Are Fox's Shines harder to do in PM than Melee?

[Xposure]

I seem to have a hard time going from Nair > Shine or Drill Shining. Wish I could give more of an explanation but it's simply not coming out 90% of the time.

 

[GeZ]

Fox is much easier to operate in P:M.

 

[Xposure]

Just to fix my statement some. I find it had to SHFFL > Shine when I'm not hitting an opponent. I can do it fine when I hit an opponent.

But I agree with you, much easier to use Fox in P:M.

 

[GeZ]

If you're used to Melee it's probably just the difference in timing.

 

[Nuclear-Cheese]

Inputs are easier and you also don't have to worry about accidentally turning around in your shine then not being able to jump out for however many frames the turnaround lasts. (4 I think?) They took the jump restriction out in BrawlPM.

 

[Boomhound]

If it works on contact but you miss your timing on a whiff it means your inputs are too quick. Strange though most people usually have the opposite problem

 

[Jackson]

Yeah, you're too fast. Sometimes I attempt to shine with Falco in melee a bit too fast and the shine simply doesn't come out.

 

[-Se7en-]

Shine comes out later than it does in Melee. Some characters also slide further to prevent infinites on characters such as Peach.

 

[Boomhound]

.....is shine not one frame in PM also? :S

 

[-Se7en-]

.....is shine not one frame in PM also? :S

God no, it's frame 3 or 5 or something. I think 5.

 

[Pluttergub]

Shine hitbox comes out on Frame 1, and you can JC starting Frame 3. Should be the exact same as Melee.

 

[proxibomb]

I always thought Fox was easier to play in PM. My transition from PM to Melee though is terrible, and I always need a LONG warm up before using Fox with other people. Shines are still relatively easy in PM, which is nice.

 

[Strong Badam]

God no, it's frame 3 or 5 or something. I think 5.

This is pretty easy to verify in Debug mode lol. Hits frame 1.

Shine hitbox comes out on Frame 1, and you can JC starting Frame 3. Should be the exact same as Melee.

JC starts frame 4, as in Melee.

 

[JRC LSS]

Now, I heard people say multishines are easier in PM (presumably with the 1 frame physics delay being to blame), but does anyone know if this is actually true? I went into debug mode and it seems you have a one frame window to shine after jumping, or else you'll be too high in the air. I can't imagine what would make it more difficult then.

 

[Strong Badam]

Multishines still have a 1 frame window to perform.

 

[G13_Flux]

while the topic was mentioned, is the one frame physics delay still present in PM? I only ask because when you operate debug mode frame by frame, your inputs come out the next frame after you perform and input and press z. if it was still present, wouldnt you see inputs only after a couple times of pressing z to advance the frames? I also dont see anything about that in the known bugs list anymore, although that is still outdated to 3.0 it seems. maybe @ Strong Badam can clarify while hes in this thread?

 

[standardtoaster]

It still exists. Easiest example is doing a horizontal air dodge. You stay in place frame 1 and move on 2. In melee you would move immediately on frame 1.

 

[Strong Badam]

It is a physics delay, not an input delay.

 

[G13_Flux]

ah ok thank you both. so im guessing it applies to running, fast falling, DJing, and shifting aerial momentum as well?

Now, I heard people say multishines are easier in PM (presumably with the 1 frame physics delay being to blame), but does anyone know if this is actually true? I went into debug mode and it seems you have a one frame window to shine after jumping, or else you'll be too high in the air. I can't imagine what would make it more difficult then.

I think this might have had something to do with the difference in jumpsquat mechanics. they were bassically the same in melee, but there was something that made it one frame harder for characters to SH than in PM, i think something about when the game tested to see if the jump button was being held. im not sure if maybe characters were being tested for being airborne a frame earlier or not, which might explain it. if this isnt right then its probably just in peoples heads.

 

[Vorde]

It is a physics delay, not an input delay.

Is this a result of the overall game engine being slightly slower than Melee, or no? Just trying to clarify

 

[G13_Flux]

its something about the brawl engine. i dont know all the specifics though.

 

[Strong Badam]

Is this a result of the overall game engine being slightly slower than Melee, or no? Just trying to clarify

No, standardtoaster already explained. There is no overarching "slower"ness compared to melee; there is exactly one significant difference in the engine, where physics update but do not apply until the next frame.

 

[SpiderMad]

It still exists. Easiest example is doing a horizontal air dodge. You stay in place frame 1 and move on 2. In melee you would move immediately on frame 1.

I only hear of the AD example, what other things does it apply to?

 

[-Se7en-]

This is pretty easy to verify in Debug mode lol. Hits frame 1.

JC starts frame 4, as in Melee.

I must be thinking of Falco then.

 

[Strong Badam]

I must be thinking of Falco then.

Nope, Falco's is the same as well. It is as I described in the previous post.