Annoying...

[Monjula]

So lately I've taken a big liking to Ike. It's fun to smash someone in the face at 60% damage and watch them fly~

However, there are a few characters I've been having trouble with. Fortunately, Ike isn't my only chara, or these charas would screw me over big time. I was hoping that some fellow Ike players might give me some tips on the following fights...

Alright. I decided to edit the OP a bit.

Instead of whining about who I can't beat...I'm whining about who I can't beat, why, and suggestions that have been posted.

Snake

Problem: Insane amount of spamming projectiles.

Solution: simple dodges, "not walking into ****"
A few ideas after fighting: QD through grenades, aerial dodge missiles BUT DO NOT TRY TO PUNISH RIGHT AWAY. Let him slip up when he's close to you and punish.

New problem: Mortar dashing.

Olimar

Problem: See above.

Solution: Spammed pikmin? Spam SH NAir. Will normally prevent grabs and bat off pikmin.
New problem: Grab range and predictability.

G&W

Problem: Crazy Aerial punish and strange movement.

Solution: Countering Aerials, avoiding and BAiring. Also, counter Dair with Bair.
Continued problem: Movement pattern

Pikachu

Problem: See name.

Solution: Not a full solution, would like it if someone posted an idea for countering Spam B, however SH > Air dodge seems to work well if you have timing down right.
New problem: How to punish once you get close enough. Pikachu can move across the screen again in about 2 seconds, especially on FD.

Falco

Problem: Laser / SH laser spam.

Solution: My idea is to hop over and QD, but that leaves you open for punishment...Horribly so. Help?

Will continue at a later time. Or earlier, seeing as it's 1am now. >.>

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

counter G&Ws ariels cause its pretty hard to out prioritize his dair and his bair pokes trough your shield alot
falco try not to get grabbed and if you do idk what i do to escape but just try as hard as you can and his lasers are pretty predictable if you ask me

idk about the rest and my advice might only work against mediocre people

 

[Cowchampio]

i'd say for olimar:

run through any pikmin he throws at you (dodge purple pikmin) and hit em hard with an fair.
if you space it well enough, he shouldn't be able to shield grab you. if you knock him off the stage, just ledgehog and he should fall to his death.

if he's above you in the air, just use your uair/usmash since he's probably most vunerable from underneath.


im at a loss with the other guys XD

 

[Monjula]

Thank you both for the advice. I usually get 50/50 win/loss against Olimar, but that little bit of advice should help. Though, if I'm running through his thrown pikmin, he could toss a grabbing one at me and screw that all up, but I'll try.

Thanks again. =]

 

[Aether_Lord]

Toon link you should try to dodge his aerials nair works well to start up combos against him if hes aboe the 80s just pressure him to the edge if he makes a mistake F tilt him he should die if you dont have stale move effect everyone else um yeah good luck with that

 

[Monjula]

Agh...Toon Link is really annoying. Most of my play is Aerial, most of my approaches being such as well (especially against TL, since he spams his projectiles) but I'll give that a shot.

 

[PKSkyler]

Snake I have a tough time with as well....you want to be in just the right range so that your sword hits and he cant hit you, but not too far so that your sword misses and he hits you with projectiles...

I played a toon link one time he was pretty good with projectiles but bombs, just grab them and throw them back, arrows just dodge them, and boomerangs it good to shield, hold your shield, toon link approaches, you grabout of the shield, throw up or down then aether and the boomerange barely wizzes by.

 

[Monjula]

Seems a bit more effective than what I do. I just need to be a little more patient against my foes, I guess, 'cause I'm also somewhat of a berserker. ._.;;

Thank you for all the advice everyone. ^^

 

[Lawlb0t]

MK and Snake should be a problem, not those other chars.

 

[Falconv1.0]

You are killing people with Smash attacks, thus your opponents suck and at a real tourney, you're gonna have a hard timing beating anyone. Use U smash when there are plat forms or to edgeguard, and d smash against nubs who roll too much.

 

[_Slick_]

You can't beat Toon Link with anyone, period.

 

[MMhawk607]

for G&W maybe spam some A,A,A combos; catch him with a F-Air and that will leave him some damage

 

[Monjula]

MK and Snake should be a problem, not those other chars.

