Animator(s) Needed for Two new taunts for Snake

Bent 00 · Oct 3, 2010

No rush, Eternal Yoshi, but are you going to address these two points regarding V0.75X?

Bent 00 said:
Snake's thumb and pointer finger now line up with the middle of his mouth when he smokes, but the flame is off center to the left:

Snake's neck still assumes an odd angle when he inhales, but this is not that noticeable:

Facing left:

Facing right:

I know you're busy with several other projects, but the Basic pack here is practically 99% done. If you can just center the flame, I'd say it's finished. Fixing the odd neck angle seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 3, 2010

Centering the flame can be done easily by moving the RHaveN bone.
I'll get on that when I get the time.

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 4, 2010

Let's decide this now:

- Should there be a new version of Snake taunts that BARELY moves the flame?

- Or a hack that makes Snake's RPG-7 aimable and usable from a distance.

Not trying to rush anyone, but I already put animations together. Snake will now "aim" the RPG-7.
It still does not have a PSA therefore it does not have distance, but I will leave the PSA to somone who has time. I don't want to rush you, Eternal Yoshi.

If you can't add the Nikita missle article as the missle to the RPG, then I guess an invisable hitbox would be good for now.

Bent 00 · Oct 5, 2010

xxTerminatorxx said:
Let's decide this now:

- Should there be a new version of Snake taunts that BARELY moves the flame?

- Or a hack that makes Snake's RPG-7 aimable and usable from a distance.

We can have both, Terminator - we just have to give Eternal Yoshi as much time as he needs.

Besides, (assuming the odd neck angle is not addressed) centering the cigarette flame is the last bit of polish that will complete the Smoking taunt, and it's a quick fix.

Just focus on something else until Eternal Yoshi gets back to us. He said he would look into incorporating your straight-firing RPG into his Guard Slayer Snake moveset, so he'll get to it when he can.

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 5, 2010

Bent 00 said:
We can have both, Terminator - we just have to give Eternal Yoshi as much time as he needs.

Besides, (assuming the odd neck angle is not addressed) centering the cigarette flame is the last bit of polish that will complete the Smoking taunt, and it's a quick fix.

Just focus on something else until Eternal Yoshi gets back to us. He said he would look into incorporating your straight-firing RPG into his Guard Slayer Snake moveset, so he'll get to it when he can.

Ok, that makes me feel alot better. I was afraid it would be overlooked.

standardtoaster · Oct 5, 2010

If you give me about 5-10 minutes, I can get you a code to edit snake's box hitbox.

Finished code. When you're done editing the code how you would like, delete the notes I added. There are two sets of each parameter because snake's box has two hitboxes.

Code:

Snake's Box Hitbox [Standardtoaster]		
4A000000 9019C200		
16000000 000000F0		
00000000 00000000		Bone/ID
00000000 00000002		Damage
00000000 00000169		Trajectory
00000000 00000064		WKB/KBG
00000000 00000032		Shld dmg/BKB
00000001 00057E40		Size
00000001 00000000		Z offset
00000001 00000000		Y ofset
00000001 FFFD40E0		X offset
00000001 00000000		Tripping Rate
00000001 0000EA60		Hitlag Multiplier
00000001 0000EA60		DI multiplier
00000000 1A431000		Flags
00000000 00000000		Refresh Rate
00000000 00CF5FC0		Special Flags
00000000 00000001		Bone/ID
00000000 00000002		Damage
00000000 00000169		Trajectory
00000000 00000064		WKB/KBG
00000000 00000032		Shld dmg/BKB
00000001 00057E40		Size
00000001 00000000		Z offset
00000001 00000000		Y ofset
00000001 0002BF20		X offset
00000001 00000000		Tripping Rate
00000001 0000EA60		Hitlag Multiplier
00000001 0000EA60		DI multiplier
00000000 1A431000		Flags
00000000 00000000		Refresh Rate
00000000 00CF5FC0		Special Flags
4A000000 90000000		
170677C8 00000008		
06150F00 9019C200		
4A000000 90000000		
170677D0 00000008		
06150F00 9019C278

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 5, 2010

http://www.mediafire.com/?ba4xmw4311yj7ms
This should have the flame centered.

