretty cool

to make the characters an alternate costume, they virtually have to be the same person (why mario with doc would work), but they would have to function the same exact way as the normal character would

You also don't seem to have read what I said. At least not closely.

the thing with PL/MN and Ice Climbers is that PL and MN are the sime file, while IC are two seperate files.

Was not aware of this, that does create a monkey wrench.

 

[Linkubus]

But then you gotta ask yourself...

"Why do I need all these characters, especially if they're the same?"

And then you sulk in your chair, depressed once again.

 

[joenopride]

I think this is a solid guess about the unused character data. It would be another way of Sakurai saying, now everyone's favorite character did not get cut! Of course, there is always the option that the data just wasn't used in the end.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

But then you gotta ask yourself...

"Why do I need all these characters, especially if they're the same?"

And then you sulk in your chair, depressed once again.

Because Mewtwo is 10x more awesome than Lucario...even if Lucario is cool, he could never reach that level

 

[Dust319]

Popo and Nana are separate files.

Plusle and Minun are a single file.

There no way to physically make them anything like the Climbers...

I always figured this was evidence that they were trying to do something different with Plusle/Minun than they did with the Climbers.

This is just a theory, but they may have been experimenting with utilizing a move like "Baton Pass" which would switch which one you control. This would be a terribly difficult concept though, which would explain why they were "scrapped".

In anycase, I hope Sakurai mentions something about this so we can stop speculating on all this stuff.

 

[munsif]

perhaps they could be half n half clones. plusal and minal could be half pikachu half ice climbers moves, dixie could be half diddy n half peach, roy half ike and half marth. and who knows mewtwo could be a bit of lucario a bit of jigglypuff and a bit of zero suit samus anythings possible :]

 

[Toomai]

People will eventually dig deeper into the cracked files and, using the full-fledged character files as a sort of Rosetta Stone, figure out exactly what content is contained in the "mystery folders".

In my opinion, the clincher may be animations. Do you remember SSBM's Move Swap hackers? They could easily get chars to do each other's moves (although B moves were suspect to strange effects, most standard attacks were pretty well done). But since the animations were the same, they looked terrible (i.e. DK as Pichu). Since (with the exception of Dr.M) the mentioned potential clones have different body proportions than their theorized bases, animations would need to be redone (not hitboxes, they clip into a character's fists and such automatically). If the mystery files do not contain animations, or the animations are incomplete, then I say they are scrapped chars.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This proves you didn't read what I said. Or at least choose to selectively ignore it.



Read the bolded statements.



G-Dorf and C. Falcon weren't exactly related either, were they?



You also don't seem to have read what I said. At least not closely.



Was not aware of this, that does create a monkey wrench.

That also wasn't a reply to you

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Due to their filesize similarity to Warioman and Giga Bowser, I have always had the suspicion that they may not be scrap character data. What I mean is what exactly do Warioman and GB do? They take a preexisting character and modify their attributes, leaving the chaarcter essentially the same. Because of this, I have always thought that they may be a version of "alt costumes" that change not only the the character's model, but also attributes:

The hitboxes for Zelda/Sheik to Toon Zelda/Sheik "costume"

The aura for a Lucario to M2 "costume"

Adding "T3H PHI3R" and shifting the sweet spot for Marth to Roy

Changing the elemental attributes and A attack hitboxes for Ice Climbers to Plusel & Minun

Fireball to Pill and Fire smash to electric for Mario to Doc.

I have no idea what would change for Diddy to Dixie

Now, if I'm correct, it would be interesting to discover if these were not simply inaccesible scraps, but actually accesible (though I doubt, at least the being accesible part, is true).

well I like your logic but here's what I find against the idea i the fact that Sakurai squarely mentioned that Diddy and dixie were originally designed as a pair. However he scrapped the idea because of technicalities. This tells me she was a scrapped character and while sakurai could make her DLC it seems more likely against the idea. Second Plusle and minun and mewtwo? There are already 4 pokes (6 counting poketrainer pokes). Why add 2 (3) more? Expecially when the mario franchise would only get 5. Same with the Loz series and toon zelda. These characters aren't signficantly important to nintendo (besides Mewtwo and Dixie).

 

[DeuceBlade]

well I like your logic but here's what I find against the idea i the fact that Sakurai squarely mentioned that Diddy and dixie were originally designed as a pair. However he scrapped the idea because of technicalities. This tells me she was a scrapped character and while sakurai could make her DLC it seems more likely against the idea. Second Plusle and minun and mewtwo? There are already 4 pokes (6 counting poketrainer pokes). Why add 2 (3) more? Expecially when the mario franchise would only get 5. Same with the Loz series and toon zelda. These characters aren't signficantly important to nintendo (besides Mewtwo and Dixie).

- When did Sakurai say Did&Dix were supposed to be a pair... if I remember correctly it was just a suggestion from his poll.

- Pokemon already have more playable characters than other franchises... PT is just an excuse

- wuhhh?