Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[P. O. F.]

I suggest that you learn how to Powershield

Powershielding is probably the easiest thing to do in Brawl.....

Luigi- Luigi can't approach us... at all so you're going to give him platforms so he has an extra way of getting to us? Umm, no, platforms are better for luigi than flat stages. Also, his projectile is a compliment to his approach, not a camping tool.
Pit- Pit spends a lot of time on the ledge, stage doesn't really matter. And actually I just got back from a tourny and played a fairly decent pit quite a bit. Honestly, I'd be much more worried on delfino than BF. And taken from the pit boards: CP Brinstar, delfino and Lylat
Toon Link- Tink does well on every stage we do and his projectiles while annoying aren't that bad really. If you don't feel comfortable on FD sure, go ahead and ban it, but, it's really player choice preference.
King DDD (chain grab too)- His projectile... waddles... really? I'll concede that seeing as how long FD is, that his CG is a little worse, but his "projectile" has no play when it comes to stage decision.
Snake- Marth beats snake here... we can juggle him forever and his grenades are distractions on this stage, just like every other one. BF/YI are FAR better stages for him than FD, we can't juggle him nearly as well there. *Hopes Shaya comes by to mention how marth ***** snake in general but even more so on SV/FD*
Mario- Again... his "projectile" is a compliment to his approach. And, he can't really approach you either, just like luigi. Flat is good.
Wolf- Do wolf players even shoot lasers at grounded opponents anymore? I would strike this because his dsmash will kill you relatively early, not because of the projectile.
Fox- You're going to end up running through his laser on every stage regardless. So banning FD because he can camp you... Besides, TKD always seems to take Marth to BF, so idk. I can see why you might ban/strike it, but I'd be more annoyed w/ something w/ a lower ceiling.
Falco- I'll concede this one to you, although, Marth definitely isn't shut down by any means here
Diddy Kong- I'd agree with this too
Link- Uhhh, sure, I guess? Bigger boundaries so it'll take longer to kill you while you can still gimp him
Zelda- Din's Fire isn't a projectile.... Also, ban frigate. Long platforms, and, if she trips you on one, she can drop through-> lightning kick. Much more common than on smalll platforms like on BF.
Olimar- Hell no, ban halberd. Stupid early as f**k usmash kill. Jab the pikmin off or ftilt them or w/e. You can actually ignore them being on you except the white ones.
Ness- *disregards*
Lucas- *disregards*

Also, how did you manage to put zelda and forget sheik? I'd agree to banning FD vs sheik. Needles are annoying and it's nice and big for her to run away from.

Other characters w/ projectiles you missed:
Lucario- While FD isn't bad for him, ban frigate, it's Lucario's playground
G&W- He is terrible on neutrals. Ban RC/Halberd
IC- I'd ban FD vs them
Peach- idk, maybe ban FD, although she does do excellently on delfino and can do fairly well on lylat too.
Pikachu- I can agree with FD. If you momentum cancel w/o having awesome DI you'll get thundered (only attack in the game that punishes you for doing something right, wtf?) and because of his QAC tricks he can camp you fairly well. Although, campachus seem to adore PS1 so I'd ban that one if you're worried about being projectile camped.
ROB- His projectiles are pretty telegraphed. I love FD vs him, he's so easy to juggle. Ban frigate vs him.
Samus- Maybe FD here. marth is just tall enough for her to missile cancel at any height and hit him. So she can easily apply some decent shield pressure here between missiles and zair.
Yoshi- Maybe RC? He can camp you really hard and really well on the dynamic parts of the stage although the normal static parts Marth ***** him on. Maybe Lylat too, idk.
ZSS- Ban PS1, by far her best stage.

Overall though, you should be able to PS almost all of these pretty consistently.

While I don't remember what all the taunts are, his counter is: Like I'd let you or something to that regard.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211455

I'm just saying that I think Marth excels on the other neutrals more so than FD.

