Any and all differences that the 1.1 DR causes [WIP] Updated 10/24

[NatP]

I read the entire front page and it said nothing about meteor smashes, which is why I asked if they were changed AT ALL. Like is the window to jump after larger or smaller or something.

 

[Ripple]

I read the entire front page and it said nothing about meteor smashes, which is why I asked if they were changed AT ALL. Like is the window to jump after larger or smaller or something.

10% more knockback. and since flayl said no conjecture, I will tell you to that I will assume no

 

[Flayl]

thnkaman confirmed it for me, but I guess we were wrong. I did not intend for that to happen. I do not have access to frame data, he does

So... why are YOU in charge of this thread? Let me be clear, I think organizing this stuff is very helpful and I'm glad somebody stepped up, but I thought the whole purpose of the thread was to compile a list of fully tested differences.

Also, before I forget, the knockback part isn't the only thing that was/is conjecture: You still have the chaingrabs and the DI VS SDI of multi-hit moves.

What moves did you have to SDI in 1.0 but now only have to DI in 1.1?

I'll stop being nitpicky with this whole conjecture label shtick if you post examples and don't use blanket statements.

 

[Ripple]

So... why are YOU in charge of this thread? Let me be clear, I think organizing this stuff is very helpful and I'm glad somebody stepped up, but I thought the whole purpose of the thread was to compile a list of fully tested differences.

Also, before I forget, the knockback part isn't the only thing that was/is conjecture: You still have the chaingrabs and the DI VS SDI of multi-hit moves.

What moves did you have to SDI in 1.0 but now only have to DI in 1.1?

I'll stop being nitpicky with this whole conjecture label shtick if you post examples and don't use blanket statements.

I'm in charge because me and renegade were the ones behind this. AND I can STILL TEST A LOT. I can't test everything with frame data but I know I can do a **** good job at testing things, such as safety and guaranteed fallow ups in situations. you don't need to have a modded wii to gather info about frame advantage. I will test differences in both versions at different %s. I may not have EXACT frame data. but I can tell you what will work and what won't.

chaingrabs are OBVIOUS and are not conjecture. Wario's chaingrab on DK is EXACTLY half as long. falco's chaingrab on D3 is exactly 1/3 as long.

the DI vs. SDI is probably poor wording. I should have said " DUE TO INCREASED KNOCKBACK, CHARACTERS HAVE A GREATER CHANCE OF ESCAPING MULTI HIT MOVES"

and I WILL POST EXAMPLES. CAN YOU NOT WAIT FOR THEM? in case you didn't notice, this thread is 3 days old and I have been sick (I did post that). I haven't been able to test more or update it

 

[Flayl]

See, just because it's 1/2 as long for Wario on DK and 1/3 as long for Falco on D3 doesn't mean all chaingrabs can't be affected in other ratios. That's what I'm getting at.

 

[Ripple]

See, just because it's 1/2 as long for Wario on DK and 1/3 as long for Falco on D3 doesn't mean all chaingrabs can't be affected in other ratios. That's what I'm getting at.

that isn't the point that people are supposed to take away from reading that. you're being way too literal.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

See, just because it's 1/2 as long for Wario on DK and 1/3 as long for Falco on D3 doesn't mean all chaingrabs can't be affected in other ratios. That's what I'm getting at.

you cannot assume things are a guaranteed halfed for CGs. Part of DKs and Bowsers problem is a design flaw in which their bodies and faces are hunched over fairly far making it easier to regrab. Course theres other elements that make a CG work, but those two issues are things DK/Bowser will always have an issue with unless their physical design and animations are some how changed...

DDDs dthrow is set up so that the knock back is fixed and its been proven by other people that this programming was intentional. What makes DDDs chain grab unique is 2 elements; 1. Grab range 2. Dthrows knockback. What falco and pikachu lose is in 1.1 is the lower knockback they needed in order to regrab. Was their Chain grabs intentional? I dont know. All we know is that both pikas dthrow/fthrow and falcos dthrow had the prefect elements in place in 1.0 to allow them to CG with the low kb at low %s

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

that isn't the point that people are supposed to take away from reading that. you're being way too literal.

Maybe, but his point is that if your reporting facts from testing they should be facts and not general blanket statement.

I know what you mean about the, "It doesn't matter in the long run." Because once you got it listed it won't really matter what was there before.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

ya know instead of wasting your time with this you could actually try improving at brawl. Just a suggestion whatever though.

 

[Luxor]

I read the entire front page and it said nothing about meteor smashes, which is why I asked if they were changed AT ALL. Like is the window to jump after larger or smaller or something.

