Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Kishin]

ditching ike, for marth?

Oh no, Ike will always be my second main. I just thought it would be more epic if Marth shield broke someone else with a sword.

I have another question now:
I just shield broke a snake today near the ledge. He flew up and twirling downwards to his death, completely failing to grab the ledge. So does that mean if you are in the tumbling animation via shield break then you can't grab the ledge? Or was the snake just holding down?

Related question:
Do characters have different shield break stuns? Errr, does the distance they fly up and move differ upon character? Jigglypuff is an exception we know that but are there other characters?

 

[Vitamin_x]

I want it as my avatar.

Isn't that a bit big for an avatar?

 

[Kishin]

Isn't that a bit big for an avatar?

I don't think so if you can compress it small enough.

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/1/1c/Shield_Breaker_Brawl.jpg/180px-Shield_Breaker_Brawl.jpg
I was hoping something like that.

EDIT: ANOTHER QUESTION, when people hold their shield down, does that amount of shield they lost every second differ? As in, do some characters deplete their shield faster by holding it compared to other characters? Does tilting your shield deplete shield faster if you hold it?

 

[Pierce7d]

Oh no, Ike will always be my second main. I just thought it would be more epic if Marth shield broke someone else with a sword.

I have another question now:
I just shield broke a snake today near the ledge. He flew up and twirling downwards to his death, completely failing to grab the ledge. So does that mean if you are in the tumbling animation via shield break then you can't grab the ledge? Or was the snake just holding down?

Related question:
Do characters have different shield break stuns? Errr, does the distance they fly up and move differ upon character? Jigglypuff is an exception we know that but are there other characters?

Possibly the shield break is different, but it's generally considered irrelevant, and therefore no one has researched it. If you're trying to get your name out there, it's a nice bit of research you might undertake to get some credentials on your belt, and get recognized by higher echelon intel.

While you are in the tumbling animation, you can't do anything, including grabbing a ledge. Fludd becomes useful here (doubles), as well as breaking a shield on a moving platform, or things of that nature. You can grab an edge while dizzy though.

If you are in the middle of doing a SH and an olimar runs up to you into a shield couldn't you just change the reatreating SH into an approaching one and FF into a grab? if his shield isn't full you can hesitate a split second and break it with sb. theres no really guaranteed way to get around most tactics, as there are option that'll compensate for those. its best to utilize multiple options, if you have more options than he has responses that will be more discouraging for him than a consistent method that he can work around eventually.

reguarding Nair, its a great edgeguarding tool since the long hitbox will punish a poorly timed airdodge, also since it autocancels, if your opponent airdodges the whole thing you have minimal lag when you land so if you land a little earlier than them you have time to punish.

Olimar has no grab armor. If you time it correctly, you can Fair or Nair his shield, and then use another fast attack like Dolphin Slash and possibly Dancing Blade or Jab (I prefer Dancing Blade) and Olimar will be punished for trying to grab. Also, if he grabs you as he gets hit by shieldbreaker, it trades, and you take 3 damage for an autobreak, while he takes 8 for getting hit by shield breaker.

I don't think so if you can compress it small enough.

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/1/1c/Shield_Breaker_Brawl.jpg/180px-Shield_Breaker_Brawl.jpg
I was hoping something like that.

EDIT: ANOTHER QUESTION, when people hold their shield down, does that amount of shield they lost every second differ? As in, do some characters deplete their shield faster by holding it compared to other characters? Does tilting your shield deplete shield faster if you hold it?

See answer to above question

 

[bludhoundz]

I saved a replay of this but I'm not sure how I would upload it.

I was Marth and my friend was playing as DDD. I broke his shield while he was on one of those umbrellas in Delfino (the right one to be specific). He did the whole shield break animation where he flies up a little and then falls back down. However instead of landing on the (left side of the) umbrella and being stunned, he bounced off of it and was not stunned.

I guess there's no question really.. it probably has to do with the strange physical properties of the umbrellas on Delfino if anything.. but I'd like to hear what anyone else might think could have caused it.

 

[Kishin]

Ok, so these things aren't really known

D-tilt works too for Olimar.

 

[BBoyindo]

I saved a replay of this but I'm not sure how I would upload it.

I was Marth and my friend was playing as DDD. I broke his shield while he was on one of those umbrellas in Delfino (the right one to be specific). He did the whole shield break animation where he flies up a little and then falls back down. However instead of landing on the (left side of the) umbrella and being stunned, he bounced off of it and was not stunned.

