Air Tripping - Now without video proof (yet again)...

[DragonMasterHawk]

Whew, what a strange thing.

Having read through all the posts, I can only say I'm still somewhat skeptical.

First off, I'm not calling anyone a liar--I'm just being critical. Let's act like adults, please.

I've watched Hitaku's video many times, and it really seems like some odd glitch that throws him into his "I'm now descending from my Up-B" state. The likenesses are apparent:

1. Neither the descending state nor the video state (I'll refer to the apparent trip state as such) flash as though giving invulnerability.
2. Neither states allow any form of jumping or Up-B-ing subsequently (Even if you spring off the ground as Sonic, you can't use your double jump, however you can if you spring off a previously placed spring)
3. Both states have the same tumbling animation (which is different from Sonic's air dodge animation).
4. Both states allow for A attacks during the tumble animation.
5. Both states return to the tumble animation upon completion of the A attack.

These are just things to consider, especially giving the high ratio of Sonic air trips to other character air trips. It may be that, while air tripping could indeed exist, what's happening to Sonic is something different.

What part of Hitaku has tried to replicate this are you not getting He's put Sonic at the ledge and done everything possible.

This (the "everything possible" part) is simply not true, and you need to understand that. Considering how rarely this occurs, this could very easily be Just Frame timing (meaning that exact input needs to be inputted on an exact frame). Now I have no doubt that Hitaku has tried to replicate this many times using all the ways he can, but just because he couldn't doesn't mean it can't be done. I'm not trying to say it cannot be random, but that we don't know that yet. For example, we were given overwhelming evidence that regular tripping is random (this is before it was commonly known or accepted). Someone posted a video of three Marios all being controlled by the same controller, and they tripped differently. So far, we have nothing like that for air tripping.

Things aren't proven false in Mathematics; they're proven true.

Now, with that in mind, I'd like to explore the idea that Peach's float is, internally, her walking on a platform. If you don't mind, I'd like you to describe what happened when you were dash attacked by G&W in more detail. You were in the air when you were hit, yes? Did you try to jump while you were in your "being knocked back" animation? How long did you fall before you actually tripped? Do you remember what stage it was on and where you both were when it happened?

Also, in reference to the other two air trips you've experienced: Which button were you holding to float? Also, tell me if I'm wrong: you were floating, holding one of the three buttons to float as well as pressing forward, and then you just entered the tumbling animation? Or did you stop floating and try and use your second jump? Also, if it's the former, do you know how far along you were in your float time? Is it possible you air tripped at the exact point when the game would've kicked you out of floating anyway?

You brought up a good point, Yuna. If it was just as simple as Peach standing on an internal platform, then people would be air tripping with her a lot more. But what about if it can only happen (and even then, only at the regular tripping percentage of ~1%) if you're holding forward (or maybe "press forward at the exact moment") when Peach stops floating?

Anyway, that's all I've got for now. Hopefully we can figure this out.

 

[Twin Dreams]

DragonMasterHawk, what is the relevance of your post?


You say that we should prove things to be true.



Yuna has produced two videos displaying the effect.

It is named "Air Tripping" because it prevents control of your character. (Similar to a trip on the ground, in that you lose control of your character.)
This topic is the exploration of this phenomenon.

 

[Yuna]

My point is that if tripping cannot cancel jumping animation, then would the properties of the trip be given to the character in the air? I could see that causing the tumble. Not saying this is the definitive reason, just asking the possibility of this. Unfortunately, the only way I see of disproving this specific theory is to use a move after jumping but before the tumble.

When you Air Trip, you tumble downwards. If you hit the ground, you fall on your behind, something you can only do by Ground Tripping.

This is all that's important. This is the "properties of a trip" that are relevant. This is what truly makes it an Air Trip.

 

[Twin Dreams]

When you Air Trip, you tumble downwards. If you hit the ground, you fall on your behind, something you can only do by Ground Tripping.

This is all that's important. This is the "properties of a trip" that are relevant. This is what truly makes it an Air Trip.

I didn't even think about what happens when you land. The fact that you land like had tripped is interesting. However, in my opinion, that only confirms my theory.




One way of looking at it is that when you smash left or right and would get tripped, you get "tagged" for the trip. That is to say that you character will trip as soon as possible. If tripping can't cancel jumping animation, and no one has claimed a trip cancelling their jump animation, then it would apply it to the character in the air. (assuming it's possible.)

The jumping sonic keeps his momentum from the jump, but is tumbling.
The falling sonic immediately enters the tumble.


My computer is being slow, so I'll just post again when I watch the videos, but what's the time between leaving the ground and the characters physically entering their tumble?