Funny thing is I have no problem against MK usually. Snake does annoy me, and Toon Link just spams his projectiles to keep me away.

You are killing people with Smash attacks, thus your opponents suck and at a real tourney, you're gonna have a hard timing beating anyone. Use U smash when there are plat forms or to edgeguard, and d smash against nubs who roll too much.

I never said that, though I do kill some newbies with Smash attacks. I said that I like when I connect with my Fsmash and it kills with half the effort--though worded differently. I kill the better people with Bair and other such things, but thanks for the advice (even if I did know it already.)

You can't beat Toon Link with anyone, period.

I'll find a way to beat TL with Ike someday. Until that day comes I'll leave YOU with...lolPit&Kirby.

for G&W maybe spam some A,A,A combos; catch him with a F-Air and that will leave him some damage

Um...There's a lot more strategy than that, but thank you for trying. o.o;

 

[Aether_Lord]

Snake one advice play defensive with your nairs so he cant do his snake slide

 

[Monjula]

Hmm...Good idea, but what about when he stops sliding and starts projectile spamming? D:

 

[Falconv1.0]

Try to predict Snake and use the universal strategy of dont walk into the ****. Ike should be able to avoid most of his attacks, forcing him to close in.

 

[Monjula]

I'm about ready to give up on Ike...

Unless I can find local matches (lolNorthernCO) instead of all online stuff, 'cause I think that the lag of online play (1 second-3 seconds even with direct connection) is screwing with any strategy I have. >_<

 

[cj.Shark]

for tl shield alot! spot dodges and air dodges arent that good because tl's aerials have little lag time.
in the air he almost always outprioritizes you while also spacing. but since your ike its actually not that bad as pretty much all your moves outrange him. dodge his d-airs <--pretty easy if u ask me. and use your fairs to keep distance. nairs dont work quite as well since tl aerial game is way better than yours.

if your bored nair his boomerang lol! if u stay on the ground it helps when fighting tl. best finishers are your uptilt and upair as tl is pretty light

 

[Monjula]

If I stay on the ground, all I get to do is play dodge and shieldfest against his Projectiles. Even if I manage to get him annoyed by doing this, Boom > Arrow > Bomb > grab. If I dodge any one of those, the next comes in and the whole rest of the set ***** me. Even if I dodge the bomb, I get grabbed. But this doesn't mean I'll stop trying...I think I can beat him now, though. >.> I've been practicing a lot..

 

[Drako Knight]

snake you should try to stay close to. don't let him use c4/mines.

 

[Veggi]

Man projectile users are so hard for me when I use Ike too, the best idea I can give you is when people are using projectiles just try to get to them as fast as you can and then be on their back the whole time. For Olimar I use DK and I just hit him as much as I can and hope my magic ftilt kills all his Pikmin as they come out, but Ike's ftilt seems too slow for that. Against Snake I blow up his mines with Eruption, and try to keep him off stage so I can force him to use up b so I can spike him. General advice for all of these is be on their back until you get them off stage and then finish them off. Olimar might be beaten with a fair and then edge hog. Snake would be spiked. Toon Link I think fair might beat him while he's off stage in the air. Falco I really can't figure out other than his up b takes a while to start up and it isn't good.

I wish Ike had his Ragnell lasers right about now.

 

[Doodx]

lol with olimar, forward b will make you avoid his projectiles and get to that tiny *** man

 

[Agent Snop]

I need help with spammers like samus & snake ,can everyone me ?

 

[SheikahBlood]

Counter Pick Delfino Plaza for snake and dunk his *** under the water with your d-air

 

[Agent Snop]

Counter Pick Delfino Plaza for snake and dunk his *** under the water with your d-air

-.- isn't better to pick toon link ship level?-.-

 

[PCHU]

About Toon Link....
My friend is a very decent player, in that he can read people's moves.
He is very good at dodging and spot-dodging.
But, he tend to stay in the air a lot, so he gets launched by me when I go under his character and usmash.
I also found that he lacks airdodging skills.

