Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[Mahgnittoc]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...5698381_100000481705514_1022781_5680801_n.jpg

 

[Winnar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TIv5mo2LbI&feature=related

This SERIOUSLY makes me reconsider hosting brawl at MSU

I'm ****ing angry right now

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

His own prerogative. I won't say it isn't a **** move, but I don't see why it's indicative of anything other than him being an *******.

 

[Winnar]

How about this then: an example.

Let's say this **** happens at MSU. If I see it I will be very angry and my immediate reaction will be to disqualify him. I may even ask him to leave.

I can say all sorts of stuff about the spirit of competition being betrayed through his actions. He was obviously being outplayed the first match and that they never got to play their second or third matches because m2k was abusing loopholes and running away.

I've always felt that it was the TOs' responsibility to set the record straight on these sorts of issues, and if the time comes I will stand by my guns on this.

There's a very real possibility I'll be so angry I won't even have time to think about it

 

[NinjaFoxX]

this is why we shoulda banned MK, i mean at this point i think no on would care

 

[Zatchiel]

I would give every f*** in my wallet if you banned MK.

 

[Saki-]

Take Reflex's view for this, don't ban MK unless it's community wide. This will most likely be another event where we can practice the MU for future large tournaments.

 

[Winnar]

"future large tournaments"

you mean like the national I'm hosting 2 and a half hours from where you live?

 

[TheSaintKai]

I would give every f*** in my wallet if you banned MK.

This.
Banning MK would entirely uproot the metagame. No one is looking into the future of the game with all the Ban MK talk.

 

[Mahgnittoc]

Yeah that game was gay, but he played the match. He wanted the win and he won.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

How about this then: an example.

Let's say this **** happens at MSU. If I see it I will be very angry and my immediate reaction will be to disqualify him. I may even ask him to leave.

I can say all sorts of stuff about the spirit of competition being betrayed through his actions. He was obviously being outplayed the first match and that they never got to play their second or third matches because m2k was abusing loopholes and running away.

I've always felt that it was the TOs' responsibility to set the record straight on these sorts of issues, and if the time comes I will stand by my guns on this.

There's a very real possibility I'll be so angry I won't even have time to think about it

It's your tournament; you're allowed to do as you please, but make sure something is stated in your ruleset about it, because you'll be considered a huge **** otherwise.

That said, that's Meta Knight for you.

Take Reflex's view for this, don't ban MK unless it's community wide. This will most likely be another event where we can practice the MU for future large tournaments.

It's an unfortunate situation--Basically, a majority of people would prefer Meta Knight to be banned, but people can't bring themselves to ban him in their region because they feel that they would be put at a disadvantage playing in any other region, so no one will man up and do it, so Meta Knight stays legal. It's really saddening.

In other news, we'll be talking about Meta Knight in the BBR sometime soon. Don't tell anyone I said that.

 

[Winnar]

So should I ban metaknight then? PROS AND CONS GO GO GO

 

[Wumpus King]

This.
Banning MK would entirely uproot the metagame. No one is looking into the future of the game with all the Ban MK talk.

The main reason banning is ever considered for any game is if the metagame gets centralized. So saying the metagame would be uprooted isn't necessarily a negative thing. MK has options that let him destroy the gameplay, basically.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

So should I ban metaknight then? PROS AND CONS GO GO GO

If you have a large turnout, it would make for interesting data as far as if any characters appear to be more or less viable as a result.

You may draw a separate crowd of players who quit or were discouraged by the gratuitous amount of Meta Knight.

A great deal of people would get to experience the feeling of freedom from the tyranny of a useless counterpick system and Meta Knight in general.

That said...

Some people who play Meta Knight might not be happy about that; whether it's because they don't have fun without Meta Knight or they need that artificial skill gap to succeed depends on the person.

Your tournament may gain a stigma from people who insist on playing the game by the community's standard rules.

 

[Winnar]

I've been told that I'd see a tremendous decrease in interest, and that there would be a generally negative response

opinions on that?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I've been told that I'd see a tremendous decrease in interest, and that there would be a generally negative response

opinions on that?

