any reason to pick over TL?

[SilintNinjya]

in melee, it felt like link and young link were balanced. one was fast, one was strong.

but in this game, it feels like toon link out does link in EVERY way...am i missing something?

 

[Wingless Abaddon]

Link is taller and less cell shady.

Yeah...

I think his bomb is better?

 

[KratosAurion192]

I'm gathering that Link has more of a projectile game than toon Link...

 

[Metzger]

Actually there are a few reasons.

He zones better than TL. His arrows travel much faster and have more knockback, and his sword has larger hitboxes, creating a more powerful spacing game when combined with the other two projectiles. He also has slightly more control over stage influence due to the properties of his boomerang, although that takes quite a bit of practice to learn how to use. He's also a good deal heavier than TL. Oh, and his grab/tether reach is much better and is more useful as a SH spacing tool.

I don't think his advantages over TL outweigh his disadvantages, but he has a few things going for him.

 

[KratosAurion192]

I don't think his advantages over TL outweigh his disadvantages, but he has a few things going for him.

That's kinda what I think,
It's not the same balance like it was with Link and Y.Link, but that balance is still there...

 

[FartKnocker]

One advantage he has is he's not TL.

TL looks like he's about to give someone a big 'ol hug and skip away with them into the sunset.

Link looks like he's all about business as usual; kicking ***, taking numbers, wrecking the bad guys, and using a whole lot of pew pews and stabby stab stabs in the process.

Other people pointed out the important points so I figured I'd cover the obvious

 

[Legan]

One advantage he has is he's not TL.

TL looks like he's about to give someone a big 'ol hug and skip away with them into the sunset.

Link looks like he's all about business as usual; kicking ***, taking numbers, wrecking the bad guys, and using a whole lot of pew pews and stabby stab stabs in the process.

Other people pointed out the important points so I figured I'd cover the obvious

That actually made alot of sense to me. Two thumbs up

 

[Lunar6]

One advantage he has is he's not TL.

TL looks like he's about to give someone a big 'ol hug and skip away with them into the sunset.

Link looks like he's all about business as usual; kicking ***, taking numbers, wrecking the bad guys, and using a whole lot of pew pews and stabby stab stabs in the process.

Other people pointed out the important points so I figured I'd cover the obvious

More like the biased.

 

[Shade Geist]

My only problem with Link is that they basically made his hookshot grab useless. in Melee, the air dodge gave him much more distance, but now that is has been changed, the situations where you can use his hookshot are very limited, making him easy fodder for characters like Marth.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

My only problem with Link is that they basically made his hookshot grab useless. in Melee, the air dodge gave him much more distance, but now that is has been changed, the situations where you can use his hookshot are very limited, making him easy fodder for characters like Marth.

The only reason the hookshot has is to mix Link's recovery, like Skler said.

 

[lorddave551]

only thing that i really made me jealous was toon link's dair spike. I wish they game that ability to link to, would've been his first viable spike ever to my knowledge besides that random down tilt spike thats almost impossible to land.

 

[Hunter_R]

One advantage he has is he's not TL.

TL looks like he's about to give someone a big 'ol hug and skip away with them into the sunset.

Link looks like he's all about business as usual; kicking ***, taking numbers, wrecking the bad guys, and using a whole lot of pew pews and stabby stab stabs in the process.

Other people pointed out the important points so I figured I'd cover the obvious

That's all well and good, but if you played WW, you'd know that Toon Link is such a badass that he

Spoiler

plunged his sword into Ganondorf's head.

 

[R4ZE]

link lost his rediculous up B and i think that is what made link as good as Y.Link in melee.



TL's dair isnt as useful as links anymore. you cant edge gaurd with it. (unless you can slow its downard momentum)

well there is my two cents.

 

[-notic]

link has better projectiles

i once killed a fox at 160 with a bomb right at his foot on pokemon stadium

 

[Aurashade]

I'm gathering that Link has more of a projectile game than toon Link...

this

also

GALE BOOMERANG

EDN

 

[lime_backwards]

I actually prefer Link's F-air and N-air to Toon Link's...

also, doesn't Link's D-air k.o. at lesser percentages than the Toon's?

 

[Lunar6]

TL's Bair is a pretty resourceful move, and I can pull it off fine. Problem is, that's all that I like in terms of how he fits my playstyle. TL's fun to use, and a good change of pace, but his floatiness, shorter range, and projectiles (people can ***** about Link's Gale Boomerang all they want, TL's projectile game is still inferior, be it by a little) make Link my preferred cup of tea as a main. Also, in spite of TL's Dair spike, it's still a less versatile move than Link's. You'll be surprised how easy it is to intercept a descending opponnent with a short-hop Dair by Link (it can KO more than half of the roster, TL included, at under 100% damage).