Bent 00 · Oct 5, 2010

Way to go, Eternal Yoshi. I just tested the Smoking taunt for the last time - it's finished! :D

I'm assuming you agreed that addressing the odd neck angle was more trouble than it's worth... That said, it looks like the Basic Pack of Snake's New Taunts is finally complete.

The only other thing I'll ask of you regarding the Basic Pack is to insert the new taunts into the Brawl+ and Brawl- Snake .pac files:

Brawl+ Snake .pac (from Gold edition):
http://www.mediafire.com/?kr14t99ed3qbkqb

Brawl- Snake .pac (from Beta1.6 APEX Build):
http://www.mediafire.com/?6gq5p7wqzc5zc3u

Or you could teach me how to do it, if it's not too complicated. I think you should release the Basic Pack on Brawl Vault, including versions for Brawl+, Brawl-, and of course vBrawl. Terminator will also have the taunts in his "Metal Gear Solid Finally comes to Brawl" pack, but these new taunts fully deserve a release of their own IMO.

Anyhow, what's next on your to-do list, Eternal Yoshi? Are you going to start on the Stealth Pack soon, now that standardtoaster has posted the code to edit Snake's Box hitbox? It was fun having the Cloaking Device in Brawl-, and I bet the new Box features will be equally great.

Thanks again for bringing these new taunts to realization. You did an AWESOME job.

On a side note, to Terminator: Here's a close-up pic of that glitch where Snake holds the RPG wrong:

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 5, 2010

Iv'e already seen the RPG held wrong, but thanks for posting. I see you didn't see my RPG-7 texture, which it resembles the MGS4 version, same goes for the Mortar, as it resembles it's MGS4 look, check it out. I love the smoking now better than the Stealth, sorry, Stealth is for Ninja Gray Fox, or for Otacon.

It looks good, I just with we could get a cigaratte model I made over the Cracker Launcher. Yoshi, how did you get Gray Fox's armgun over his arm? Couldn't you get the cig model over Snake's mantle slot if he even has one?

Bent 00 · Oct 5, 2010

xxTerminatorxx said:
Iv'e already seen the RPG held wrong, but thanks for posting.

I thought you might not have seen it up close yet.

xxTerminatorxx said:
I see you didn't see my RPG-7 texture, which it resembles the MGS4 version, same goes for the Mortar, as it resembles it's MGS4 look, check it out.

Yeah, I haven't seen those yet. Are they in your latest MGSfctB pack?

xxTerminatorxx said:
I love the smoking now better than the Stealth, sorry, Stealth is for Ninja Gray Fox, or for Otacon.

I still want to see the Stealth Pack made, even if only for Brawl-. But yeah, the Basic pack does a really good job giving Snake two very iconic new taunts from his games.

xxTerminatorxx said:
It looks good, I just with we could get a cigaratte model I made over the Cracker Launcher. Yoshi, how did you get Gray Fox's armgun over his arm? Couldn't you get the cig model over Snake's mantle slot if he even has one?

I think the difference is that Gray Fox's armgun is always present, whereas you wouldn't want a cig in Snake's mouth at all times. IIRC, it's always on or always off when it comes to vertex hacks.

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 6, 2010

It's only present when he uses his neutral B.
I attached it to a different bone and animating it became much easier.

It's possible to make a Cigarette only present when he uses a certain action.

Here you go.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=12769

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 6, 2010

Bent 00 said:
Yeah, I haven't seen those yet. Are they in your latest MGSfctB pack?

Yes they are, check them out, I used actual screenshots from MGS4.

Eternal Yoshi said:
It's possible to make a Cigarette only present when he uses a certain action.

