Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I agree with the Link ratio. Sheik absolutely destroys him.

Lucario beats SHeik rather soundly however.

Link i pretty accurate, I would agree.

Lucario though I feel like is because Kenni beats me a lot more than I beat him, I don't feel like I'm a player to base anything off of since, I'm not PR'd or a pro. I think he does beat Sheik or Sheik/Zelda even with my losing track record with Kennispam.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Link i pretty accurate, I would agree.

Lucario though I feel like is because Kenni beats me a lot more than I beat him, I don't feel like I'm a player to base anything off of since, I'm not PR'd or a pro. I think he does beat Sheik or Sheik/Zelda even with my losing track record with Kennispam.

We lose to Lucario with Zelda and without. It's a pain since he has all that range and stuff. Can't chase him for Usmash since he dairs everything. Makes me sad. Hence why I beat up Lucarios with Zelda.

 

[KenniSpam!]

real talk lucario is garbage

super super easy MU imo

ook combo dat ho

 

[iLight]

it may be repetitive but still very fun to play

 

[<π]

yall haven't played my link yet! get at me on any stage that isn't FD and my link will put in work. think MK has range and priority? Lol.

lucario has a kill throw :/

generally kill throws are bad for sheik IMO

 

[Judo777]

yall haven't played my link yet! get at me on any stage that isn't FD and my link will put in work. think MK has range and priority? Lol.

lucario has a kill throw :/

generally kill throws are bad for sheik IMO

ehhh idk if his throw is really a kill throw i think it can be DIed to pretty high percents. Could be wrong tho.

 

[<π]

nah it kills.

 

[KenniSpam!]

i dont recall ever being killed by any of lucarios throws, aside from being like 200% maybe loool

 

[<π]

lol okay~

 

[phi1ny3]

fthrow and sideB are kill throws, although between the two you'll see SideB kill a lot more (although it's really slow unless you prime it in the air coming down ala pseudo-command grab style)

When Lucario is about 130% or more sideB starts becoming about as powerful as Ness bthrow <_<

 

[KenniSpam!]

pure-pureparedo!

 

[-Mars-]

yea lucario fthrow is super powerful when hes above 100% lol wat game have u guys been playing?

 

[sheikamaru]

it may be repetitive but still very fun to play

what other games do you play mr. light? :D and been in any smash tourneys lately?

fthrow and sideB are kill throws, although between the two you'll see SideB kill a lot more (although it's really slow unless you prime it in the air coming down ala pseudo-command grab style)

When Lucario is about 130% or more sideB starts becoming about as powerful as Ness bthrow <_<

dude.... i died to his sideb through at like...110% at the least... it's pretty stupid.
it's so scaryyy...

 

[Judo777]

yea lucario fthrow is super powerful when hes above 100% lol wat game have u guys been playing?

I know side B is strong lol didn't know fthrow was. I don't let lucario get above 100% lol

 

[<π]

how though? we don't have any kills on him really till we above 100. our move set make it hard to gimp by nature at mid->high percents because our knockbacks can all be DIed pretty high.

lucairo's stall (in dair) and second jump combined with that make it diffucult to really jump out there for gimps...

 

[-Mars-]

Yea not letting Lucario get to 100 is pretty much out of the question if you're playing half decent players...

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, don't underestimate Lucario's Force Palm. I got quite a bit of surprise "HOLY **** THAT KILLS" kills because of it.

Oh, and if Lucario is at about 100%, UTilt and DTilt are kill moves. Just throwing that out there. UTilt's probably the one that's more troublesome.

 

[<π]

our inability to get good kill set ups on lucario makes him very very strong against us IMO.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I personally knock him away, usually with DSmash and then transform for my kills. I actually just discovered yesterday that if we have all our needles charged and transform, when we transform back we still have the needles. Kinda useful for throwing people off.

 

[<π]

more important than that transforming refreshes all of your moves. I'm afraid of zelda vs lucario I don't know the match up but in my head it doesn't play out very well.......

 

[Supreme Dirt]

You just have to play it safely. If you can, bait an Aurasphere and reflect it with Nayru's Love. Mostly it's get him to Zelda UTilt kill percent as Sheik, then find a single opening as Zelda for a kill.

Bewaring of FAir is really important, since at that percent NAir is a kill move, and FAir => NAir is a true combo.

 

[FrozenFire13]

Any good lucario is gonna predict the reflect with Zelda. They'll just power shield or dodge then force palm you or something. Not very viable, IMO.

fair to nair is a true combo? You can't DI?

 

[-Mars-]

Lucario completely walls Zelda. He beats her worse than he does Sheik.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Nope. At 0 it isn't, but after the first aura boost to FAir (I believe it's at 15% iirc) the hitstun is too much to airdodge, and NAir has a crazy huge hitbox.

 

[phi1ny3]

The reason why it doesn't work at 0 is b/c most characters that are big/fall fast don't get enough knockback to lift them, making them able to shield on the ground. His fair stuff works alright on lighter characters at 0 though.

fair works for similar reasons ftilt does, the minimal damage it does gives it a really low amount of hitlag. couple that with really long lasting aerials (he's really, really good at catching air dodges for this reason, FAIR LASTS FOR 14 FRAMES) it negates a lot of wiggle room. It's pretty much combo material.

Lucario excels pretty well against characters that don't kill well, mainly because of aura directly benefiting, but also b/c his moves get safer the stronger he becomes (more damage = less disadvantage on block).

0-25% = lowest, then it scales from there until 182% I believe. Then there's stock buffs/debuffs.

Zelda isn't too great against Lucario either, unless you're playing a bad lucario that likes to space poorly/dair spam lol.