To Toon Link's credit, he's quite fast, has smash attacks with attractive properties, is only marginally weaker than Link (if not as strong), and his bair is not only easy to combo with, but makes an effective one on its own as well.

While all that doesn't oblige me to main TL over Link, it's still not against what I stand for to say that he'll probably end up doing Links as a whole a great justice to the Smash Bros. series. But to sum up why I'm not maining him: he's just intolerably floaty for me, even in a game that has increased floatiness.

And IMO, TL's recovery is a tad overrated. Yes, it's definately better than Link's, and yes, TL's Up B goes a higher distance, but really, it's not THAT much higher a distance, and it's still solely because of how much smaller TL is than Link, and if it weren't for TLs higher second jump, he'd have just as big a recovery problem as Link (at its worst though). Nonetheless, it is potentially the best Up-B recovery a Link has had so far (not counting thw flashy bomb stuff), especially since TL's tether recovery is more hazardous (and useless) than Link's.

But I still think they should've changed Link's Fair to a Helm Splitter-esque spike. Maybe next game...

 

[Aurashade]

And IMO, TL's recovery is a tad overrated. Yes, it's definately better than Link's, and yes, TL's Up B goes a higher distance, but really, it's not THAT much higher a distance, and it's still solely because of how much smaller TL is than Link, and if it weren't for TLs higher second jump, he'd have just as big a recovery problem as Link (at its worst though). Nonetheless, it is potentially the best recovery a Link has had so far, especially since TL's tether recovery is more hazardous (and useless) than Link's.

Please god just shut up you're making my ears bleed with lies and my eyes are falling out please just shut up already.

 

[lime_backwards]

But I still think they should've changed Link's Fair to a Helm Splitter-esque spike. Maybe next game...

I like his current Fair... it doesn't have horrible knock-back and it hits more than once. Why would you want something completely different when this works? If anything the Helm Splitter could have been a Final Smash,... but I am not going to get into that debate...

 

[Aurashade]

I like his current Fair... it doesn't have horrible knock-back and it hits more than once. Why would you want something completely different when this works? If anything the Helm Splitter could have been a Final Smash,... but I am not going to get into that debate...

exactly. the spinning slash is a godly fair, anyone who differs may suck it dry

 

[Plasmaexe]

Regular Link is higher in weight and can survive longer from damage, you can look at that in a good and bad way since at the same time he's slower than Toon Link. He's got more range on his Smash attacks and standard attacks in general and I know for sure his forward smash is stronger, plus his arrows go faster and further. In a way in terms of knock-back, his down air has better killing potential since Toon Links down air spikes, but is more punishable if missed and easier to avoid than Toon Link.

Toon Link has better combo potential and overall has a better Air Game in all aspects since he jumps higher and can use many b-airs and f-air. I seem to have more trouble dealing with a good Link rather than a good Toon Link though, but I use Kirby and Kirby is rather hard to combo with Toon Links B-air.

 

[Iwan]

exactly. the spinning slash is a godly fair, anyone who differs may suck it dry

lol such an angry person...
Although, i agree with everything you've posted

 

[Deleted member]

I just wish that the second hit in the fair wasnt stronger than the first T_T

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Link's Spin Attack, although nerfed, is still far more useful than Toon Links. Because it actually has range longer than three inches.

At least, I haven't seen anything scary with TL's Spin Attack.

I actually like Link's Dair better than Toon Link's. It, uh, doesn't kill you when you ledgeguard with it and miss? Also, shorthop->dair works better when you don't have to be directly above them when you start the move.

 

[Aurashade]

lol such an angry person...
Although, i agree with everything you've posted

Good, its how life should be.

 

[Lunar6]

Please god just shut up you're making my ears bleed with lies and my eyes are falling out please just shut up already.

Gives me more reason not to shut up, really.

 

[Deleted member]

zomg i found teh aurashade!!!111

 

[KratosAurion192]

And IMO, TL's recovery is a tad overrated.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but when you have a character that can just do his double jump and recover, you have something that deserves praise....

Toon Link is lighter yes, but the air game this kid brought to the brawl with him is something to be reconized. He floats for so long and his bair is a beautiful thing, it being a decent finisher once the percent racks up, which using the bair makes it rather easy to do. And if for whatever reason you were knocked off, you probably don't even have to use the tether or the up-special to get back, and if you do, his up-b goes WAY higher than Link's... and I'm speaking as a person who has mis-judged Link's up-b after being acoustomed to Toon's.

As for his spin attack, while not as good as Link's, the damage is rewarded nicely by a final knockback that keeps you safe while you finish spinning.

but...
Gale Boomerang > Toon Boomerang
Barne's bombs > Toon bombs
Hero's bow > ...Toon... Hero's bow...

Toon Links projectiles arn't bad, but Link's are just so much faster and his bombs are a lot stronger....