I guess there's no question really.. it probably has to do with the strange physical properties of the umbrellas on Delfino if anything.. but I'd like to hear what anyone else might think could have caused it.

You get out of your shield break animation when you slide off a platform. Happens on Yoshi's a lot, i have even seen a video where Anther did that intentionally to regain his shield.

 

[illinialex24]

You get out of your shield break animation when you slide off a platform. Happens on Yoshi's a lot, i have even seen a video where Anther did that intentionally to regain his shield.

Oh I never thought of that. Sounds epic.

 

[dean.]

I don't think so if you can compress it small enough.

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/1/1c/Shield_Breaker_Brawl.jpg/180px-Shield_Breaker_Brawl.jpg
I was hoping something like that.

EDIT: ANOTHER QUESTION, when people hold their shield down, does that amount of shield they lost every second differ? As in, do some characters deplete their shield faster by holding it compared to other characters? Does tilting your shield deplete shield faster if you hold it?

With your question, I think I heard that all character's shields last the same amount of time, except for Yoshi's which lasts one frame longer before breaking.

 

[Kishin]

I need help beating metaknight

This metaknight is not offensive. He plays very defensively and grabs a lot. I can't get past it. He also shields and baits my F-airs a lot as well. I try to grab him because he shields a lot but his D-smash is too fast and *****.

 

[illinialex24]

I need help beating metaknight

This metaknight is not offensive. He plays very defensively and grabs a lot. I can't get past it. He also shields and baits my F-airs a lot as well. I try to grab him because he shields a lot but his D-smash is too fast and *****.

You won't beat a good Metaknight consistently. This is Marth's weakness. Just try to space D-tilts, use counter well, and space nairs well.

 

[Kishin]

N-airs don't work very well because he doesn't use aerials very much. He waits and grabs me with occasional tilts. D-smash makes it so that I can't get close. He does occasional shuttle loops and D-airs as well. I can't even shield break him because even if he gets caught off guard, D-smash comes out before. Is there really no way to beat this kind of metaknight? Most metaknights are pretty aggressive but this one at least plays defensively.

 

[Fatalzyntax]

I saved a replay of this but I'm not sure how I would upload it.

I was Marth and my friend was playing as DDD. I broke his shield while he was on one of those umbrellas in Delfino (the right one to be specific). He did the whole shield break animation where he flies up a little and then falls back down. However instead of landing on the (left side of the) umbrella and being stunned, he bounced off of it and was not stunned.

I guess there's no question really.. it probably has to do with the strange physical properties of the umbrellas on Delfino if anything.. but I'd like to hear what anyone else might think could have caused it.

I saw a video of that once. It happens with certain DI on sloped flooring/platforms at the ledge/edge... at least I think it's DI
Sorry I dont have a video of me watching the video

 

[Pr0phetic]

I need help beating metaknight

This metaknight is not offensive. He plays very defensively and grabs a lot. I can't get past it. He also shields and baits my F-airs a lot as well. I try to grab him because he shields a lot but his D-smash is too fast and *****.

Wow that's weird. Anyway it seems you need to learn better mixups in your approach and space. Since he's not on the offensive, DTilt and some offensive pressure will do the trick.

Oh and if you shieldbreak someone and they land on a slope, it negates the period shieldbreak stun.

 

[Kishin]

Well, that's good to know... another reason for me to hate Yoshi's Island.

I actually mix up my approaches a lot. He grabs through them easily though I could D-tilt all I want but he could simple D-smash in between. If I spam enough F-airs that would probably make him use shuttle loop. Most of the matches against him were fairly close, I just felt like I was missing out on a good strategy to be a defensive metaknight more easily.

 

[illinialex24]

Well, that's good to know... another reason for me to hate Yoshi's Island.

I actually mix up my approaches a lot. He grabs through them easily though I could D-tilt all I want but he could simple D-smash in between. If I spam enough F-airs that would probably make him use shuttle loop. Most of the matches against him were fairly close, I just felt like I was missing out on a good strategy to be a defensive metaknight more easily.

Its actually good to play there sometimes on someone like a Donkey Kong because the sloped platform makes it so his B-side doesn't kill you. He kills so **** well.

 

[BacklashMarth]

You won't beat a good Metaknight consistently. This is Marth's weakness. Just try to space D-tilts, use counter well, and space nairs well.

There is SO much truth to this.

Well, that's good to know... another reason for me to hate Yoshi's Island.

I actually mix up my approaches a lot. He grabs through them easily though I could D-tilt all I want but he could simple D-smash in between. If I spam enough F-airs that would probably make him use shuttle loop. Most of the matches against him were fairly close, I just felt like I was missing out on a good strategy to be a defensive metaknight more easily.

I guess the way to counter this defensive MK is to bait his dsmash. If i am correct, you can drop your shield and DB him b4 the second dsmash comes out (im sure u know this move is spammed till it hits and done a min. of 2 times). Eventually he will catch on and stop doing this and it should make it easier for you to get in your grabs. Approaching MK is NOT going to be easy especially if hes being a campy s.o.b. Maybe u should run into shield a few times and see how he reacts. I cant say for sure what to do atm for each of his responses but im sure u can figure something out.

I also have a question about MK. When he glides in for a glide attack, usually i go for fsmash since sheilding either gets me grabbed or shuttle looped again if i try a shieldgrab. However, sometimes my fsmash misses and i get hit with the glide attack. Lately I've been messing around with stutter step and landing a ridiculous amount of tippers and i was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on using a reverse stutter step on MK's glide attack. In theory it should keep u from getting hit (since u step back a bit) and help u space for a tip. I also was considering using the reverse stutter step for when a character goes for a dash attack. I've found this to be effective on players try to rush u down agressively.

 

[Kishin]

I guess the way to counter this defensive MK is to bait his dsmash. If i am correct, you can drop your shield and DB him b4 the second dsmash comes out (im sure u know this move is spammed till it hits and done a min. of 2 times). Eventually he will catch on and stop doing this and it should make it easier for you to get in your grabs. Approaching MK is NOT going to be easy especially if hes being a campy s.o.b. Maybe u should run into shield a few times and see how he reacts. I cant say for sure what to do atm for each of his responses but im sure u can figure something out.

Well, I've played about 7 matches so far with him and won 1 with a lucky tipper when he was trying to glide attack me. He's confident in the speed of metaknight so I don't think running up and shielding would work since he uses D-smash to punish and uses grab for offense.

 

[Odigo]

He might just be better than you with better reaction times.

But you seem to be able to read him fairly well, so if you keep working at it and PLAY SMART then you should be okay, since reading your opponent is crucial.

 

[Vitamin_x]

A reverse DS comes out faster than a pivot grab/DB... Is that correct?
I was standing facing away from an opponent at marth's grab range today.
Is it worth the risk of freefalling out of a blocked/dodged DS?
On one hand, DS gives me invincibility frames and knocks the opponent away instantly. But on the other hand, DB/grabbing doesn't make me as vulnerable if the opponent shields.
So when is it best to use DS?
To punish an attack/grab?

I feel as if I've asked this before, but eh.

 

[SpookyGhost]

Is there any videos of Marth's 3rd DB down hit spiking or pseudo-spiking people?
I want to see it. I know it works great if timed well in Melee, but I'm not sure about Brawl.

 

[Vitamin_x]

Is there any videos of Marth's 3rd DB down hit spiking or pseudo-spiking people?
I want to see it. I know it works great if timed well in Melee, but I'm not sure about Brawl.

You mean this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-jY3OpJUnc

Edit: I don't think I've ever seen this used in a real game though...

 

[Kishin]

Actually, I've successfully used it once. I'll try and see if I can get someone to get the video.

EDIT: I also need help with the Bowser match up. I just got ***** by one. Mind game ***** my air dodge with Bowser Bomb. Match-up is kind of old for Bowser with all the discoveries and such. Any key Bowser weaknesses?

 

[BacklashMarth]

A reverse DS comes out faster than a pivot grab/DB... Is that correct?
I was standing facing away from an opponent at marth's grab range today.
Is it worth the risk of freefalling out of a blocked/dodged DS?
On one hand, DS gives me invincibility frames and knocks the opponent away instantly. But on the other hand, DB/grabbing doesn't make me as vulnerable if the opponent shields.
So when is it best to use DS?
To punish an attack/grab?

I feel as if I've asked this before, but eh.

Always be facing your opponent onstage. You need that fair, its your ace in the hole.

To answer your question:
I suppose the grab/DB is the better option since its easier to go for follow-ups. Its always best to save DS as a kill move or a possible CG breaker.

 

[Vitamin_x]

Well, say they roll behind Marth during a missed grab or something....
Maybe it's just me, but lots of opponents roll behind me.
It's not a problem if I'm fairing, but the situation arises regularly.

 

[illinialex24]

Well, say they roll behind Marth during a missed grab or something....
Maybe it's just me, but lots of opponents roll behind me.
It's not a problem if I'm fairing, but the situation arises regularly.

