Advanced Techniques in Brawl

[Smooth Criminal]

Was this the CF fanboy thread? At least I think that's what it turned into at one point...

P.S.: Yay, Adi--you're back--we've been kind of sparse on intelligent posters.

I R smart, parson. LOLZ.

Seriously, RDK---post count isn't everything around here. I've seen people with just under one hundred posts and they're a hundred times more eloquent (and correct about some things, even) than people with, say, 315. While I share your views on scrubs and wavedashing, I'm less inclined to flame them to hell for their inane stance on the game.

So...don't be so harsh?

I dunno.

Smooth Criminal

Edit:

For the sake of relevancy:

Yes. I personally think that wavedashing is going to be in Brawl. There's next to no reason why it shouldn't be in there, considering that Sakurai and Company are taking the base engine from Melee as their framework. However, if by some twist of chance that it isn't in, then oh well. I'll just adapt to this current incarnation of the game and move on. Or just play the hell outta Melee a little more.

 

[RDK]

I R smart, parson. LOLZ.

Seriously, RDK---post count isn't everything around here. I've seen people with just under one hundred posts and they're a hundred times more eloquent (and correct about some things, even) than people with, say, 315. While I share your views on scrubs and wavedashing, I'm less inclined to flame them to hell for their inane stance on the game.

So...don't be so harsh?

I dunno.

Smooth Criminal

I don't base evaluations purely on post count--I've read many a post by low-counters that have actually had some relevance and thought to them [instert good example here].

But maybe you're right--maybe I am a little too harsh sometimes.

a hundred times more eloquent (and correct about some things, even) than people with, say, 315

Oooh, that's cold.

<--315 exactly

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'm the epitome of cruel, right?

Lol.

Sorry, man. I had to call you out. It was just there and quotable. 315 seemed like an eye-catching number, y'know?

Smooth Criminal

P.S. Seriously. No hard feelings, RDK.

 

[RDK]

Sorry, man. I had to call you out. It was just there and quotable. 315 seemed like an eye-catching number, y'know?

A.K.A:

Lol, no offense taken.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

soo... yeah where is Dylan to start the wave dash war i love it

 

[Alphalink]

in reality, who cares if people that want wavedashing wont buy it??

its not going to affect us from enjoying the new Smash iteration.

I dont understand how boycotting brawl would solve the problem, its not like wavedashing was an implemented feature on Melee, anyways


maybe you guys ill get lucky and wavedashing will be possible in Brawl.

 

[Adi]

After some time Dylan agreed that boycott was a bit harsh and although he would buy it he would not play it competitively. I'm not going to make judgement of the game based on solely wavedashing but if it seems that there is a lack of depth/advanced techniques to be found in Brawl, I will most likely follow Dylan's example.

 

[Alphalink]

After some time Dylan agreed that boycott was a bit harsh and although he would buy it he would not play it competitively. I'm not going to make judgement of the game based on solely wavedashing but if it seems that there is a lack of depth/advanced techniques to be found in Brawl, I will most likely follow Dylan's example.

if anything, Brawl will have more advanced, intentional techniques than Melee. heck, maybe wavedashing will become an official move!

 

[Takalth]

in reality, who cares if people that want wavedashing wont buy it??

that discussion was dead about 15 pages ago due to unanimous agreement (including from those who originally considered not buying it). Every 20 posts or so since then, somebody has put up this same thing. I don't expect anyone to read the entire thread, but at least skim the last 2 pages to see if your comment is relevant to the current discussion.

 

[Truegamer#1]

I think that wavedashing in brawl is gonna be cut out, but from the second trailer, Marios moves are still the same. But Wavedashing is only possible when you air dodge, if thats cut...then brawl is doomed to Suck ***...

 

[Alphalink]

I think that wavedashing in brawl is gonna be cut out, but from the second trailer, Marios moves are still the same. But Wavedashing is only possible when you air dodge, if thats cut...then brawl is doomed to Suck ***...

I doubt airdodging would be cut out

that would be downgrading the game. its illogical

 

[Truegamer#1]

I doubt airdodging would be cut out

that would be downgrading the game. its illogical

so brawl gonna have old moves and new ones, I really hope so...

