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Anyone else get upset when...

goodoldganon

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
2,946
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
You tell someone you play as DK and they laugh at you?
-or-
You a large portion of people here at Smashboards tell you DK is garbage still, yet they haven't played a good DK?

It frustrates me to no end. I wish people could be more open minded about everyone character. But sadly people refuse to see what is right in front of them. I guess it is all ok when I end up actually facing the naysayer and owning their face.
 

surrepGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
65
Location
Georgia
Unfortunately it seems like most people still believe that a slow character is not a good character. Yet there continue to be surprisingly good players that own people in the face with bowser, ganon, and DK. I'm not any good with these types of characters by any means, but I'm sure you agree its fun using them due to the whole underdog thing where people disregard you and then get destroyed :chuckle:
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
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Messages
9,632
I'm just sick of people saying marth counters everyone. I believe that vs. dk it is at least even
 

Icetrash

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
427
Not really.

If you think about it, its a win-win situation. If you win just laugh in their face that you beat them using DK, which they think is crap, or if you lose just blame it on DK by saying "Ohh yeh DK really does suck, aye".

I think its great!
 

itsaxelol

Smash Ace
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
654
whaaat tc are you insaneeeeeee

this is the best part about dk

tell me, that when you beat someone, and they complain about being beat by dk, its not one of THE BEST feelings in the world
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
NYC
Unfortunately it seems like most people still believe that a slow character is not a good character.
Um, DDD?



Anyways, for those who worry about this, there's no need. Highly xperienced and simply well known players who are given access to the smashbackroom are mostly aware of how deadly DK is. They see him as a very capable competitive tournament characters. No need to take the opinions of "those who don't matter". Hope I don't sound to harsh saying that :p
 

robosteven

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
1,181
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MA
NNID
robosteven
Does Ness own DK?

I play as Ness and was fighting against this DK guy who owned me. There's a good DK player for ya.
 

itsthebigfoot

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
1,949
Location
ventura county CA
simna found the chain grab that ruined ness's chances

i don't agree with the first part, I've won 10 bucks off of money matches (DC beat me though T.T)

the second part I hate because it gives dk a negative stigma, and yes, dk > ness, i have only lost to ness online, and played one of thebest ness's in socal, and will hopefully play simna next weekend
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Simna wasn't the one who found it out, he's just one of the people who helped make it known, as well as Vidjo, Mew2King, and Cort.

Also, Simna wouldn't mind me telling him Ness sucks :p From what it seems, he doesn't even enjoy playing Brawl Ness due to his changes from Melee.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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A2ZOMG
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DK isn't bad. He just isn't all that good...

His air game is pretty lousy except for two attacks (the U-air and B-air). His ground game, while has good range and power, is fairly laggy. His recovery still isn't that good either.
 

Tristan Fattest of All Kids

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
342
FYI: DK is not good. I am sorry, but Brawl DK got nerfed more than Fox. (hyperbole, gosh) Anyway, DK used to be better than Bowser. Now look at him.
Don't yell at me. Blame Sakurai...
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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FYI: DK is not good. I am sorry, but Brawl DK got nerfed more than Fox. (hyperbole, gosh) Anyway, DK used to be better than Bowser. Now look at him.
Don't yell at me. Blame Sakurai...

so according to your logic, if a character gets better, all the characters that used to be better than him get worse? how dumb that statement was makes me laugh at your face
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
8,861
Location
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FYI: DK is not good. I am sorry, but Brawl DK got nerfed more than Fox. (hyperbole, gosh) Anyway, DK used to be better than Bowser. Now look at him.
Don't yell at me. Blame Sakurai...
$20 money match?

My DK/Fox vs your anything
 

mr_kennedy44

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
452
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Inside a cardboard box
FYI: DK is not good. I am sorry, but Brawl DK got nerfed more than Fox. (hyperbole, gosh) Anyway, DK used to be better than Bowser. Now look at him.
Don't yell at me. Blame Sakurai...
Uh DK got incredible buffs and few nerfs. (The nerfs weren't even that horrible) DK is great in brawl.

