AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Marth has safe kill moves his smashes aren't safe.
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Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)
- Thread starter Pierce7d
- Start date
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
I find Snake FAR more annoying than MK, and I'm good at both match-ups. Snake with proper recovery and DI lives to ABSURD percentages. Furthermore, Utilt kills stupidly early, and it's really difficult to avoid and approach. Grenades force approach. MK cannot force an approach, unlike Snake.
Marth's greatest weakness is probably bad DI. If you don't DI correctly ALL the time with Marth, you're done. Marth is pretty light, and while he boasts good aerial mobility and a fairly good recovery, messing up DI will get you gimped very easily.
Marth doesn't have amazing kill moves (thank god all his aerials can kill), but he racks up damage extremely well, so this isn't a problem.
While I'm here, I think Meta Marth is 60-40. All that stuff Steel said that MK does to Marth, Marth does it right back to MK. We have a sword too. Our Dtilt is SAFER than his. We can Dragon Punch his fair. We outrange him mostly, we trade better due to not having multi-hit moves, we have tipper which kills STUPIDLY early, we are heavier, MK can't kill Marth unless Marth DI's horribly, or gets hit by charged Dsmash or Fsmash. Marth can edgeguard MK as well. Marth also has shield breaker to outrange MK significantly (and before anyone comes in and tries to discredit this move, I use it effectively in tournament very frequently.) Our Dancing Blade isn't safe on block, but neither is Ftilt, and they function very similarly. We have grab release for reliable damage out of grab, to neutralize the grab game. Marth should get gimped by Dtilt just as frequently as MK gets spiked (and with good players, this should be never). Our Dragon Punch KILLS. MK has tornado, but Marth has counter, and Marth can UpB out of tornado at low percents (for a kill if the MK is silly and tries to tornado while in kill range.)
In all seriousness, MK has answers to all of Marth's approaches, but Marth has the same for MK (better Pivot Grab). When it's Fair against Fair, Marth wins. IMO, the only reason MK wins is because his DASH GRAB is stupidly good, and nullifies Marth's reliability on his shield. Furthermore, MK cannot be gimped (well, it's really frikken hard).
Take it from me, I live in New Jersey.
Some tips while I'm here: SHDB1 is virtually safe on block since you can lead into the rest of Dancing Blade before your opponent can do anything to punish. The vertical boost makes it unsafe for grabbing as well. This is an amazing tool for crossing up, since it can lead into Fair or Uair (both autocancel) and both are safe on block from behind. Using this helps you get in on certain match-ups, and allows you to keep advantage and push an offense while pressuring your opponent, and remaining virtually safe. Using SHDB1 in the air allows you to pick which direction you want to face (so you can use it even while retreating, or as I said, for a cross-up) and stops your momentum in the air, so you can choose exactly where you want to be. On a shield, SHDB1 -> FastFall Fair will usually get your opponent to shield grab if you deliberately don't space. This is an excellent time to Dolphin Slash for a kill, but make sure you safe it to kill. It's also a good way to set up cross up Auto-cancelled Uairs, which combo into other aerials if you connect (Nair does the most damage, but Uair combos at the highest percent. Usmash can be connected on most characters at super low damage).
Also, if you connect with a Dtilt at point-blank range, instead of comboing with that second Dtilt or Dancing Blade, why not try an Fsmash. At very low percent on heavy characters like DK, Dtilt-dtilt-tipper Fsmash is a combo.
If you suffer a lot from your opponent roll dodging past you, try just SHFFNairing in place. When you jump, they will do what they usually do, and anticipate an approach, and will try to "roll behind you" right into your Nair.
For master players only: Pivot Dtilt destroys roll dodges, although even I have trouble executing it multiple times in a row. It also will allow you to get free Dtilt combos. Pivot Dancing Blade is the most common approach to this problem, but sometimes, really annoying players will roll dodge multiple times, and Dancing Blade will leave you open. Dtilt doesn't, so try and practice this.
Marth's greatest weakness is probably bad DI. If you don't DI correctly ALL the time with Marth, you're done. Marth is pretty light, and while he boasts good aerial mobility and a fairly good recovery, messing up DI will get you gimped very easily.
Marth doesn't have amazing kill moves (thank god all his aerials can kill), but he racks up damage extremely well, so this isn't a problem.