I doubt it would create a great decrease in interest, and I imagine that a possible negative response wouldn't be that sizable. I'd be happy without the character to deal with. Why don't you ask in your thread?

 

[Winnar]

I've already double posted as is (nobody posts in there anymore ) and I wanted to fish for opinions here before alarming anyone

though actually this could be a good way to generate traffic to the thread

edit - in other news

yaaaaay :D

 

[theONEjanitor]

i've always said that I don't think metaknight is that much better than the other characters that he needs to be banned. But I've also always said that clear planking when Metaknight does it should be clearly banned, as it is literally the same thing as making your character invincible.

As this is ridiculously hard to enforce, I think something TO's should look into is giving players the option to call for a match referee.

that said, considering the fact that we're playing a dumb game that was literally designed so specifically to be non-competitive that we're forced to adjust all the frikkin rules and ban half the stages, at this point it's pretty clear that the competitive community would benefit from him being banned. its just another adjustment we could make. the game's still gonna be dumb afterwards, but at least people will complain less.

If we're talking about DQ'ing people for "being dishonorable", that's ********, and I would DQ everyone with every character, because every good strategy in this game is cheap and lame.

i don't really think it's as a big deal in our region as it is in nationals, but ehhh whatever at this point whatever. just go to a tournament and deal with whatever you're faced with, or just quit the game. i dont even care anymore.

 

[Winnar]

I think I said something about dishonorable play, but I meant excessive stalling and planking and stuff :D

 

[theONEjanitor]

yo how do you play abel in sf thats who i wanna main

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Here I thought you were just talking about how I heard he forfeited out of winner's to put Dabuz out. I dunno how reliable my source is, but when I saw that post here, I assumed that was it.

If you're talking about MK planking and stalling, too bad. THAT wasn't your tournament. It wasn't illegal. If given the tools to win a high profile match, I'm going to take it. : /

If you want to ban MK at your tournament, I'm going to go ahead and say it will hurt me. I play Falco and I'm ****ing terrible on Brinstar and I'm going in at a disadvantage against a lot of high tier characters on most other counterpick stages. My MK is a tool I use for counterpicks, ICs, and Pikachus. I will face situations without that tool and I don't really have a good answer for them at this moment except to play Falco on it as the only other character I can play on a reliable enough level aside from MK is Link and we all know that isn't going to work and I don't believe I have time to get another pocket character up to par for the event.

I'm not going to say that I'm not interested in the results. I'm not going to say that I don't want to see what will happen at a large scale MK banned event. I'm sure as hell not saying I won't go, but I won't say that no one will complain. I won't say that it won't affect me negatively. I won't say that I can't see it hurting your attendance (although I doubt it would be the huge attendance drop that is held like a guillotine above the head of national level tournament hosts that frightens them into not banning MK).

I am for a Unity Ruleset MK ban. The biggest downside is that I think Diddy will become an unchallenged number 1 that everyone will complain about. and it's not like we don't have that now.

Go for it if that's what you feel you need to do, I'll support you, but see both sides of the coin and think it through quickly. You would need to get the word out DAMN fast in order to be able to give enough forewarning.

Also, kiss your sticky goodbye because you'd no longer be running Unity Ruleset.

 

[theONEjanitor]

banning MK would make it more like melee where ultimately only about 5 characters made sense to play, instead of, you know, one

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ryker, you could get used to Toon Link.

I am of the mind that the game would see significant metagame growth as a result of an MK ban. Marth players are few and far between these days, and he would make for the simplest transition, playstyle-wise. Perhaps we'd see more people abusing situational-but-nasty combos and getting better about landing the tippers.

One of Dedede's major stopping points would be gone, but there would still be a lot to deal with (Falco, Olimar, Pikachu), though I am of the mind that people would just more quickly learn how to deal with Dedede's stagnant metagame, and he would simply become an pocket secondary. More to come on that.