Oh ya I'm a new DK mainer (I discovered his amazing d-tilt). So hi DK boards I hope I can help contribute to the advance of DK's metagame.
 

redgreenblue

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
609
Location
Slightly north of Toronto, Canada
DK is HEAVILY buffed in Brawl. I couldn't stand using him in Melee, but he's my secondary in brawl. Just like... everything about him is good. He has an above-average running speed, all his moves are powerful and have insane reach, his grab range is only exceeded by a few (eg. dedede), his aerials are all useful and most have almost no lag before or after the move, he is one of the heaviest characters in the game (if not the heaviest), his side+b is now incredibly useful, etc. He is just godly now. Of course he can get combo'd by a dedede to hell, but then just don't get caught in the chaingrab. His lack of projectiles really does not matter.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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A2ZOMG
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DK is HEAVILY buffed in Brawl.
Wrong lol. He's better, but not by that much.

He has an above-average running speed,
He always did. Bleh...

all his moves are powerful and have insane reach,
Less range than they had in Melee...actually. He's very strong though, I'll give you that. That's one of the main reasons he's decent.

his grab range is only exceeded by a few (eg. dedede),
Well true, but you can't Cargo U-throw to U-air very well anymore.

his aerials are all useful and most have almost no lag before or after the move
This couldn't be more wrong. He only has two aerials that are actually good. The U-air, and the B-air. The others are situational because they lag horribly

his side+b is now incredibly useful, etc.
His Side B is pretty much just as hard to land in Brawl as it was in Melee. It's more useful granted, but not by that much when it's still really slow and easy to react to.

His lack of projectiles really does not matter.
Lol in a game where camping and playing defensively is everything.

Honestly I think you've got it wrong. I'm not gonna disagree that DK is better in Brawl, but it's not by that huge of an amount, and not nearly to the extent you praise him for.
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
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I love how people think DK was bad in Melee.

There was a total of 2 active/competitive/known tournament DK players (Bum and Mexican).

Both did very well in regional and national tournaments going only DK. The problem is that DK was so unpopular in Melee and no one bothered making a new tier list. Chillindude tried making his own for 07-08 and he placed DonkeyKong in High Tier.

I actually think DK is worse in Brawl then Melee. It's just that, he's WAY easier to use now and the highest of Top Tier characters don't **** him as hard as they did back in Melee. Since, he's way more noob friendly, more people picking him up now.

Yes, people have to stop saying DK sucks in Brawl, but you can't trash his Melee counterpart.


edit:

A2ZOMG is the truth
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
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Omg, can people stop saying he's alot better? Especially if your join date is 2008.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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A2ZOMG
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I love how people think DK was bad in Melee.

There was a total of 2 active/competitive/known tournament DK players (Bum and Mexican).

Both did very well in regional and national tournaments going only DK. The problem is that DK was so unpopular in Melee and no one bothered making a new tier list. Chillindude tried making his own for 07-08 and he placed DonkeyKong in High Tier.

I actually think DK is worse in Brawl then Melee. It's just that, he's WAY easier to use now and the highest of Top Tier characters don't **** him as hard as they did back in Melee. Since, he's way more noob friendly, more people picking him up now.

Yes, people have to stop saying DK sucks in Brawl, but you can't trash his Melee counterpart.
Oh, I guess you have a good point.

But err...his defense and recovery was terrible in Melee. <<

Dang, yeah. I guess DK is worse in Brawl lol. I'm not saying he's bad though, but honestly he really can't compare to awesome **** like Snake, Metaknight, and G&W.
 

orintemple

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
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Chicago, IL
DK isn't that terrible, he has some great things going for him. But he lacks the ultimate factor in Brawl, a good projectile. Characters with good projectiles are generally the best.(Save for G&W who is a phenomenon. Marth doesn't need one cause he can approach with fairs that blow all projectiles away and MK IS a projectile).

In any case, projectiles are godly, and DK doesn't have one, nor does he have the speed to make up for it like Marth or MK.

Either way I still believe DK could be low mid tier when that day comes, which isn't that bad considering how many near trash characters there are.
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
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-DK is definitely High/top Mid Tier in Brawl

-DK's defense is better in Brawl but his recovery was better in Melee (when you do his up b recovery, stop short a little bit near to the edge, DK's will still be able to grab it, somewhat like auto sweetspotting in Brawl. Marth's Fsmash will never hit him. The fact that he can do this and others can't makes it stands out, whereas in Brawl, there's nothing like this that stands out).

-Projectiles aren't everything, or else MKnight and G&W wouldn't be so godly.
 

Ripple

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I'm gonna have to disagree about the recovery being better in melee, even though he could semi sweet spot, his recovery was very predictable and very punishable. everything else I agree about except that nair is not useless, it auto cancels if you don't fast fall it.
 

orintemple

Smash Lord
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-DK is definitely High/top Mid Tier in Brawl

-DK's defense is better in Brawl but his recovery was better in Melee (when you do his up b recovery, stop short a little bit near to the edge, DK's will still be able to grab it, somewhat like auto sweetspotting in Brawl. Marth's Fsmash will never hit him. The fact that he can do this and others can't makes it stands out, whereas in Brawl, there's nothing like this that stands out).

-Projectiles aren't everything, or else MKnight and G&W wouldn't be so godly.
Well like I said, ridiculous speed makes up for lack of projectiles, and G&W is... I just don't get how he works. Projectiles aren't everything, but they are hell of a lot of something. Either way, I have just started experimenting with DK, so hopefully what you say will prove itself to me in my gameplay. If DK could be high tier that would be great, as I am growing to like him a lot.
 

Neo M.J

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
159
DK is good, but he lacks anything that makes him stand out, as hes merely an ape that wears a tie, no sword, magical power, or anything that makes the character seem fancy,still gotta love him:chuckle:!
 

Blistering Speed

Smash Champion
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Dot Dot Dash Dot
Gotta love NJ, representing DK in the backroom XD, though the 08 elitism was unneeded, I've lurked here since 06.

DK will be high tier in Brawl because Brawl revolves around matchups and DK shuts down some of the cast. The jab, B Air, and his tilts basically mean some characters can't hit him. I played a good Sonic abit ago with DK, I wrecked him.
 

Icetrash

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
427
I agree with NJ, I think DK was better in Melee with his juggling game. God I love that.
 

jalued

Smash Lord
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somewhere cold and dreary
lol, DK is a tank now, sure he can't do what he used to do in melee (up air combo, then big punch), but he can do so much more now. DK has one of the best edge guarding in the game, and sure his vertical recovery sucks, but his horizontal makes up for it, so just don't go too low lol. DK for KING!!!!!
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
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Messages
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He can do so much more now???

Like what?

You only mentioned his edge guarding...bu his edge guarding was better in Melee. His up b edgeguard had more knockback and was easier to land. Also, people can't air dodge 100 times and they actually die when you hit them back in Melee.
 

Nicktendo

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
946
Location
San Diego, CA
What I like now in Brawl is his tilts are super good they kinda sucked in melee. His smashes are way better to.

I miss the upair juggle, range of giant punch and the starting knockback of up b.

His recovery I think is better. it does have super armor in the begining dosent it. I do hate the landing lag from it though unless your hovering right above the ground, that wasnt in melee
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
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What I like now in Brawl is his tilts are super good they kinda sucked in melee. His smashes are way better to.
It's tilts did not suck in Melee...there were still good for spacing back then.
His recovery I think is better. it does have super armor in the begining dosent it. I do hate the landing lag from it though unless your hovering right above the ground, that wasnt in melee
In Melee, his up B had invincibly frames with it's strong knockback... which>super armor.


I'm pretty sure most of the people who use DK in Brawl or at least think he's much better in Brawl didn't use him in Melee or at least not competitively.
 

FreakingMethodiC

Smash Journeyman
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Jun 25, 2007
Messages
476
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East Meadow, New York
It's tilts did not suck in Melee...there were still good for spacing back then.

In Melee, his up B had invincibly frames with it's strong knockback... which>super armor.


