Apex 2013 - Pools up in OP! - Only at the door for FGC!

[LOE1]

guys, how about we let this tourney run how the hosts want to run it. then we all can see if this was a good idea or not so the necassary changes can be made to the next apex. enough arguein :|

 

[W.C.N]

I'm against the complaining because it dehypes the thread

Also pidge ill mm you for that hat

 

[Tesh]

guys, how about we let this tourney run how the hosts want to run it. then we all can see if this was a good idea or not so the necassary changes can be made to the next apex. enough arguein :|

Yea, but I wanna say it beforehand so if things go badly I can say "see i told you this would happen".

 

[Alex Strife]

nothing will dehype the thread. People are going to have a great time newcomers and old school alike.

We announced our format months ago and tested it at some majors and people enjoy it when they eventually do it. People are slow to change.

 

[Shaky]

So is the doubles bracket going to be posted before Friday?

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Is there any possible way that you can use all of Venue fee payment, and Singles entry and give them to Reflex? Can you place Reflex in Apex Pools?

I cannot make Apex anymore, but I will gladly give all my resources to Reflex.

Apex is a once in a lifetime event for many people. It will become a lifetime memory for many smashers, and Reflex will make this event even more hype! Reflex is "King of the South" and surely an amazing representation of the South's brawl scene. Please, Please, Please let this man be apart of Apex.

I hear that you are changing Brawl's pools due to various reasons, and I don't see any reason why you can't add him, take me off, switch players, whatever. What reason would there by for not adding him? He's already payed for through my entry fee, and why not add someone with amazing talent in an International tournament that is supposed to test the best of the best? ...Apex is supposed to be the test of the best right? I mean people from Japan, Europe, Chile, and Australia are coming to this event. I'm sure they've collectively spent thousands of dollars to come play the world's best. I don't know what more that I can say, but to add this man to Apex 2013's pool.

 

[Kite91]

Strife i cant wait for this. Im so hype to come and compete. nervous bout pools and such. Cant wait to meet you and others. I don't even play brawl and said screw it and signed up

 

[Alex Strife]

all changes go to teh TOs NOT ME stop asking me and ask the tos

FullMetal/Maria - Melee
RJ/Keitaro - Brawl

Their word is FINAL

 

[xDD-Master]

so what i am getting is no friendlies hm?

Well, I think people would prefer playing 2-3 Hours of pools, instead of 30 Minutes. They still get to play enough friendlies after the pools.

And its not like you can immediatelly use all the TVs for friendlies when youre out of bracket pools. You said there are 80 TVs for Brawl IIRC? Therefore until LSF/WFs most TVs will still be used for Bracket Pools anyway, and people can only watch the remaining matches while already being out

As I said, you may just do a poll for the next apex, if people prefer Bracket Pools Bo3 or RR Bo1, as I think, both are legit options ^^

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

all changes go to teh TOs NOT ME stop asking me and ask the tos

FullMetal/Maria - Melee
RJ/Keitaro - Brawl

Their word is FINAL

I've already asked Keitaro, and he said that the others were against it at the time. I don't know who, but I'm assuming the Apex staff? Maybe they have the power that he should have? I don't know, but Alex can you please look into this?

 

[Alex Strife]

all i heard last year was more friendlies.

Wait...I already explained all of this.

Sorry but no more tolerance out of me cause people will have fun and enjoy. We told people all of this in advance...months ago.

Glad - they can only replace people with the proper seed. But talk to him. IF he cannot then he cannot. We cannot give everyone everything sadly.

 

[Luco]

Out of curiosity, what's the situation with streaming? If it's in the OP i'm happy to go and look, just wondering whether pools get streamed, whatever else happens... i'm from a really small scene so we don't really stream our events and don't get all matches recorded.

 

[JTsm]

Out of curiosity, what's the situation with streaming? If it's in the OP i'm happy to go and look, just wondering whether pools get streamed, whatever else happens... i'm from a really small scene so we don't really stream our events and don't get all matches recorded.

The schedule should tell you what's happening on stream.

 

[Kite91]

So is the doubles bracket going to be posted before Friday?

this^^^

 

[Alex Strife]

We will be streaming some major matches we will have in pools. It's all on the site what streams what.

 

[AllyKnight]

lordy o lord so much **** happened geez LOL.

I wish Reflex would be able to enter though ;( just give him the seeding that keitaro gave to star

 

[xDD-Master]

all i heard last year was more friendlies.

Wait...I already explained all of this.

Sorry but no more tolerance out of me cause people will have fun and enjoy. We told people all of this in advance...months ago.

I'm totally fine with it anyway, I just want to show an alternative, about which you may think for future APEXs as its too late now anyway ^^

As I said, maybe a poll + discussion thread would be the best. I'm sure people will enjoy nevertheless and will have a great time. For example, I'm one of the people who enjoy watching matches a lot, just as much as playing, even though I'm not able to attend APEX13 anyway. But if I was there, I sure would have a great time, no matter how far I could've gotten.

 

[Alex Strife]

Polls do not work cause people do not take into account all the factors. For example, in a perfect world I'd do RR but I do not have the space or the setups for the amount I'd NEED ( 96 each ) to make it run without doing other events.

RIP Chibo

 

[Tesh]

We will be streaming some major matches we will have in pools. It's all on the site what streams what.

What I was asking is, will you perhaps give the community a shot at suggesting what goes up on stream? Like a quick poll based on which sets are available in the coming minutes. I've actually seen this done on Japanese streams (not even being sarcastic) where 4 options pop up and it shows you what percentage of viewers voted for each set and they put the favorite set up next.

If that exact thing isnt possible on your stream site, maybe you could just make a thread where people can point out which possible sets they are most excited to see. I'm stressing this point because last Apex there was a VERY boring pool put on stream and the only thing we got to take away from it was Pierce being a douche on stream.

 

[Bones0]

@ bones and habefiet

Evo destroys your logic they grow every year to where last year they had to cap their events and put spectators in different rooms for capacity reasons, $15 to only play 2 matches of you don't win sounds exactly like a high level tournament and that's what this is.

And the logic of get better is not stupid because that's what all the people who are beating you did and they had to work at it just like you should, you cater to people who put in work not people who just complain a lot

Just because Evo can rip off its new players and still grow doesn't mean the Smash community can. Maybe you haven't realized, but Evo is a bit larger than the average Melee national. When we start selling out arenas because casuals are entering in drones, then we can discuss raising the price a little to keep the competition alive. Until that point, making the tournament so ridiculously expensive per set for less skilled players does nothing but hurt the community.

I actually expect to get my money's worth because I have a legitimate shot at making it out of my pool, or at least getting a decent number of sets before I get knocked out. Others are not so fortunate, either because they are simply bad at video games, don't have time to put into getting good, just want to enter for fun, or are so new to the game that they can't be expected to do well. For all of those people, there are literally NO incentives to enter the tournament. They can get the awesome, thrill factor just by MMing random people. It's not only cheaper, but like I said before, if they find some people around their skill level, they may actually win some money or at least have fun because the matches are close.

Bones0 with the real talk.

Edit: Although I agree with Bones0, I understand where the tournament organizers are coming from. Finishing the tournament in a timely fashion is more important than giving less skilled players more matches, I just wish there was a way for both to happen.

I absolutely understand from a TOing perspective that you have to make sacrifices to finish on time. I do however think that lesser skilled players should be the last ones to feel quality cuts for the sake of time. I also have a hard time believing there is no way to give everyone at least 4 sets and still finish on time. Tournaments have had more than 300 entrants and still finished on time. Like someone else suggested, if the other games are making it too difficult to finish on time, maybe 10 games is too much. Alternatively, you could approach the situation from the financial end. You could give out partial entry refunds to players who ended up getting a piss poor seeding and subsequently get knocked out after two sets. That way if they get short changed on matches, at least they don't feel like they spent $30 extra for no reason.

Sadly there really isnt with the demands for friendlies/tournament matches there is not really a feasible way with the sheer AMOUNT of people.

What I do not understand is that why people do not just play friendlies which IMO will be a huge thing this year.

People will play friendlies of course, but many players eager to improve or prove something to themselves end up getting *****slapped by the awful cash to set count ratio. Of course the Smash community is awesome so people enter anyway (I've heard more than a few players admit that they only enter because they want to support Melee and see it grow). What's further confusing to me is how there is time for friendlies, but not for tournament sets. Clearly there is not a shortage of time, but rather there is a shortage of time to accomplish a bracket where matches depend on previous matches. This dilemma can be solved in a myriad of ways, including amateur brackets or some other form of playing out for your placing. If we had a standard 48 or 64-man bracket, they would not be using up all of the setups, which means the rest of the setups could be delegated to amateur brackets. This not only gives those lesser skilled players more sets, but gives them higher quality sets because they are playing opponents of closer skill level. The only people who would possibly oppose this type of event are those who aren't entering because it would take up friendly stations. Thus, you will get more entrants because people will not only be getting more sets for their money, but they will be guaranteed to have play time when people who opted out of entering will be doing what they payed for: spectating.