By a longshot, ROB's greatest impediment to potential success is Meta Knight. Same with Donkey Kong. Same with Toon Link. Same with Sheik, I think. Perhaps Pit. PERHAPS PT (though Marth still molests him). Though Dedede keeps a lot of those characters in check, Dedede is terribly easy to counterpick, and few people will be willing to run him on Game 1. A lot of new characters would be able to compete among the high tiers, I feel.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, you could get used to Toon Link.

I need to actually play him more because it's not that I'm uninterested. I always think Zair is longer than it is and I just don't have the timing down on when I can throw boomerangs and arrows. The way his playstyle looks at higher levels, I think he's one of Brawl's more technical characters. I like him, but he just always feels a little off when I'm playing him and it's more than a little unforgiving against Rag.

I am of the mind that the game would see significant metagame growth as a result of an MK ban. Marth players are few and far between these days, and he would make for the simplest transition, playstyle-wise. Perhaps we'd see more people abusing situational-but-nasty combos and getting better about landing the tippers.

One of Dedede's major stopping points would be gone, but there would still be a lot to deal with (Falco, Olimar, Pikachu), though I am of the mind that people would just more quickly learn how to deal with Dedede's stagnant metagame, and he would simply become an pocket secondary. More to come on that.

By a longshot, ROB's greatest impediment to potential success is Meta Knight. Same with Donkey Kong. Same with Toon Link. Same with Sheik, I think. Perhaps Pit. PERHAPS PT (though Marth still molests him). Though Dedede keeps a lot of those characters in check, Dedede is terribly easy to co'unterpick, and few people will be willing to run him on Game 1. A lot of new characters would be able to compete among the high tiers, I feel.

That's exactly how I feel. MK is the biggest road block to many characters and he doesn't have a counter to check to him, so he remains extremely common. This means the characters who are thoroughly blocked by MK can't go anywhere because he is ALWAYS going to be there.

The only issue I see is that he's also one of the big checks to Diddy and that, with Meta Knight gone, he'll reign supreme and people will just ***** about him.

 

[*Cam*]

I agree with Reflex that the metagame would benefit, but I also think that only a handful of MKs have actually reached that skill ceiling that makes them nearly impossible to beat. With mid-level players, MK shouldn't be a problem because we can always just get better than that player.

Diddy won't reign supreme because there are several people who beat him besides just MK. Peach, Lucario, and Marth come to mind.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I agree with Reflex that the metagame would benefit, but I also think that only a handful of MKs have actually reached that skill ceiling that makes them nearly impossible to beat. With mid-level players, MK shouldn't be a problem because we can always just get better than that player.

Diddy won't reign supreme because there are several people who beat him besides just MK. Peach, Lucario, and Marth come to mind.

I'm not sure how that is any more reasonable for a mid-level player than for, say, DEHF. Whether it's mid-level or high-level, you're still asking a player to make a great step up from his current skill level in order to compete with someone who would otherwise be roughly at an equal level. That is a potentially common scenario within our counterpick system, but people always have an opportunity to switch to a reliable character in that case, and Meta Knight breaks the counterpick system, making it "Go Meta Knight or Go Home."

Either way, the fact that the problem has manifested itself in any one place should make it an issue to deal with. Pokémon Trainer isn't allowed in Low Tier primarily because of me. Meta Knight has an argument for not being allowed due to a number of players and individual issues the character causes, like perfect planking and Extended Dimensional Cape.

There are a number of characters who can compete against Diddy Kong. It just so happens that most of them are almost nonexistent in tournament play because Meta Knight is there.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Meta Knight breaks the counterpick system

Let me make sure I understand you here, you're saying there is no check to a bad match-up with MK. If I play (for example) Marth, and I lose to M2K. I am forced with to make the decision on whether or not to stay with my main who I know the best or switch to a secondary which, while it's a better match-up, still does not beat MK.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Let me make sure I understand you here, you're saying there is no check to a bad match-up with MK. If I play (for example) Marth, and I lose to M2K. I am forced with to make the decision on whether or not to stay with my main who I know the best or switch to a secondary which, while it's a better match-up, still does not beat MK.