I'm pretty sure most of the people who use DK in Brawl or at least think he's much better in Brawl didn't use him in Melee or at least not competitively.
I agree, U-B in melee was nasty PoS most of donkeys' kills in tourney's vs high tiers came frim his Oos Up-B b/c of it's Knock back.

I would trade brawls DK would be more like melee if it wasn't for the physics in brawl which stops him from doing his U-air combos out of a throw.

And ya don't harp on peoples join dates... mine is recent also but i gave my other account away to a freind b/c it's name was RidleyX and hes a huge Metriod fan. Some of us have been here since the start of melee days but never said anything.
 

itsthebigfoot

Smash Lord
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Messages
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ventura county CA
here's what he has in brawl that he didn't have in melee

1. smashes - given, you could work in a fsmash to fake people out in melee, and usmash wasn't horrible, but donkey kongs new smashes ****. usmash destroys the light guys, especially if platforms are included, they die in the late 50's or early 60's. fsmash, when spaced properly, is one of the best moves in the game, its reach is longer than most people's rolls, so if they see it coming and roll, you get to charge it and punish, on top of this, it can hit people who stay on the ledge too long, and eats the roll off the edge, the jump off the edge, and most of the attacks off the edge if you time it right. and the dsmash is nearly broken, as mikehaze put it "all you have to do is dsmash and roll" it can do everything, it's basically the fsmash for people closer than you'd like

2. the third best approach in the game - warios air control, bike, superarmor and priority take first by a long shot, and marth's sideb and double fair give him some great options, but dk's super armor and double bair give him one of the best approaches in the game (you could argue metaknights is better than dk, however, metaknight's can be predictable) and make it nearly impossible to camp dk, which was one of his downsides in melee

3. he too can "airdodge 100 times" - dk got combo'd hard in melee, and with brawls physic/mechanics, thats gone, you can just airdodge back to the ground.

4. he's one of the few who can punixh effectively in this game - in melee, anyone could punish a mistake, in brawl, certain characters can do it much easier than others, and dk is one of those select few. if your opponent likes to roll, dsmash and fsmash fix that quick, if the other play wants to spam mach tornado or the turtle, or whatever high priority, quick move his character has, the bpunch will stop that, if he airdodges your uair when you try to keep him in the air, you canfastfalland either bair him, or nair him, depending on his movement, both will knock him off the ledge.

5. new edge guarding - upb still works, and can now be auto canceled on the ledge, also, you can jump out and spike much easier, and bair ***** off the edge, nair works too depending on the character. and if you miss upb kills, bair to upb kills, you just gotta chase them off. edgeguarding/gimping has moved from holding the ledge and smacking them when they get near to jumping waayyy out and hitting them with a good attack or two,which dk can do with his huge horizontal recovery

6. usable downb/sideb - self explanitory

here's what he is presumably missing

1. juggling with uair - utilt under a platform works for most characters, utilt in general works for fastfallers and/or people with laggy start up time on aerials like samus or ness, if they airdodge,you can get off another utilt before they hit the ground

2. bpunch range - it now has super armor instead, and fsmash has more range than the punch did in melee

3. upb edge guarding - its preference really, i can edge guard better, given, my melee dk was not remarkable, but there weren't many good dks in socal so i can't really compare it

4. good match ups against the two best character - now he has good matchups with 3 out of the 4 best character (4 out of 5 if you count wolf up there) with wario being the only one that really gives dk problems, but wario gives everyone problems

5. chaingrabs - most people are missing this, he does have very good throws compared to the rest of the cast in brawl
 