 

[Alphalink]

so brawl gonna have old moves and new ones, I really hope so...

exactly

they'll just add more techs to the array of techs we already use in melee

 

[The Bino]

I think that wavedashing in brawl is gonna be cut out, but from the second trailer, Marios moves are still the same. But Wavedashing is only possible when you air dodge, if thats cut...then brawl is doomed to Suck ***...

Go to smashbros.com and take a look at some pictures there, you can clearly see that in a couple of pics there that some chars are AIR DODGING, so it would clearly seem that AIR DODGING isn't nor has been cut

 

[WhiteZER0]

Okay, can someone clarify? WHAT THE HECK IS WAVEDASHING?! (Yes, I am a noob. Anyone who flames me is a bit to obssessed with video games).

 

[teh_nuke]

From the point of view of a Smash "newbie":

I think that wavedashing should NOT be included in Brawl. The techniques that are required to be good should be INTENTIONALLY put in the game by the developers. Wavedashing is exploiting the game's mechanics to better yourself at the game. The only difference between WD and say a gold dupe in an online RPG, is that wavedashing is not frowned upon and gold duping is.

I think since Brawl is an upgrade from Melee, it should FIX the exploits possible in the previous game. I am 100% sure that HAL knows how important these techniques are to competitive players, so they will probably implement INTENTIONAL mechanics, like maybe a "slide" button.

I do not believe that I should have to learn how to exploit a game to be able to beat people that are better than me. I think people should play the game the way it was meant to be played.

On a side note: I CAN wave dash, L-cancel, and SHFFL but I do not play competitively and my friends do not know how to do these techniques so I can not find their uses. I am one of the "n00bs" who likes to play FFA with items on , and I believe that is the vision the developers had with the original Smash Bros. AND Melee, so that is the way I play.

 

[Sandy]

Okay, can someone clarify? WHAT THE HECK IS WAVEDASHING?!

Wavedashing is a glitch that Dylan_Tnga and others are obsessed with:
http://smashwiki.com/wiki/Wavedash

 

[psicicle]

AGAIN!!!

From the point of view of a Smash "newbie":

I think that wavedashing should NOT be included in Brawl. The techniques that are required to be good should be INTENTIONALLY put in the game by the developers. Wavedashing is exploiting the game's mechanics to better yourself at the game. The only difference between WD and say a gold dupe in an online RPG, is that wavedashing is not frowned upon and gold duping is.

I think since Brawl is an upgrade from Melee, it should FIX the exploits possible in the previous game. I am 100% sure that HAL knows how important these techniques are to competitive players, so they will probably implement INTENTIONAL mechanics, like maybe a "slide" button.

I do not believe that I should have to learn how to exploit a game to be able to beat people that are better than me. I think people should play the game the way it was meant to be played.

On a side note: I CAN wave dash, L-cancel, and SHFFL but I do not play competitively and my friends do not know how to do these techniques so I can not find their uses. I am one of the "n00bs" who likes to play FFA with items on , and I believe that is the vision the developers had with the original Smash Bros. AND Melee, so that is the way I play.

And the developer's intentions matter... how? If a game is made better through some tech that the devs did not intend (and you do not know that it isn't intended), then why not keep it or use it?

"Wavedashing is exploiting the game's mechanics to better yourself at the game."
So is using the A button.

Here's an earlier post of mine:

"Advanced techs add depth to the game; without them, smash would be extremely shallow. I know- I've played for 3 years without the techs and it gets boring. Adv. techs add options, which make your opponent more unpredictable, which in my opinion is more fun.

Playing the game as the developers intended is wrong. Play it however you want to play it- the dev's intentions are not the best. Unless your preferences happen to be the same as what you believe the developers intended (because you don't actually know what they indended- all the techs used in SHFFL are intended).