I think Yoshis is pretty bad for him too because it hurts his edge game which is one of his strong points.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205927

Sweet thanks. I want to pick up Marth as a secondary for Falco and I don't know why but knowing that info makes it a little easier to get into Marth o_O

 

[MUK (Marth User King)]

Hey I was trying to find out if marth could pull off his stun jacket on any move other than MKs tornado?

 

[Albert.]

^^^ IIRC it works on Kind DeDeDe's swallow and Pits Wings (initial hit)

It can't hit them, I think

 

[C.J.]

also works on DDD's ftilt perfectly spaced (I think), MK's SL, perfectly spaced retreating fair from ike and a few other random attacks.

Although, the exact condition is what Albert said, anytime your counter is activated but doesn't hit something.

 

[MUK (Marth User King)]

Thanks for the info. Does it work against any of falcos moves because I play against alot of falcos in my region

 

[Suikami]

Having recently picked up Marth as a secondary, you can expect me to be a rookie with him. I've found myself playing at a slow pace with Marth, and I've found that it ruins my overall game. It's down to that that I really have to ask a few questions...

An obvious question after reading my reason for needing answers; How do I speed my Marth up for a more aggressive playstyle?

Secondly; having the change from my Toon Link, Lucario and R.O.B. playstyles, what are the key combos, strategies and tips that I need to drum into my head to improve my Marth's performence and speed up my aggressive approaching?

Finally, for now; What, in your opinion(s), are the key tips and ATs that I need to master if I hope to be a decent Marth?

Sorry for the questions, especially if they seem so obvious, and thanks for reading.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Having recently picked up Marth as a secondary, you can expect me to be a rookie with him. I've found myself playing at a slow pace with Marth, and I've found that it ruins my overall game. It's down to that that I really have to ask a few questions...

An obvious question after reading my reason for needing answers; How do I speed my Marth up for a more aggressive playstyle?

Secondly; having the change from my Toon Link, Lucario and R.O.B. playstyles, what are the key combos, strategies and tips that I need to drum into my head to improve my Marth's performence and speed up my aggressive approaching?

Finally, for now; What, in your opinion(s), are the key tips and ATs that I need to master if I hope to be a decent Marth?

Sorry for the questions, especially if they seem so obvious, and thanks for reading.

To speed up your Marth:
--Get into the habit of shorthopping when it makes sense to; there isn't any reason to waste a ton of time in a full hop.
--When performing aerials (or just jumping), fastfall at the apex of your jump.
--Try to avoid laggy moves (Smashes, dair, ftilt, shield breaker, dolphin slash, dash attack, ledge attacks, or counter), unless you're confident that they will connect.

Some 'combos':
--Often times, you can connect with a fsmash after a dthrow or a fthrow (it depends on the character) when you grab your opponent at 0-5%.
--Uair will usually connect with usmash when the uair hits just before you hit the ground.
--Against smaller characters (Squirtle, Metaknight, Ness, Lucas, etc...) you are usually able to get follow-ups after a grab-release such as fair, nair, regrab, etc...

Some tips:
--Learn to use your dolphin slash out of your shield.
--Punish your opponent with dancing blade as often as possible.
--Focus on ledge-traps rather than chasing your opponent offstage.

All I got. Others will be able to give you more and/or revise my suggestions.

 

[Duskshadow]

http://allisbrawl.com/video/video.aspx?id=26882
Has anyone ever seen this before, and is there any way for Marth to get out of the supposed lock?

 

[P. O. F.]

http://allisbrawl.com/video/video.aspx?id=26882
Has anyone ever seen this before, and is there any way for Marth to get out of the supposed lock?

It's things like this that make me question whether or not Brawl deserves to be called "competitive."

