Analyzing projectile properties and in game stategies with them

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

What I mean when I say 'smash' is hit the joystick hard. You don't need to B-stick to do any of the moves I have told you.
Is that what your talking about?
If not than ignore this post.

 

[TLMarth]

I'm confused we're talking vaguely.
What I meant was when Lucas uses his PK fire and goes back an insane amount and slides.
TL can do this with his boomerang but he doesn't slide as much

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Toonlink also only slides alittle when glide tossing, and DACUS. He just lacks the ability to slide far. Stupid ****** legs. lol

Fox i think i understand what you're saying but it does seem like b-sticking. I know form experience that you don't need the b-stick to do all the things you can also do with the b-stick and i think that's what you're doing.

Just for experimental/clarification purposes try to do it with the b-stick. Run in one direction and push the b-stick in the opposite direction and then try your techniques. you should change the way you're facing and jump back with your momentum. If im wrong then please say so and give more details/vids

in other news
who thinks i should change the layout of this? maybe put what people said into the paragraphs and find a different way to give credit, or maybe i should add more pictures, take away the pictures. anything?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Right I think I understand.
I play with the Wiimote and nunchuckas so I'm not even sure if I can B-stick, I know I can do some C-stick things though so I'll check it out.

Also just to clarify, the two moves I was talking about are both done whilst airborn.

Run in one direction and push the b-stick in the opposite direction and then try your techniques.

So I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[DCStyle]

I'm not very experienced or technical like any of you guys, and I tend to mess up my own instinctive style of playing by attempting any, but have you guys ever thought about spamming your boomerangs to SET UP a grab combo?

I once was able to pull a combo by spamming boomerangs. Once my opponent got hit, I rushed in, tapped z twice (had bomb), grabbed, and whacked the opponent until he was released, and picked up the bomb and threw it at him. It racked up major %, and had greater potential because I missed the follow up barrages of attacks b/c I was stoked about picking up the bomb.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Right I think I understand.
I play with the Wiimote and nunchuckas so I'm not even sure if I can B-stick, I know I can do some C-stick things though so I'll check it out.

Also just to clarify, the two moves I was talking about are both done whilst airborn.

So I'm not sure what you mean.

you cant b-stick you need the gc, cc, or the new hybrid.
i made a simple gif. showing what i mean. when it freezes its not your computer i just made that part longer so you can read. ignore the stage changes, they were unintenial and may be fixed later

I'm not very experienced or technical like any of you guys, and I tend to mess up my own instinctive style of playing by attempting any, but have you guys ever thought about spamming your boomerangs to SET UP a grab combo?

I once was able to pull a combo by spamming boomerangs. Once my opponent got hit, I rushed in, tapped z twice (had bomb), grabbed, and whacked the opponent until he was released, and picked up the bomb and threw it at him. It racked up major %, and had greater potential because I missed the follow up barrages of attacks b/c I was stoked about picking up the bomb.

In this thread we are trying to advance our projectile game so this should be put into consideration by all of us. The only thing i see wrong with it is that a boomerang doesnt gurantee a free grab. Is it impossible? No. Now i like how you're trying new things and there may be a way to get the grab 100% of the time, but first you need to give us more detail. Was this a returning boomerang? Did it hit your oppnent at an angle or staright on? etc.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

(good job with the Gif btw)
I suppose that those moves would only be used by people like me who can't B-stick or by people that couldn't be bothered B-sticking. Not to worry I'll keep trying to find new things.
I see you updated the OP. I'll help with the reflector part. After all, Fox has the greatest reflector there is.

 

[DCStyle]

@toondiddy : Whoops. I thought I clarified that in my post. It was the return boomerang from a STRAIGHT throw. The people I play with tend to get annoyed of my constant projectile attacks, and they are forced to roll around. If you distance yourself correctly with a straight forward boomerang attack, pull off a short hop bomb pull and arrow release, by the time your opponent rolls away (towards) you to avoid the first arrow, the boomerang should be on its way back, which would be the time to double z tap or even shield grab.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

i thought that, that was what you were talking about but i didnt want to assume incorrectly. That is not an automatic grab combo and if missed you can really be punished. however if it does hit then you're in good shape, and can follow up wiht some other good attacks.