While I'm here, I think Meta Marth is 60-40. All that stuff Steel said that MK does to Marth, Marth does it right back to MK. We have a sword too. Our Dtilt is SAFER than his. We can Dragon Punch his fair. We outrange him mostly, we trade better due to not having multi-hit moves, we have tipper which kills STUPIDLY early, we are heavier, MK can't kill Marth unless Marth DI's horribly, or gets hit by charged Dsmash or Fsmash. Marth can edgeguard MK as well. Marth also has shield breaker to outrange MK significantly (and before anyone comes in and tries to discredit this move, I use it effectively in tournament very frequently.) Our Dancing Blade isn't safe on block, but neither is Ftilt, and they function very similarly. We have grab release for reliable damage out of grab, to neutralize the grab game. Marth should get gimped by Dtilt just as frequently as MK gets spiked (and with good players, this should be never). Our Dragon Punch KILLS. MK has tornado, but Marth has counter, and Marth can UpB out of tornado at low percents (for a kill if the MK is silly and tries to tornado while in kill range.)
In all seriousness, MK has answers to all of Marth's approaches, but Marth has the same for MK (better Pivot Grab). When it's Fair against Fair, Marth wins. IMO, the only reason MK wins is because his DASH GRAB is stupidly good, and nullifies Marth's reliability on his shield. Furthermore, MK cannot be gimped (well, it's really frikken hard).
Take it from me, I live in New Jersey.
Some tips while I'm here: SHDB1 is virtually safe on block since you can lead into the rest of Dancing Blade before your opponent can do anything to punish. The vertical boost makes it unsafe for grabbing as well. This is an amazing tool for crossing up, since it can lead into Fair or Uair (both autocancel) and both are safe on block from behind. Using this helps you get in on certain match-ups, and allows you to keep advantage and push an offense while pressuring your opponent, and remaining virtually safe. Using SHDB1 in the air allows you to pick which direction you want to face (so you can use it even while retreating, or as I said, for a cross-up) and stops your momentum in the air, so you can choose exactly where you want to be. On a shield, SHDB1 -> FastFall Fair will usually get your opponent to shield grab if you deliberately don't space. This is an excellent time to Dolphin Slash for a kill, but make sure you safe it to kill. It's also a good way to set up cross up Auto-cancelled Uairs, which combo into other aerials if you connect (Nair does the most damage, but Uair combos at the highest percent. Usmash can be connected on most characters at super low damage).
Also, if you connect with a Dtilt at point-blank range, instead of comboing with that second Dtilt or Dancing Blade, why not try an Fsmash. At very low percent on heavy characters like DK, Dtilt-dtilt-tipper Fsmash is a combo.
If you suffer a lot from your opponent roll dodging past you, try just SHFFNairing in place. When you jump, they will do what they usually do, and anticipate an approach, and will try to "roll behind you" right into your Nair.
For master players only: Pivot Dtilt destroys roll dodges, although even I have trouble executing it multiple times in a row. It also will allow you to get free Dtilt combos. Pivot Dancing Blade is the most common approach to this problem, but sometimes, really annoying players will roll dodge multiple times, and Dancing Blade will leave you open. Dtilt doesn't, so try and practice this.
Kishin
Smash Ace
That's some very helpful advice there. The thing is though, you didn't address the things I hate most about metaknight, D-smash and his ability to gimp. Ptfff, who would POSSIBLY discredit shield breaker? It's so outrangelously awesome that it's hard NOT to use it in every match.
DI really isn't a problem with Marth but with all characters. It's a basic for all characters. Personally, I believe Marth's greatest weakness is his inability to attack anything under him. His best stage is declared Battlefield which has platforms. I'm surprised that this hasn't been mentioned.
DI really isn't a problem with Marth but with all characters. It's a basic for all characters. Personally, I believe Marth's greatest weakness is his inability to attack anything under him. His best stage is declared Battlefield which has platforms. I'm surprised that this hasn't been mentioned.
Vitamin_x
Smash Apprentice
I believe it's preference whether or not to use them.
I personally find them really useful. Marth's standing grab range is huge, but his throws do pathetic damage. IMO they're used to set up the opponent and zoning. Also, it's fun to stop the flow of an opponent with a grab.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
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- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Most Marth's say yes, I say not really. To me, Marth's grab game is merely OK, since he doesn't have anything guaranteed out of a throw at mid or high percent. Furthermore, his best throw deals 5 damage. I'd much rather hit with an attack that can't be punished as easily. I ONLY shieldgrab or pivot grab. I RARELY approach with grab, unless I'm at point blank, and then I do cross up Pivot grabs (but usually I just do Dancing Blade or Cross-up Dancing Blade).
Marth has the ability to hit an opponent's shield and not get punished for it most of the time. Furthermore, Nair and Dtilt are exceptionally good at shield stabbing. For this reason, I prefer to simply remove my opponent's ability to shield by knocking away at their shield, rather than compromising myself by attempting a grab.