Grab Releases
Tripping
Toadstooling
No follow ups after any attack beyond 20% most of the time. (Isn't that what a fighting game is? Following up and applying pressure?)
Items at the beginning of a match (Zamus)
Flying/Gliding (Charizard, Pit, Meta Knight)
Armor Frames (Wario, Charizard, Donkey Kong)
Grab Armor
Infinites against walls


I honestly respect the Brawl player who knows and acknowledges that Melee is the better competitive fighting game but any Brawl player who honestly think that Brawl takes more skill and is more technical at higher levels of play is a moron.

The tier list in Melee IMO is not as skew as I once thought it was with it just being Marth, Sheik, Fox, Falco. Nowadays in the competitive Melee scene I've seen much more Docs, Falcons, Peaches, Ganons, and even Links or Marios.


bah, i'm done.

 

[Duskshadow]

It's things like this that make me question whether or not Brawl deserves to be called "competitive."

Grab Releases
Tripping
Toadstooling
No follow ups after any attack beyond 20% most of the time. (Isn't that what a fighting game is? Following up and applying pressure?)
Items at the beginning of a match (Zamus)
Flying/Gliding (Charizard, Pit, Meta Knight)
Armor Frames (Wario, Charizard, Donkey Kong)
Grab Armor
Infinites against walls


I honestly respect the Brawl player who knows and acknowledges that Melee is the better competitive fighting game but any Brawl player who honestly think that Brawl takes more skill and is more technical at higher levels of play is a moron.

The tier list in Melee IMO is not as skew as I once thought it was with it just being Marth, Sheik, Fox, Falco. Nowadays in the competitive Melee scene I've seen much more Docs, Falcons, Peaches, Ganons, and even Links or Marios.


bah, i'm done.

Overall it's all a matter of personal preference. However, you still didn't answer my question.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Anything is competitive. When someone challenges the competitive nature of any game they are instantly wrong, cause competition as no definition other then one person or person(s) acting upon a challenge against others.

Now if you wanna say Brawl is not a good STANDARD fighting game, then that's different, which I disagree.

Now, back to Marth & questions you people.

 

[Albert.]

It's things like this that make me question whether or not Brawl deserves to be called "competitive."

Grab Releases
Tripping
Toadstooling
No follow ups after any attack beyond 20% most of the time. (Isn't that what a fighting game is? Following up and applying pressure?)
Items at the beginning of a match (Zamus)
Flying/Gliding (Charizard, Pit, Meta Knight)
Armor Frames (Wario, Charizard, Donkey Kong)
Grab Armor
Infinites against walls


I honestly respect the Brawl player who knows and acknowledges that Melee is the better competitive fighting game but any Brawl player who honestly think that Brawl takes more skill and is more technical at higher levels of play is a moron.

The tier list in Melee IMO is not as skew as I once thought it was with it just being Marth, Sheik, Fox, Falco. Nowadays in the competitive Melee scene I've seen much more Docs, Falcons, Peaches, Ganons, and even Links or Marios.


bah, i'm done.

This is a thread in the BRAWL forums

And this thread is a Question & Answer thread. That was neither a question, nor an answer.

If you do not like the game, or "question the competetiveness" of said game... Then quite simply... Why are you posting here? Nobody cares.

However, Brawl is still fun to play so, I guess it's all a matter of personal preference.

oh **** I didn't realize we had a genius up in this business

(sarcasm)

 

[321BOOM]

Kay so, Peach matchup question..

I play alot with my buddy whose a Peach main, and those turnips really get to me. I try to powershield them/fair to catch them but she's got so many gimmicks with them (as far as I know, can be used as a followup, glidetossed, bonewalk, freepull turnip, etc.) and I can never avoid them, it's tough getting close. Has any other Marth player had to deal with this? How did you pull through? (what works/what doesn't work?)

 

[Albert.]

Kay so, Peach matchup question..

