ILoveRice
Smash Apprentice
I have been playing SC for not so long.. and I'm tired of getting owned back to back especially by koreans.... and i was wondering if there would be any guides for SC.
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Any guides for SC?
- Thread starter ILoveRice
- Start date
pockyD
Smash Legend
you're not going to learn how to beat koreans by reading guides
watching vods is the best way to improve aside from actually playing people (people that are better than you, but only slightly so that you don't just get blindly wrecked)
watching vods is the best way to improve aside from actually playing people (people that are better than you, but only slightly so that you don't just get blindly wrecked)
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
I don't know much about starcraft but I always hear people talking about koreans when they mention pros.
Is it an inside joke or are the koreans really that good at starcraft?
Is it an inside joke or are the koreans really that good at starcraft?
ILoveRice
Smash Apprentice
oh... well my internet right now.. is not going to allow me to really watch youtube... but i have watched a couple SC vids with jaedong vs bisu.. it gave me an idea of strategies to do.. and.. it seems everybody i play basically just destroys me.. i feel like I'm the worse SC player in iccup >.>
@ stabbedbyanipple
koreans ARE really good at starcraft they have 2 whole channels for starcraft in korea and starcraft is basically their national sport.. >.> they get paid like 200k a year for playing it.
@ stabbedbyanipple
koreans ARE really good at starcraft they have 2 whole channels for starcraft in korea and starcraft is basically their national sport.. >.> they get paid like 200k a year for playing it.
for starters, you should just get some basic habits down if you wanna play sc better
I'm no expert, but for noobs like us there's a few big ways to get better.
1: Make sure that you get in the mindset of maximizing your resources. If you're queueing up units from the same gateway, for example...you should build another gateway instead of queueing up units. Think about whether you should expand or make more units based on what your opponent is doing and what they can do to you. Constantly make workers (as p and t), that's huge in the early game. Zerg drone timings are more difficult, but the idea is to get away with making as many drones as you can, which just comes with experience.
2: Look up some build orders on liquipedia...those will help you to get an idea of the average pace of a game and what you could be doing with your resources. It also helps to give you a target number to follow (i.e. if your first tank comes out at 20 supply instead of 19 supply, ask yourself whether your supply depot was late or your gas was late or there was anything else that caused you to be behind in the build order).
3: Watch more VODs. This will only really start to help you once you begin to know build orders, but it can give you an idea of game sense in particular. Once you can begin to guess why progamers make the decisions they make, you'll have a better understanding of the game itself.
I'm trying to get better too, but it's a long road, and I still suck.
this is only really basic advice, MU advice just comes from playing more or just posting a thread on TL (teamliquid)
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Main_Page
oh s2j added a link there already lol
teamliquid is worth a checkout too: http://www.teamliquid.net/
for more advanced advice and critique, post a replay after you've got a couple builds down
I'm no expert, but for noobs like us there's a few big ways to get better.
1: Make sure that you get in the mindset of maximizing your resources. If you're queueing up units from the same gateway, for example...you should build another gateway instead of queueing up units. Think about whether you should expand or make more units based on what your opponent is doing and what they can do to you. Constantly make workers (as p and t), that's huge in the early game. Zerg drone timings are more difficult, but the idea is to get away with making as many drones as you can, which just comes with experience.
2: Look up some build orders on liquipedia...those will help you to get an idea of the average pace of a game and what you could be doing with your resources. It also helps to give you a target number to follow (i.e. if your first tank comes out at 20 supply instead of 19 supply, ask yourself whether your supply depot was late or your gas was late or there was anything else that caused you to be behind in the build order).
3: Watch more VODs. This will only really start to help you once you begin to know build orders, but it can give you an idea of game sense in particular. Once you can begin to guess why progamers make the decisions they make, you'll have a better understanding of the game itself.
