Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[theeboredone]

The timing is sensitive, cause Yoshis like to throw eggs off the edge, but if you can guess right, easy kill. You also have to be careful of them jumpin back onto stage with D-air. That's when they love to use that move the most.

 

[Mr. Doom]

Just letting you guys know that I made it back to Kansas just fine. Thanks again, Brett, for housing Kansas.

 

[Heartstring]

Just letting you guys know that I made it back to Kansas just fine. Thanks again, Brett, for housing Kansas.

good good, have fun?

 

[Slaps]

fun tourney.. Especially team heavys only afterward XD.. Lost to Gnes and Van Jones, definitely could have done better vs Van but idk i don't think i was on my A game... Oh well

 

[Teh Brettster]

You Kansas guys had to thank me too much. It was my pleasure and I'll do it again if necessary.

 

[earla]

watching mr. doom vs dojo mk.

why does mr.doom DI with air dodge? is best option to momentum cancel(bair??)

2. how do you use jab cancels effectively?

3. where are ike's best zones?

4. when opponent is on ledge what are my best options to punish:

a) normal getup
b) get up attack
c) roll
d) ledge jump
e) ledge hop aerial

5. why does mr.doom charge an eruption on the 'eggs/balll things on brinstar?

6. why does mr.doom charge an eruption at the edge as mk's recovering? what is he trying to punish?

7. at like 2 minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MckwsAOuQK0 mr.doom starts dropping from ledge and REVERSE UP B'ing. what is the purpose of that?

cheers from melbourne australia

 

[pinoymk]

Feel free to correct me for those who are more experienced.

Air dodge + 2nd jump is your best bet at surviving horizontal deaths.If its vertical dair + fastfall.

2. Depends on many things such as char and di. Imo its better to just finish the combo or grab, if not cancel at jab 1 or jab 2 if u can get away with it. I like using jab+ utilt but thats not guranteed.

3. idk about this 1 but i believe close but taking full advantage of fairs range. Depending on the char and playstyle, being in the air, ground or a mix can all be good.

4. a.fsmash
b.retreating fair
c.upsmash or fsmash
d.uair or fair
e.fair

5. Basically it lengthens the length of the move so it can be a good bait since an enemy might try to punish after the move is complete and get hit by it.

6.Shuttle loop perhaps?idk

7. I think its to get a few damage on him and possibly spike him. Hes at a high percentage so doing that puts the enemy at a possible disadvantageous situation such as a spike before dying.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

dair can't be debated because every aerial can fast fall on frame 1, what makes dair better is that it moves your hurtbox downward outside of the boundary. It's a very slight effect but it also makes it clearly better over all the others.

 

[san.]

@Mr. Doom or anyone else: What do you think about the invincible dair after aether? I saw you(Mr. Doom) use it a few times against MK, do you think it's pretty safe to use if you space it right, or at least good enough for a mixup? (invincibility, going through attacks, etc)

 

[Mr. Doom]

Are you talking about using d-air after snapping the ledge? If so, that move is very risky, but the reward is great if you manage to spike your opponent. I believe San may perfect this in the long run; I'm turning into a camper.

BTW, everyone in Texas said that I play a very campy Ike compared to everyone else. But I don't consider myself campy unless I time someone out (which I have yet to do). It's time to pull out my tent, start a little fire, and heat up some marshmallows, cuz the next few matches that I might play are going to time.

 

[-RedX-]

Closest thing to a timeout I've experienced myself was yesterday when I was playing a friendly with a Diddy on PS1. 30 seconds on the clock and I just killed him with a Nair lol.

I've never experienced an actual timeout before. ;o

 

[san.]

Closest I've been was against Nope's snake at MLG Columbus 1st match on PS1. I was playing normally, last stock, then I realize there was 1 minute left and I had the stock lead. I was like screw that, and started to camp. Ended up aetherspiking Nope with 7 seconds left, lol.

As long as there's LGL, it really sucks, because I like aether camping, since it works against most people slow on the ground.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I have timed out a Toon Link on PS1 before. It wasn't even on purpose. Until I realized how very close the match was to timing out, of course.

Edit
Don't you love the pattern of PS1?

 

[Palpi]

I remember san was trying to practice his planking/camping one day on wifi...I wanted to ****ing kill myself haha.

 

[-RedX-]

So I'm guessing none of us approach at all when it's the fire section/rock section of PS1. lol

 

[Palpi]

I always camp on that one. Too risky imo.

 

[san.]

Bleh double post. I swear I pressed Edit

Anyways, aether spaced right is pretty annoying for many characters, but there are still some characters that can easily interrupt aether (I don't see many people who know though)

 

[san.]

I remember san was trying to practice his planking/camping one day on wifi...I wanted to ****ing kill myself haha.

Rofl. Falco too good =D

 

[Ussi]

4 Ikes 2 teams 1 battlefield

 

[AN(M)ist]

Reviewing down smash

Man, seeing Mr.Doom own metaknight's dodge with dsmash motivated me to look into that move.