You may also want to try retreated Dancing Blade. This tactic allows you to space Dancing Blade better on the ground, and it's safer.
GuyNamedSean
Smash Rookie
This ain't a good answer! I want a straight forward and helpful answer please...
Oh, and thanks, Peirce7D, about that DI thing!
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
You should read guides. Learn all of Marth's AT's then practice them. Practice mode should be good for this. Practice his aerials grab release and get the timing down on his DB. Watch videos see what other players are doing. Try to record some of your own and see what mistakes you're making. That what I've been doing and my marth is improving I think. You should also learn match ups and stuff.
Once you get those things down you need to play games and put what you practiced into actual matches.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
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- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Best way to test out someone's skills with Marth? Fight them using DK.
Best way to train with Marth? Fight people better than you, or fight negative or equal match-ups roughly your skill level.
Best way to train with Marth? Fight people better than you, or fight negative or equal match-ups roughly your skill level.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Level 3 cpus and practice mode.
ViCTORiOUSViC
Smash Apprentice
what about just practice mode?
then testing it on other people?
then testing it on other people?
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Works aswell. Practice mode can be used for anything that has to do with getting the feel for your character, notably spacing and movements.
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
marth only has one at; space a fair
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Well there IS the DS Ledge Regrab...
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
fair enough.
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
I almost wept when I read this. Seems like a good summorary of the MK vs Marth matchup. Ive been going back and forth with the MK matchup in terms of how well I deal with it. This should help a lot.
10cyancolorednames
ViCTORiOUSViC
Smash Apprentice
then i got to start doing that more..
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
And practice not full hopping and Dair'ing on stage.
dairing on stage is awesome, what you smoking Rukkiko?
ViCTORiOUSViC
Smash Apprentice
Yea I kind of got the hang of short hopping now
And come on..Dair is cool but the thing is I have to stop being so predictable with that move on stage
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Where is the thread discussing port priority?
something about it intrigues me and I want to have a look
something about it intrigues me and I want to have a look
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
theres like a million
good luck
good luck
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
I'm talking about to the extent he does it =P Lol he's my neighbor, we practice every few days.
Nightshine
Smash Journeyman
I believe dairing on stage is only awesome when it hits lol.
ViCTORiOUSViC
Smash Apprentice
indeed lol
Fate?
Smash Rookie
Thats true for almost anything...Im still new to Marth and his Meta game and all, but on stage, isnt anything better than Dair -_-
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
What are good stages to CP with when using marth I've been liking castle seige...or does it depend on the match up? A
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
well it does depend on the matchup some, but it really won't matter that much in the end if it's an amazing marth stage
i practice on japes and use that as a cp for marth mirrors. in fact i'd consider japes one of my best stages.
anyway stadium 1 is a good cp for marth
i practice on japes and use that as a cp for marth mirrors. in fact i'd consider japes one of my best stages.
anyway stadium 1 is a good cp for marth
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Grrr I played on japes today =/ in a marth mirror match the guy dair spiked me into the water then I feel off and died I hate that stage.
Xisin
Smash Ace
depends on the match up and how you play. Battlefield is pretty much the marth standard cp if i dont know what else to do.
Lets see.. good marth stages... BF, i like lylat, smashville, delfino is okay though there are def some character you DO NOT want to take there (DK, Ike, Dedede, Rob etc.) I like halberd pretty well... Castle seige is ok.
For the most part though i go to where that character may be bad at. (snake at RC, Dedede at lylat, mk at FD, DK at halberd and so on.)
Lets see.. good marth stages... BF, i like lylat, smashville, delfino is okay though there are def some character you DO NOT want to take there (DK, Ike, Dedede, Rob etc.) I like halberd pretty well... Castle seige is ok.
For the most part though i go to where that character may be bad at. (snake at RC, Dedede at lylat, mk at FD, DK at halberd and so on.)
ChaosKnight
Smash Master
castle siege is my cp if im feeling counterpicky but if not i usually go neutral or Ps1 ...
Fate?
Smash Rookie
Marth does well most places, your better off CPing a bad stage for them IMO.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Ah, I see thanks for the advise I never played on RC before I don't like moving stages. I don't like FD too much either because ppl like to pick projectile characters and spam them on that stage and if I miss DS I'm rather vulnerable.
ViCTORiOUSViC
Smash Apprentice
What's so good about RC?
I don't really like it..moves too much
I don't really like it..moves too much
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
marths move too much too then
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
I don't think RC should even be in your first couple of choices for a CP, Marth does way better on others.
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
actually it should, depending on the opponent