I'm trying to get better too, but it's a long road, and I still suck.
this is only really basic advice, MU advice just comes from playing more or just posting a thread on TL (teamliquid)
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Main_Page
oh s2j added a link there already lol
teamliquid is worth a checkout too: http://www.teamliquid.net/
for more advanced advice and critique, post a replay after you've got a couple builds down
D
Deleted member
Guest
only the best 3-4, and popular old stars do, everybody else, even if they are decent hardly make more than 60k. All b-teamers probably make no money and just get free lodging
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Main_Page
this is a good place to start for build order stuff. write it down on a sticky pad and practice it and learn how to adjust when your opponent has a weird build order
ILoveRice
Smash Apprentice
oh okay, I've been to TL's site once or twice and read their builds, i play zergs and I have been following up on Jaedong's build and julyzerg's i usually go spawning pool and then lair+spire or Den and then another hatchery but sometimes i feel like im doing something wrong even if im doing the build right cause it always seems that even though i am building what TL tells me to build i am still getting owned by protoss rush and marines shooting everything i have and me just looking at my screen with a blank face
D
Deleted member
Guest
going spawning pool and then lair spire before 2nd hatch is a very risky nonstandard build used by only top zergs who can micro their mutalisks really well
I have never seen them use that build in a while
don't do that build unless u are good at muta microing
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2 gate counters (soft) a 9 pool build, going 12 hatch and scouting them that they are going 2 gate is very easy to counter if you make sunkens and lings and dance them around the zealots. If they commit to the sunkens you smack them up and run when they turn around
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in general zerg plays very reactively. Until you get mutalisks out (and after they get science vessel etc) zerg does not dictate the flow of the game unless they do some maniac build. It's very important to get a feel of when to make drones or fighters based on what the opponent has or is sending. Unlike terran or protoss, larvae builds everything and knowing when to commit to either is difficult
I have never seen them use that build in a while
don't do that build unless u are good at muta microing
---
2 gate counters (soft) a 9 pool build, going 12 hatch and scouting them that they are going 2 gate is very easy to counter if you make sunkens and lings and dance them around the zealots. If they commit to the sunkens you smack them up and run when they turn around
---
in general zerg plays very reactively. Until you get mutalisks out (and after they get science vessel etc) zerg does not dictate the flow of the game unless they do some maniac build. It's very important to get a feel of when to make drones or fighters based on what the opponent has or is sending. Unlike terran or protoss, larvae builds everything and knowing when to commit to either is difficult
ILoveRice
Smash Apprentice
i guess that's why it doesn't work for me I have terrible micro and my muta stacking sucks.
how many sunkens and lings should i make? and i'm not quite sure when to make another hatchery and where.. sometimes when i attempt to make another hatchery that hatchery just ends up getting blown up and usually i either make to many sunkens or to many lings :o
so does that mean i have to scout a lot, despite the fact that my units are going to die..?
how many sunkens and lings should i make? and i'm not quite sure when to make another hatchery and where.. sometimes when i attempt to make another hatchery that hatchery just ends up getting blown up and usually i either make to many sunkens or to many lings :o
so does that mean i have to scout a lot, despite the fact that my units are going to die..?
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
but you made the right choice in picking zerg for awesome points
D
Deleted member
Guest
like i said before zerg is a reactionary race
if you make sunkens for no reason you will become owned by huge econ loss (50+75+50+money that drone would have mined per sunken), at the same time if you get greedy or don't notice a terran's 12 unit army coming you will die.
most maps have a cliff for an overlord to see units coming out. If you can't, put zerglings in front of their base to see when they push out. Most of the time Terrans push out with their 12 units (for bio) to force zerg to make sunkens. You need like 3 or 4 or 2-3 if you made decent zergling numbers. If they commit to the sunkens you **** them in the back with zerglings
There's a lot more to explain but there's simply too much to talk about, I could talk on and on.
Zerg is definitely the hardest and sexy race, which is why I play terran
ILoveRice
Smash Apprentice
Oh okay thanks yeah.. i asked a friend on help with sc also and he told me there is to much to explain.., it always seems that i always choose the difficult options in every single game..
ILoveRice
Smash Apprentice
i hate protoss they are poop.
SFAT
Smash Ace
Anybody want to play Starcraft with me later? Through Hamachi.
mio
Smash Ace
Koreans : Starcraft :: Mango : Melee
Nasty_Nate
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 1,164
I would. AIM is Lime827
Edit:
So as far as this topic goes, in Starcraft you should know EXACTLY what your doing wrong unless you keep failing against a certain strat no matter how timely your counter is. The hurdle in starcraft isnt really knowing what to do (Until you become really good and are playing really good people) but rather being able to do it (for example, being able to expo while pressuring/harassing and macroing at the same time)
That being said, if you dont have a pretty good idea what you should be doing, you gotta watch alot more vids. Obviously you shouldnt understand as much as a korean, but you have to get to a certain point point of understanding before you can just learn through playing. Itd be like someone never playing melee before trying to beat decent melee players, while not understanding what wavedashing, l-canceling, etc etc, and not knowing their uses.