 

[Heartstring]

luckily, i have a solution to lucario!
its called r.o.b xD
but in all srsness, our local lucario isnt much cop, doesnt use his tilts and only uses side-b for the chaingrab at low percents on heavies, otherwise its pretty much fsmashfsmashfsmash auraball auraball auraball short hop fair>dair, etc.

 

[Judo777]

Haha i said that a little liberally however I am pretty good at not letting them get up there too much.

For real tho guys a method to the MU for me (and i do play a decent number of lucarios) decay ur ftilt right, get him to 90%, and then i literally WILL NOT hit him again until i land and ftilt and usmash him. Even lucarios that know its coming (aka everyone i play regularly) still don't have the easiest time avoiding it. It's kinda fun once they realize they are an ftilt away from dying and are trying to avoid it heavily. Sometimes tho i do have to put him over but if i do i make sure to try and juggle him really hard. Sometimes tho what are you gonna do?

I have been known on several occasions to waste a full needles storm straight into the ground so that I can throw a single needle at lucario to get him to the right percent. If its any concelation lucario isn't near as large a threat below 100%.

I always joke. Sheik is S tier when her opponent is below 100%. Lucario is S tier when he is above 100%. So the trick to the MU is trying ur hardest minimize that time because when lucario is below 100% he is C tier. When ur opponent is above 100% sheik is like E tier. Try to keep him below 100% and swing the MU about 6 tiers in ur favor lol.

 

[Tewx2]

I would like tOo add on to Judo's strat, by saying after you get the stock lead, leave him at 0. There's very little he can do to kill us at 0, and because we'll be at like 60-100% or so (most likely) we wont really be getting combo'd by him either. Just dont run into a charged smash lol.

 

[-Mars-]

Sheik doesnt have enough horizontal mobility or broken offstage options to avoid confrontations unless your on Norfair or something.

 

[<π]

she has tons of vertical mobility through. and edges add significantly to her horizontal. invincibility from vanish helps a lot too.

you also have option like needle to end a lot of confrontations before they began; and aerials like bair and uair to beat out a lot of characters off stage options.

 

[phi1ny3]

Haha i said that a little liberally however I am pretty good at not letting them get up there too much.

For real tho guys a method to the MU for me (and i do play a decent number of lucarios) decay ur ftilt right, get him to 90%, and then i literally WILL NOT hit him again until i land and ftilt and usmash him. Even lucarios that know its coming (aka everyone i play regularly) still don't have the easiest time avoiding it. It's kinda fun once they realize they are an ftilt away from dying and are trying to avoid it heavily. Sometimes tho i do have to put him over but if i do i make sure to try and juggle him really hard. Sometimes tho what are you gonna do?

I have been known on several occasions to waste a full needles storm straight into the ground so that I can throw a single needle at lucario to get him to the right percent. If its any concelation lucario isn't near as large a threat below 100%.

I always joke. Sheik is S tier when her opponent is below 100%. Lucario is S tier when he is above 100%. So the trick to the MU is trying ur hardest minimize that time because when lucario is below 100% he is C tier. When ur opponent is above 100% sheik is like E tier. Try to keep him below 100% and swing the MU about 6 tiers in ur favor lol.

The trick is... getting all those ftilts in when you've got his dumb range to deal with.

Lucario utilt imo has surprisingly good utility in this MU. utilt is really good for catching crossups b/c of that arc coming from behind him.

bair's great if you predict his dair.

I still do say though that Sheik probably has a better chance at this MU than Zelda.

 

[-Mars-]

she has tons of vertical mobility through. and edges add significantly to her horizontal. invincibility from vanish helps a lot too.

you also have option like needle to end a lot of confrontations before they began; and aerials like bair and uair to beat out a lot of characters off stage options.

Her vertical mobility would help a lot more if she had something like Fox's shine.....but as she's built jumping around in the air a lot and using your double jump isn't such a great idea since you're forced to land sometime....and since she has bad horizontal mobility it's not hard to predict her landing spot.

The edge is not a place you want to be against Marth, MK, Snake, Lucario etc. Especially if you're trying to avoid being hit lol.

What i'm saying is Sheik isn't Wario or anything...she's not a character that can run away and not get hit for long periods of time....sorry guys.

 

[<π]

I thought you meant recovery wize.

sheik can't avoid confrontation but 90% of the time she can decide how that confrontation starts.

 

[Heartstring]

also sheik lacks any easy wavebounce b-move to perform to trick the person into chasing the wrong way like rob does (gyro and up-b mindgames are too good) but if you can learn to wavebounce needles you will be able to get by quite well i would imagine, we cant wavebounce up or down-b because of the physics of them and the chain is just too slow

 

[<π]

you can use needles to bounce, cancel it and still have all your options available relatively quickly.

I swear chain stops all momentum anyway as well so... yeah

 

[KenniSpam!]

tourney tomorrow, probably goin mostly sheik

as always, ill post results unless i fail lawl

 

[-Mars-]

I thought you meant recovery wize.

sheik can't avoid confrontation but 90% of the time she can decide how that confrontation starts.

Oh ok. Yea I agree with that.

 

[Judo777]

you can use needles to bounce, cancel it and still have all your options available relatively quickly.

I swear chain stops all momentum anyway as well so... yeah

but it doesn't do almost anything because our airspeed is terrible. And i wish chain stopped momentum too many times i have died chaining on accident while DI ing

 

[Zankoku]

Hey, if any of you still actively plays Sheik in tournament, let me know.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Hey, if any of you still actively plays Sheik in tournament, let me know.

Is this for the top 5 of each character thingy? I still play in tourney lol!

I gave my opinion but I think you'd ve much better suited to do so lol.