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[12345678910]

Use nair a lot and make sure to save up a smash for any grabs lucas gets so you can get a fresh hit on your grabbed foe. If you get a grab it may be beneficial to throw them towards lucas so he can get a smash in. Eh...with team attack off you really lose a lot of benefits just like PentaSalia said.

 

[xepherthree]

This is kind of trivial, and it's probably been discovered before, but I was messing around with uair yesterday and found there is a slight suction effect with it if you use it right next to someone. The interesting thing, though, is that only has suction from behind; in the front it actually has a slight pushing effect. Don't think it's really that useful but wanted to throw it out.

 

[DrPain]

I wants to do some practicing, what are G&W's worst stages? Skyworld is obvious, (for me, atleast). I also hold some resentment towards Pokemon Stadium: Melee. Does it really NEED a windmill? I'm just curious of the community's personal preferences, and opinions on G&W's preferences.

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W is retardedly good on Skyworld actually even though it is banned from competitive play. Teching off platforms makes him even better at surviving if you can DI (which is something every good G&W player should know). His D-smash is still **** on the horizontal hit. D-throw SPIKES people through the clouds.

G&W's worst stage depends on the matchup for the most part. FD in general is considered one of the worst stages for G&W, although keep in mind, there are some matchups that are much better on this stage than others, like vs Bowser and vs Ike, who more or less depend on platforms to be less predictable (since they are pretty starved for any safe/good options in high level play), and the extra horizontal room helps Bucket Braking.

 

[Lightning Tiger]

would anyone mind putting up a vid
showing how to upb and footstoool? i still haven't gotten it down.

 

[12345678910]

Like A2ZOMG said, FD is probably the worst stage for G&W. G&W really benefits from liberal stage lists as he does worst playing on neutrals like FD and SV.

Pokemon stadium (melee) should be beneficial to G&W since it has a lower ceiling I believe which help his dsmash and usmash kill even sooner. The ledges also have that space below them where you can just "shark" someone above through the ledge. Take advantage of the windmill and tech on it. The wall transformations provide G&W some possible dtilt locks. Really good stage for G&W though he has better counterpicks.

 

[damaro7]

A friend of mine mentioned that he'd heard about a slide+chef glitch or something? plus Ive seen some videos that GaW uses upB without the trampoline guys. sorta like a short hop upB any feedback would help tremendously.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

never heard of the second one. But yeah, if you use chef at just the right time while running off a ledge, you slide out way further then normal, same with judge, if thats what you're talking about.

Out of these, what counterpicks would you G&Ws suggest?

Counter Stages:
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Brinstar
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise

 

[UTDZac]

I go to all of those stages (except Castle Siege and Lylat) often in tournament. ALL of these stages are excellent counterpick choices, it really comes down to personal preference.

Counter Stages:
Castle Siege
Halberd (not against Snake - low ceiling)
Lylat Cruise
Brinstar
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon (not against Olimar - too many yellow/purple)
Jungle Japes (not against Wario - side blastzones too close)
Pictochat (not against Diddy - too flat, banana locks)
Rainbow Cruise (not against MK - random gimps from shuttle loop)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Hey guys, this is rocketPSIence from the Lucas boards. Recently, we started a new MU thread and we are now discussing G&W! Your input is greatly appreciated in it!

Here is the link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246877\

 

[Roxas1988]

Ive loved G&W for a long time. His dash attack is actually a spike. Pulled it off and the whole room went crazy. And lets not forget the unpredictable judge. Abuse his bair to rack up damage.

 

[fraudster111]

Have a question to ask.
1. How do you spike with dashattack? Is it when they are about to hit the edge or when they are hanging on the edge?
2. When bucket braking which aerial is best to use. up air or nair.
3. How do you spike with dair? Something about slow falling it, if thats the case how do you slow fall dair?
So please help a fellow gnw out. I would have tried looking up these answers myself but uhh...ya

 

[UTDZac]

Have a question to ask.
1. How do you spike with dashattack? Is it when they are about to hit the edge or when they are hanging on the edge?

Dash attack's hitbox reaches below G&W's body. When the opponent is hanging on the ledge, you can dash attack and hit him even though he's below you. When you do hit with dash attack, they will get sent up and behind you. BUT, since the opponent is below the stage, he'll bounce off the stage and get sent downward instead. This is a stage spike. It's possible to tech, but very hard, I've only seen it once.

2. When bucket braking which aerial is best to use. up air or nair.

Nair.

Nair finishes in 34 frames.
Uair finishes in 39 frames.
Bair finishes in 39 frames.
Fair finishes in 44 frames.
Dair finishes in 49 frames.

3. How do you spike with dair? Something about slow falling it, if thats the case how do you slow fall dair?

You have to hit with the beginning part of the move. You also have to practically be inside the opponent since the spike hitbox is fairly tiny.

 

[fraudster111]

Thanks Zac. But i kinda wanted to know how you slow fall the dair. I thought the dair only slowfalled when you get hit. I read someone talking about slow falling the dair to punish which implies that it can be done on purpose.