Watch more GOM. Tasteless tells you everything. If you hear tasteless mention a technique but not elaborate on the finer details, THEN that would be something a starcraft player could clarify.
Edit:
I can tell you dont understand the game very well by this statement alone. You have to be as efficient as possible in this game. You have to scout nonstop throughout the whole game and do everything you can to keep all your units alive. This means (for example) posting zerglings outside your opponents base if you cant get in (lets say they're terran) and sending them away as soon as as the marines push out, so you dont lose any.
Micro is something that comes with experience. It obviously isnt your biggest problem at this point. The fact that your asking how many sunkens and lings to make when you didnt even say what race your playing against or what build their doing tells me your looking for the easy answer (even if I did know what race/build you were playing against this is a hard question to answer unless your very specific with timing, unit count, etc). The fact is you have to see what your opponent is doing and then build sunks or lings accordingly. If you build them before hand your wasting money on something you dont need yet (and probably wont need at all since your opponent will see it and counter it accordingly)
So as far as this topic goes, in Starcraft you should know EXACTLY what your doing wrong unless you keep failing against a certain strat no matter how timely your counter is. The hurdle in starcraft isnt really knowing what to do (Until you become really good and are playing really good people) but rather being able to do it (for example, being able to expo while pressuring/harassing and macroing at the same time)
That being said, if you dont have a pretty good idea what you should be doing, you gotta watch alot more vids. Obviously you shouldnt understand as much as a korean, but you have to get to a certain point point of understanding before you can just learn through playing. Itd be like someone never playing melee before trying to beat decent melee players, while not understanding what wavedashing, l-canceling, etc etc, and not knowing their uses.
Watch more GOM. Tasteless tells you everything. If you hear tasteless mention a technique but not elaborate on the finer details, THEN that would be something a starcraft player could clarify.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I am down to help people but after having several SC binges I have trouble coming back
but i am glad I got sort of bored of this game, the hardest strategy game in the world
but i am glad I got sort of bored of this game, the hardest strategy game in the world
too bad GOMTV's getting the axe because of KESPA muscling in on e-sports broadcasting rights and pressuring teams to not compete in GOM.
Nasty_Nate
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 1,164
Srsly? I knew Kespa was gay but ***
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
yeah man, poor GOM 
BobbySiege
Smash Rookie
It's okay everyone! Calm down! I'm half Korean!
Okay, so you have these little things called Hatcheries. You want to produce units from said Thingy. Now, you want to send them to the enemy base. Now repeat.
Seriously though, go play SFAT. SC is a game that takes a LOT longer then Smash to learn. SFAT has the basics down and you can buff up your PvZ matchup. I play Terran, so the only thing I can say about Zerg is upgrade, upgrade, upgrade.
Okay, so you have these little things called Hatcheries. You want to produce units from said Thingy. Now, you want to send them to the enemy base. Now repeat.
Seriously though, go play SFAT. SC is a game that takes a LOT longer then Smash to learn. SFAT has the basics down and you can buff up your PvZ matchup. I play Terran, so the only thing I can say about Zerg is upgrade, upgrade, upgrade.