Can you still do that now? I mean, you could do what you did when you attached the armgun to Gray Fox. I mean, you made him pull out a railgun which is just fantastic since you didn't replace any items, couldn't you use that model I made and do the same thing for Snake?

I mean, all it needs to be decreased to the appropiate size, maybe some other parts of the model, no need to texture it, I already did that with textures Friedslick6 sent me.

http://www.mediafire.com/?d7pkbpj4zstj2qj

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3915/cigarattemodel.png

Bent 00 · Oct 6, 2010

Eternal Yoshi said:
It's possible to make a Cigarette only present when he uses a certain action.

Here you go.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=12769

Awesome, I'll be testing this out ASAP.

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 6, 2010

xxTerminatorxx said:
Yes they are, check them out, I used actual screenshots from MGS4.

Can you still do that now? I mean, you could do what you did when you attached the armgun to Gray Fox. I mean, you made him pull out a railgun which is just fantastic since you didn't replace any items, couldn't you use that model I made and do the same thing for Snake?

I mean, all it needs to be decreased to the appropiate size, maybe some other parts of the model, no need to texture it, I already did that with textures Friedslick6 sent me.

http://www.mediafire.com/?d7pkbpj4zstj2qj

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3915/cigarattemodel.png

That can't be done without sacrificing an article.
For Gray Fox, I used the slot where MK's mantle(cape) would go.
Until we can add articles(which I cannot test at this time), try some other method.

Snake doesn't have a Mantle slot, only MK has one.

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 6, 2010

Eternal Yoshi said:
That can't be done without sacrificing an article.
For Gray Fox, I used the slot where MK's mantle(cape) would go.
Until we can add articles(which I cannot test at this time), try some other method.

Snake doesn't have a Mantle slot, only MK has one.

Ok, I just wanted to clarify that. I thought the Mantle was some usless article MK had, and I thought Snake would have one too.

I just wish we could add articles without the game acting stupid and BEEEEEP occuring.

Bent 00 · Oct 6, 2010

Eternal Yoshi said:
It's only present when he uses his neutral B.
I attached it to a different bone and animating it became much easier.

It's possible to make a Cigarette only present when he uses a certain action.

Here you go.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=12769

Heyy, you had me thinking that you figured out a way to have the cigarette appear when Snake smokes, without sacrificing an article. You could have added, "but one of Snake's articles would have to be sacrificed, as has been mentioned before."

Speaking of which, no one ever said exactly which/how many articles Snake has. Are any of them expendable, like Meta Knight's "mantle"? I'm guessing not.

52 downloads on the Snake Taunts Pack (Basic) already... Congrats, Eternal Yoshi.

Just two more comments on the Basic Pack:

1.) I would appreciate it if you would add "with credit to Bent 00" to the Brawl Vault page, for the testing, quality assurance, general ideas, or whatever else you want to call the work I did.

2.) No offense, but I think you could have picked better pictures to use as examples on the Brawl Vault page. Some of the more recent ones I posted give a better impression of the Smoking taunt. I could upload some new pictures if you like - any certain Snake textures I should use?

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 6, 2010

Snake has 10 articles.
He uses all of them.

Bent 00 · Oct 6, 2010

Okay, no cigarette texture then. I'm fine with that.

Thanks for adding "with credit to Bent 00 for testing, concepts, and such" too.

I'll gather the best example pics in this thread shortly, and post them in case you want to use them on the Brawl Vault page.

Update: Here's two good shots of the Salute:

Here's two good shots of Smoking in action:

...And here's two decent up-close shots of Smoking:

I think any three of those would be good to use, but it's up to you.

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 7, 2010

I know this dosn't have much too do with the thread, but this is somthing I have been working on tonight.

That's right, Plisken from MGS2. He's really cool and I thought I should finish him up.

