Approaching with a Ganon... In need of help.

[Vashima]

Okay... So I've recently picked up Ganon. And I have to admit, Ganon owns.
Anyways, I've been practicing with Ganon for almost a month now. I'm getting used to using Ganon. I got down most of his tech skills (ledge-hop uair, ledge dash, land dash, etc.)
But there's one thing I'm continuously screwing up on, and that's the approach with Ganon.
I can never seem to approach my foes without taking some kind of damage.

Example: I might do a short-hopped fair on a peach, but she'll get me with a up or down smash. And Sheiks... Don't get me started on them.

So.. Any kind of advice would be appreciate.

 

[mood4food77]

fair is his best approach, by far

learn his reach, then you can approach safely

 

[thebluedeath1000]

F-tilts are a good approaching move if you can space well due to most expect ganon to come from the air.

Learn to love his jab, its ganon's version of shine and his fail safe.

 

[KIngGerudo]

fair is his best approach, by far

learn his reach, then you can approach safely

indeed, fair is the best apporoach but also a uair would be useful if the situation called for it.. try a wavelanded grab just to mix things up a bit.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

What was it linguini said recently..something along slow full hops near a foe after many f-airs will naturally cause them to put up their shield, then waveland into a grab, he said it works so it must eh?

 

[Tian]

Well, it's almost impossible to not take any hits...

But if you wanna avoid it better use his Kick then Up-B right after

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Well, it's almost impossible to not take any hits...

But if you wanna avoid it better use his Kick then Up-B right after

Tian, what are you talking about? Hes asking about approaches.

Although you reminded me of a good point to get across, don't be afraid to exchange blows, ganon is very heavy and can outlast many other characters.

 

[MetaKnightmare]

And, i use this when playing against friends who arent as quick as pros, your ground down-b is quick and covers good distance, though, like any move, dont abuse it.

i agree with thebluedeath, he has great survivability.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I only use the down b to end chaingrabs (when I don't up-smash or f-smash), to punish my opponents lagging when close range, and to tech chase sometimes as far as attacking methods.

To each his own. Mixing up ganon's game works.

 

[MetaKnightmare]

on another note, still with the approach, what move do you SHFFL the most?

 

[OF 'til I OD]

And I have to admit, Ganon owns.

So wrong.

I can never seem to approach my foes without taking some kind of damage.

Just make sure you know the exact range of each of his moves. His moves do have good range/priority, so you shouldn't be trading hits all too often.

on another note, still with the approach, what move do you SHFFL the most?

SHFFL them all, always (unless the situation calls for a full-jump). But always L-Cancel, no matter what.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Toecutter, ganon does own, you're wrong...but you surprised me by actually helping for a change!

Impressive.

 

[chaddd]

The concept of "an approach", especially when discussing it as though it requires an attack is not a great concept to attempt to "master".

And approach should be based on openings, not whatever attack you think would be safest. Try wavedashing back, dash dancing, and controlling what direction you're facing better. With Ganon, just about every character in the game can maneuver out of his range upon prediction of, or even simple observation of any random approach you might attempt. Ganon's moveset is too slow for this.

Don't always try hitting your opponent. Sometimes it helps to throw well distanced attacks simply to see what sort of actions your opponent takes. Patience is half the game. The other half of the game is simply defending yourself quickly enough. Using forward tilts to lure your opponent into a kick to the face for 12 free damage feels pretty good, especially once you become efficient at it.

One thing I like to do as a fun mind game you'll find works quite often is to jump towards a grounded opponent and land in front of them while throwing a back air. The thing is you throw the back air purposely in the wrong direction so it doesn't even pretend to hit them or their shield. You must also space yourself well enough to be just out of grab range, but close enough to that a whiffed grab will put them in jab or tilt range. Most people assume a ganon throwing attacks in the wrong direction is a free grab, but if spaced well enough, it'll probably end up becoming a free 12 damage for you.

With Ganon, it's more about what you can make your opponent do, not what you can do to your opponent.

EDIT:

So wrong.



Just make sure you know the exact range of each of his moves. His moves do have good range/priority, so you shouldn't be trading hits all too often.



SHFFL them all, always (unless the situation calls for a full-jump). But always L-Cancel, no matter what.

I'm sorry, but I was under the impression that my Ganon has defeated top players from all regions, and all different tier zones. Ganon remains among the highest tier, I'm afraid. What's wrong with a character that's weakest move does 7 damage?

Also, range is pretty much the only thing that gives ganon "priority". They pretty much removed the concept of priority after the first smash, but certain moves could just hang in the air and either parry or cancel out almost every move every time(cough kirby's forward smash).