pockyD
Smash Legend
more drones
D
Deleted member
Guest
what a vague thing to tell a noob (upgrades upgrades upgrades)
generally, you want to upgrade carapace zvp. A lot of protoss get +1 zealot weapons which do 16+2 + 16 + 2 = 36 which kills a zergling in 2 hits (not good). If you have equal carapace as their weapons, your zerglings will die in 3 hits. The other upgrade, melee weapon attack is more for mid/late game orientated play
you don't want ANY ground upgrades zvz, there is a new zerg trend where zergs get +1 air attack but most zergs don't get any air upgrades and instead opt for just one more muta
tvz - zergs USUALLY get evolution chamber after their spire to increase carapace. Simiarily to v protoss, you don't want your units to get ***** really fast. Then they usually get melee attack because late game zvt, depending on how much gas zerg is allowed to get usually comes down to defiler/lings/ultra or defiler/lings/ lurkers
ranged attack is not popular because most zergs want to save money for upgrades for the units they will be using more late game ( zerglings, ultras) and even if lurkers kill in 3 hits instead of 2 they are still good underneath swarm but most terrans just run away when a swarm pops up. But if you place them in a terran's nat they are invincible
generally, you want to upgrade carapace zvp. A lot of protoss get +1 zealot weapons which do 16+2 + 16 + 2 = 36 which kills a zergling in 2 hits (not good). If you have equal carapace as their weapons, your zerglings will die in 3 hits. The other upgrade, melee weapon attack is more for mid/late game orientated play
you don't want ANY ground upgrades zvz, there is a new zerg trend where zergs get +1 air attack but most zergs don't get any air upgrades and instead opt for just one more muta
tvz - zergs USUALLY get evolution chamber after their spire to increase carapace. Simiarily to v protoss, you don't want your units to get ***** really fast. Then they usually get melee attack because late game zvt, depending on how much gas zerg is allowed to get usually comes down to defiler/lings/ultra or defiler/lings/ lurkers
ranged attack is not popular because most zergs want to save money for upgrades for the units they will be using more late game ( zerglings, ultras) and even if lurkers kill in 3 hits instead of 2 they are still good underneath swarm but most terrans just run away when a swarm pops up. But if you place them in a terran's nat they are invincible
i can't believe it's on sirlin
hahaha.
in all seriousness, learning zerg is all about improving your multitasking and having a loose game progression mapped out in your mind based on what you scout (i.e. if you see two raxes instead of one in the terran base with your ovie prepare for an expo AFTER the terran pressures you with his stronger mnm force instead of an earlier expo).
Always try to figure out whether it's worth it to aggressively pressure the enemy or macro instead, use your lings to check his unit count and protoss sim-city. Map control is also really important, you can aggressively macro/techswitch/whatever more effectively against an opponent kept in the dark.
Vs. protoss, for example, if you make sure to deny scouting after their expo is up and running, you can threaten an all-in hydraling break at the toss natural. Most tosses that don't play safe can be punished by a timing attack unless they teched straight up to storm tech or something unusual like that.
my advice kinda sucks, reading it again...think what you will of it.
hahaha.
in all seriousness, learning zerg is all about improving your multitasking and having a loose game progression mapped out in your mind based on what you scout (i.e. if you see two raxes instead of one in the terran base with your ovie prepare for an expo AFTER the terran pressures you with his stronger mnm force instead of an earlier expo).
Always try to figure out whether it's worth it to aggressively pressure the enemy or macro instead, use your lings to check his unit count and protoss sim-city. Map control is also really important, you can aggressively macro/techswitch/whatever more effectively against an opponent kept in the dark.
Vs. protoss, for example, if you make sure to deny scouting after their expo is up and running, you can threaten an all-in hydraling break at the toss natural. Most tosses that don't play safe can be punished by a timing attack unless they teched straight up to storm tech or something unusual like that.
my advice kinda sucks, reading it again...think what you will of it.
pockyD
Smash Legend
learning how to properly balance zerg unit production // defensive buildings in the early game is the hardest thing to learn in low-level starcraft
Nashun
Smash Ace
Teching up to storm after FE isn't so uncommon if your probe stays alive long enough to see how many gas/how early lair/den or spire.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Klazart is DEAD
Nashun
Smash Ace
Hey play with me.
pockyD
Smash Legend
is he the one that did the commentary for fbh vs savior on python
that guy's voice was atrocious and i muted it about 10 mins in
that guy's voice was atrocious and i muted it about 10 mins in
Nashun
Smash Ace
His voice grows on you cuz the commentary isn't so bad.
ILoveRice
Smash Apprentice
.. i've been watching a little bit of Bisu Vs Jaedong because Jaedong is awesome and i've been learning a little more.. but i think I should read more TL wiki.. and i keep hearing the korean commentary its like HMW but.. except not as awesome and its louder and I don't understand what they are saying...
ILoveRice
Smash Apprentice
anyone wanna play me :o
Nashun
Smash Ace
Me. AIM me at NasuHasano155
D
Deleted member
Guest
if you want to learn good build orders download replays and watch their build order and building placements
try to see how they react to how the opponent plays out his build and stuff
try to see how they react to how the opponent plays out his build and stuff
Nashun
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hZl...55527904&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=56
I thought this was hilarious.
I thought this was hilarious.