Here are some more pics:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5922/al1010070243binout.jpg

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5703/al1010070244binout.jpg

As you can see, I added alot more, like texturing over his headband. I also tried adding his headset. If you notice, his headband tail STILL remains after trying to get rid of it, so I need somone to vertex it off please. He still needs vertexed ears too so they don't look like "robot ears."

Download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?nfs0zxbqn71s8hg

By the way, can somone tell me how to add "Spoiler" tags?

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 7, 2010

You should vertex the head so the Bandana is more in line with his head.

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 7, 2010

Like flatten it out? It's not that noticable from a distance and not as nearly as bad as the Headband tail or the ears. Could you download it and do some needed vertex work? I have no idea and for some reason my computer lags when getting DasDonkey Vertex Box.

Bent 00 · Oct 7, 2010

FYI, the "Snake Taunt Pack(Basic)" is currently the most popular download on Brawl Vault, at 75 downloads a day. Granted, it's only been up for one day, but hey, top of the chart! :D

Also...

xxTerminatorxx said:

I see you're using one of the older versions of the Smoking taunt, lol. That flame used to be huge. XD

Seriously though, I'm glad you're working on MGS2 Plisken. It's looking good so far... The only things that bug me are:

- No eyebrows?!
- Robot ears (thanks for remembering)
- Bandanna sticks out as EY said, tail remains as you said
- No hairline; goes straight from forehead to hair, no middle ground

xxTerminatorxx said:
By the way, can somone tell me how to add "Spoiler" tags?

Add spoiler tags with [ spoiler ] and [ /spoiler ] to black out text, but not pictures.

Like this.

You can hide pictures and text with [ collapse ] and [ /collapse ] .

Like this.

Just remove the spaces from the tags, and they'll work.

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 7, 2010

I'm just gonna take it off of KC:MM. Nobody is downloading it, and it's not even done. I'll just post the regular link instead.

http://www.mediafire.com/?nfs0zxbqn71s8hg

Why does nobody want to vertex headphones and flatten his headband along with vertexing off his headband tail? This would come out very epic if somone would just want to help me with this.

Finally, somthing cool get's top downloads. My pack got that same thing too! Nice yoshi...

Bent 00 · Oct 7, 2010

xxTerminatorxx said:
Why does nobody want to vertex headphones and flatten his headband along with vertexing off his headband tail? This would come out very epic if somone would just want to help me with this.

Who have you asked for help, besides Eternal Yoshi? He stays pretty busy, and we can't assume that guys who know how to vertex hack will read this topic.

Maybe Eternal Yoshi knows someone else you can ask if he doesn't have the time to do it.

Speaking of him, I never got an answer regarding the status of the Stealth Pack...

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 7, 2010

Bent 00 said:
Who have you asked for help, besides Eternal Yoshi? He stays pretty busy, and we can't assume that guys who know how to vertex hack will read this topic.

Maybe Eternal Yoshi knows someone else you can ask if he doesn't have the time to do it.

Speaking of him, I never got an answer regarding the status of the Stealth Pack...

I'll ask Irishladdie.

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 9, 2010

I can open OSA2 now.
I had to fix something in my .NET Framework.

I found and edited the Grenade and Box hitboxes.
Will test soon.

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 9, 2010

Eternal Yoshi said:
I can open OSA2 now.
I had to fix something in my .NET Framework.

I found and edited the Grenade and Box hitboxes.
Will test soon.

I always wondered why Snake's grenades wern't as dangerous as the way they were in MGS:TTS. A real grenade could kill you from alot farther than the ones in Brawl lol.

Can't wait to see this. Also, how is aimable RPG-7 going?

Bent 00 · Oct 9, 2010

xxTerminatorxx said:
I always wondered why Snake's grenades wern't as dangerous as the way they were in MGS:TTS. A real grenade could kill you from alot farther than the ones in Brawl lol.

True, but the grenades would be broken in Brawl if they were any stronger.

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 9, 2010

Who cares if they are broken, I mean, yeah, it sucks to have somthing broken. But if your going to add grenades from a Metal Gear game they should be as strong as they usually are.