Frame window to meteor cancel should be the same; meteors should not be buffed.

Also, before I forget, the knockback part isn't the only thing that was/is conjecture: You still have the chaingrabs and the DI VS SDI of multi-hit moves.

What moves did you have to SDI in 1.0 but now only have to DI in 1.1?

None. In Brawl, you can't truly DI hits until they reach a certain knockback threshold. Even in 1.1, weak multihits will never reach this threshold, meaning you can't alter the angle you're sent at but you can SDI and teleport away. Some weak multihit moves may have the weak hit strengthened so that you don't even have to SDI out (idk, Sheik's Fsmash?) since it'll knock you too far anyway, but in that case you don't SDI or DI.
This is a good place to note that SDI will be easier to do with higher hitlag, but the actual distance traveled per SDI input remains constant. Same goes for Shield SDI and shieldstun (OP says in one part that shieldstun doesn't change; incorrect, it does).

the DI vs. SDI is probably poor wording. I should have said " DUE TO INCREASED KNOCKBACK, CHARACTERS HAVE A GREATER CHANCE OF ESCAPING MULTI HIT MOVES"

Factual and good.

See, just because it's 1/2 as long for Wario on DK and 1/3 as long for Falco on D3 doesn't mean all chaingrabs can't be affected in other ratios. That's what I'm getting at.

Yep, needs testing.

 

[NatP]

Hm, so if shieldstun is improved, doesn't that mean that more moves will become safe on hit? Like, *gasp* some of ganon's moves? o.0

 

[Luxor]

Shieldstun in frames is floor(damage/3) IIRC, so it doesn't actually matter unless the extra 10% damage pushes you over a number that's divisible by three. A move dealing 13 damage would have the same shieldstun, while a 14 damage move would have one frame more. That being said, that's not even a noticeable change from Brawl and nothing that was unsafe in 1.0 will be safe in 1.1. Testing for combos and CGs and the lime is the key issue here because we don't have actual formulas for those.

 

[Ripple]

luxor, damage is not increased. try it your self. therefor shieldstun is not affected.

I'll try an update later today.

I'll post all of falco's grab stuff and a few other things

 

[Zankoku]

ya know instead of wasting your time with this you could actually try improving at brawl. Just a suggestion whatever though.

If you have no intent to contribute to the topic, then please refrain from posting.

 

[Luxor]

luxor, damage is not increased. try it your self. therefor shieldstun is not affected.

...I just kind of assumed 1.1 damage ratio meant 1.1 damage multiplier >.<
Is it only 1.1 KB or what?

 

[Ripple]

If you have no intent to contribute to the topic, then please refrain from posting.

*sigh* you quote the only post I didn't report..... oh well. Let's see if he actually listens this time.

thanks ankoku

...I just kind of assumed 1.1 damage ratio meant 1.1 damage multiplier >.<
Is it only 1.1 KB or what?

yes. ONLY knockback

 

[Ussi]

1.1 damage ratio DOES INCREASE damage % done by moves....... ON WIFI -_-

seriously, i just did a bit of 1.1 DR on wifi and Ike was doing 18% jabs, Ganon was doing 25% dairs, and daayum shields where sliding everywhere.

I play in verse mode.... Normal damage output..... ?!?!?!!?!? I'm so confused.... at why the game is programed like this

 

[Tesh]

Wow.....that is crazy...I guess it will make this tough for anyone to test over wifi....or practice on wifi at all.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

And people said I was crazy for noticing increased shield push when I played on wifi!

(too late for me to check if its true, hopefully someone else can confirm or deny HE HE HE)

 

[BSP]

I think it does increase damage a bit. I'm positive Sonic's bair does 13% in Vbrawl but it was going 15% at some points in 1.1. I'll try to play with someone who can post vids so I can show that change.

 

[Ussi]

that change will ONLY be on wifi. Go test it yourself in verse mode, Sonic will be doing normal 1.0 damage %'s at 1.1. But when you go on WIFI, it will get a x1.1 boost on all moves (everything is rounded up)

and btw, Epic 1.1 DR gets its own sub forum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN2rqIOmJS8

THIS video is proof! Ike's jab did 18% at 17 seconds

 

[EPsilon933]

and btw, Epic 1.1 DR gets its own sub forum

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=257

So cool! The first topic should be epic.

 

[John12346]

THIS video is proof! Ike's jab did 18% at 17 seconds

That... might be wrong. Keep in mind Brawl actually does measure damage into the decimals, and Ike's Nair and Jabs may do 10.5 damage and 17.5 damage, respectively, regardless of the DR.