You shouldn't, his OoS options are remarkable. Good grabs he can punish you with, DB, DS OoS, fair, F-smash, U-smash, and D-smash all are pretty good at punishing a dumb opponent.

 

[Pr0phetic]

If they roll behind you, punish with: Turnaround DB, Pivot DTilt, or a Pivot Grab (order of difficulty)

 

[Peregrinus Falconidae]

Hmmm. I haven't been here for about 3 months, ironically because I've been playing Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn. So have people here watched the awesome "Royal Unity" Marth video yet? It's awesome ad I was wondering if there was somewhere i could download the songs or the video. If anyone has any info could they please PM me as I'm going to be gone for a while now.

 

[ZHMT]

Hmmm. I haven't been here for about 3 months, ironically because I've been playing Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn. So have people here watched the awesome "Royal Unity" Marth video yet? It's awesome ad I was wondering if there was somewhere i could download the songs or the video. If anyone has any info could they please PM me as I'm going to be gone for a while now.

I can send you them on aim.

 

[Prince Of Fire]

Why is Delfinos Plaza a good stage for Marth exactly? That is definitely one of my least favorite stages in the game, period.

I love FD and Battlefield with Marth.....a lot.

Also-Where is he good or at least semi-decent VS Meta Knight? I find that this match up isn't all THAT bad and that marth out ranges him in the air and is better ON STAGE against him. It's when you go off stage that marth gets *****. Sort of like fighting Captain Falcon or Sheik in Melee.

 

[Steel]

i don't think it's that good for marth, it's not terrible but other characters do far better on there than he does. if you don't ban rainbow vs mk you should ban delfino, horrible stage in this situation.

i just go battlefield or smashville vs mk

 

[Fatalzyntax]

I play too defensively, how do I play smart but still offensive aggro with Marth?

 

[Prince Of Fire]

I play too defensively, how do I play smart but still offensive aggro with Marth?

This is how I play my Marth-

Fairs are my best friends. I use them to attack and to defend. Most of the time people will air dodge your fair and then try to go into you to get on the other side of you. What I do here is the following

Advancing fair....to a retreating fair. All in one jump. It's really effective against around 70% of the cast. You also should EFINITELY be using the c stick for this. You pretty much need to in order to do this properly.

I save my u tilts for vertical kills, use my u smash to rack up damage, save d tilts and f tilts for unexpected quick attacks, use my jab every now and then to disrupt my opponents shielding, and dair ledge hops against predictable recoveries. (Ganon, Falcon, Falco, Fox, Snake, Diddy)

fairs ar eyour best friend. Learn to space. Maybe I'll upload some videos of my Marth and send you a link or so.

-POF

 

[ZHMT]

Use Jab over Ftilt. Its a lot faster and serves basically the same purpose.

Dtilt is one of Marth's best moves, abuse it.

 

[BacklashMarth]

I have a question about MK. When he glides in for a glide attack, usually i go for fsmash since sheilding either gets me grabbed or shuttle looped again if i try a shieldgrab. However, sometimes my fsmash misses and i get hit with the glide attack. Lately I've been messing around with stutter step and landing a ridiculous amount of tippers and i was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on using a reverse stutter step on MK's glide attack. In theory it should keep u from getting hit (since u step back a bit) and help u space for a tip. I also was considering using the reverse stutter step for when a character goes for a dash attack. I've found this to be effective on players try to rush u down agressively.

Quoting because I recieved no response lol.

 

[ZHMT]

@Backlash

If a Meta come in to glide attack you, you can punish with a up b oos. Once he gets close enough to your shield, its guarenteed to hit and you get a good 13% damage in. You can shield grab the glide attack but the timing is kinda weird. You can ALSO run away from it before it hits and pivot grab, but I suggest you just up b oos.

Dont use fsmash against glide attack.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Thx ZMT. I land the fsmash often vs glide attack, but i suppose i should go for the safer option. I was worried about the shield push of glide attack and it causing me to whiff an up B Oos. I figured if MK spaces the attack correctly, he would have no lag (they usually do this) and can go for another semi-invincible up B of their own.

 

[Steel]

you can't punish a properly spaced glide attack.

up b oos will only work if he lands practically right on top of you.

 

[ZHMT]

Edit: Steel beat me to it xD.

 

[BacklashMarth]

you can't punish a properly spaced glide attack.

up b oos will only work if he lands practically right on top of you.

which is what made me consider the fsmash in the first place but i digress lol

*trying new things in friendlies*