I play alot with my buddy whose a Peach main, and those turnips really get to me. I try to powershield them/fair to catch them but she's got so many gimmicks with them (as far as I know, can be used as a followup, glidetossed, bonewalk, freepull turnip, etc.) and I can never avoid them, it's tough getting close. Has any other Marth player had to deal with this? How did you pull through? (what works/what doesn't work?)

Jab also kills them, Iirc.

make sure you don't get ***** in the air- FAST FALL.

practice perfect shielding.

Also, camp, lol

 

[Lord Chair]

Who is POF I herd he is pretty cool guy.

 

[Umby]

I would inquire how to play the Marth vs R.O.B. matchup.

 

[C.J.]

Kay so, Peach matchup question..

I play alot with my buddy whose a Peach main, and those turnips really get to me. I try to powershield them/fair to catch them but she's got so many gimmicks with them (as far as I know, can be used as a followup, glidetossed, bonewalk, freepull turnip, etc.) and I can never avoid them, it's tough getting close. Has any other Marth player had to deal with this? How did you pull through? (what works/what doesn't work?)

Z-catch them! SH, they throw them at you, fair/z-catch them. Or, if your on the ground, when they get close jab them or auto-catch them (hit A right before it hits you)

I would inquire how to play the Marth vs R.O.B. matchup.

Rob is gay. He beats you pretty soundly on the ground. His ftilt > your fair and his dtilt > your dtilt. I find it far more helpful to space w/ FFnairs instead of fairs. He gimps you pretty well too, so focus on staying on stage. Now, once he's above you, you have the advantage. You can juggle him fairly well and his only real way down is to upB to the ledge. At which point, don't let him back on. Keep him there. Also, when he's recovering he can't AD until he uses an attack (if he used his upB) so abuse that. His nair is telegraphed so counter it. Just keep hitting him when he's recovering until he runs out of fuel.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Two things CJ:

- Most of his moves are telegraphed, you will know when and where he's gonna do what (laser, gyro, etc)
- I think ROBs Dtilt only wins in speed, as by appearance Marth's Dtilt appears longer

 

[321BOOM]

Jab also kills them, Iirc.

make sure you don't get ***** in the air- FAST FALL.

practice perfect shielding.

Also, camp, lol

Iirc ?

Z-catch them! SH, they throw them at you, fair/z-catch them. Or, if your on the ground, when they get close jab them or auto-catch them (hit A right before it hits you)

Okies thank youu I'll try that out.

 

[Umby]

Iirc ?

"If I Recall Correctly"

 

[C.J.]

Two things CJ:

- Most of his moves are telegraphed, you will know when and where he's gonna do what (laser, gyro, etc)

Granted, but, not to the same degree as nair, imo. Espically since it hits behind him first then comes around.

- I think ROBs Dtilt only wins in speed, as by appearance Marth's Dtilt appears longer

Maybe, I just know I hate using dtilt in this MU because everytime I use it, so does he (since they're used in the same situations for the most part) and he usually beats me.

 

[yoichX]

1. marth spacing should i just pratice in training to learn how far my moves go and how do you excatly space??
2. Sometimes when i try and spike with marth i miss then i go down and then try and recover but die.... any suggestions??
3. How should i pratice DI and SDI and can someone explain what they are excatly because im still kinda confused!

THANK YOU

 

[BetaZealot]

Hey everyone.

I'm a Falco main from MD/VA and I've been thinking about playing Marth.

He is a good secondary for Falco?

 

[Rad]

1. marth spacing should i just pratice in training to learn how far my moves go and how do you excatly space??

Attempting to hit with the edge of your attacks in training mode is the best you can do. Once you're comfortable with each attack's range you can try spacing them against green shells and opponents that move (like... slightly). Spacing is 90% you being aware of where you are and what your options are. It's less about practice and more about awareness in my opinion. Once you know how big D-tilt's hitbox is, you know where you need to stand to space it properly.

2. Sometimes when i try and spike with marth i miss then i go down and then try and recover but die.... any suggestions??