Also, somone should vertex Snake's grenades smaller. I was just playing MGS:TTS this morning and I compared them to the Brawl ones. Brawl ones are way to oversized lol. If you noticed in that pack of mine, I ported MGS:TTS grenade textures to Brawl grenades and they came out good. They just need a size vertex.

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 9, 2010

Bent 00 said:
True, but the grenades would be broken in Brawl if they were any stronger.

*Cough*GuardSlayerSnake*Cough*

I'll update GSS with the needed files later.

Bent 00 · Oct 11, 2010

xxTerminatorxx said:
Who cares if they are broken, I mean, yeah, it sucks to have somthing broken. But if your going to add grenades from a Metal Gear game they should be as strong as they usually are.

I care. Terminator, it seems to me that you mainly want to make Brawl Snake as much as possible like he is in his games. I think there's a lot of good that can and already has come from that... But when you break game balance, that's going too far to suit your own interests IMO. Most people who play Brawl care much more about game balance than obsessively accurate representation of any given character.

Of course, you can hack whatever you want, but you should always keep game balance in mind, unless you're working on something like Guard Slayer Snake. Just keep your target audience in focus... "Broken" hacks are mere novelties to those of us who care about game balance, so if you want your hacks to see regular use, you need to keep them balanced.
Not that intentionally "broken" movesets aren't fun - they are, but most people will revert back to the balanced versions after the novelty wears off.

xxTerminatorxx said:
Also, somone should vertex Snake's grenades smaller. I was just playing MGS:TTS this morning and I compared them to the Brawl ones. Brawl ones are way to oversized lol. If you noticed in that pack of mine, I ported MGS:TTS grenade textures to Brawl grenades and they came out good. They just need a size vertex.

The grenades are oversized in Brawl for a reason: So that the player can see them better, and so that it's easier to pick them up and do techniques with them. No offense, but IMO this is another example of you wanting to go too far to make Brawl Snake just like he is in MGS.

Think about it - what purpose would shrinking the grenades have, other than appeasing your desire to fit MGS Snake into Brawl? It would only be an inconvenience to Snake mainers, since grenades would be harder to see and possibly harder to pick up.

I'm all in favor of bringing more MGS into brawl, but you should know that the appeal of broken hacks are very limited. Game balance is a big part of what makes Brawl+ and - so fun to me and many others. Snake is more than powerful enough as-is... That's why I started maining Falcon back in vBrawl, since it was too easy to beat my friends as Snake.

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 11, 2010

Also why I still use Yoshi.

I'm modding hitboxes of several items atm.
Also trying to get OBJ model importing via SZS modifier to work.

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 11, 2010

Bent 00 said:
I care. Terminator, it seems to me that you mainly want to make Brawl Snake as much as possible like he is in his games. I think there's a lot of good that can and already has come from that... But when you break game balance, that's going too far to suit your own interests IMO. Most people who play Brawl care much more about game balance than obsessively accurate representation of any given character.

Of course, you can hack whatever you want, but you should always keep game balance in mind, unless you're working on something like Guard Slayer Snake. Just keep your target audience in focus... "Broken" hacks are mere novelties to those of us who care about game balance, so if you want your hacks to see regular use, you need to keep them balanced.
Not that intentionally "broken" movesets aren't fun - they are, but most people will revert back to the balanced versions after the novelty wears off.

The grenades are oversized in Brawl for a reason: So that the player can see them better, and so that it's easier to pick them up and do techniques with them. No offense, but IMO this is another example of you wanting to go too far to make Brawl Snake just like he is in MGS.

Think about it - what purpose would shrinking the grenades have, other than appeasing your desire to fit MGS Snake into Brawl? It would only be an inconvenience to Snake mainers, since grenades would be harder to see and possibly harder to pick up.