Then they should play a lot of matches here, they won't be tourney because they didn't practice enough before coming, there's still tons of time for friendlies, and those people who don't have enough time for the game before the tourney shouldn't get special privilege over those who did

Your perspective is ironic because as it is right now, the more skilled players are the ones receiving the special privilege. In an ideal world, we would do a full round robin where everyone plays everyone. Because that is not feasible, we sacrifice some of the matches amongst lower level players so that the tournament can actually finish. Just because we have to boot lesser skilled players out of the tournament earlier than the top players who make it to the end doesn't mean we have to shaft them as hard as possible.

Also, like I mentioned above, you are assuming everyone wants to play to be the best or has the time/resources to do it. Maybe someone lives in the middle of nowhere and can't possibly practice with anyone. Does that mean they shouldn't be guaranteed a certain level of quality for their experience? If your answer to player complaints about limited tournament playing time is to "get better so you make it to grand finals", then you're just going to drive people away from entering. Many people hesitate or refuse outright to enter tournaments that won't give them many games, and everyone in the community suffers as a result. It's not just the worse players who lose out when they decide not to enter. Prize money is reduced, and new players are discouraged from attending at all since entering is ridiculously overpriced for them.

Why are people so adamant on playing so many people in tournament? Didn't all of you complain last time that the tournament took too long. I mean really. Unless you are a top player, you go to Apex for friendlies, MM's and such. If this was normal pools, there would have to be a second round and that would take even longer. It would be like last year but even worse as there are more people.
Do you honestly want a tournament that could only potentially finish on time if there were 2 pools of 6 in both games if the games lasted from 10:00 AM to 4:00 AM the next day? It wouldn't be fun and it would be stressful like the previous apex ending.

If this was 4 days or if we were guaranteed enough Wii's/GC's to make it so pools could be finished in record time, then yeah, Alex could have made pools. But Alex is smart as he knew that there would not be enough as the smash community does not spell the word "reliable" outside of paying for people to show up. If you want there to be pools, bring along a wii, or 3, and do not wait for the last 30 seconds to register for singles or to change your teams partner. I knew my partner over a month before I registered. I informed the staff directly when I realized that I didn't want to play brawl and asked them how I could make it so my partner and I were teaming. I have been registered for months unlike probably 100 or even more of you.

vvv, also this.

You are absolutely wrong in your assumption that non-top players go for friendlies. If that were the case, NONE OF THEM WOULD ENTER THE TOURNAMENT. DUH! As I've talked about above, there are a lot more ways of saving time during tournaments than ****ing over new/worse players more than they already are. Hell, we could save even more time by going straight into bracket. Can't wait to see how much this community grows when little Billy goes 0 and 4 vs. Mango and someone who's been playing for a couple years. I'm sure he'll put in a bunch of time and effort to improve for Apex 2018 instead of just never going to a tournament ever again.

I'm not going to go through and state my detailed opinions/logic again for the 100th time, but I will just say that all the people *****ing about bracket pools please just either:

A. Shut the **** up, and dont enter the tourney
B. Shut the **** up, and enter the tourney
C. Shut the **** up, and shut the **** up

I would love to see this logic applied to something more important.

"Hey black people, I know you think you're entitled to voting, but you don't deserve that privilege. The way I see it, you can shut the **** up and leave the country or you can shut the **** up and stay in the country."

Really classy logic there. For the millionth time, if your goal is to kill the community as fast as possible, by all means tell new/bad players who want more tournament sets to shut the **** up. If we **** over those players hard enough, maybe we can reduce attendance at next year's event.

I explained why we won't do the standard. The low levels will have a great time playing friendlies. Happened at SKtar and will happen again.

Of course everyone will have a great time playing friendlies, but some people are paying $30 extra for two tournament sets, only one of which is likely to be evenly matched at all. We may be stuck with it at this point in time, but there's certainly much better ways of going about getting players more tournament sets that won't pose a serious threat to the tournament running over.

 

[xDD-Master]

Polls do not work cause people do not take into account all the factors. For example, in a perfect world I'd do RR but I do not have the space or the setups for the amount I'd NEED ( 96 each ) to make it run without doing other events.

RIP Chibo

I already did the math for you. With 10 people each pool, and the same amount of TVs, RR Bo1 and Bracket Pools Bo3 will take almost the same time... at least in theory. But OK, the bigger the pools get (For example 16 people), I think Bracket Pools will be quicker to some extend. But around 8-10 people, its nearly the same.

But w/e. I think you have other (more important) stuff to focus on now, maybe just keep it in mind for the next APEX and talk about it with Keitaro etc. :D
So lets end this discussion now ^^

 

[Alex Strife]

TOs and others are deciding. We will take suggestions but TBH I have seen so many things different things that it really is not feasible. I want people to enjoy the show and to give good matches. We want to stream Hype matches and most of those are on WF/LF

We will pick pools based on that HOWEVER here is what will happen..

Some pool will get left out and people will still be upset.

 

[AllyKnight]

Reflex is in now. YESSs Watch out Vinnie.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Reflex is in now. YESSs Watch out Vinnie.

Thank you Ally and whoever else, your awesome :D

 

[ranmaru]

As much as I like pools, I am willing and open to see how this goes. Can't really do anything about it now, I think. I mean, I don't think it would be a good thing for Strife to last minute just go do pools because of people being against it.

Let's play and then learn from our experience. (We can then argue why we don't want or do want bracket pools for next year) I admit I don't totally understand bracket pools as it's new to me, but I shouldn't forget that i'm also going to Apex to have fun and chill with all you people.

FRIENDLIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ALL DAY

 

[Tesh]

TOs and others are deciding. We will take suggestions but TBH I have seen so many things different things that it really is not feasible. I want people to enjoy the show and to give good matches. We want to stream Hype matches and most of those are on WF/LF

We will pick pools based on that HOWEVER here is what will happen..

Some pool will get left out and people will still be upset.

Well when we thought WF/LF wasnt being played out I know alot of us had some stuff in mind. You gotta stream something during the hour or so before pools start reaching finals. So maybe just give it a shot so you don't have 500+ people watching the most boring sets available? Please?

 

[xDD-Master]

Well when we thought WF/LF wasnt being played out I know alot of us had some stuff in mind. You gotta stream something during the hour or so before pools start reaching finals. So maybe just give it a shot so you don't have 500+ people watching the most boring sets available? Please?

He could just start 3-4 pools before the others, so that the top matches are already ready to be played and streamed, when the other just start their first rounds. Dunno, would be extra effort, but for the stream monsters, that would be really cool of course.

Otherwise, just stream OoS people, JP and/or EU guys, for hype reasons. You just don't see them as often as US guys.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Hey Alex ill be bringing a setup a recording one. Is it alright if I record my own matches/pool matches? I'd also like to record higher level pools matches. Just making sure this is all gravy.

 

[JTsm]

Bones. stfu. Don't go if you think the event is terrible.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I'm against the complaining because it dehypes the thread

Also pidge ill mm you for that hat

Hell no it cost me $20

 

[Bones0]

As much as I like pools, I am willing and open to see how this goes. Can't really do anything about it now, I think. I mean, I don't think it would be a good thing for Strife to last minute just go do pools because of people being against it.

Let's play and then learn from our experience. (We can then argue why we don't want or do want bracket pools for next year) I admit I don't totally understand bracket pools as it's new to me, but I shouldn't forget that i'm also going to Apex to have fun and chill with all you people.

FRIENDLIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ALL DAY

All they did was replace 6 or 8-man pools with 16-man brackets. This really just adds in arbitrary byes and makes it virtually impossible to get out of pools if you were seeded poorly. The only benefit is that it is faster. Someone more familiar with how the brackets themselves are being seeded can probably point out more specifically how easy it is for players to get screwed over either because they were given a bad seeding or an opponent who was a bad matchup for them. And with only two losses to spare, getting a bad matchup can make or break you getting out as opposed to RR where if you have one bad matchup, you can make up for it by beating other players the opponent could not.

Bones. stfu. Don't go if you think the event is terrible.

WHERE did I say the event would be terrible??? The only problem I've talked about at all is that bad players won't get many matches. It's not the end of the world, and it won't even matter to most of the people either because they are good enough to get their money's worth in matches, don't care about getting that many matches, or aren't entering at all. That doesn't change the fact that bracket pools are still a serious problem that I would be horrified to see catch on. I'm just sticking up for the people who shelled out an extra $30 and were probably not aware that they're just going to get 2 sets and be relegated to friendlies for the remainder of the event.

