Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[Vlade]

It would be extremely difficult to get that sort of frame data though.

 

[Denzi]

It would be extremely difficult to get that sort of frame data though.

From what I can tell, it's difficult to get frame data in general. I think I heared that the Smash Lab is working on finding frame data for all characters, so if they find a consistent method of doing it, I'm sure we could just ask them to get it.

 

[Vlade]

Yeah hopefully. Some frame data is easier to get than others though. Finding the start-up frames is easier than finding the duration of the moves, for example.

 

[J4pu]

I don't even understand how frame data would help people get the timing down.
I don't think anybody can distinguish between 60th's of a second, so how would that help you in timing it right?
frame data is useful for knowing what is safe and what isn't, not for helping your timing on things.

 

[zamz]

To add to J4pu, frame data is useful in theory, but relatively useless in practice. If you told me to cancel phantasm in "five" frames...lmao...I'll just nod and laugh at you. Absolutely doesn't help. If you tell me to cancel right before it makes a sound, though, that's something I can actually work with.

Recognizable landmarks would be more useful than frame data.

 

[Cross.]

Just to add to the canceling to get the really short phantasm, you have to press B as soon as you see that little star that appears on falco disappear. It disappears right before you hear the ping.

 

[masv]

simple question. does anyone knows how to avoid the fthrow, fthrow and fsmash tipper perfomed by marth to falco at 0%.? DI upward would be my untested guess.

 

[DEHF]

you can't avoid it at zero

 

[Teran]

With the full phantasm cancel, I learned the timing by ear before I got it down fully. There's that startup whooshing sound, and just as it ends, ie, before the distinctive ping of the phantasm would come out, you press B. That's probably the best starter point for learning the timing imo.

Prrrractice!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I remember a few months ago where people were asking more about how to SHDL properly. Then everyone moved onto BPG and now we have Phantasm Canceling questions. What's next? Anyway....

Could anyone layout for me the exact uses of phantasm canceling? I've been told it's used for specific combos (IAP canceling stuff?) and helps mix up recovery, but I'm a bit spectical on the recovery bit and not sure what combos exactly you can lead into with canceling out of a combo.

 

[Denzi]

I remember a few months ago where people were asking more about how to SHDL properly. Then everyone moved onto BPG and now we have Phantasm Canceling questions. What's next? Anyway....

Could anyone layout for me the exact uses of phantasm canceling? I've been told it's used for specific combos (IAP canceling stuff?) and helps mix up recovery, but I'm a bit spectical on the recovery bit and not sure what combos exactly you can lead into with canceling out of a combo.

You forgot all the Gatling Combo qusestions I'm gonna say that next'll be... I actually am not really sure. Maybe questions about how to do an OoS Usmash with Tap Jump off (it is possible).

Phantasm canceling is used for, like you said, mainly combos, "mindgames", and recovery mixups. Also, if you're sent high, the longest cancelled phantasm will give you more horizontal movement, allowing you to live longer.

 

[B-Mon]

Phantasm canceling is used for, like you said, mainly combos, "mindgames", and recovery mixups. Also, if you're sent high, the longest cancelled phantasm will give you more horizontal movement, allowing you to live longer.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Yeah. It's used for fakeouts, smoother recovery, quick follow-ups, and stylish transportation.

With skill comes finesse.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You forgot all the Gatling Combo qusestions I'm gonna say that next'll be... I actually am not really sure. Maybe questions about how to do an OoS Usmash with Tap Jump off (it is possible).

Phantasm canceling is used for, like you said, mainly combos, "mindgames", and recovery mixups. Also, if you're sent high, the longest cancelled phantasm will give you more horizontal movement, allowing you to live longer.

OoS Usmash without tap jump. Easy enough. Hold shield button on L or R, push up and roll tip of thumb from Y button (still holding Y) to A button.

OoS only refers to things that cancel dropping of shield frame, right? Or is OoS powershielding attacks, then attacking?

Hmm... Mindgaming with a low priority attack. Is that a smart decision? (retorical)

What kind of combos? I still cannot see any kinds of combos this might be used for.

From your experience would you say Canceling Phantasm is skill that is extremely useful even if only in situational areas? SHDL we all know is extremely useful. BPGing is useful for CG. laser to gatling combo catches shields a lot and gets damage. DACUS is useful for longer and controlable killing from SHDL.

I'm still skeptical about if I should spend all this time practicing canceling only to find I don't use it often enough, and my time could have been spent just doing regular practice. SHDL took me like a month to finally get down while practicing for like an hour a day in frustration at not correctly doing it correctly. DACUS I had to actually come up with my own style of doing it before I could finally get it down {UpLeft or UpRight to start dash and hold > Down C-stick > Z ("Z" set to attack)}.

 

[Vlade]

If you want to know what Denzi is talking about, check TommyG's last thread with some nifty phantasm tricks in there, including combos.

Your opponent almost certainly would expect a full length phantasm, and may try to punish with an attack. If you cancel the phantasm, your opponent will miss with the attack, and then you can punish with perhaps another phantasm.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Depending on how high you are when recovering, you can probably get like a third more the distance on the Phantasm when you cancel it at the maximum point. I was wondering, does a canceled aerial phantasm have less lag than a regular aerial phantasm?