To illustrate my point, do you play with the B button? Wait, that would give you an advantage over somebody who decided not to use it. Is this any different to using a wavedash? If your opponent does not use the B button, that is their fault. If your opponent does not wavedash, that's their fault too.

check this out: http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/

By the way, how is it cheating when your opponent can do the same? There is no advantage conferred to either player. Also, I'd like to know how simplifying the game makes it more "cunning and strategic"."

from: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=106305&page=12

 

[WhiteZER0]

XD okay, I got it. And um... say this again, people are not gonna buy this/play this/boycott it, because it doesn't have some FREAKING GLITCH?! Now that there is messed up. If someone hadn't found that out in the first place, you wouldn't have even KNOWN about it. Your life would have gone on COMPLETELY fine if you hadn't known about it to begin with. I don't care about some glitch, no matter how handy it can be. Games our supposed to be FUN, not so bloody serious. (no, i'm not flaming). I'm not saying you shouldn't use it or anything, or that it's wrong, but to actually boycott a game over a glitch that it doens't have? That's just kind of... childish (no, I'm not being judgemental, I'm stating the truth :/, whether you believe it or not )

I'm guessing Nintendo/HAL Lab. has heard about wavedashing at one point or another, and they're probably gonna plan on fixing it, unless they add something similar to the game. Unless they add something like that though, I think they're gonna try to find a way to remove it.

 

[Linari Sabre]

Thank you White Zero I give you some props man

 

[psicicle]

What is messed up, childish etc. is subjective, therefore it is not truth. I think that if somebody doesn't play brawl because of no wavedash, then I don't think they'd have fun playing brawl anyway. After all, you did say that games are supposed to be fun.

"I'm guessing Nintendo/HAL Lab. has heard about wavedashing at one point or another, and they're probably gonna plan on fixing it, unless they add something similar to the game. Unless they add something like that though, I think they're gonna try to find a way to remove it."

Wait... so if they decide not to keep it, it will be removed?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Edit: Wow. Another Sirlin convert. I apologize for my rant, Nuke. Please disregard this post.

And I think the whole boycotting thing is a bit extreme, too. Like Adi mentioned, if I feel that if Brawl is inferior to Melee for some ungodly reason then I'll just stick to Melee. No harm, no foul.

Smooth Criminal

 

[teh_nuke]

AGAIN!!!



And the developer's intentions matter... how? If a game is made better through some tech that the devs did not intend (and you do not know that it isn't intended), then why not keep it or use it?

"Wavedashing is exploiting the game's mechanics to better yourself at the game."
So is using the A button.

Here's an earlier post of mine:

"Advanced techs add depth to the game; without them, smash would be extremely shallow. I know- I've played for 3 years without the techs and it gets boring. Adv. techs add options, which make your opponent more unpredictable, which in my opinion is more fun.

Playing the game as the developers intended is wrong. Play it however you want to play it- the dev's intentions are not the best. Unless your preferences happen to be the same as what you believe the developers intended (because you don't actually know what they indended- all the techs used in SHFFL are intended).

To illustrate my point, do you play with the B button? Wait, that would give you an advantage over somebody who decided not to use it. Is this any different to using a wavedash? If your opponent does not use the B button, that is their fault. If your opponent does not wavedash, that's their fault too.

check this out: http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/

By the way, how is it cheating when your opponent can do the same? There is no advantage conferred to either player. Also, I'd like to know how simplifying the game makes it more "cunning and strategic"."

from: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=106305&page=12

You've obviously thought this through more than me . That article actually enlightened me in a way and, no joke, 5 minutes later I do not disagree with using wavedashing or other advanced techniques anymore .

What I still disagree with, is someone boycotting a game or liking it less because a previous strategy is not available anymore. Said someone can still win at the game because their opponent obviously is at the same disadvantage. Even greater yet, people can find new strategies to overcome their opponent. This would be more entertaining as new strategies are more likely to be developed on a new game (hence the reason to buy the new game and 'move up') whereas in the older version, the game will become more and more predictable and boring.

So I thank you, psicicle, for enlightening me with that "Playing to Win" article, but it only re-enforces my point that wavedashing should not be included in Brawl so that new strategies can be developed.

 

[psicicle]

No problem, people who disagree with wavedashing or whatever are very common so I see the same arguments a lot.

Also, who exactly is boycotting the game now? I think Dylan isn't anymore (just not playing it competitively) and... I don't think anybody else is.

 

[teh_nuke]

Um.

So why did you bother to learn these techniques in the first place, pal? If it is such a horrendous slight against your gaming paradigm, then why?

Hell, give us all a good reason why. I'm waiting to hear it.

Smooth Criminal

I dont know what you're getting at with the bolded statement, but the reason I learned them is out of free time and boredom. It is not a horrendous slight against your gaming paradigm in any way, I just dont use them as I play in FFAs with items on, and the strategies are more developed for 1 vs 1 matches on static stages where no player can be given an advantage at random. In the matches I play, it's anybody's game (part of why Smash Bros. has such a large fanbase compared to other fighting games).

 

[teh_nuke]

No problem, people who disagree with wavedashing or whatever are very common so I see the same arguments a lot.

Also, who exactly is boycotting the game now? I think Dylan isn't anymore (just not playing it competitively) and... I don't think anybody else is.

I said that it is stupid when someone would go as far as to boycott a game, or to like it less because of removing a strategy like WD. Liking it less doesnt equal boycotting

It is none of my business what people like or dislike anyhow. Disliking a game because a glitchy feature from a previous game was removed is just something I disagree with.

EDIT: sorry for double posting there. i thought for sure someone would have posted before I clicked submit, but I would also like to add that in about 3 minutes, my post count has gone from 0-5 because of this 'heated discussion'

 

[hXd]

I'm interested to see how wavedashing is done with the WiiMote (and if you can, at all)

 

[psicicle]

Oh okay. Well in my opinion, it's all subjective anyway. I would not like brawl as much is it turned out to be exactly the same as melee, except without WDing. However, it is definitely not going to be the same because of the updates and stuff.

I would agree that not liking Brawl because WDing is out would be kind of close-minded, but that is only if other techniques or refinements that added depth to the game were added to compensate for the depth taken out by the removal of WDing.

For me however much I like it depends on how much depth turns out to be in Brawl.

 

[KirbySSB]

if anybody in this thread knew anything about smash bros they would realize that dash dancing is way more important than wavedashing will ever be so it doesn't really matter and you're all ******** for arguing for 10 pages

 

[Truegamer#1]

Go to smashbros.com and take a look at some pictures there, you can clearly see that in a couple of pics there that some chars are AIR DODGING, so it would clearly seem that AIR DODGING isn't nor has been cut

I go there for updates on brawl everyday, if you have seen a air dodge on a pic, please display it here or tell me where to find it,

And WhiteZero, look up wavedashing on Youtube, they give you tons of videos on what it is, and how to do it

 

[teh_nuke]

Oh okay. Well in my opinion, it's all subjective anyway. I would not like brawl as much is it turned out to be exactly the same as melee, except without WDing. However, it is definitely not going to be the same because of the updates and stuff.

I would agree that not liking Brawl because WDing is out would be kind of close-minded, but that is only if other techniques or refinements that added depth to the game were added to compensate for the depth taken out by the removal of WDing.

For me however much I like it depends on how much depth turns out to be in Brawl.

the depth is only confined to how many options there are. I believe there will be the same amount of moves(same amount of buttons), if not MORE (final smash) so the depth in the variety of attacks will be on par if not greater than the amount of depth in melee. Also, from what I've seen, Brawl will have MORE mobility options than Melee. There is crawling, and more characters have flight-like options. This makes Brawl more deep with just that knowledge, which can be gathered from a few trailers and screens that were released. Imagine how much depth will be discovered once the game is released!

 

[WhiteZER0]

Exactly. Brawl will have a lot more depth than Melee this time around, because for one, of all the new mobility options. That's just ONE thing!

And thanks for lettin me know, TG#1. I've read a few things on here, and after those vids, I've got the basic idea of what it is Like I said, it's probably very helpful. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I don't really see how a glitch that wasn't supposed to happen could make the game any worse :/ I just don't understand that logic XD Just my opinion If it's able to be used in Brawl, by all means, whoever wants to use it may use it

 

[Caael]

Personally, I hope Brawl doesn't have wavedashing in. Just so I can see some of your faces.

Gutted

 

[Truegamer#1]

Exactly. Brawl will have a lot more depth than Melee this time around, because for one, of all the new mobility options. That's just ONE thing!

And thanks for lettin me know, TG#1. I've read a few things on here, and after those vids, I've got the basic idea of what it is Like I said, it's probably very helpful. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I don't really see how a glitch that wasn't supposed to happen could make the game any worse :/ I just don't understand that logic XD Just my opinion If it's able to be used in Brawl, by all means, whoever wants to use it may use it

i was once a noob, so i gotta return the favor...
no problem

 

[krimzonwaffle]

I would read your post if you presented it in a manner that was readable. As it stands I'm not going to bother because you gave me a wall of text full of your opinions and bad grammar. I can't read it, it hurts my eyes.

Regardless of what you think, neither I nor the rest of my crew including Dylan wish to impose our opinions on you, so please refrain from doing so to me with such slanderous terms as ''childish'' really, who are you to be so judgemental?

We still play super smash 64, Dylan is quite good online and is trying out for the canadian rankings, and we practice melee quite often each week.

In all honnesty we have a great desire to improve even moreso at melee and it could occupy us for a long time. So even if Brawl lacks wavedashing and we do not make the switch, we still have plenty to keep us amused.

So yes, for our own reasons which Dylan has argued valiantly, (and won everytime, I might add) on this forum, our crew will not play Brawl if it doesn't have wavedashing

Sorry if this opinion aggrivates you, but it's how I feel, its how my 12 year old sister feels, Its how my friend George feels, its how Dylan feels. its also how many, many of our friends who play melee feel.

We're definatly not alone, so even if everyone makes the switch, which wont happen because no matter how much people play Brawl, melee will live forever we will ALWAYS have a crew to play SSBM with.

I am not telling you how to play the game, what game to buy, or what to do. I am meerly stating an opinion which Dylan has backed up with logical points on more than one occasion and would be doing right now were he not banned. But heck I figure I can replace him for a little while.

Though Dylan is way more addicted to forums than I am (look at my post count vs his )

So don't worry you don't have a 2nd Dylan_Tnga on your hands

you sound like someone i would punch in the face, have some respect

 

[Zabutur]

Personally, I hope Brawl doesn't have wavedashing in. Just so I can see some of your faces.

Gutted

dont' let Dylan hear you say that. he'll give you the whole emancipation proclamtion and a rant longer than "War and "Peace" about why wavedashing is so important solely beczause he bases his whole game off it.

 

[psicicle]

you sound like someone i would punch in the face, have some respect

Oh man this guy's tough. I wouldn't mess with him or he might send me an e-punch over the internet. I guess I'd be in big trouble if I pointed out the hippocriticism.

Personally, I hope Brawl doesn't have wavedashing in. Just so I can see some of your faces.

Gutted

It's the internet...

Personally, I hope Brawl has wavedashing because I believe that the gameplay would be better with it in than with it out.

 

[monty06]

i think if brawl had no wavedashing it would ruin the game and it wouldnt be the same

 

[psicicle]

Well, you do have melee if you do want the same game.

 

[_Phloat_]

Hmm...

Do you notice that everyone seems upset with the idea that they might not be good at Brawl the first time they play?

It just really seems to me that noone is interested in practicing this game when it comes out. People are talking like they're going to be missing something if they're not as good at Brawl as they are in Melee right away. What's with that?

Melee has perhaps become so closely tied to one's pride that they can't bare the shame being a newbie again.

Anyway, that's just what I'm seeing. I personally don't care about it either way... the appeal of Smash Bros. to me has all ways been the characters, and Snake has all ready sold me, heheh. Wherever the competitive scene goes, I'll simply follow.

WWWAAAAYYYY earlier in the toic, but I had a comment to add

Ken is quitting the game because of this, he wants to be the very best when he starts out.. A lot of pros are quitting for this very reason, and it irks me very very hard (umm, hard, yes)

Like, you get paid to play a video game and you are this ungrateful?
Im sure school had something to do with it to though,...