But enough of him.
Counter is your friend.
No, counter is IKE'S friend.
Aether is also your friend.
Fight for them, and you shouldn't lose.

 

[Monjula]

Hm...
Agreed that Counter is Ike's friend. However, pulling one off against a spamming pikachu is hard. Especially when that Pikachu is adamant about going to FD. Every. sdjklsd. time.

I've had a problem with FD since Brawl came out. I likes it in Melee, but not here...And back then, it wasn't because of the loledges.

I guess if I'm going to use Ike, one thing I'm going to have to fight for as well is a platformed stage...

Smashville ftw.

 

[forky]

So lately I've taken a big liking to Ike. It's fun to smash someone in the face at 60% damage and watch them fly~

However, there are a few characters I've been having trouble with. Fortunately, Ike isn't my only chara, or these charas would screw me over big time. I was hoping that some fellow Ike players might give me some tips on the following fights...

Alright. I decided to edit the OP a bit.

Instead of whining about who I can't beat...I'm whining about who I can't beat, why, and suggestions that have been posted.

Snake

Problem: Insane amount of spamming projectiles.

Solution: simple dodges, "not walking into ****"
A few ideas after fighting: QD through grenades, aerial dodge missiles BUT DO NOT TRY TO PUNISH RIGHT AWAY. Let him slip up when he's close to you and punish.

New problem: Mortar dashing.

You haven't even touched on the real problem against snake, which is grenade countering. You cannot QD through grenades, because a smart snake will hold onto them... if you are a QD happy ike he can just start placing a mortar on the main stage and hugging it, and then no more QD, if he holds a grenade, you cannot attack him without being blown up. There is no real way to stop this if a Snake camps it, and frnakly, Snake is a painfully direct counter to Ike. Your best bet is to exchange damage in your favor, but then again snake has a better F, and U tilt than Ike, so our two big powers are gone vs him. It's a bloody hard matchup. Try keep him off the ground and on top of him. It's a bad matchup though, no doubt. I believe at perfect spacing you can blow up the nade he's holding with a FAir, but then you just get punished because he will more than likely be shielding as it comes down. To be dead honest, your best bet is to actually know snake really well, time his nades, know when you can throw them back, and try force mistakes, because if you let a snake keep you at an arms length (which is easy with nade counters) you will lose.

Olimar

Problem: See above.

Solution: Spammed pikmin? Spam SH NAir. Will normally prevent grabs and bat off pikmin.
New problem: Grab range and predictability.

Learn to edgehog effectively. That is all. You can just spam JAB and kill all his pikmin, all of Ike's attacks have a longer lasting hitbox (except BAIR sorry) than Olimar's super armor, and yeah, don't let campers camp. If he is standing back throwing pikmin, close the gap, you have better range than he does with attacks, (and are more protected as such) ... Also if olimar goes off the edge he can't physically recover ..... Assuming you are able to reach the edge.

I don't have much expierience vs either Pika or G&W, against a Pika you are definately at a disadvantage, i'd suggest learning to TapDI out of his D-smash and just yeah, have at ... Can't offer anything better on that sorry

Falco

Problem: Laser / SH laser spam.

Solution: My idea is to hop over and QD, but that leaves you open for punishment...Horribly so. Help?

Will continue at a later time. Or earlier, seeing as it's 1am now. >.>

Once again, dealing with lazers is hard as it was in Melee, you need to simply understand damage exchange well (It's a HUGE part of Ike's game as far as i'm concerned)

Characters like Falco who spam a non-dangerous but annoying dmg stacking projectile, you need to force punishments. If you are nearby, he cannot laser. Don't let him get away, chase with QD rather than try to QD over lazers, you just need to be that 1 second ahead of him in your mind, when you get the feeling he's trying to get away from you to start lazers, QD in the direction you expect (basic read here) and Tilt that way - but you need to keep up with it. Also, learn Falco's F-smash range, as it's very confusing sometimes and can catch you out (it's like ... only a TINY bit shorter than Ike's)

And yeah. Lazers.

And yeha, can i get a general consensus from people to STOP advising people to counter stuff. DONT COUNTER. Spot dodge or shield. Counter gets you murdered unless you use it ONCE and never again lol.