 

[Sosuke]

This thread is actually pretty cool. o_o;
*just noticed*

 

[Disfunkshunal]

idk if i should be happy you like this thread or mad because i made it over a week ago and you just noticed

 

[Sosuke]

Well I just looked at the OP again for the first time.
I usually just read the comments.
But its all organized and nice and stuff. Good job.

 

[Bomber7]

Bombs > MK(mach tornado spammerz)

scratch that Bombs >>>>>>>>>>>>>Everything

I need to find more people to brawl so I can practice perfecting my bombing style. I'm still low tier material(note location) And im getting better to almost beating mid to high tier guys I just need that one big push to knock me into a midtier game or high tier game ^^

I love bombs for the infinite number of windows of opportunity it gives me and just like bombs lucky number is seven so is mine (go figure @.@ )(also note Bomber7)

with love Bomber7

 

[Mota]

Hmm Dont know how usefull this is but i've done this a few time (most of them unintentionally and on impulse )

Bombs: Similiar to Snakes Nade Shield tactic, Toon Link Pulls out a bomb and shields just as it explodes, dealing damage to opp while your protected in the shirld and in a close position to attack.

Cause when TL pulls out a bomb they'll be expecting a bomb throw or Zair or SH aerial, but instead you rush at them, SH or somthing and shield. Mindgames?

 

[TLMSheikant]

McDingus- I used that yesterday lol. U read my mind. I was gonna post something about that oh well, someone beat me to it.

PS- this is offtopic but i found a use for dtilt. :O

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Hmm Dont know how usefull this is but i've done this a few time (most of them unintentionally and on impulse )

Bombs: Similiar to Snakes Nade Shield tactic, Toon Link Pulls out a bomb and shields just as it explodes, dealing damage to opp while your protected in the shirld and in a close position to attack.

Cause when TL pulls out a bomb they'll be expecting a bomb throw or Zair or SH aerial, but instead you rush at them, SH or somthing and shield. Mindgames?

This could be a useful mindgame, but has a few holes. For example it only does 3% damage. this isnt necessarily a flaw though because the explosion could lead into more damge building combos. If it is expected you can/will get grabbed. This is especially dangerous around the likes of ddd, falco, ice climbers etc. The bomb needs to be ready to explode. this may or may not be useful depending on your opponent and ability to control bombs and hold on to them to the point of there self-explosion.

TLMS, i could add on a melee move part of this, but ill let the readers and you decide.

Going on 3 days now, we havent had anything really new to report. i also havent heard from fox and he said hed have some stuff about fox's reflector, however hes been working really hard at supporting this thread and i understand if hes down for a little bit. I expected this dry spill to happen, not this quickly, but i still expected it. SO now i would like to take some time to look at what we have. Has anyone here tried some of the new combos in the OP? has anyone tried to find easy was/ use the boomerang off paths in a brawl? Has anyone tried to really experiment with the b-stick. smash wiki says that toonlink is one of the characters that greatly benefit form it. thats all i can think of right now

 

[Bomber7]

I'm still tryin to develop my Bair Bomb move. It can be used to kill a MK at 100% or a little more if he is high enough. I think I have a vid showing it. bnut the best way to describe it is picture a 45-45-90 triangle. A-bottom left 45, and B(or MK in this case) being the top right 45(cuz he will be in the air) basically if a MK is trying to recover and he is high in the air you run close to or to the edge(varies, your choice it worrks a little better while using it on a recovering MK while he is up high), throw a bomb high up into the air and then jump behind the MK and Bair him into the bomb. if he is high up enough the explosion will blow him high enough off the top of the screen to kill him. This takes precise timing and a little luck. If you decide not to use it a a kill move it's good as a small Bair mind game.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Hey guys, yeah sorry about taking so long. The truth is I haven't been posting anything because I haven't found anything worth posting. I have however found a few random things that you might want to know, they may even give you a good idea as to how to use them.
As far as the reflector is concerned all I can say is bombs. If your opponent has a half decent reflector spam your bombs for 3 good reasons. If you throw it and it lands just in front or just behind, they will get hit. If they reflect the bomb but it reflects and lands just infront of them, the will get hit. If you throw it down on them or if it lands ontop of them and they try to reflect, they will get hit.
Something I noticed concerning the reflector that I will look into is if you throw a bomb up or down at your airborn opponent and they reflect it in midair, the bomb goes straight through them as if nothing happened. But if it passes through them again in the air once it's been 'reflected' it goes straight through them again.