NJzFinest

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Messages
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2. the third best approach in the game - warios air control, bike, superarmor and priority take first by a long shot, and marth's sideb and double fair give him some great options, but dk's super armor and double bair give him one of the best approaches in the game (you could argue metaknights is better than dk, however, metaknight's can be predictable) and make it nearly impossible to camp dk, which was one of his downsides in melee
That's absolutely wrong.
First of, superarmor has nothing to do with out good a character's approach is. Game and Watch has one of the best approaches and I don't see any super armor in any of his moves. People don't (or at least shouldn't) approach with Warios Fsmash (they usually shield drop into it or SH Dair to Fsmash), Ike's B/Up B, Olimar's Down B, and so forth. Only thing I can really think of is DK running up and Giant Punching, which was more effective in Melee because of it's range. I doubt people actually use Giant Punch as a approaching method in either game though. Double Bair is nice and all but any character can shield drop into almost any move granted his second Bair is decent lag. Even Marth's Double Fair isn't that great. Bair doesn't even have that much range, I find F-tilt and D-tilt to be much better in many situations (surprised you didn't even mention those). If DK's approach was as good as you say, he wouldn't get destroyed by spam and easily one of the best characters (since having a good approach is much more important now). He's to fat and slow to be the 3rd best in anything of the sort.
3. he too can "airdodge 100 times" - dk got combo'd hard in melee, and with brawls physic/mechanics, thats gone, you can just airdodge back to the ground.
Many characters got combo hard in Melee, especially top tiers...
4. he's one of the few who can punixh effectively in this game - in melee, anyone could punish a mistake, in brawl, certain characters can do it much easier than others, and dk is one of those select few. if your opponent likes to roll, dsmash and fsmash fix that quick, if the other play wants to spam mach tornado or the turtle, or whatever high priority, quick move his character has, the bpunch will stop that, if he airdodges your uair when you try to keep him in the air, you canfastfalland either bair him, or nair him, depending on his movement, both will knock him off the ledge.
In Melee, yes, everyone can punish a mistake, some where far superior at punishing at others. DK had a huge combo game from a grab in Melee, and getting in a grab was his basically his way of punishing. It's nice to punish someone in Brawl with a Dsmash such as DK which can kill and all, but what about at low percents? Using it would just diminish the move's strength. The Melee counterpart of punishing at low percents would be a combo into high damage or death. A punish at high percents would still as be death.
5. new edge guarding - upb still works, and can now be auto canceled on the ledge, also, you can jump out and spike much easier, and bair ***** off the edge, nair works too depending on the character. and if you miss upb kills, bair to upb kills, you just gotta chase them off. edgeguarding/gimping has moved from holding the ledge and smacking them when they get near to jumping waayyy out and hitting them with a good attack or two,which dk can do with his huge horizontal recovery
Bair and Up B kills were far more effective in Melee. They actually died when you hit them, they had much less time to react, and they couldn't air dodge a bunch of times.
6. usable downb/sideb - self explanitory
Yes, these moves are definitely better, but they were still usable in Melee as well, just didn't have as much range. If you take a look at Bum's DK though, you can see how effective it is.




-------------------


For the record, Wario and Wolf are good characters, but definitely not top 5, maybe not even top 10.
Metaknight, Snake, Falco, Rob, GW, Pit, DDD, Toon, Fox, and Luigi are all better (that order is mostly based of what I've seen in that backroom). It's also pretty popular to see Donkey Kong being placed higher then Wario.
 

itsthebigfoot

Smash Lord
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ventura county CA
For the record, Wario and Wolf are good characters, but definitely not top 5, maybe not even top 10.
Metaknight, Snake, Falco, Rob, GW, Pit, DDD, Toon, Fox, and Luigi are all better (that order is mostly based of what I've seen in that backroom). It's also pretty popular to see Donkey Kong being placed higher then Wario.
i can't speak for wolf, but wario has officially taken over socal, both futile and plan 9 have been dominating with him, and we're starting to see a few more warios pop up around here. dsf's massive win streak was ended by futiles wario, and the only character that has consistently given wario problems is dedede. expect to see a lot more of wario, because his priority and approach are insane, and if the player is smart enough to go with the 1:00 waft over the full charge, they will kill everyone at about 40% every minute or so

and i have not had spam problems offline, i seem to be able to get around it pretty easy with dk. onlines a different story, but offline i have yet to be camped/spammed effectively

I doubt even Bum could’ve found a use for the headbutt in Melee …
it saw some use off the edge, but onstage it was pretty useless, unless you wanted to mock your opponent
 
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