Well, there's always going to be a "best character" in any game, and not having any bad matchups isn't necessarily ban-worthy (here's looking at you, Third Strike Yun). That said, unlike most legal best characters, it's arguable that no character has EVEN matchups against Meta Knight.

You say Diddy, and Gnes laughs (no, really).
You say Snake, and Ally laughs.
You say Falco, and DEHF laughs.
You say Marth, and all the once-Marth-mains who have switched to Meta Knight laugh.
You say Wario, and I laugh.
You say Pikachu, and ESAM gives you a high five, being the only other person who thinks that.

I'm going away from my original point, though. I was talking about the stage portion of counterpicking.

Gonna pick a flat stage to minimize platform abuse? Meta Knight will just tilt you to death. You're really good on flat stages (Ice Climbers and Diddy)? He bans FD. Good luck.

Gonna pick a stage that forces you to jump often? Good job counterpicking yourself. Better yet, he can shark on the level? You'd better pick Meta Knight as well in order to stand a chance.

Oh, you beat him? What are you gonna ban? Rainbow Cruise? Let's go to Brinstar. Battlefield? Let's go to Delfino. He dominates regardless of the stage he's on, but it becomes virtually impossible to even outsmart a Meta Knight on a level heavily skewed in his favor.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That was my first instinct, but I figured I was instantly jumping to that because herp derp Falco.

Yeah, that system is EXACTLY why I play MK.

 

[*Cam*]

Reflex, I think.... I think your ESAM line just made my week.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Man, Reflex, this is off topic, but you've gotta get me into that backroom so I can argue for Yoshi's Island Pipes to be legal.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yeah, that system is EXACTLY why I play MK.

He's a catch-all that prevents players from having to deal with the system, and he's the only line of defense against someone else using him on his counterpick stage of choice.

Reflex, I think.... I think your ESAM line just made my week.

I'm glad you appreciate it, heh.

Man, Reflex, this is off topic, but you've gotta get me into that backroom so I can argue for Yoshi's Island Pipes to be legal.

We did talk about it about half a year ago, but I think the consensus was, "WE DON'T LIKE CHANGE" or something. Many people were misinformed, believing that Dedede chaingrabbed half the universe up the slope, which is incorrect. I am in favor of the stage's use, myself.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i wish i cared more about metaknight and less about random characters like pikachu and falco so I could be excited about the possibility of him being banned

@pipes, yeah if dedede can't chaingrab you off the side, i guess you can't legit ban it
its still kind of a lame stage. but I hate almost every stage in this game so meh
although ICs can chaingrab you to death on every stage.
but whatever.

 

[*Cam*]

i wish i cared more about metaknight and less about random characters like pikachu and falco so I could be excited about the possibility of him being banned

Sorry... talk to Bill_ about Snake things that work against Pika and Falco.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I am in favor of the stage's use, myself.

You just made my day.

I was talking about stagelist in the Decisive Games skype group and Overswarm popped in, asked what we were talking about, heard it was Pipes, posted this, and left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulp3CnuHMWc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6IV4a45SVo&feature=related

 

[NinjaFoxX]

ive wanted that stage legal for the past forever. its a really good stage its MKs worst stage apparently

 

[Mahgnittoc]

That and Picto should be legal again.

Diddy isn't the best character on alot of stages but eh at least had his 2 flat stages he could go to. Now its just lol ban FD.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

That and Picto should be legal again.

Diddy isn't the best character on alot of stages but eh at least had his 2 flat stages he could go to. Now its just lol ban FD.

Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl) and Stadium 1 aren't enough for you?

 

[shaSLAM]

i think its really sad how all of you let MK turn you into a community full of whiny *****es. also, you guys are beating MK's left and right and stil screaming a ban.

basically m2k was just trolling. its no diffferent from when he kils all his partners in doubles. or any other time he trolls. hes just a **** and he really really tries to be.

 

[Mahgnittoc]

I know its dumb but I hate YI and small stages make me nervous. I like (no homo) big long flat stages. PS1 is a good starter for me but in the end i like how Picto is more consistently flat then either PSs. I want to get straight to the fight.