You can't have any more than 2 unexploded bombs out at the same time.

At the moment I've been trying to figure out different things you can do whilst holding a bomb. I know you can do side smash by holding A when you pull one out and then pressing the C-stick. (does anyone know how to do airials whilst holding one?) Anyway I found a really weird way of tether recovering whilst holding a bomb. (I'm still trying to figure out a way to grab whilst holding one.) Usualy when you try to tether recovery when holding a bomb you'll just throw it. So if you want to do it you need to hold A when you pull out a bomb, jump out facing the edge, hit grab (R or whatever you call it) this will make you airdodge for some reason, when your in the airdoging animation let go of A and hit grab again. This should make you tether with a bomb in hand (though you can't see it). Possible uses? I have no idea. Maby you do this and someone tries to spike you and the explosion hits them (and you) and you smash them.

Well I did say i didn't have anything to report, so you'll just have to wait.


Ps about Mcdingus's bomb shield thing. Your much better of rolling , sidestepping or airdodging when the bomb goes off. But nice thinking.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

bomber7: i think i understand what you're trying to say and ill try to make a diagram or gif showing it to see if i truly understand and to show other people. ill give my opinion on it after i know for sure what you're talking about.

Fox: i figured thats why you werent on here. ill make a reflector section and add your input. regarding the tether while holding a bomb, its known, sorry. If you jump and airdodge then you can tether and zair while holding a bomb, i should probably add that in the OP.

NOTE TO ALL: i know that some people have come up with ideas and i only put some in the OP. i think this was a mistake on my part. If i put everything that we come up with on the front, the first thing people see, it will be there if someone knows an easier way to do it, an improvement of it, a different use for it ect. So from now on im putting everything in the OP, i might just make a new section for stategies i think need improvement. if you feel im wrong CORRECT ME

What i've been thinking of: we all know and understand that bombs are good for disrupting oppnents attacks, but can they also be good for disrupting our attacks? i threw a bomb up and caught my oppnent in an aerial spin attack today. he got out before i was finished but before he could hit me the bomb hit him, and seperated us. We may also be able to use the explosion to cancel lag on some attacks such as Fsmash, but again this is just an idea, and may be more trouble than its worth.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Something I probably should have put earlier. (I just didn't bother because it's general knowledge) You should all know this but I'm going to say it anyway because it isn't in the OP. You grab onto the ledge, hit down B then recover. This means that you’re in the exact same position you were before, only now you have a bomb. This is a simple and good move because it can quite easily be done at any time and helps a lot against edge guarders. I highly recommend that you all use this. (For the ones that already use this, do it more often.) Toon Link has one of the best off stage games in my opinion, so we should fully utilise his ability.

I'll keep trying to find something new, so hopfully you'll hear from me in the next few days.

 

[TheJerm]

I've been messing with the boomerang alot more in my game. And I'm loving it. I've been doing the trick where you run to the ledge, and right when you are about to get off, you use the boomerang and go flying off really far. Like mario's cape. Most of the time, they dodge the hit, but since they have to go up, its an almost guaranteed uair. Also, if the just throw the boomerang down when off the stage, the opponent usually falls under it, and this can lead to a spike. And, boomerand as a tech chase works sooo well =]

 

[iRjOn]

I need to contribute to this thread D:
I'll start later lol

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I've been doing the trick where you run to the ledge, and right when you are about to get off, you use the boomerang and go flying off really far. Like mario's cape.

Wow! I did not know that. I'm so going to check that out. (see what I can do with it, hmm....)