Everything outside of new/worse players getting a limited tournament experience will be spectacular. This has no bearing on how the bracket or crew battle or other events will run, so anyone worried bracket pools will somehow ruin the event is ********. It's just going to be a bit disheartening for some of the players who enter and don't do well and wanted more of that awesome tournament experience.

 

[W.C.N]

Hell no it cost me $20

Ill put up my Mario hat and $20



Once I saw bones call my post ironic I realized he's retarted just ignore him people

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

All they did was replace 6 or 8-man pools with 16-man brackets. This really just adds in arbitrary byes and makes it virtually impossible to get out of pools if you were seeded poorly. The only benefit is that it is faster. Someone more familiar with how the brackets themselves are being seeded can probably point out more specifically how easy it is for players to get screwed over either because they were given a bad seeding or an opponent who was a bad matchup for them. And with only two losses to spare, getting a bad matchup can make or break you getting out as opposed to RR where if you have one bad matchup, you can make up for it by beating other players the opponent could not.

Stop complaining and be happy your going to Apex. Be thankful for all the people that made this possible and the people who are hosting International/OOS players. Do you even realize how much time, money, preparation has been put in? There is so much more good than wrong about Apex. There is no need for that seriously.

 

[Bones0]

Ill put up my Mario hat and $20



Once I saw bones call my post ironic I realized he's retarted just ignore him people

Wow, great rebuttal.

You can ignore me or the guy who just typed "retarted."
Your move, SmashBoards.

 

[JTsm]

I'm convinced Bones is just trolling at this point. His points were already rebutted. GG's.

 

[Bones0]

Stop complaining and be happy your going to Apex. Be thankful for all the people that made this possible and the people who are hosting International/OOS players. Do you even realize how much time, money, preparation has been put in? There is so much more good than wrong about Apex. There is no need for that seriously.

Do you realize how much time, money, and preparation some players put into this game only to get a bad seed and go 0-2 for $30?

I agree there is so much more good than wrong about Apex. I think bracket pools will be the only hitch at all the entire event, and I'm hyped as **** to go. I don't think that means everyone should just ignore a problem though. The only reason I am even still going on about this is because some people seem to think it is NOT a problem. Some people are suggesting that bracket pools are okay, which honestly scares me.

I'm convinced Bones is just trolling at this point. His points were already rebutted. GG's.

Where were they rebutted? I'd love to see. lol

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Do you realize how much time, money, and preparation some players put into this game only to get a bad seed and go 0-2 for $30?

I agree there is so much more good than wrong about Apex. I think bracket pools will be the only hitch at all the entire event, and I'm hyped as **** to go. I don't think that means everyone should just ignore a problem them. The only reason I am even still going on about this is because some people seem to think it is NOT a problem. Some people are suggesting that bracket pools are okay, which honestly scares me.



Where where they rebutted? I'd love to see. lol

If your good, you'll make bracket no matter what. The bracket pools are pretty well balanced IMO. If your border-line good, then gl to you. Realize that this is competion, and there is no catering. Do what you have you do to win or else, theres no way around it.

And this is Apex which is testing the BEST of the BEST. Expect high-level competition, and be prepared.

 

[xFats]

If your good, you'll make bracket no matter what. The bracket pools are pretty well balanced IMO. If your border-line good, then gl to you. Realize that this is competion, and there is no catering. Do what you have you do to win or else, theres no way around it.

edit: i quoted this because it makes 100% sense.

HOLY **** THIS IS REAL. WHY ARE YOU SMASH BABIES ALWAYS FINDING SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT? HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER BEEN A T O DEALING WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELVES? THAT'S HORRIBLE! I seriously hope that doesn't happen to you because you might just hurt yourself from the rage.

Stop complaining about everything. Last year "not enough friendlies" this year "not enough tournament matches"


tha ***.

 

[JTsm]

Bones: Sorry, I'm not going to requote posts if you can't read. When you fail to realize that time is such a factor and how it was a huge problem last APEX, then you don't have a ****ing clue.

If the APEX team had the ****ing time to do RR pools, then they would, but they just can't. And they said this MONTHS ago. So don't complain when you should have informed yourself before-hand.

 

[No_Skillz]

we have more setups (i think) and less people than last apex, RR pools wouldve been doable........... now low/mid level players have to pay a top level player in a MM just to play 2-3 games with them, which is BS since most of those players are coming to learn from the top level players in the first place