EDIT: Wait no, I was wrong. Look at 1:26; Lucario's damage goes from 41 to 60 from Ike's Jab, meaning that it's doing 18 to 19 damage.

 

[Tesh]

I turned the damage ratio up to 1.5 and ganon's dair for 35% damage. An increase in damage AND knockback is pretty different meaning people won't be able to test this online at all.

 

[Flayl]

Wow, that's stupid. Why the **** did the Brawl developers think it should vary from offline to online?

 

[BigWenz]

Wow, that's stupid. Why the **** did the Brawl developers think it should vary from offline to online?

why are u so surprised this game is made by the same idiot who thought tripping should be in a fighting game.

 

[Ussi]

That... might be wrong. Keep in mind Brawl actually does measure damage into the decimals, and Ike's Nair and Jabs may do 10.5 damage and 17.5 damage, respectively, regardless of the DR.

EDIT: Wait no, I was wrong. Look at 1:26; Lucario's damage goes from 41 to 60 from Ike's Jab, meaning that it's doing 18 to 19 damage.

I know Ike's jab combos go 16 15 14 14 13 from fresh to staled 5 times.

I know Ike's fair does 13% and nair goes 9%

But yea you see now.



they probably missed it in testing cause with that wifi, who could imagine testing that wifi.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That... might be wrong. Keep in mind Brawl actually does measure damage into the decimals, and Ike's Nair and Jabs may do 10.5 damage and 17.5 damage, respectively, regardless of the DR.

EDIT: Wait no, I was wrong. Look at 1:26; Lucario's damage goes from 41 to 60 from Ike's Jab, meaning that it's doing 18 to 19 damage.

This might affect Lucario's pummels since at 0% no aura buff his pummels do .5% damage, you need two pummels to do 1% damage, good still that Lucario has a really fast pummel.

Still I want to test this with other characters since there are a few .5% ratios that might change on wifi.

Wifi is going to be a problem it looks like. :/

 

[Ripple]

figures that the one day I can play on wifi, we find this out

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=257

So cool! The first topic should be epic.

that link doesn't lead anywhere

 

[Tesh]

I'm gonna lol if the wifi version turns out to be even more "balanced" and no one gets to play it offline.

 

[BSP]

that change will ONLY be on wifi. Go test it yourself in verse mode, Sonic will be doing normal 1.0 damage %'s at 1.1. But when you go on WIFI, it will get a x1.1 boost on all moves (everything is rounded up)

and btw, Epic 1.1 DR gets its own sub forum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN2rqIOmJS8

THIS video is proof! Ike's jab did 18% at 17 seconds

That's odd...gotta wonder why they would do that.

 

[Ripple]

with this impossible to test online IDK if I even want to try this anymore

 

[Ussi]

Yea its a bummer -.-

Should add that wifi increases damage % so others know when they read the thread or people won't be going saying it after "testing" it on wifi.

 

[Luxor]

that link doesn't lead anywhere

The inner workings of the Smash Lab aren't public to mere mortals obv

 

[vVv Rapture]

Normally I'd say that using 1.1 is useless if it has differences between online and offline play; ask any Gears 2 player why MLG dropped it and you'll find out. One way to play the game offline and several different updates for the game online definitely didn't jive with the fellas at MLG. Thanks for the ****ty competitive support, Epic. >_>

However, thinking about it in terms of Smash, the game already has a terrible online mode and isn't one of the biggest ways to practice the game (could be wrong, but I'm sure tournament play and offline friendlies are a lot more common), while with Gears playing online between the big MLG tournaments was huge.

So, it may not be that big of a deal with Smash. If 1.1 was used...well, people would just have to deal with it on WiFi or not use WiFi to practice and...well, you know, use an actually beneficial way to practice (except for those outliers that somehow get good by playing WiFi and level 3 bots).

 

[Luxor]

^M2K lol, if you leave out the Wifi

Honestly, I think we'd sooner see Balanced Brawl become a tournament standard than 1.1 DR. Distribution is hardly even a problem, relearning characters is hardly a problem. I'd say Brawl+ but that died, and P:M isn't out yet. Too amazing, I guess.

 

[Deleted member]

I was testing out Pikachu's D-throw chain-grab against Fox, Falco, Wolf, and MK. Pikachu gets 4 grabs at the most against all of the space furries.

There is no re-grab on MK.

I might test this out against the rest of the cast later this week.