 

[Aurashade]

Kratos and I know what we're talking about Lunar6, TL has little spam game compared to Link, because not only does his projectiles have more power+speed to them, but they're just easier to pull out. Now as far as TL's spin goes, the range as far as a basic attack (you'd have to be a complete idiot to use this, however) is much shorter, it has suction (again, if you actually think about it, is quite terrible) and its incredibly weak. But the attribute TL has going for him is his amazing speed (and when played right) and the ability to cover an area in attacks (or movement, for example, he's able to move about a large area while maintaining a safe defense and quick at that. His aerials can be somewhat unpredictable (only because they come out like lighting butter) and he moves fast in the air as well. You can't debate this because I'm saying so, and being that I have more knowledge and credibility around here than most of you debating this worthless topic, you have no argument. This game was designed in an odd way that a lot of characters have been toned down (as far as skill vs. moveset goes) so in a battle of the two more likely the skilled player would win.

Although TL's spam and Link's spam have their differences, either skilled player that deals with that kind of spam can know and predict what will happen (being that they do have extremely similar attributes, you cannot debate this, they are the same weapon/item, speed and damage aren't an issue here).

Having said this, it all comes down to skill, which most debates eventually do.

*whew, a non-troll post, you losers better learn from this*

 

[Deleted member]

TL is the new marth

Kizzu combo is the new ken combo

 

[Lunar6]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but when you have a character that can just do his double jump and recover, you have something that deserves praise....

Toon Link is lighter yes, but the air game this kid brought to the brawl with him is something to be reconized. He floats for so long and his bair is a beautiful thing, it being a decent finisher once the percent racks up, which using the bair makes it rather easy to do. And if for whatever reason you were knocked off, you probably don't even have to use the tether or the up-special to get back, and if you do, his up-b goes WAY higher than Link's... and I'm speaking as a person who has mis-judged Link's up-b after being acoustomed to Toon's.

As for his spin attack, while not as good as Link's, the damage is rewarded nicely by a final knockback that keeps you safe while you finish spinning.

but...
Gale Boomerang > Toon Boomerang
Barne's bombs > Toon bombs
Hero's bow > ...Toon... Hero's bow...

Toon Links projectiles arn't bad, but Link's are just so much faster and his bombs are a lot stronger....

Well, in order of what you said. Here's my response:

I know where youre coming from when you talk of TL's second jump, but if it was really something that I viewed as comparable to the likes of any character that just has so much as multiple jumps, I wouldn't be speaking of this. When I was talking about TL's recovery being overrated, I meant more or less about the Up-B recovery on its own without jumps. But even with TL's inhumanly high second jump, the fact that he's so floaty and falls so slowly just makes it easy for me to intercept him in midair despite being one of the game's smaller, faster targets. Coupled with his light weight, there weren't many times when he came back a second time.

The bair I can agree with. THAT'S something, in my opinion, that deserves praise beyond what he's getting for his recovery game. It alone gives him probably one of the best air-games in the game. But his floatiness, though good for his bair, is not so good when the enemy also has a good air game (and occasionally edgeguarding).

I don't really have much of a comment on the ground spin attack for TL. It's not something I use quite as often for Link anymore, so it's not something I've felt the need to use as TL since it's already got a shorter attack range which alone hinders it.

As for TL's projectiles, I weren't trying to say they were bad overall, just that some people are making it as if a Boomerang that doesn't damage someone 100% of the time outweighs projectiles that fly so slowly, that you'd have to be pretty blind to get hit by them at a far distance. Not to say that they suck period, being the same as Link's by a basic view point, they're still pretty versatile which adds to his basic metagame, but the fact that they fly as slowly as they do makes it so that they basically are best suited to be used in a playstyle that involves closer encounters. Not to say that this is a bad thing since as I said before, TL's moves are pretty speedy, quite powerful for a character his size (and in general, really), and if anything, advantageous to the point that his projectiles are, in some match-ups, unnecessary.

I'm not trying to pass off saying TL is overrated as a whole. Like I said, he's probably the best Link in the Smash Bros. series. I'm just saying that his cons, though mostly outweighed by his pros, are NOT overshadowed by them, no one's are.

Call it all personal experiences, but in my defense, it was far from a crash-course one.

And continuing my response, as for your "non-troll post", Aurashade, I'll say that I respect and appreciate you giving me a serious response in my own little time of troll-post.

 

[KratosAurion192]

Well, in order of what you said. Here's my response:

I know where youre coming from when you talk of TL's second jump, but if it was really something that I viewed as comparable to the likes of any character that just has so much as multiple jumps, I wouldn't be speaking of this. When I was talking about TL's recovery being overrated, I meant more or less about the Up-B recovery on its own without jumps. But even with TL's inhumanly high second jump, the fact that he's so floaty and falls so slowly just makes it easy for me to intercept him in midair despite being one of the game's smaller, faster targets. Coupled with his light weight, there weren't many times when he came back a second time.