And yes, SHFFLing all your aerials is great idea in theory. But I see using that rule with a character as naturally slow as Ganon as a way to become tired and predictable. Don't always SHFFL your moves, and especially don't SHFFL every single one. I can't tell you how awesome seeing SHFFL'ed up airs is, due entirely to the fact that a SHFFL'ed up air with Ganon is asking to get owned. Also, it removes your opportunity to perform double airs. Weak.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Ye, Double-jump Bair FTW. Also try Dtilt, because that has good range, same with DownB and SideB.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Chaddd, when I read your posts, I want to cry alittle inside, in a good way mind you.

 

[Vashima]

Thanks for the advice guys.
Oh and I do shuffle most of my attacks, mostly fairs.

But my friend likes to shield my aerials then grab afterwards.
I try to use ground attacks, but he uses sheik..

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Chaingrab the crap out of shiek and end it with an f-smash.

 

[Vashima]

Chaingrab the crap out of shiek and end it with an f-smash.

Thanks. It's not easy for me to grab a sheik, but I'll practice.

 

[Vashima]

So wrong.

I guess if you look at his weaknesses.... but yeah, Ganon is the farthest from being the best character.

 

[MetaKnightmare]

wow... alot of detail... you have my praise chaddd

 

[OF 'til I OD]

Toecutter, ganon does own

LOL

I'm sorry, but I was under the impression that my Ganon has defeated top players from all regions, and all different tier zones. Ganon remains among the highest tier, I'm afraid. What's wrong with a character that's weakest move does 7 damage?

How many major tournaments have Ganon users won? Using Ganon will only get you so far. Of course there are great Ganon's like Bushman and Eddie, but they never "win it all". It's impossible to do so with Ganondorf. Too many higher tiers simply **** Ganon. People like Ken, KoreanDJ, and M2K would have little trouble (and DO have little trouble) putting down the best Ganons. Ganon =/= High Tier ololol

HAY GUIZE LOOK AT TAJ HE CAN **** WITH M2 GUESS DAT MAKEZ M2 TOP TIER LALWZ

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Toecutter, I wouldn't agrue with chaddd about anything ganon.

Hes clearly higher than you as far as power level goes.

 

[OF 'til I OD]

I wasn't arguing anything ABOUT Ganon. I agree with what he said about Ganon's moves/priority/etc.

This has nothing to do with skill, it's common sense. Ganon does not "own", he is not "high-tier".

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Haven't you heard? Ganon was moved to top tier recently, fox is now bottom tier beside mewtwo and falco is behind yoshi.

But ganon does own.

 

[brawlpro]

the wizards foot(down b...) isn't bad, and fairs, you need to work on em since they are one of the best approaches. And after they block your shffled fair l-cancel it into a standard a, yea that'll work great.

bluedeath you were kidding...right.

 

[MetaKnightmare]

this thread on how to approach with ganon has changed to one about is ganon good.

I belive he isnt the best, but deserves heavy respect. thats y i use him.

 

[OF 'til I OD]

Haven't you heard? Ganon was moved to top tier recently, fox is now bottom tier beside mewtwo and falco is behind yoshi.

OMGEE U R SO FUNNAI

When faced with indisputable evidence, you are left speechless.

gg 2 u

Saying Ganon owns is like saying Alfonso Ribiero enjoyed a successful acting career after Fresh Prince.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Of course not! Ganon is top tier! *Cough*


And Toecutter, the last part of that, was just plain cruel...ganon isn't that bad off.

 

[brawlpro]

flammin on carlton, i bet he could own you in a dance off.

 

[khold]

This thread can go in so many directions now.

 

[Vashima]

C'mon people, all I asked was how to approach with Ganon. I mean, Ganon doe have his many weaknesses, but he's definitely not a bad character to use.

Anyways, thanks Chad. Your post just help me own my friend. It went from 2 of 3 to 3 of 5.

Still having trouble on the chain grabs though.

 

[brawlpro]

pivot grab for chain grabs.

 

[Vashima]

pivot grab for chain grabs.

Will work on that. Still relatively new to Ganon. Only 2~3 weeks of exp.

 

[mood4food77]

approaching with a grab for ganon is not a good idea

just learn his reach, and learn to time his platform dash

 

[chaddd]

LOL



How many major tournaments have Ganon users won? Using Ganon will only get you so far. Of course there are great Ganon's like Bushman and Eddie, but they never "win it all". It's impossible to do so with Ganondorf. Too many higher tiers simply **** Ganon. People like Ken, KoreanDJ, and M2K would have little trouble (and DO have little trouble) putting down the best Ganons. Ganon =/= High Tier ololol

HAY GUIZE LOOK AT TAJ HE CAN **** WITH M2 GUESS DAT MAKEZ M2 TOP TIER LALWZ

The fact that you end every post with those really cool all caps ******** comments makes everything you say 1000x funnier. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Ganon users haven't won very many major tournaments. And first I'd like to say...Eddie and Bushman are great and all, but last I heard about them when they were just being recognized as pros was that they got 3 and 4 stocked by Tipman. Bushman is even said to go Ganon in every matchup. I wouldn't advise any of that, but there are a fair share of characters Ganon has the capability to ****. Like Falco, for instance. I can also tell you I have won my fair share of tournaments with Ganondorf, as well. I don't like to brag, but at the same time you should realize that I am an undesirable opponent for many many smashers in the community, even so called "pros" or whatever adjective you would use to describe someone that's winning today.