 

[Monjula]

Open with a counter and people seem more hesitant to rush and hit you, more likely to grab, which is slightly easier to punish.

I agree with your points, Forky, and once I'm done being lazy I'll update the OP again. Thanks for the contributions.

The reason I opened this thread was because Ike has such a ****ed disadvantage against so many characters, I want to close the gap as much as possible for other people who use Ike. ...Even if it is hard.

 

[Kilik 64]

From what I read Ike does better on platformed stages. Why is that?

 

[Monjula]

Against most characters, Ike gets a slight boost when he has platforms nearby because:
A) Most projectiles don't arc, so he can use the platforms to avoid being spammed by those and
B) Most of his Aerials, if not all, are faster to use and have slightly less predictability than his ground attacks, and have a good deal of knockback to them, so if someone gets on a platform above him, he can hit them easier.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

i want to DESTROY PEACH!!!
ok...back to the topic,
ike has a VERY hard time w/ ppl w/ projectiles...
try finding a main to counter this.

---however if u find an encounter w/ porj. spammers,
my theory is that once you trip 'em up, go aggro on them,
im not sure if there is any perfect approach, usually they smash u as u draw near, so counter shud help u alot...

 

[Monjula]

I have 6 people I practice with, I'm finding Ike is a good 'wtf' win, but after that I pull someone else off my roster and fight.

(Note: Other characters are Marth, Ness, Lucas, Kirby, Pit, and occasionally Link.)

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I think if you just generals get better projectiles won't be as big a problem as they are now. this one guy who would always own me with his spaming is a peace of cake now. I 2 stock him every match. then one time I started to fight this other spamy pit and for the 1st few matches I was having trouble but I got used to it after like 3 fights and started winning every match and after I got a 2 stock lead once I just stood there and took the hits after he got me to 400% he just killed him self. After you get better it won't be that much of a problem.

 

[Monjula]

Hmm. Well, I agree with you there, Arturito. Or should I call you Mr. Burrito? Either way, I need to fight more spammers so I can get around their strategy...The only handicap I currently have, though, I believe is being limited to online play because it doesn't teach...just makes e-peen grow. D:

 

[Kodachrome]

Online play is terrible, I agree...Once you learn to flow and mix it up, feel confident letting the projectiles whoosh around you while you move essentially however you want, both toward and away from your opponent...you'll be in a good spot. Like a rock in the water, my friend.

Of course, half of learning is knowing the OTHER character you're fighting. Once you know what setups are good for them, you know what setups are GOING to be used against you-at least, at first. Always keep these things in the back of your mind, young grasshoppah. To be honest, I get a real kick out of simply standing in place and powershielding each and every projectile. It's almost embarrassing for the other person, I'd imagine.

*is too tired for this shenanigans. goes to bed*

 

[Monjula]

Yea. I've been learning who to be 'lax against and who to crowd lately...Played a pretty decent Lucas user and was able to destroy him with patience. >.>

 

[Kodachrome]

oh MAN, do my lucas matches take long or what. The best thing is to f-tilt them so they have to recover from a low spot. Then walk off and Fair their *** back to the boundary. Forcing people to recover low is extremely important in floaty matches. That and vertical kills...which are tough for me, against lucas.

 

[Monjula]

Well, my best advice is to dance around them a bit, see what they use and where they use it, and counter accordingly (not the move..)

Though that's rather basic advice...

And...And I also found out that Short hops are your best friend against Lucario.

 

[forky]

oh MAN, do my lucas matches take long or what. The best thing is to f-tilt them so they have to recover from a low spot. Then walk off and Fair their *** back to the boundary. Forcing people to recover low is extremely important in floaty matches. That and vertical kills...which are tough for me, against lucas.

You need to learn to Dtilt tethers. If you can see it's what lucas is going for (he's the easiest tether char to be able to predict a tether, rather than UpB) simply run and Dtilt, and work the timing. If your tilt goes off the same time as their tether due to it's lag you will spike them (Dtilt has a downward sweep in it's attack frame, which hits slightly below the stage)

Then spike .. but you can always just chill near the edge, and Fair out when you see it coming.