The bair I can agree with. THAT'S something, in my opinion, that deserves praise beyond what he's getting for his recovery game. It alone gives him probably one of the best air-games in the game. But his floatiness, though good for his bair, is not so good when the enemy also has a good air game (and occasionally edgeguarding).

I don't really have much of a comment on the ground spin attack for TL. It's not something I use quite as often for Link anymore, so it's not something I've felt the need to use as TL since it's already got a shorter attack range which alone hinders it.

As for TL's projectiles, I weren't trying to say they were bad overall, just that some people are making it as if a Boomerang that doesn't damage someone 100% of the time outweighs projectiles that fly so slowly, that you'd have to be pretty blind to get hit by them at a far distance. Not to say that they suck period, being the same as Link's by a basic view point, they're still pretty versatile which adds to his basic metagame, but the fact that they fly as slowly as they do makes it so that they basically are best suited to be used in a playstyle that involves closer encounters. Not to say that this is a bad thing since as I said before, TL's moves are pretty speedy, quite powerful for a character his size (and in general, really), and if anything, advantageous to the point that his projectiles are, in some match-ups, unnecessary.

I'm not trying to pass off saying TL is overrated as a whole. Like I said, he's probably the best Link in the Smash Bros. series. I'm just saying that his cons, though mostly outweighed by his pros, are NOT overshadowed by them, no one's are.

Call it all personal experiences, but in my defense, it was far from a crash-course one.

And continuing my response, as for your "non-troll post", Aurashade, I'll say that I respect and appreciate you giving me a serious response in my own little time of troll-post.

I've always found ways around being intercepted, Probably the favorite thing to do, I know it's bad but I play n00bs, is to fast fall at the last second with an air dodge in it than up-b asap. I might try uair instead...

I usually only play against Olimar, another link, ike, fox and flaco anyway.... so air games arn't much of a problem here...

My opinion with TL's Spin is this: it is a perfectly safe attack when they are at a decent percent, since the knockback will keep you safe. It's a fun little ***** slap in the face and is decent uncharged. Only use it when you're screwing around really :D otherwise you should be trying to set up for bairs...

they both have good projectile games, I just kinda perfer TL's air games this time around I guess...


And remember this thread, lightshade is discussing and not bashing...

 

[NJzFinest]

Losing on purpose seems to be the best reason.

 

[Aurashade]

And continuing my response, as for your "non-troll post", Aurashade, I'll say that I respect and appreciate you giving me a serious response in my own little time of troll-post.

Well whatever, just learn that I do have more experience than most other Link players here (save like, kratos, skler, maybe deva maybe but those are the solid ones that come to mind) and you really can learn a ton just from that one post. The thing is, is the simple fact that Tlink and Link are very alike, so you really can't debate which "is better," or "takes more skill."

 

[shadyf0o]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but regular link's down b can kill when someone is at or over 100 percent. TL's can't, unless its a spike of course.

 

[brentlouis]

Toon Link is faster and has stronger smash attaks, Link has more range and I think his bomb radius is smaller

 

[KratosAurion192]

Toon Link is faster and has stronger smash attaks, Link has more range and I think his bomb radius is smaller

Almost...

Even with his speed boost he is still to slow for a decent close range game, where as TL is quick enough to at least keep up and spam his ariels.

Link has to play from afar and make his openings with his projectiles, where as TL's main projectile is his bombs.

It's really a matter of prefference, do you want to camp or do you want to RAR more?

 

[henrytran]

I mained link in all 3 Smashes (Link + Pit in Brawl), and so I always try my best to find what really shines about Link's. Though having playing hundreds of matches witih Link now, and watching and playing against TLs, it feels that TL has more going for him. Link has changed significantly and the way you play him is vastly different than in Melee, but he still "feels" the same. TL feels like a blend of Jiggs due to his superior air game, and Young Link from Melee due to his speediness on the ground. I think it has often been debated that YL had a better projectile game than Melee-Link, and to balance off the new almost-godliness of Toon Link, his projectiles were ever so slightly gimped (but still very good).

Why do I still stick witih Link over YL? It all really comes down to style preference. For me personally, Link has the feel of raw power and tacticfulness (word? lol) in his game. TL has a feel of juggly domination mixed in with speed. But TL feels more like Pit to me than he does like a Link, and I enjoy playing Pit.

For other people deciding Link or Toon Link, I'd say this: Is it more satisfying to Link down-air someone at 90-110% to get a kill, or to juggle someone off the stage with Toon Link with his air game? Whichever you pick is the Link you should stick with. Regardless with the engine that Brawl has, you shuold be afraid of either player.

 

[HydroStorm]

I play as Toon Link more than regular Link because TLink has the NES colors. If it weren't for that i wouldn't touch him