I'm all in favor of bringing more MGS into brawl, but you should know that the appeal of broken hacks are very limited. Game balance is a big part of what makes Brawl+ and - so fun to me and many others. Snake is more than powerful enough as-is... That's why I started maining Falcon back in vBrawl, since it was too easy to beat my friends as Snake.

Ah, your right. I was looking into it to much. I just wanted Snake to have the same respect as he has in MGS. Your right, broken hacks will be dropped, eventually, you want the player to want the hacks. So does this mean drop the pointable RPG-7 idea?

Bent 00 · Oct 11, 2010

I'm glad you agree.

Actually, I like the straight-firing RPG idea - at the very least, I think it will be a perfect fit for Eternal Yoshi's Guard Slayer Snake.

I would recommend making versions of the straight-firing RPG for vBrawl, Brawl+, and Brawl-. That way, people could try it out and keep it if they like it... And if it's well-received, it might even be accepted into the next Brawl+ (less likely) or Brawl- (more likely) release.

What do you think of that, Eternal Yoshi? And are you going to use any of my suggestions for Guard Slayer Snake? I'm looking forward to the next release.

...BTW, the Stealth Pack is still on your to-do list, right? Any progress on that?

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 12, 2010

I want, smoking, salute, moving box, and pointable RPG-7 in a seperate FitSnake.pac file and FitSnakeMotionEtc.pac file.

Will this be done eventually?

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 14, 2010

Maybe.

In other news, I'm occupied with a bunch of other stuff, half of which is IRL stuff, like mopping and laundry. Fun.

For the time being, I want Snake to make some sort of pose or action when the stealth device is activated.
What do you think should be this pose?

Bent 00 · Oct 14, 2010

Eternal Yoshi said:
For the time being, I want Snake to make some sort of pose or action when the stealth device is activated.
What do you think should be this pose?

Good question... Until something better is suggested, I'd say that the first half of the current version of the Cloak taunt - Snake dropping to one knee as he cloaks - is pretty good. The second half of that version looks cool, but it doesn't make sense for Snake to bow down all the way like that... Besides, that's an exact copy of his entrance animation. :/

...In the Metal Gear games, does Snake strike any kind of pose before he cloaks? I don't remember. At any rate, a couple of random ideas:

- A motion to activate the cloaking device on his utility belt
- A hand gesture, such as snapping his fingers or making the "shh/be quiet" gesture

xxTerminatorxx · Oct 14, 2010

Eternal Yoshi said:
Maybe.

In other news, I'm occupied with a bunch of other stuff, half of which is IRL stuff, like mopping and laundry. Fun.

For the time being, I want Snake to make some sort of pose or action when the stealth device is activated.
What do you think should be this pose?

Agreeing with Bent, I think his idea is good. Like I said before, somone should add a custom sound effect where Snake says, "This is what true fighters strive for... *dissapears.*
Of course, I don't remember Snake ever saying that, so scratch that, but also custom sound effects are hard.

- A hand gesture, such as snapping his fingers or making the "shh/be quiet" gesture

Yes.

WARNING: OFF TOPIC!

This is really, really, starting to agravate me. Remember that Twin Snakes Snake that Afgan productions made? I really need this, bad, since I can greatly improve it. His main thread is locked, and when I private message him, he ignores me, except this one time:

That Snake needs fix...

Well, I got a model and everything, I could just improve his texture with my model, and I got many ways of fixing his. Could somone seriously, just help me get those precious textures (like pming him too)? I so need them for what I am working on.

Bent 00 · Oct 19, 2010

*crickets*

Hey Eternal Yoshi, any news? Particularly regarding the Stealth Pack? It's been about five days since we last heard from you.

Eternal Yoshi · Oct 20, 2010

I recreated the Cloaking Device over the Side Taunt.

I'm thinking about what to do about the moving box.......
I can add animations easily for the box moving, but I wonder how to make the game read them..........
I'm going to start with trying to get him to move in the box.

But first, I need to test the taunts.

Animator(s) Needed for Two new taunts for Snake

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