Edits

Ok, I think I've found something. No I'm not talking about the quote, I'm not that fast.
I was thinking about what Toon Link can do with his projectiles when hanging onto the ledge. I've combined two moves together to make one awesome trap. The first move I've already mentioned in my last post, your on the edge and you hit down B then recover. (Note; there are two ways to do this, the first way is you hit down B fast and release straight away, this will not make you fast fall, and the second way is you hold down B which will make you fast fall. For this particular move, we want the fast fall as the timing has to be precise) As soon as you grab hold of the ledge again with the bomb in hand, DI away from the ledge to let go and instantly throw your boomerang back towards under the level. (If it makes it any easier to understand, imagine your hanging on the right side of the level, then hit right, left B.) then straight after the boomerang has left your hand, jump and at the peak of your jump use up B. This will make sure you don't grab onto the ledge on your way back up, as you want to go above it. You don't land on the platform, you simply use up-B past the ledge and go higher than the platform, then simply fall and grab the ledge. (The first half of the up-B animation won't grab onto the ledge and the second half will. For this move you need to make sure you pass the corner of the ledge during the first half of your up-B)
Ok, here's where it gets interesting. At this point you've just finished your up B and are falling down to grab the ledge, the boomerang returns and comes out of the ground and flies above and away, hitting anyone trying to punish the up B. You grab the ledge and just incase there's still someone there the bomb goes off and you are completely unscathed because of the invincibility frames.
This all has to be done one after the other quickly. (the whole move only actually takes like five seconds) It's surprisingly easy to do and after the long and drawn out explanation, you shouldn't have any trouble.
(Note; I tested this move on both sides of Final Destination and Battlefield so I'm presuming that it should work on most levels.)

Random Stuff.
Did you know that once you use three tethers (tether recoverys) without getting back on the level, the fourth won't work until you touch the ground.

Another cool use for using a bomb if your hanging on to a ledge. Simply press jump, hold down and hit A twice. The bomb stuns them and you follow up with an almost garantied dair.

Did you know that after the first 'bunny hop' (Pogo, not bunny hop) of a dair you can fast fall the dair. The result is that if you hit anyone else (including the same person) with the fastfalling dair you won't bunnyhop (again). (And yes I know this is a projectile thread but I said it anyway.)

Ok I'm done for a while. I'm gonna check out that flying boomerang thing.

 

[TLMarth]

Wow! I did not know that. I'm so going to check that out. (see what I can do with it, hmm....)

Ok, I think I've found something. No I'm not talking about the quote, I'm not that fast.
I was thinking about what Toon Link can do with his projectiles when hanging onto the ledge. I've combined two moves together to make one awesome trap. The first move I've already mentioned in my last post, your on the edge and you hit down B then recover. (Note; there are two ways to do this, the first way is you hit down B fast and release straight away, this will not make you fast fall, and the second way is you hold down B which will make you fast fall. For this particular move, we want the fast fall as the timing has to be precise) As soon as you grab hold of the ledge again with the bomb in hand, DI away from the ledge to let go and instantly throw your boomerang back towards under the level. (If it makes it any easier to understand, imagine your hanging on the right side of the level, then hit right, left B.) then straight after the boomerang has left your hand, jump and at the peak of your jump use up B. This will make sure you don't grab onto the ledge on your way back up, as you want to go above it.
Ok, here's where it gets interesting. At this point you've just finished your up B and are falling down to grab the ledge, the boomerang returns and comes out of the ground and flies above and away, hitting anyone trying to punish the up B. You grab the ledge and just incase there's still someone there the bomb goes off and you are completely unscathed because of the invincibility frames.
This all has to be done one after the other quickly. (the whole move only actually takes like five seconds) It's surprisingly easy to do and after the long and drawn out explanation, you shouldn't have any trouble.
(Note; I tested this move on both sides of Final Destination and Battlefield so I'm presuming that it should work on most levels.)

Random Stuff.
Did you know that once you use three tethers without getting back on the level, the fourth won't work until you touch the ground? Cheese.
Yes.

Another cool use for using a bomb if your hanging on to a ledge. Simply press jump, hold down and hit A twice. The bomb stuns them and you follow up with an almost guarantied dair.

Did you know that after the first 'bunny hop' POGO!!! XDof a dair you can fast fall the dair. The result is that if you hit anyone else (including the same person) with the fastfalling dair you won't bunnyhop. (And yes I know this is a projectile thread but I said it anyway.)

Ok I'm done for a while. I'm gonna check out that flying boomerang thing.

I'll try that trap

bomber7: i think i understand what you're trying to say and ill try to make a diagram or gif showing it to see if i truly understand and to show other people. ill give my opinion on it after i know for sure what you're talking about.

Fox: i figured thats why you werent on here. ill make a reflector section and add your input. regarding the tether while holding a bomb, its known, sorry. If you jump and airdodge then you can tether and zair while holding a bomb, i should probably add that in the OP.

NOTE TO ALL: i know that some people have come up with ideas and i only put some in the OP. i think this was a mistake on my part. If i put everything that we come up with on the front, the first thing people see, it will be there if someone knows an easier way to do it, an improvement of it, a different use for it ect. So from now on im putting everything in the OP, i might just make a new section for stategies i think need improvement. if you feel im wrong CORRECT ME

So, use bombs for cooldown lag?
Would need visible preparation, and would only really be worth it for the situation you described because the hit from the bomb could be worse than the cooldown lag.

The next thing we need to learn is timings: when does the bomb explode, and when do we get our boomerang back after it disappears?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

You don't actually land back on the platform with the up-B. You jump and up-B past the corner where you would normally grab on and then fall straight back down.
The bomb explodes when you fall back down and grab onto the ledge (not the cool down lag of the up-B), so because you've grabbed onto the ledge you won't get hit/damaged. (invincibility frames) I wish I knew how to post a vid of this because it's such an awsome move. I'll just have to keep on trying to explain it. If you have any questions just ask.

Thats right, my bad, Pogo. Before I knew about this site I always called it a bunny hop for some reason.

Also when I say tether (talking about only being able to use three tethers) I mean tether recoverys.
I think thats all. (I'll have to edit it.)

Thanks TLMarth

 

[Disfunkshunal]

7-8 seconds bomb explosion
3-4 seconds boomerang return smashed
2-3 seconds boomerang return tilted

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Fox im pretty sure i know what you're talking about and it sounds good. If everything goes right i understand you're pretty much invincible. Ill try to look up possible follow ups. The only downside i can think of is it not being as effective against those with projectiles, but we'll experiment and see if we can fix that. Ill try to get some vids of it and some other stuff here up so everything can be better understood.

the OP was updated for those who care, bomber7 sorry i havent gotten a daigram up for you yet but i've been really busy with other projects ill get it done asap, irjon i think 5 days is later enough lol, the jerm, mcdingus, dcstyle, you all made the OP, and ill try to add in more coomon knowledge so people know its known, and people who didnt know can know, and so everyone can add on to it/find a way to make it easier.

Thats all for now

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Hey can anyone actually do my move? It's just that no-one's posted back saying that they could, so I'm presuming you can't.
If it makes it any easier for you I'll tell you what buttons to hit. If you need help on the timing or anything than it's all written in the other post.
Ok first of all you need to imagine yourself hanging onto the ledge on the right side. Then hit down-B, jump, up-B (your now hanging onto the ledge again) right, left-B, jump, up-B. All this needs to be done in quick succession except for the last jump up-B, with this you need to do the up-B at the peak of your jump (the reason for this is also in the other post). Then fall back down and grab the ledge and watch the fun.

Can someone please let me know that you understand and that you can do it so I can stop trying to explain.

I'll be hearing from you.

 

[freezeyboy321]

i've found a new AT with TL that could be kinda useful to mindgames( might be old )

Technique: *backwards arrow*

the steps which make up the technique are rather simple but the timing that binds it together is a little tricky.

1st: jump: it doesn't matter how high , it doesn't matter if you attack in the air and it doesn't even matter if you fastfall, just jump.

2nd: quickdraw: very widely known technique. however you need to perform this quickdraw exceptionally quick for the technique to work.

3rd: B-reversal: (once again a popular technique)change directions as / right before the twang of the arrow(easiest in 1/4 speed in training)

the whole thing: your character should take there bow out on the ground facing in the opposite direction and slide a very short distance with an arrow coming from the back of the character.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Toondiddy, I think I've found something.

It's official, you can use any aerial attack while holding a bomb. In fact we've sorta known about it for a while.
It's common knowledge that if you catch a bomb in mid air with Bair, you can continue doing Bair as long as you use it straight after the previous Bair. But to my knowledge, no-one has taken this idea any further, until now.
I have found that it's not only Bair that you can do this with, Uair does the same thing only it takes longer for Uair to execute. And how does this help? Well you can string aerial moves together once you've caught the bomb with Uair or Bair. (I recomend Bair simply because it's quicker.)

When you catch a bomb in midair with either Bair or Uair you can straight after do any other aerial move including an infinite amount of Bair's and Uair's.
So for example you pull out a bomb, throw it up, jump up and grab it with Bair, then you can do either Uair, Fair, Dair, Nair or even another Bair as long as you execute the move straight after the previous one.

Bair and Uair are special in that they are not only the only aerial moves that can grab a bomb and keep on attacking but you can use them as many times as you want after you've grabbed one. This means that you can do things like this.

Grab the bomb with Bair, Uair, Nair
Grab the bomb with Bair, Bair, Fair

Any combination you want as long as your high enough off the ground.

Grab the bomb with Uair, bair, Uair, Uair, Bair, Dair (of course you'd have to be pretty high to do this but you get the point.

All the other aerials (Dair, Fair, Nair) can only be used at the end of your combo. If you try to do any aerials (even Bair or Uair) after using Dair, Fair or Nair you will throw the bomb.

Try experimenting with this and see what you come up with.

 

[vanderzant]

i've found a new AT with TL that could be kinda useful to mindgames( might be old )

Technique: *backwards arrow*

the steps which make up the technique are rather simple but the timing that binds it together is a little tricky.

1st: jump: it doesn't matter how high , it doesn't matter if you attack in the air and it doesn't even matter if you fastfall, just jump.

2nd: quickdraw: very widely known technique. however you need to perform this quickdraw exceptionally quick for the technique to work.

3rd: B-reversal: (once again a popular technique)change directions as / right before the twang of the arrow(easiest in 1/4 speed in training)

the whole thing: your character should take there bow out on the ground facing in the opposite direction and slide a very short distance with an arrow coming from the back of the character.

This was discovered a while a ago and is known by many as "battlechrist's arrow trick" or something similar. You can also do this with the 2nd arrow of a SHDA.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

sorry i havent been here guys, forgive me?
lol ok
freezy: yea its been known, ill try to get that up on the op soon, thanks vanderzant for explaining

Fox: i'll try to work with that

thats all for now

 

[TLMarth]

Lol, I went on a custom stage with a spring, threw a bomb up, followed it with uair (catch), and then naired. But I could only nair once and then I started throwing the bomb.
So it works with bair the best?

 

[copacetic]

Don't know if anyone noticed this yet but if you're on the far right side of Yoshi's Island and throw a boomerang, it won't return and will just keep going forward. I don't see too much use for it but it will hit people recovering from below on the left and people hanging on the edge

 

[Disfunkshunal]

TLM:he means string uairs together, like you'd do with bair. i have a good stage to test it on if you want me to send it to you/to make it.

COPACETIC: yes that would be good for edge guarding. especially against pit.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Lol, I went on a custom stage with a spring, threw a bomb up, followed it with uair (catch), and then naired. But I could only nair once and then I started throwing the bomb.
So it works with bair the best?

Bair is best because it's faster. And yes, of course you threw it after the nair (it's all explained in the other post). But I'm glad you get it.

TLM:he means string uairs together, like you'd do with bair. i have a good stage to test it on if you want me to send it to you/to make it.

It's not just stringing uair's together. Don't you see? You can do any aerial attack while holding a bomb. Please read the whole post, (I think this is big). Read the whole post, try it, stuff around with it, then tell me what you think.
I'll be hearing from you.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

(Ok yes I know, double post. But the last one was yesterday and I really have to tell you something.)

toondiddy, I give you the safe spike.

There have been a few attempts to make Toon links dair spike safe but none have been that great (like z dropping the bomb, then using dair and hopfully passing the bomb on the way down when it explodes.)
Using my new found technique of being able to use any aerial attack whilst holding a bomb, (which I will quote in a second so you don't have to go back to page 5) I have found a far safer way of safe spiking, in fact there's almost no chance of lossing a life.

For any of you who haven't read my technique then here it is. Please read before you go on. If you've already read this, then just skip this part.

Toondiddy, I think I've found something.

It's official, you can use any aerial attack while holding a bomb. In fact we've sorta known about it for a while.
It's common knowledge that if you catch a bomb in mid air with Bair, you can continue doing Bair as long as you use it straight after the previous Bair. But to my knowledge, no-one has taken this idea any further, until now.
I have found that it's not only Bair that you can do this with, Uair does the same thing only it takes longer for Uair to execute. And how does this help? Well you can string aerial moves together once you've caught the bomb with Uair or Bair. (I recomend Bair simply because it's quicker.)

When you catch a bomb in midair with either Bair or Uair you can straight after do any other aerial move including an infinite amount of Bair's and Uair's.
So for example you pull out a bomb, throw it up, jump up and grab it with Bair, then you can do either Uair, Fair, Dair, Nair or even another Bair as long as you execute the move straight after the previous one.