I win with Ganondorf. It's not very often that I lose with Ganondorf these days. I have shown states of people that Ganondorf has the capability to lead you into a wall of high damage. The current level of play for this game will continue to increase until it is at a point of discovery and brokenness that it won't even look the same. You can't ever shut out any character, especially the most powerful character, who also happens to have the strongest DI in the game. Mind games can take you much much farther than tech, I can tell you that much. And that is especially true with Ganondorf. It's the reason Tipman was trading with Isai before he quit. This game doesn't really have many limits at this point.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Thank you chaddd, you make my life easier as I don't have to defend ganon since everyone listens to you much more, with good reason.

 

[Linguini]

LOL



How many major tournaments have Ganon users won? Using Ganon will only get you so far. Of course there are great Ganon's like Bushman and Eddie, but they never "win it all". It's impossible to do so with Ganondorf. Too many higher tiers simply **** Ganon. People like Ken, KoreanDJ, and M2K would have little trouble (and DO have little trouble) putting down the best Ganons. Ganon =/= High Tier ololol

HAY GUIZE LOOK AT TAJ HE CAN **** WITH M2 GUESS DAT MAKEZ M2 TOP TIER LALWZ

lol look at the nub

omg this is a stupid *** thread, count me in for not posting here anymore , someone close this ****.
haha

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Hes agruing with me and hes trying to say ganon doesn't own.

Linguini, pray renth doesn't post in this topic because if all three great ganon board mains post in the same topic, its going to explode from the sweer amount of epic win in it.

 

[OF 'til I OD]

The fact that you end every post with those really cool all caps ******** comments makes everything you say 1000x funnier. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Will debunk momentarily.

Ganon users haven't won very many major tournaments. And first I'd like to say...Eddie and Bushman are great and all, but last I heard about them when they were just being recognized as pros was that they got 3 and 4 stocked by Tipman.

Of course. I know this, Tipman was THE Ganon. It was undebatable. He > all, but considering he quit, I don't list him anymore. Granted, he could still probably beat half the pros, but considering he doesn't play, he...well...doesn't beat anyone (on major levels, I'm sure he still plays at fests, etc.).

but there are a fair share of characters Ganon has the capability to ****. Like Falco, for instance.

Sure he CAN, that doesn't mean he does. And Falco can **** Ganon as well. It usually goes either way (unless you're playing like <insert character here) who has 0 chance against Ganon).

I can also tell you I have won my fair share of tournaments with Ganondorf, as well. I don't like to brag, but at the same time you should realize that I am an undesirable opponent for many many smashers in the community, even so called "pros" or whatever adjective you would use to describe someone that's winning today.

First of all, I respect you. I realize you're very good. Don't get me wrong, I'm not debating your skills. I realize you have won tournaments, but even you have to agree, you wouldn't really have a "good chance" at winning MAJOR tourneys like FC, OC, or MLG tourneys. Definitely not if you went all Ganon (though I know you don't/wouldn't). I respect you.

I win with Ganondorf. It's not very often that I lose with Ganondorf these days. I have shown states of people that Ganondorf has the capability to lead you into a wall of high damage.

We know this to be true. But there are few people who can do so, and the Taj example is fitting. Simply because a few people can be VERY good with Ganondorf does not make him "own" or "high-tier". There have to be many people.

You can't ever shut out any character, especially the most powerful character, who also happens to have the strongest DI in the game. Mind games can take you much much farther than tech, I can tell you that much.

Of course not. He may have those things, but he also has a slew of negative things, which is why he is where he is on the tier list.

tl;dr: I respect you, and Ganon CAN be decent but that doesn't make him inherently good. Basically, in the broad scheme of things, Ganondorf isn't good. He isn't god-awful, either. I mainly have a problem with people saying "OMG Ganon OWNZ" having no credible facts to back it up with. Saying he owns just because you like the character or because others are doing it is stupid.

Also, you may think I'm simply some troll, etc. but I do help people on the boards, I just go through phases. And I am fairly good at this game (no not Pro), but I am known at least in my state to be a good player, who does well in all tourneys, and has had exposure in larger tourneys as well.

edit: bluedeath, not really arguing with you, considering you have never had any valid points, and simply ride other people's coattails.

 

[brawlpro]

lol chaddd, he sucked up to ya, lmafao, jk, jk*, ganon can own, hope the argument finished, to be real any character can own, i thought jiggly would be a waste but then i saw killa or, thought pichu was ******** then i saw chu play him/her.

Toe cutter your name does give some ppl an impresion that your a troll.