 

[B-Mon]

Depending on how high you are when recovering, you can probably get like a third more the distance on the Phantasm when you cancel it at the maximum point. I was wondering, does a canceled aerial phantasm have less lag than a regular aerial phantasm?

It doesn't have less lag but the animation takes longer as a whole if you shorten it the quickest way.

 

[J4pu]

if SHDL took you a month to get down, then ****, I don't know what to say, it's pressing one button then waiting a little while (timing isn't even strict) then pressing another button twice.
Maybe go play melee for a month or something and try to learn waveshining or something, then come back to brawl and all the difiiculty in learning technical things goes away.

phantasm cancels (at full length) are quite helpful for surviving when you would otherwise have fell to your death, I've gotten a few "oooh's and ahhhh's" when they've tried to edge-hog my phantasm only to watch me cancel it and land on the stage.
immediate phantasm cancels are good when they are charging a smash attack to hit you out of it. Not as useful as full cancel imo.

also, full cancel only gives you more momentum for like a second after it ends, then your momentum goes down to 0 like it normally would after a normal phantasm, so don't do it really high up and expect to glide across.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

By the SHDL I meant with the strict timing to get the silent laser. I now have the timing down that I can SHDL and get the silent laser at the bottom like 50% of the time. Even on wifi I can get it. I just cannot get the SHL to work though <_<

End up going over kirby's head too often.

 

[Vlade]

^ most falco players don't get the silent laser 100% of the time. In fact, I don't think anyone does.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

tips against GW? I hate that guy, he combos me to hell and back then kills me with a fsmash

 

[ftl]

if SHDL took you a month to get down, then ****, I don't know what to say, it's pressing one button then waiting a little while (timing isn't even strict) then pressing another button twice.
Maybe go play melee for a month or something and try to learn waveshining or something, then come back to brawl and all the difiiculty in learning technical things goes away.

Iunno, for it being that easy, there are quite a number of vids in the video thread where the Falcos "don't know" how to SHDL - i.e. the second laser sometimes goes too high to hit the short opponent (I was just watching some Olimar vids because I got ***** by an Olimar, and noticed that.)

 

[J4pu]

perhaps my opinion of having it down is too forgiving. I think as long as you hit MK with approximately every other time you SH(D)L you "have it down"

 

[Vlade]

^ that's pretty much my opinion.

As for Xonar's question, just don't fight in the air unless he's vulnerable. I think we need to redo the G&W match-up discussion though.

 

[Darxmarth23]

As for Xonar's question, just don't fight in the air unless he's vulnerable. I think we need to redo the G&W match-up discussion though.

This^.

:bandit:

 

[Chuee]

Do you guys ever use standing CGs on Fox, Wolf, and falco?

 

[Hyo]

No, you want to move and dair spike them off. Wolf maybe.

Then again, you could just BPG them back and forth, preying on their mind in the process.

 

[voomm]

Ok all i find is vids for melee falco are there any you guys could request?

 

[Denzi]

Ok all i find is vids for melee falco are there any you guys could request?

What exactly are you trying to say? I'm confused.

 

[ftl]

Ok all i find is vids for melee falco are there any you guys could request?

If you're looking for videos of Brawl falco, there's a sticky with falco vids...

 

[Vlade]

Check out my falco

I have better vids from yesterday's tourney, I just gotta encode and upload (which is a painful process).

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Say you jump high than phantasm, but not low enough that you get the IAP effect of less landing lag.

Now doing the full phantasm gets you landing lag.

Does canceling the phantasm actually get you less landing lag than the full?

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Say you jump high than phantasm, but not low enough that you get the IAP effect of less landing lag.

Now doing the full phantasm gets you landing lag.

Does canceling the phantasm actually get you less landing lag than the full?

? I thought the only reason IAP has less landing lag is because aerial phantasms have less lag after than grounded phantasms. So it shouldn't matter how high off the ground you are; you'll get the same amount of lag.

 

[J4pu]

the higher you are the more time you have to wait to fall to the ground.

 

[Darxmarth23]

? I thought the only reason IAP has less landing lag is because aerial phantasms have less lag after than grounded phantasms. So it shouldn't matter how high off the ground you are; you'll get the same amount of lag.

Yeah, i thought so too. wtf.

the higher you are the more time you have to wait to fall to the ground.

This. Going full jump will only make get punished more.

 

[ark-angel]

Just a thought, should i turn my c-stick to b-stick to make shining easier? I always have a hard time shining after dropping off ledge then comming up with shine. So i was wondering would it be worth the trade to get the shine much easier and faster or quick uncharged smashes? Thank you.

 

[bribri123123]

the higher you are the more time you have to wait to fall to the ground.

Not if the character has a good D-Air. He/She will fall to the ground in an instant.

 

[J4pu]

... the F are you talking about, you can't use a Dair once you are in freefall because you used phantasm.

and no, shine doesn't get used nearly as much as smash attacks against most characters.

 

[BentoBox]

I never understood why you guys smashed the c-stick down to perform the BPG when you can simply press A. I find it 100x easier to just press A, Z, and Back...

 

[Hyo]

^Helps you get timing of boost smash. it's like second nature.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I never understood why you guys smashed the c-stick down to perform the BPG when you can simply press A. I find it 100x easier to just press A, Z, and Back...

Hitting down on the c-stick will only do the dash attack. Pressing A has that small window where you would perform a dash attack would become a smash. So it's a bit safer.