Bair and Uair are special in that they are not only the only aerial moves that can grab a bomb and keep on attacking but you can use them as many times as you want after you've grabbed one. This means that you can do things like this.

Grab the bomb with Bair, Uair, Nair
Grab the bomb with Bair, Bair, Fair

Any combination you want as long as your high enough off the ground.

Grab the bomb with Uair, bair, Uair, Uair, Bair, Dair (of course you'd have to be pretty high to do this but you get the point.

All the other aerials (Dair, Fair, Nair) can only be used at the end of your combo. If you try to do any aerials (even Bair or Uair) after using Dair, Fair or Nair you will throw the bomb.

Try experimenting with this and see what you come up with.

Ok. To do a safe spike, first send your opponent off the edge. Then walk over to the edge and turn your back on your opponent. Pull out a bomb and then after the exact time it takes to shoot 2 uncharged arrows, throw the bomb up (I'll go into the arrows later).
When the bomb comes back down, jump up and out towards your opponent and grab the bomb with bair and then instantly use dair. If you've timed it right your opponent will be under you and you will spike them, if you miss them just after you passed them the bomb will explode and you will be able to recover.

If you find that you've grabbed the bomb with bair and your a little too early or late then luckily for you I've thought of that. If your too early and your opponent is still too far out, just after you bair grab the bomb, jump and throw it down or out at your opponent. If your too late and your opponent has already passed you or is back on stage, then right after you bair the bomb, jump and throw it back towards the stage.

Now about the arrows. If you want, you can simply time the whole move right. But if your like me and would rather know for sure that the timing is perfect then shoot two uncharged arrows. Now I said just after the quote that you should turn and face away from your opponent then pull out the bomb. But if your going to shoot arrows, then theres not much point in shooting at nothing. If your planning to shoot arrows to get the timing right then when you knock your opponent off stage and go over to the edge, I want you to face your opponent, pull out the bomb, shoot two random uncharged arrows out at your opponent, throw the bomb up, then as the bomb is in mid-air, turn your back on your opponent and continue with the move.

I hope you all understand and I appologise for the wall of text.
Please tell me if your having any problems or if you can do what I'm talking about so I know if I explained properly.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

i didnt relize it was a new post. i look a the name rather than the date and time. btw, it was the same day =P
im having problems understandng

nah jk. this sounds really good and unfortunately is much easier said than done. i can do what you're saying but i cant manage to land it on an opponent. to succesfully pull this off we need character specific information. for example what percents will knock them far enough so that this will work, not to far but far enough. we need to work with their individual air speeds too, yoshi can get back sooner than ddd can. we would need them to be below us, above obviously wont work. If people are up for the chalenge to learn all the above for each character than this will be alot more practicle. I see alot of potential in this. I know people who main lucario have to memorize alot of stuff like this so it is possible but for now this is something that wont be as useful as possible. Tell me what you're thinking about this situation.

what do you guys think of a short hop bomb drop on ground roll back. if you put the bomb on the fround so it doesnt explode and roll back once, you'll be just out of the explosion range. if your oppenent tries to come attack you, you can do some shda, or sh nair, to keep them away. if they try to grab the bomb you attack them them and depending on how close the bomb is to exploding that can stop them too. this may lead into other things or may be completely useless but cn someone experiment with it?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

yeah, different time zones. As far as I'm concerned, I wrote the first post one night, went to bed, thought of something brilliant, tested it in the morning and posted number 2. I suppose thats why we're not allowed to double post.

Um as far as not understanding, I'll try to explain as simply as I can what's actually happening, then when you get the general gist of it, try reading through the post again.
Ok whats basically happening is your pulling out a bomb, waiting for a specific amount of time (two uncharged arrow shots) after which you throw the bomb in the air, wait for it, it comes back down and you jump up and grab it with a bair (slight DI over the edge) then instantly hit dair. The result, a safe spike. Even If you miss your opponent, because you timed it so perfectly (and easily) the bomb will interupt your dair, letting you recover.

Now about that sh bomb drop on ground roll back. I think I get it, but just checking before I experiment with it. Are we pulling out a bomb, waiting a bit (not just standing there of course) doing a sh, then z-drop the bomb on the ground so it doesn't explode then rolling back?
Please tell me if I'm completely wrong or if it's slightly different.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

highlight my post under i dont understand nevermind i just turned it white again

and you got what im talking about