Dsmash w.r.t Utilt:

Pros:
~Does 1 (1st hit) to 5 (2nd) % more damage (I'm kinda confused with the base and growth knockback data - can explain elaborate this for me plz)
~ Starts at the same time (13 frames)
~ 2nd hit has equal shield advantage (-32)

Cons:
~IASA occurs 20 frames late (70 vs 50)
~Interval of 16 frames between 1st and 2nd hit.
~1st hit has extra -20 shield advantage (-52 vs -32)

w.r.t Upsmash:

Pros:
~Starts 12 frames earlier (13 vs 25)
~2nd hit has +4 extra shield advantage (-32 vs -36)
~2nd hitbox last 2x longer than whole upsmash hitbox (12 vs 6) {2nd hit damage reduced to 8 but knockback stays}

Cons:
~IASA oocurs 3 frames late (70 vs 67)
~Does 4 to 3 % less damage
~Interval between 1st and 2nd hit is 16 frames
~1st hit has -16 extra shield advantage (-52 vs -36)

Sooo yeah, LOLLZ, dsmash doesn't fit well here.
But I believe we could abuse the 2nd hit of dsmash. Even if it seems situational, 2nd hit does has the longest and safest hitbox of all the other smashes.
Eg: Suppose opponent is off the stage and aiming too sweetspot the ledge, we could time the 2nd dsmash hitbox to linger at the ledge so they get hit by it.

 

[Heartstring]

Man, seeing Mr.Doom own metaknight's dodge with dsmash motivated me to look into that move.

Dsmash w.r.t Utilt:

Pros:
~Does 1 (1st hit) to 5 (2nd) % more damage (I'm kinda confused with the base and growth knockback data - can explain elaborate this for me plz)
~ Starts at the same time (13 frames)
~ 2nd hit has equal shield advantage (-32)

Cons:
~IASA occurs 20 frames late (70 vs 50)
~Interval of 16 frames between 1st and 2nd hit.
~1st hit has extra -20 shield advantage (-52 vs -32)

w.r.t Upsmash:

Pros:
~Starts 12 frames earlier (13 vs 25)
~2nd hit has +4 extra shield advantage (-32 vs -36)
~2nd hitbox last 2x longer than whole upsmash hitbox (12 vs 6) {2nd hit damage reduced to 8 but knockback stays}

Cons:
~IASA oocurs 3 frames late (70 vs 67)
~Does 4 to 3 % less damage
~Interval between 1st and 2nd hit is 16 frames
~1st hit has -16 extra shield advantage (-52 vs -36)

Sooo yeah, LOLLZ, dsmash doesn't fit well here.
But I believe we could abuse the 2nd hit of dsmash. Even if it seems situational, 2nd hit does has the longest and safest hitbox of all the other smashes.
Eg: Suppose opponent is off the stage and aiming too sweetspot the ledge, we could time the 2nd dsmash hitbox to linger at the ledge so they get hit by it.

the thing with shiel advantage is that everyone powershield in this day an age, offline i can powershield the majority on things that get thrown at me, its not such a pro for ike, but it does wonders for ganon XP

anyway, if you powershield the first hit of ikes d-smash, you can punish with a falcon punch, its that bad.
thats probably the real reason its unused, its decent for tech chasing off the ledge providing they dont ledge attack though

 

[AN(M)ist]

I remember reading somewhere that dsmash negates priority and never clanks, maybe I read it from kirk's guide or something similar. nyways, 1st hit of dsmash is indeed very punishable. I was thinking about the possible uses of the 2nd hit.

One thing that really annoys me is the 16 frame difference b/w the two hits, it takes the 2nd hit a total of 32 frames to come out, which makes it as predictable as fsmash (lol). But even then, if the 12 frame hitbox could help Ike in anyway, it could make dsmash a little less horrible.

 

[Slaps]

My closest thing to a time out was saturday playing Brett in Ike ditto on PS1, 2 of my stocks were over 200% thanks to ps1 =D lol I was trying to time out brett in the last 30secs but got caught by a Usmash -_- lol... Never thought i would see the day Ike dittos almost get timed out XD lol

 

[Nidtendofreak]

You're thinking of Usmash AnMist.

 

[Heartstring]

lol, i almost got a timeout with best samus in the eu, we got to about 17 seconds left before he finally took my stock off me with a ZAIR, i was at 360% XP
then again, he was at 170%, he was too afraid to try and kill me normally for fear of getting hit, anything would have killed by then

 

[Iofsauron]

Can any1 tell me how to do the weird jab thing? I don't get it.... I suffered like 50% each stock by the odd quick jabs from biweeklies

 

[Nysyarc]

Can any1 tell me how to do the weird jab thing? I don't get it.... I suffered like 50% each stock by the odd quick jabs from biweeklies

Do you mean Jab canceling? I know I did that to you with Jab 1 quite a few times. Basically you just crouch (tap the control stick down) at a certain point after using the first or second Jab and it resets back to the first Jab again. You have to time it right though; if you crouch too early it will just use the next Jab in the sequence, while crouching too late obviously means it will be slower/easier to escape. I've finally almost perfected the timing of Jab cancels on WiFi.