EDIT: Since my computer is going fast again.



Assuming Hitaku's video is half speed, it appears that both Sonics are affect ~1.5 second after leaving the ground. Though, that's my estimation with my naked eye.

 

[DragonMasterHawk]

DragonMasterHawk, what is the relevance of your post?


You say that we should prove things to be true.



Yuna has produced two videos displaying the effect.

It is named "Air Tripping" because it prevents control of your character. (Similar to a trip on the ground, in that you lose control of your character.)
This topic is the exploration of this phenomenon.

The relevance is putting forth theories and observations about a phenomenon that we are almost completely ignorant about. It could be random, it could not. I'm not disputing the videos; I'm not saying they're fake. I'm merely putting forth the idea (as have others) that, due to the afformentioned overwhelming ignorance of all of us regarding this, we could be misunderstanding what exactly is going on. If you can't (or refuse to) understand or accept this idea, then there's nothing more I can or will say to you about it.

 

[Yuna]

Stuff.

I predict you repeating already done-to-death arguments I've already refuted in the past.

1. Neither the descending state nor the video state (I'll refer to the apparent trip state as such) flash as though giving invulnerability.
2. Neither states allow any form of jumping or Up-B-ing subsequently (Even if you spring off the ground as Sonic, you can't use your double jump, however you can if you spring off a previously placed spring)
3. Both states have the same tumbling animation (which is different from Sonic's air dodge animation).
4. Both states allow for A attacks during the tumble animation.
5. Both states return to the tumble animation upon completion of the A attack.

1. It's a glitch (or so we presume). It's not exactly the same as air tripping (for one thing, you can't do anything to interrupt a trip)
2. Yes, we've established that.
3. What does his air dodge have to do with anything?
4. It's a glitch. It's weird.
5. See above.

These are just things to consider, especially giving the high ratio of Sonic air trips to other character air trips. It may be that, while air tripping could indeed exist, what's happening to Sonic is something different.

What high ratio? The fact that we've managed to capture two of them on film? That's the ratio of people with video capturing equipment at hand playing Sonic air tripping. I airtripped thrice in one sitting as Peach.

This (the "everything possible" part) is simply not true, and you need to understand that. Considering how rarely this occurs, this could very easily be Just Frame timing (meaning that exact input needs to be inputted on an exact frame). Now I have no doubt that Hitaku has tried to replicate this many times using all the ways he can, but just because he couldn't doesn't mean it can't be done. I'm not trying to say it cannot be random, but that we don't know that yet. For example, we were given overwhelming evidence that regular tripping is random (this is before it was commonly known or accepted). Someone posted a video of three Marios all being controlled by the same controller, and they tripped differently. So far, we have nothing like that for air tripping.

If it's something which can be produced every single time, Hitaku should be able to do it. What kind of just frame timing are you talking about? All Sonic did in the 2nd video was jump. Wow, just frame jumping punishes you with a trip! Good show, Sakurai!

"It's a random glitch which happens randomly" = More probable.

Now, with that in mind, I'd like to explore the idea that Peach's float is, internally, her walking on a platform. If you don't mind, I'd like you to describe what happened when you were dash attacked by G&W in more detail. You were in the air when you were hit, yes? Did you try to jump while you were in your "being knocked back" animation? How long did you fall before you actually tripped? Do you remember what stage it was on and where you both were when it happened?

1. No it's not. She's not "walking on a platform". The game is not treating her like she is. You saying she is does not make it so.
2. G&W dashattacked me, I immediately Air Tripped and dropped to the ground (no knockback) during the freeze frames/immediately following the last freeze frame. I dropped on the spot straight down.
3. I don't remember. Stage shouldn't matter as I was in the air and there were absolutely no obstacles around.

Also, in reference to the other two air trips you've experienced: Which button were you holding to float? Also, tell me if I'm wrong: you were floating, holding one of the three buttons to float as well as pressing forward, and then you just entered the tumbling animation? Or did you stop floating and try and use your second jump? Also, if it's the former, do you know how far along you were in your float time? Is it possible you air tripped at the exact point when the game would've kicked you out of floating anyway?

Y. I always float with Y. Which shouldn't matter. I doubt he programmed in that you Air Trip if you float using Y but not X.

Yes, I was floating forward. I tumbled and fell down fast. Both times, I was simply floating forward. I was not at the end of my float, no. And why the hell would it randomly Air Trip me if I was holding forward right when the float ended, anyway?

Stop trying to prove it's not random by coming up with outlandish theories on things Sakurai might've programmed into the game.