To avoid fast-falling to death, use D-air as you're rising - ie from ledge jump, from RAR. Better yet, just use your other aerials to gimp opponents. Meteor Smashing may be more satisfying, but it's definitely not as effective.

3. How should i pratice DI and SDI and can someone explain what they are excatly because im still kinda confused!

There are heaps of guides on how to DI which are easy to understand. Just watch a video, and it should become pretty clear.

You can practice SDI with a smart bomb. If you have two controllers you can have Pikachu D-Smash you over and over while you escape. Once you get the hang of those pick some harder-to-SDI moves.

Regular DI is a bit of an awareness and prediction thing. You can set yourself to a high percent and try to DI the smashes of a CPU opponent, but I don't really find that effective. If you try it, start with a character that has multi-hit or slow KO moves. That way you can at least DI reactively.

 

[yoichX]

Who thank you! you answerd all my questions!! I have one more that might seem VERY NOOBISH but...
What does Tier mean?!?!?!?!? O.o

 

[Pr0phetic]

Who thank you! you answerd all my questions!! I have one more that might seem VERY NOOBISH but...
What does Tier mean?!?!?!?!? O.o

Well I'ma just give you the good old Merriam-Webster definition:

A row, rank, or layer of articles.

basically, it's a sytem of organization with different levels, which are assigned however they are needed.

 

[yoichX]

well what are they mesureing then? Like recovery ablities or what?

 

[Game Freak201]

well what are they mesureing then? Like recovery ablities or what?

Its measurement method varies. Tournament wins typically used when deciding tier placement.

I got a question of my own, how would I get back on stage when a Meta Knight is trying to gimp me? I try to air dodge and fair, but they usually get the better of me anyway.

 

[Rubberbandman]

They are measuring how well a character does in battle on a competitive level. The higher the better the theoretical match-ups are.

EDIT @ Game Freak201: Try countering his shot if you are high enough to continue to recover, then he'll think twice about it. When recovering lower, you just have to predict.

 

[C.J.]

Tier list orders viability

Recovering vs MK.. mix it up and go low.

 

[Albert.]

Tier list orders viability

Recovering vs MK.. mix it up and go low.

and hope you don't get Fast fall Nair'd or Dair'd

 

[Pr0phetic]

Stay away from attacking MK, he beats you in the air, only do it if your SURE an aerial will throw off their pursuit. Other FF AD through an attack then recovering low could normally get you back. However, MIX IT UP.

 

[P. O. F.]

What are the characters Marth can grab release?

I know:

Squirtle
Wario
Meta Knight

What are the follow ups for Squirtle and if he has more...the other characters? I know Wario and MK. Every Marth main needs to know the MK one. lol.

 

[Player-3]

agaisnt squirtle you can regrab, regrab, regrab, dair

diddy you can GR to fair/dash attack(as with most chars that don't fly too high, such as jiggs and GNW), but bannanas usually get in the way

 

[Lord Chair]

agaisnt squirtle you can regrab, regrab, regrab, dair

diddy you can GR to fair/dash attack(as with most chars that don't fly too high, such as jiggs and GNW), but bannanas usually get in the way

Jiggs goes quite high actually.

 

[Shaya]

Stay away from attacking MK, he beats you in the air

Wait... what?
In a neutral position between the two charactesr, air vs air, its definitely not obvious to me that MK beats us.

Considering our aerials do outrange and some do outdisjoint him in the air, and we have aerial mobility and less landing lag to worry about....

 

[Pr0phetic]

I think I worded that way too briefly. Thanks Shaya

 

[Player-3]

chair i meant it as in like


you can fair/dash attack most chars out of a grab release, EXCEPT for chars that go too high/away like GNW and jiggz do

 

[Punishment Divine]

chair i meant it as in like


you can fair/dash attack most chars out of a grab release, EXCEPT for chars that go too high/away like GNW and jiggz do

You can fair GnW though D: