Air/Ground/Recovery

[superlucario]

I say we try and find out who has the best Air game, who has the best Ground game and which char has the best recovery


P. S. If you say MK has the best everything you will be shot jk

 

[Kitamerby]

...

MK DOES have the best air game, ground game, and recovery. He has the best gimping game, too.

Olimar can almost give him a run for his money for the ground game, but that's about it.

 

[superlucario]

If he had the best air ground and recovery he would ne unbeatable

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Not necessarily. He does, in fact, have the best air (arguably, ZSS might come close), ground (arguably, I suppose, oli comes close), and recovery game (not even ****ing close to contested). Along with the best options in almost any given situation (especially the ledge), but not all of these are by a massive margin (especially ground). He's the very best by a mile and a half, but certainly not unbeatable.

 

[Conviction]

MK is not unbeatable with limits we have on him atm. But in a match with no limits on MK he is indeed unbeatable. <- but this is not the point of the thread.

MK is the best of these 3 things. (Oli might be better at ground)

 

[BSP]

Ground game is debatable, but MK definitely has the other two down. No clashing, insanely fast, and he always makes it back unless you outright kill him or the MK somehow gets gimped.

Oli's got a good ground game. I would think snake's ground game is pretty good too.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Recovery is easily MK.
Air... I dunno.
Ground is probably Snake or Olimar, maybe Diddy

Spoiler

in the current metagame

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Air is easily MK. What are you smokin', dawg?

 

[vVv Rapture]

Ganondorf's ground game is better than MK's. Look at him, he's like 10 times bigger than MK. That must make him good.

*actually plays SSBB*

So, evidently, I was wrong.

 

[Kole]

MK.
MK.
MK.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Oi.

MK's air game is so good, it doesn't matter that his air speed is one of the worse in the game. ZSS, Squirtle, and Wario have respectable air games, but they don't match his. Recovery is a no brainer, nobody else even comes close.

Ground game I'd say MK edges out Snake and Olimar.

 

[demonictoonlink]

MK has the best air game and recovery.

But you're ******** if you think he has the best ground game :/

 

[John12346]

Well, MK's Ftilt has Marth tipper Fsmash range, Dtilt on shield is a frame trap, and his grab game is freaking insane...

Also shield to Dsmash, SH Nair, or Shuttle Loop, so yeah...

 

[Limeee]

MK and olimar tie for ground game

they are both amazing on the ground

 

[Kole]

I think Snake is up there too

 

[demonictoonlink]

...
Snake anyone?
DDD?

Diddy in a different kinda way

 

[bigbucks]

Mk does not have the best ground game. His ground game is average.

Olimar, Snake, Diddy and Failco all have a better ground game

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Average? Falco being better at ground? O.o

MK has Dtilt, which is one of the most disjointed moves in the game (certainly the most disjointed to come out on frame 3). Ftilt, also one of the most disjointed moves in the game. Shuttle Loop, a massively disjointed and stupidly fast dragon punch. Dsmash, a moderately disjointed frame 6 kill move. Fsmash, a killer with almost no endlag. His grab range is great, his dashgrab has an awesome slide, and his throws are also really good. Usmash, while not incredible, is still a stupidly fast launcher that gets the opponent in the air.

Falco has Jab, dash attack, great throws... and?

 

[Tommy_G]

Average? Falco being better at ground? O.o

MK has Dtilt, which is one of the most disjointed moves in the game (certainly the most disjointed to come out on frame 3). Ftilt, also one of the most disjointed moves in the game.Blockable and punishable out of a block if they don't space it perfectly. Shuttle Loop, a massively disjointed and stupidly fast dragon punch. Dsmash, a moderately disjointed frame 6 kill move. Fsmash, a killer with almost no endlag. Easily blocked and is usually punished before it comes out. It can only be used out of a mind game or to start a spacing pattern.His grab range is greatNo it's not., his dashgrab has an awesome slideThe slide has its advantages for sure but it also has disadvantages, and his throws are also really good.They're ok compared to other top tiers. Usmash, while not incredible, is still a stupidly fast launcher that gets the opponent in the air.SDI out and punish.

Falco has Jab, dash attack, great throws... and?

Up smash(DACUS), Down smash, Ftilt, and one of the best spot dodges in the game says hi.

I think Snake has the best overall ground game, but it does change from matchup to matchup.
Snake ground game>MK ground game
DDD ground game> Snake ground game
MK ground game>DDD ground game

 

[phi1ny3]

I think having a dthrow alone that gives you a 40-50% handicap (including the followups on characters who don't get dthrow CG'd as much) is enough to say "good ground game".

an ftilt that's safe on block + can be mixed in

frame 2 interrupter (only thing that starts faster is squirtle and ZSS jab which aren't nearly as mixable)

IAP + silent laser shenanigans (specials, but still should be included imo)

only 2 frames of invulnerability w/ spotdodge.

and Dash attack/Dacus that's pretty nice for certain usages.

I'm going to say he's not the best entirely, but his ground game is DEFINITELY overlooked. Anything that has the potential to play super, super safe (like MK) should really be considered strong.

I'm going to say that Snake and Olimar are the best ground games. Then I'd say MK, DDD, Falco, and Diddy.

In terms of aerial game, anything that isn't Meta better be joking honestly. ZSS is barely arguable.

I feel this also applies to recovery. MK is alone at the top.

 

[Blacknight99923]

honestly marth probably has a better air game than metaknight if you include air as in over the stage and NOT offstage. How many characters can honestly compete with marths air game on stage? I am looking at a fairly short list of ZSS and MK MAYBE G&W. MK doesn't have the aerial mobility that marth does and can't control the space quite as well while ZSS doesn't have the same level of disjointedness.



also including gimping is a factor as it could arguably belong in recovering category. If off stage air game is included the metaknight is superior without contest.


Ground game also is hard to judge because there are several aspects

Snake diddy definitely have stage control
falco and MK have damage racking/ chain grabs or grab follow ups
and ice climbers have stock punishes


asking who has the best recovery is stupid

 

[AvaricePanda]

It's weird to say air and ground game as seperate things because they're often mixed together.

For example, if you were to take Marth's ground game as the attacks he can only do on the ground, it wouldn't be that great. However, he can use SH F-airs, N-airs, whatever, or empty SHs to grab—in general mix up short hops with grounded options to space and zone more effectively. Would you consider every time he jumps to be his airgame despite how fast he switches from ground to air? If it doesn't count as his ground game, then his ground game's pretty mediocre. If it does, it's suddenly very good. Same with MK.

edit: What Blacknight said.

...Wario for best run-away game though lol.

 

[Javon89]

Practically the Jack of all Trades.

 

[Blacknight99923]

**** I am FeSoren Read my thing peoples


but what avarice panda said though.

 

[PieDisliker]

MK for best air game and recovery.
Diddy for best ground game? Maybe Olimar.

 

[volume]

meh air game goes to maybe mk marth or zss < my opinion

 

[BSP]

...Wario for best run-away game though lol.

If you included planking and scrooging in "run away" game, it'd be MK again.

 

[Kaffei]

Air Game: Marth or MK.
Ground Game: Olimar or Snake. Maybe MK.
Recovery: MK no contest.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

you should all overall character survivability. Like when you take into account DI and brakes.

 

[6Mizu]

MK
MK/Snake
MK

 

[Kaffei]

you should all overall character survivability. Like when you take into account DI and brakes.

Mk & Snake.

 

[#HBC | J]

MK/ZSS - air
Lolimonster/Snake/Diddy - ground
MK *no competition whatsoever* - recovery

 

[Tommy_G]

IC ground game is good.

No wonder why you guys all want MK banned. You're overrating him in a lot of instances.

 

[Kaffei]

IC ground game is good.

No wonder why you guys all want MK banned. You're overrating him in a lot of instances.

I think IC should spam more Blizzard wall vs MK

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

 

[Blacknight99923]

I think a lot of you guys are meat riding MK more then he really deserves. There is a reason why he has 30% of points and not 100%

 

[phi1ny3]

I'm pretty sure if you can make air dodge obsolete, and use dair pressure to give either safe chipping or an opening for tornado, as well as gimp/edgeguard, not to mention is one of the few characters that can punish characters recovering high, that's a pretty crazy good air game.

I do agree that Marth is contendable, but nonetheless I'd still consider it like
1:MK
2: ZSS/Marth

then like Peach/Wario either in 2 or lower.

 

[Kitamerby]

I think a lot of you guys are meat riding MK more then he really deserves. There is a reason why he has 30% of points and not 100%

You do realize that MK having 30% of points means basically that for every 3 placements in top 8 of ANY OTHER CHARACTER, MK has 1? <<

That's not meatriding, that's pure fact.

 

[Tommy_G]

You do realize that MK having 30% of points means basically that for every 3 placements in top 8 of ANY OTHER CHARACTER, MK has 1? <<

That's not meatriding, that's pure fact.

Let's not turn this into another "Official Metaknight Discussion" Thread.

 

[Mota]

MK is easily best recovery.
Ground game I wouldn't say MK, but he doesn't need it when he has the best air game.