You brought up a good point, Yuna. If it was just as simple as Peach standing on an internal platform, then people would be air tripping with her a lot more. But what about if it can only happen (and even then, only at the regular tripping percentage of ~1%) if you're holding forward (or maybe "press forward at the exact moment") when Peach stops floating?

Because that's not what happened to me and because it would happen much more often. Also, we have reported Air Trips with characters other than Peach and Sonic.

So I guess many characters can Air Trip but only by doing specific things as opposed to the much more sound theory of "It's either a feature or a glitch, but it's random and can happen anytime you're in the air, I guess".

Anyway, that's all I've got for now. Hopefully we can figure this out.

You have bupkis. Most of your bupkis has been brought up and refuted before, as well.

 

[DragonMasterHawk]

Well, good show. You've managed to ignore the single most important line in my post. "Let's act like adults, please." That was written with you in mind.

You're not worth it. I suppose I can't expect someone who doesn't understand logic to think logically. That was foolish on my part.

I'm not going to reply to you again, and you can happily think you've put me in my place; that way we're all happy.

Anywho, if anyone else has any new data regarding this thing, I heartily endorse posting them so we can figure it out.

 

[ChewyChase]

I tripped with Link the other day, as I have stated...

I don't know if I agree that it is a glitch, though. Tripping was intentional, so wouldn't it follow that there is an anti-trip, the air-trip? I think Sakurai was really that dumb to AMPLIFY the randomness.

It might be a glitch where during the height of your jump, it treats that motion of moving the control stick forward and initiating a double jump like regular platform movement. Therefore, there is a VERY small chance you trip, and it is amplified with Peach due to float. It cancels the double jump motion IMMEDIATELY when you trip or are at the height of your jump and it glitches like a regular trip. I'm just guessing here, though.

IF it's not treating it as a platform, sometimes when taking a running jump with Sonic the game might slip for a second and believe that he is still running. If you don't believe that you can make the game lag when NOT online, hook up at least 3 wireless controllers to the same channel controlling 3 Sonics and make them dash. I can't imagine four, but I'm not investing in more non-tournament legal controllers.

Just a theory, I'm prepared for you to yell at me, flame me, and whatnot. After all, there have been glitches before in smash games.

 

[Chrono Centaur]

tl;dr butthurt.

Sorry, that's all I heard :<

So umm, this seems like it'll make tournament play absolutely useless, because you can just randomly Air Trip and fall to your death.

 

[Taymond]

@Everyone: No one is denying that this phenomenon could be a glitch. I believe, as I'm sure many do, that it IS a glitch. I don't think many people are claiming that this phenomenon was intentionally implemented.

The fact that it is a glitch does not make this topic worthless, though. It is a phenomenon that NEEDS investigation, because almost nothing is known about it. We don't simply want to know "Oh, it's a glitch. That sucks." We want to know WHY it's a glitch. We want to know when it can happen and when it can't. We simply want to know more about it.

@DragonMasterHawk... You seem civil enough that you should be able to understand some of the refutes people are giving you, but your already-existing distaste for people like Yuna and Twin Dreams seems to be interfering with your judgement.

For starters.. you cannot simply say something and have it be so. When you claim that Peach's float is the game-interpreted equivalent of being on a platform, you are simply making something up. Please understand this. You have zero evidence to support that the game treats floating this way, and it is in fact quite silly to imagine any programmer would take such a stupid shortcut. Peach's float has all sorts of curious, different properties associated with it that indicate it is an entirely different action than movement on a platform.

For just one of many possible examples, if that were the case, air tripping with Peach should be FAR more common. If Peach's float is no different than land movement as far as the algorithm that determines whether or not you trip is concerned, then Peach should trip about 1 in every 100 times someone smashes the Control Stick while floating. Thousands upon thousands of people should be flocking to this thread with testimonials. The rarity of the occurrence alone should tell you how ridiculous this assumption is.

Secondly.. I think you completely misunderstand the attitude of this thread. We don't know what happens when an air trip happens. We have NO idea. That's why we're all here sharing testimonials and squinting at 2 short videos, to try and learn as much as we can. We're not making ANY proclamations regarding this phenomenon other than its existence. We recognize that it is a glitch, and we are trying to understand it better.

The suggestions you are making are even more absurd and unfounded and ridiculous than anything else proposed to describe this. That's why we're rejecting your comments. Peach is just walking, only in the air? You're just being needlessly antagonistic to prove that we might be wrong. Nobody cares that we might be wrong. We know that. We don't need ridiculous examples to point out that we are still ignorant to the intricacies of some game mechanics. We're here to investigate this phenomenon, BECAUSE of that ignorance. Not to mention accounts that don't involve Sonic OR Peach. Your ideas simply don't apply there.

 

[Yuna]

Well, good show. You've managed to ignore the single most important line in my post. "Let's act like adults, please." That was written with you in mind.

You claim to have read the thread, yet you ask questions which have already been asked many times.

I'm tired of people thinking they're coming with new "helpful" suggestions and theories when they've already been answered and refuted multiple times.

 

[krlos F.]

i can't believe it! it would be a glith or somethin intentional?..... so sad... maybe sakurai wanted to add a little more of luck in this game like he said... it's not fair

 

[orintemple]

So.............. thats really freaking stupid!

These videos, especially the second one, is undeniable proof this is real. I have never had it happen to me or anyone I know ever but I can't argue with solid video evidence. This better as hell be a glitch cause otherwise Sakurai not only hates us, he also has no logical mindset whatsoever.

I have never tripped while jumping in my life...

 

[_Slick_]

I--I don't see it.

 

[Skepsis]

Short of hacking the game, it seems like someday, somewhere, an important game might be decided by this.

My video is proof of this point; Matches against the CPU might not be important, but the winner was certainly decided by the air trip.

 

[mooseproduce]

Air tripping is clearly a lame feature, but it's rare enough not to completely invalidate competitive play. Maybe in the future some 'important match' will be decided by an air trip, and emotions will be sparked, and the Internet will erupt in furious debate... and then there will be a re-match and people will continue playing the game. Life goes on etc.

Maybe if lots of people stop playing because of (air) tripping, it will result in a form of natural selection whereby the competitive scene's whiners are weeded out. NO JOHNS LOL

 

[verditude]

I think I know (EDIT: HAVE A GUESS) why this happens. I didn't read the whole thread, so if this has been refuted, sorry.

I think that if you double jump and press the stick sideways simultaneously, you have a chance of tripping, as the double jump's push is (EDIT: MIGHT BE) equated with a platform (this could have something to do with the Havok physics.) However, if you are just holding a direction and double jumping, you shouldn't trip.

Sorry if anyone was offended by the totalizing language.

 

[Twin Dreams]

I think I know why this happens. I didn't read the whole thread, so if this has been refuted, sorry.

I think that if you double jump and press the stick sideways simultaneously, you have a chance of tripping, as the double jump's push is equated with a platform (this could have something to do with the Havok physics.) However, if you are just holding a direction and double jumping, you shouldn't trip.

What about when leaving the ground?


Since when is a double jump equated with a platform?


Is it only when double jumping or is it done from leaving the ground as well?



Hitaku, when you Air Tripped, was it when you tried to Double Jump?
Same thing for the guy in the other video... were you about to double jump when you air tripped?

 

[Taymond]

I think I know why this happens. I didn't read the whole thread, so if this has been refuted, sorry.

I think that if you double jump and press the stick sideways simultaneously, you have a chance of tripping, as the double jump's push is equated with a platform (this could have something to do with the Havok physics.) However, if you are just holding a direction and double jumping, you shouldn't trip.

Here's the thing. You can't just.. make something up.. and then use it as the basis for an argument.

Are you really comfortable forming and adhering to opinions that have zero evidence to support them?

You claiming that double jump is interpreted in any way related to a platform doesn't make it the slightest bit true. The various pieces of evidence that would suggest that ridiculous assumption is incorrect, however, help to make it false. If such a simple, stupid situation were the case, then tripping should be nearly as common in the air as it is on the ground, but air tripping has a DRASTICALLY lower chance of happening.

You know next to nothing about the specific inputs in situations where people have air tripped, but you feel free enough to generalize them as if you've personally air tripped more times than I've tripped. You can't just make things up, that's not how intelligent discussion works. Bring at least a shred of likely-fallible, lacking-in-credibility evidence to back up ridiculous claims you choose to make.

In summary, this does not qualify as a legitimate, thought-out, contributing post:

"Platform.
Havok.
Trip."

Even if you turn out to have stumbled blindly on the actual cause, if and when more is know about it, there's still no merit to this post.

 

[Agosta44]

I've put in 120+ hours in Brawl, and haven't experienced an air trip.

If nothing is updated about this in the dojo by Monday, this **** ain't real, and people are mistaken.

 

[slayeriku]

This happened to me before, your unable to jump unless you atk first

 

[Yuna]

I think that if you double jump and press the stick sideways simultaneously, you have a chance of tripping, as the double jump's push is equated with a platform (this could have something to do with the Havok physics.) However, if you are just holding a direction and double jumping, you shouldn't trip.

1) Then how come it's so rare and cannot be reproduced at will? Tons of people do this every day.
2) Since when is the double jump's push equated with a platform? Why do people keep making up outlandish claims to support their theories?
3) I've air tripped while floating (hence, not jumping).

I've put in 120+ hours in Brawl, and haven't experienced an air trip.

If nothing is updated about this in the dojo by Monday, this **** ain't real, and people are mistaken.

What part of "It's extremely rare" is too hard to grasp? And obviously if you haven't experienced it, it cannot possibly be real.

Likewise, if the Dojo does not mention it, it doesn't exist either. 75% of all AT's discovered for Brawl (which for the most part are obvious glitches) disagree.

Also, I guess we're just that good that we managed to hack the game and put this in.

This happened to me before, your unable to jump unless you atk first

No you can't. No one's been able to jump after attacking (including Hitaku).

 

[verditude]

1) Then how come it's so rare and cannot be reproduced at will? Tons of people do this every day.
2) Since when is the double jump's push equated with a platform? Why do people keep making up outlandish claims to support their theories?
3) I've air tripped while floating (hence, not jumping).

First, let me apologize for the elitist/rude/ignorant sound of my 1st post, I was in a hurry and had just thought of a way that air tripping might be caused.

1) Really? You smash the stick sideways at exactly (or almost exactly, bear with me, this theory is based on a guess and still in development) the same frame as you use your second jump? If this makes no sense, read on.

2) NOTE: GUESSES TO FOLLOW. However, I think the intricacies of the physics engine might offer an explanation. I was theorizing since, the Havok engine is not used in many (if any) games in which double jumping is possible(here's a complete list of games it's used in: http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/29/73/ ), AND it strives to be realistic force-wise, it **MAY** deal with midair jumps by creating a "phantom platform" for a character to jump off of, if you will.
This "platform" disappears immediately (or almost immediately) after the jump is initiated. Now, the tripping mechanic **MAY** evaluate control stick inputs simultaneously with standing on the double-jump-created platform as it would on a normal platform, with a chance of tripping that is the same as normal tripping.

3) IDK, floats are weird too, Havok **MIGHT** interact with them similarly in an attempt to be realistic.

 

[Yuna]

1) Really? You smash the stick sideways at exactly (or almost exactly, bear with me, this theory is based on a guess and still in development) the same frame as you use your second jump? If this makes no sense, read on.

Not every time but it's a common enough occurence people should be Air Tripping much more.

2) NOTE: GUESSES TO FOLLOW. However, I think the intricacies of the physics engine might offer an explanation. I was theorizing since, the Havok engine is not used in many (if any) games in which double jumping is possible(here's a complete list of games it's used in: http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/29/73/ ), AND it strives to be realistic force-wise, it **MAY** deal with midair jumps by creating a "phantom platform" for a character to jump off of, if you will.
This "platform" disappears immediately (or almost immediately) after the jump is initiated. Now, the tripping mechanic **MAY** evaluate control stick inputs simultaneously with standing on the double-jump-created platform as it would on a normal platform, with a chance of tripping that is the same as normal tripping.

Only there's zero evidence to suggest this. For another thing, if this were true, don't you think Sakurai would've thought of it?

Not to mention that in neither of those videos did Sonic double jump. Heck, I'm pretty sure Hitaku didn't mention trying to double jump when it happened. Also, if you indeed trip because of an invisible platform, then why is there absolutely no tripping animation? And why can't you use B-moves but you can use A-moves?

"We implemented tripping. Our engines treats 2nd jumps like platforms. If people airtrip without land under them they'll die."

It seems like an awfully huge thing to forget.

3) IDK, floats are weird too, Havok **MIGHT** interact with them similarly in an attempt to be realistic.

Yeah, but if it's like that, then people should be Air Tripping every single day as Peach since all I did was float forward while holding the control stick (and I didn't even Air Trip at the start of the float).

 

[Twin Dreams]

First, let me apologize for the elitist/rude/ignorant sound of my 1st post, I was in a hurry and had just thought of a way that air tripping might be caused.

1) Really? You smash the stick sideways at exactly (or almost exactly, bear with me, this theory is based on a guess and still in development) the same frame as you use your second jump? If this makes no sense, read on.

2) NOTE: GUESSES TO FOLLOW. However, I think the intricacies of the physics engine might offer an explanation. I was theorizing since, the Havok engine is not used in many (if any) games in which double jumping is possible(here's a complete list of games it's used in: http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/29/73/ ), AND it strives to be realistic force-wise, it **MAY** deal with midair jumps by creating a "phantom platform" for a character to jump off of, if you will.
This "platform" disappears immediately (or almost immediately) after the jump is initiated. Now, the tripping mechanic **MAY** evaluate control stick inputs simultaneously with standing on the double-jump-created platform as it would on a normal platform, with a chance of tripping that is the same as normal tripping.

3) IDK, floats are weird too, Havok **MIGHT** interact with them similarly in an attempt to be realistic.

If someone double jumps as a falling character passes, do they land on the 1-frame phantom platform?


What PROBABLY happens is, during the second time you push the button, is it causes an aerial jump animation and applies the force of the new jump! No platform needed. It can be done in programming. Just adding in a new vector.


This is my opinion with my basic knowledge of programming, though. Others can clarify/verify.



However, you may be on to something. Since, in both videos presented, sonic could have input a double jump. The people in the video will have to clarify their button presses for us to be sure.

 

[Agosta44]

My little brother and I turned the game to 1.5x speed in training and spammed aerials, smashed the analog stick around, jumping, etc, for 25 minutes. Nothing happened.

Yuna, why WOULDN'T this be on the Dojo? It's not a ****ing glitch or AT. This would be a game mechanic if this existed. Sakurai isn't a ****ing idiot.

Hell, why doesnt someone just email Nintendo and find out about this?

 

[Twin Dreams]

Since Yuna just said that Hitaku never mentioned double-jumping, then I can only assume that both are caused from something that happens on the ground. It's hard to tell from Hitaku's slowed video, but it appears that both air trips happen at the same time.



Can we get an accurate input for each command in the video? (I doubt, but there's always hope.)




Also, Peach's Floating Air Trip doesn't necessarily follow the same rules as regular Air Tripping. There will be no way to tell until we fine more info on Air Tripping.

 

[Twin Dreams]

My little brother and I turned the game to 1.5x speed in training and spammed aerials, smashed the analog stick around, jumping, etc, for 25 minutes. Nothing happened.

Yuna, why WOULDN'T this be on the Dojo? It's not a ****ing glitch or AT. This would be a game mechanic if this existed. Sakurai isn't a ****ing idiot.

Hell, why doesnt someone just email Nintendo and find out about this?

Air Dodge + Landing = Wave Dash


Dash Dancing, Fox Trotting, Wobbling, Pillaring, etc. etc. etc.


Those all use in game mechanics and are considered ATs.





My theory is that a "trip tag" doesn't cancel the jump animation and is then applied to the character in the air. This would suggest that it was unintentional. However, this is also assuming that you can input between your character is told to trip from the program and actually trips.

 

[Yuna]

My little brother and I turned the game to 1.5x speed in training and spammed aerials, smashed the analog stick around, jumping, etc, for 25 minutes. Nothing happened.

Who are you and can't you just go away?

You played the game for 25 minutes? Good for you. People have played the game for 100's of hours without Air Tripping. Again, what part of it is exceedingly rare is too hard for your pea-sized brain to comprehend?

Question:
Do you have eyes?
Answer:
Most probably yes because you can read my posts.
Question:
Have you seen the videos where this occurs?
Answer:
Yes? No?

If the answer is "no":
Why haven't you?! Go view them now!
If the answer is "yes":
Why, for the love of puppies, are you challenging whether or not this exists?! It exists! The video sprove it!

Yuna, why WOULDN'T this be on the Dojo? It's not a ****ing glitch or AT. This would be a game mechanic if this existed. Sakurai isn't a ****ing idiot.

What makes you so sure this isn't a ****ing glitch?

At least you're right about it not being an AT. Who would ever want to implement a technique which disables your B-moves, jumps and if you land on ground, takes you into the tripping animation? Why would anyone choose to do it? But then again, no one has ever claimed/suggested/thought it was one!

And how can it not possibly be a glitch? What proof, anecdotal or not, do you have?! You don't even have logic on your side.

Sakurai isn't an idiot? O RLY? Then explain why Yoshi still sucks balls and Marth is still S-tier despite him wanting to balance the game out and "balancing" the rest of the Tops and Highs into infinity. Explain why it's possible to fall through the tree on Pokémon Stadium in Melee. Explains why he thought it'd be a good thing to put in that weird lip on Final Destination to screw up people's recoveries (because we no longer have DK64 and Battlefield to do that). Explain why DeDeDe has a chaingrab. Explain why certain Final Smashes are overpowered while others just suck Toot's balls.

What makes you so sure this isn't a glitch? We've already found tons of other glitches. Almost every single game in the world has a glitch. Brawl has tons.

Just because it's not on the Dojo, it can't exist, you say? Despite there being video evidence? Then slap me silly because I don't recall him mentioning Airdodging on the Dojo. Must not exist! Have they even mentioned 2nd jumping? Fast falling? Reverse B-moves? Turning around in the air by jumping (Yoshi + All characters with more than 2 jumps)? Reverse-grabbing the ledge? Wall-clinging? Wall jumping?

Hell, why doesnt someone just email Nintendo and find out about this?

Why don't you?

 

[BlackPanther]

Agosta is just another one of those fanboy idiots that became highly active on Smash Boards when Brawl came out. Air tripping huh? Just another reason for me not to play Brawl that much.

 

[Taymond]

My little brother and I turned the game to 1.5x speed in training and spammed aerials, smashed the analog stick around, jumping, etc, for 25 minutes. Nothing happened.

Yuna, why WOULDN'T this be on the Dojo? It's not a ****ing glitch or AT. This would be a game mechanic if this existed. Sakurai isn't a ****ing idiot.

Hell, why doesnt someone just email Nintendo and find out about this?

Why would a glitch be on the Dojo? That's not what the Dojo's for. The dojo doesn't say that for some random and arbitrary reason, if jigglypuff performs her final smash while the eldin bridge is rebuilding, where it's going to be built, or on the ship as it's singing on TLink's boat level, you remain the massive size you grow to during your final smash until death.

Why isn't that information on the Dojo? Because it's not intended. It's a glitch. Why would this glitch be documented on the Dojo, then?

 

[verditude]

Not every time but it's a common enough occurence people should be Air Tripping much more.


Only there's zero evidence to suggest this. For another thing, if this were true, don't you think Sakurai would've thought of it?

Not to mention that in neither of those videos did Sonic double jump. Heck, I'm pretty sure Hitaku didn't mention trying to double jump when it happened. Also, if you indeed trip because of an invisible platform, then why is there absolutely no tripping animation? And why can't you use B-moves but you can use A-moves?

"We implemented tripping. Our engines treats 2nd jumps like platforms. If people airtrip without land under them they'll die."

It seems like an awfully huge thing to forget.


Yeah, but if it's like that, then people should be Air Tripping every single day as Peach since all I did was float forward while holding the control stick (and I didn't even Air Trip at the start of the float).

1. The low occurrence rate may be due to a necessity of frame-perfect timing. Assuming tripping has like a 1% chance or so that increases with higher damage, and assuming people don't try to smash the stick from a neutral position at the exact same frame as they use their 2nd jump, air tripping should happen very rarely.

2.
a. Sakurai probably wouldn't have thought of people smashing the control stick, and thus forcing the tripping mechanic to evaluate the input, at exactly the same frame as they stand on the phantom platform. This phantom platform, if I'm correct in my evaluation of Havok, should only exist for 1 frame, while the character jumps off it.
b. You don't see Sonic double jump because he trips on the phantom platform before he gets any upward momentum from his jump.
c. Hitaku said he was pressing sideways and was about at the height where he would jump up onto the main platform. He says he doesn't recall his exact inputs, so I think he probably jumped.
d. The tripping animation doesn't happen because there is no platform to land on, as the phantom platform disappears the same frame as the trip starts.
e. We don't know enough yet to answer this (b-moves vs. a-moves) question. I'm still not completely sure how normal tripping works. You can press A after tripping on the ground to use a get-up attack, but in the air, you can't use the get-up attack, so it may just do an aerial.

3. I don't have any idea how a realism-based physics engine like Havok evaluates floats, but it **MIGHT** involve a similar platform. If so, "dashdancing" while floating could result in air trips. I don't think people usually smash the control stick in one direction after initiating a float.

If someone double jumps as a falling character passes, do they land on the 1-frame phantom platform?


What PROBABLY happens is, during the second time you push the button, is it causes an aerial jump animation and applies the force of the new jump! No platform needed. It can be done in programming. Just adding in a new vector.

This is my opinion with my basic knowledge of programming, though. Others can clarify/verify.



However, you may be on to something. Since, in both videos presented, sonic could have input a double jump. The people in the video will have to clarify their button presses for us to be sure.

1. Yes, for one frame, and thus it shouldn't be noticeable. However, the platform is likely miniscule, appearing in a very small area under the jumper's feet.

2. Havok's effort to be realistic may necessitate the creation of a platform to receive the force of the double jump, as you can't create a spontaneous force vector with no reactive force IRL. The phantom platform may receive the force of the jump so that the forces balance, and then the platform disappears.

3. Thanks, and I agree, we will have to get clarification on the button presses to support or disprove this theory.

 

[Twin Dreams]

1. Yes, for one frame, and thus it shouldn't be noticeable. However, the platform is likely miniscule, appearing in a very small area under the jumper's feet.

2. Havok's effort to be realistic may necessitate the creation of a platform to receive the force of the double jump, as you can't create a spontaneous force vector with no reactive force IRL. The phantom platform may receive the force of the jump so that the forces balance, and then the platform disappears.

3. Thanks, and I agree, we will have to get clarification on the button presses to support or disprove this theory.

Actually, I expect it would be noticeable, because this would create a cloud of dust AND it will give a character back his/her second jump. So, in theory, you could have a character jump forever off phantom platforms.

Edit: Even if it is 1 px wide.


However, I'm confused. Why can't they program the game however they want no matter what engine they are using? They can't make a conditional function to add a vector based on if you're in a falling state or not???

 

[Marx]

Just use Luigi's Final Smash while someone is in the air and they air trip.

 

[Yuna]

Just use Luigi's Final Smash while someone is in the air and they air trip.

No.

When you get hit by Luigi's Final Smash, you get Dizzied. That is, you act as if you've been shieldbroken. When you get Dizzied (or rather shieldbroken), you fly straight up and then fall down. During this time, you cannot do any moves (as in no moves whatsoever, B or A).

If you land after getting Dizzied by Luigi's FS (if they're land below you), you fall on your back (I think). What you don't do is fall on your behind (which you only do after tripping). When you Air Trip, you fall on your behind.

 

[verditude]

Actually, I expect it would be noticeable, because this would create a cloud of dust AND it will give a character back his/her second jump. So, in theory, you could have a character jump forever off phantom platforms.

Edit: Even if it is 1 px wide.


However, I'm confused. Why can't they program the game however they want no matter what engine they are using? They can't make a conditional function to add a vector based on if you're in a falling state or not???

1. There is no cloud of dust because the jump doesn't happen. The jumping animation is cancelled after the first frame, on which the trip animation is triggered by smashing the stick. The 2nd jump thing is easily corrected by making characters unable to create phantom platforms after jumping once (or more for multijump characters) and having this ability reset after landing.

2. I think that Havok doesn't allow spontaneous force vectors without a counterforce on something. It has to create a temporary platform to take the counterforce of the jump. I could be completely wrong, I probably know less about programming than you do; however, it makes sense that a realism-based engine would only allow jumping off of something solid, not air.

 

[Twin Dreams]

1. There is no cloud of dust because the jump doesn't happen. The jumping animation is cancelled after the first frame, on which the trip animation is triggered by smashing the stick. The 2nd jump thing is easily corrected by making characters unable to create phantom platforms after jumping once (or more for multijump characters) and having this ability reset after landing.

2. I think that Havok doesn't allow spontaneous force vectors without a counterforce on something. It has to create a temporary platform to take the counterforce of the jump. I could be completely wrong, I probably know less about programming than you do; however, it makes sense that a realism-based engine would only allow jumping off of something solid, not air.

No, no. Player A double jumps and creates the 1-frame phantom platform. Player B happens to "land" on that platform as well. Actually, now thinking about it, this should also apply the same vector to anyone whose character box happens to be in this frames hit box!!

Anyway, Player B would land on the platform as Player A is "jumping" off of it. Player B would create a cloud of dust.

 

[Taymond]

1. The low occurrence rate may be due to a necessity of frame-perfect timing. Assuming tripping has like a 1% chance or so that increases with higher damage, and assuming people don't try to smash the stick from a neutral position at the exact same frame as they use their 2nd jump, air tripping should happen very rarely.

Your argument falls apart here, on your very first point.

Lucas's Zap Jump requires frame-perfect timing. It requires you to smash sideways on the control stick in the exact frame you perform your second jump. If your theory were anywhere near correct, we'd see hundreds of Lucas players in here reporting having air tripped out of a zap jump.

Frame perfect timing isn't as hard or as uncommon as you think it is.

 

[Hitaku]

First off, I would like to apologize for my absence on this topic. I've been pressed for time recently and haven't had a chance to get back to this thread. Very interesting theories you guys are putting out. When reading through the new posts I recall someone asking me what I pressed when I air tripped (in relation to the double jump). Like I said before, I don't recall exactly what I pressed, however, my goal at the time was to recover onto the stage. That being said, an Up+b or even a double jump could have been very possible.

 

[B-Mon]

Isnt your player just tripping off the ledge?