Practice canceling the first Jab back into the first Jab again in training mode on Corneria (against the back of the big fin). If you can't hear the sound effect of Ike beginning to crouch between Jabs, it means you're timing it perfectly. If you can hear even a little bit of the beginning of a crouch, it means you're doing it slightly too slow. If you're just doing Jab 1 to Jab 2, you're doing it too early. You can't hold down the A button to Jab cancel, you have to tap the A button for each Jab individually.

Hope that helped, if it's even what you meant, lol. Let me know if you'd like anything clarified.

 

[Iofsauron]

Do you mean Jab canceling? I know I did that to you with Jab 1 quite a few times. Basically you just crouch (tap the control stick down) at a certain point after using the first or second Jab and it resets back to the first Jab again. You have to time it right though; if you crouch too early it will just use the next Jab in the sequence, while crouching too late obviously means it will be slower/easier to escape. I've finally almost perfected the timing of Jab cancels on WiFi.

Practice canceling the first Jab back into the first Jab again in training mode on Corneria (against the back of the big fin). If you can't hear the sound effect of Ike beginning to crouch between Jabs, it means you're timing it perfectly. If you can hear even a little bit of the beginning of a crouch, it means you're doing it slightly too slow. If you're just doing Jab 1 to Jab 2, you're doing it too early. You can't hold down the A button to Jab cancel, you have to tap the A button for each Jab individually.

Hope that helped, if it's even what you meant, lol. Let me know if you'd like anything clarified.

Yeah that was it haha, Thanks a lot, that killed me for every person that could do it

 

[Mr. Doom]

I recently found out an easy way to jab cancel. I just hold diagonally backwards (meaning, opposite the direction Ike is facing) and jab with the attack button.

 

[Nysyarc]

I recently found out an easy way to jab cancel. I just hold diagonally backwards (meaning, opposite the direction Ike is facing) and jab with the attack button.

Hmm... sounds too much like Auto Jab Canceling to me, and I couldn't stand that. I feel confident enough just timing crouches to stick with that.

 

[Teh Brettster]

You can also hold down on the control stick and use your C-stick (set to attack, of course) in the neutral position over and over again. I've thought about using it, but extreme muscle memory hasn't allowed me to even try doing it throughout a whole match yet.

I mean, it would get rid of Dtilts and Dsmashes when you poorly time your jabs.

 

[Nysyarc]

You can also hold down on the control stick and use your C-stick (set to attack, of course) in the neutral position over and over again. I've thought about using it, but extreme muscle memory hasn't allowed me to even try doing it throughout a whole match yet.

I mean, it would get rid of Dtilts and Dsmashes when you poorly time your jabs.

Yah, that's Auto Jab Canceling IIRC. I tried it but I find it much easier just to time them normally. You can still accidentally use a tilt if you don't hit the diagonal on the c-stick too, and I actually found I made more mistakes doing it that way than doing it manually.

Edit: Okay... this is really going to take some getting used to, I keep accidentally editing your post. Maybe I'll just stop quoting, lmao.

 

[Ussi]

Grats Sharkie on mod powers o_o (How do they determine new mods?)

Alright, we got some threads to talk about though......

Do we want a guide and do we want a match up thread to discuss MUs?

Can we change the owner of this thread too since AB doesn't post often?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

@Nys about MU ratio topic thingy, as I don't wanna double post in my own topic. Not every two weeks. MU opinions shouldn't change that quickly. @_@

 

[Nysyarc]

Grats Sharkie on mod powers o_o (How do they determine new mods?)

Alright, we got some threads to talk about though......

Do we want a guide and do we want a match up thread to discuss MUs?

Can we change the owner of this thread too since AB doesn't post often?

Thanks Ussi

I'll have to look into changing thread owners and ask AB about it, but that's a good idea as long as he's okay with it. It would have to be someone who's willing to update the OP with things like new videos and stuff.

A guide for sure, and Kimchi's guide is a great foundation. I'd like to start building on it and get people involved but I'm still deciding how I'm going to tackle it initially.

@Nys about MU ratio topic thingy, as I don't wanna double post in my own topic. Not every two weeks. MU opinions shouldn't change that quickly. @_@

Lol, not every bi-weekly, every season. There are like 7-8 bi-weeklies in a season, so it'll be four times a year just like we planned for it originally.

 

[Iofsauron]

Totally random, are there any Ikes considering of going to MLG Raleigh? I probably am, but I'm curious to whom whos going

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ah, that makes more sense then Nys. And is easy for me to remember

 

[Ussi]

i can work up a guide.. a basic guide..

 

[Nidtendofreak]

i can work up a guide.. a basic guide..

Oh, oh, I can help!

"Press A once to Jab."

Like that?

 

[Ussi]

More like what moves work with approaching, baiting, how to recover (except on MK, i dunno how to do that...), where to DI and not losing your nerve to get the kill when the guy reaches 120% and is still alive

More advanced stuff would be getting into frame data and shield advantage things.. I'm just giving a basic guide