 

[FakeGeorge]

In order to slowfall dair, just tap down like you would for fastfalling any other aerial. You can also press the C-stick down after the dair has started, and that will cause you to fast fall. That's assuming you have your C-stick set to "smash" (default) and I imagine "attack," too.

 

[fraudster111]

In order to slowfall dair, just tap down like you would for fastfalling any other aerial. You can also press the C-stick down after the dair has started, and that will cause you to fast fall. That's assuming you have your C-stick set to "smash" (default) and I imagine "attack," too.

Arent you describing fastfall dair. Im talking about slowfall. I guess its not possible to do intentionally.

 

[UTDZac]

Arent you describing fastfall dair. Im talking about slowfall. I guess its not possible to do intentionally.

G&W's dair is very unique compared to other characters that have dairs that go downward at really fast (faster than fast-falling) speeds. G&W's dair can be slowed down, unlike the others. You know this... but how?

Well it turns out that in order to "slow-fall" G&W's dair you have to enter inputs that would normally make any other aerial "fast-fall." For some reason trying to fast-fall G&W's dair, which shouldn't work at all, forces it to fall slower... really slow.

How to fast-fall any aerial:
1) Tap down on the Control Stick.
2) Tap down on the C-stick.

If you try to fast-fall G&W's dair with one of those two inputs, it will instead make it slow-fall.

 

[Splice]

At what %'s do characters (namely Marth, Snake, MK, Wolf, Link) need to be for a definite 9 KO?
From the middle of Final Destination for example, and roughly.

Also is PentaSalias video thread still open or is it dead?

 

[2-2]

I actually have two questions to ask before I go to a tourney.

1. How exactly do you tech with G&W? I've gotten everything down but that one concept.

2. How can I make sure I can guarantee dair spike my opponent?

 

[2-2]

And another one, how is that Pirate Ship trick (under the rock) done? I was watching it and I couldn't see exactly how he went under the rock.

 

[PentaSalia]

At what %'s do characters (namely Marth, Snake, MK, Wolf, Link) need to be for a definite 9 KO?
From the middle of Final Destination for example, and roughly.

Also is PentaSalias video thread still open or is it dead?

Yes it's always open=/,i just don't get too many videos anymore xD

I actually have two questions to ask before I go to a tourney.

1. How exactly do you tech with G&W? I've gotten everything down but that one concept.

2. How can I make sure I can guarantee dair spike my opponent?

lawl dair spike again lol xD
you have to literally next to your opponent as you pull the key out to start dair for it to spike.
It's pretty hard and risky to pull off. Not worth it,unless you're 100% sure that it will work



Edit: you have to dair under water and move towards the rock and you should be under it

 

[2-2]

Edit: you have to dair under water and move towards the rock and you should be under it

Thanks, I'm going to go try it.

 

[Lightning Tiger]

Hey Neb would you update ur thread on projectile canceling and add in the other smash attacks?

 

[Neb]

Maybe later, I'm busy helping Hotgarbage with frame data.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganons are discussing G&W.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202473

 

[Mr. Grey]

Ok, my question is about grab release combos, I was reading about Marths guaranteed Fsmash tipper after a grab release, and I was just wondering if G&W has any guaranteed grab release combos, or at the very least, hard to escape grab release hits. Ive not heard of anyone talking about grab release techniques.

 

[PentaSalia]

no i believe he doesn't

tho sometimes after a grab release,your opponent will be sent in the air so you might be able to get a nair in if you're smart

thought here is one,kinda, though it's only good to use if you know your opponent is roll dodge happy.

Grab,pummel,release,charge dsmash
your opponent will try and attempt to roll behind you instead of away and yea
dead lol

It's risky though and there are always better options with dthrow lol;/

 

[UTDZac]

Ok, my question is about grab release combos, I was reading about Marths guaranteed Fsmash tipper after a grab release, and I was just wondering if G&W has any guaranteed grab release combos, or at the very least, hard to escape grab release hits. Ive not heard of anyone talking about grab release techniques.

Just to correct you, Marth has a guaranteed FAIR tipper after a grab release on G&W. Not an Fsmash (dear god).

Also, G&W does have some guaranteed grab release shenanigans. However they are extremely hard to pull off for one main reason. G&W can't normally grab release anyone because he's too short. In order to accomplish a true grab release, you have to grab the opponent such that their feet are dangling in the air over a ledge.

A few grab releases I know on Wario are:
1) Fsmash
2) Dsmash (charge a little)
3) Fair
4) Judgment
5) Spike (timing is hard, but guaranteed)

Again, these only work if you grab Wario such that his feet aren't touching the stage. Sometimes he'll release in the air if he tries to wiggle out and accidentally presses the jump button. See below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80bmur04Zx8#t=4m28s

 

[PentaSalia]

oh ya
i forgot about that one =.=
lol

useful but
who doesn't have a grab release on wario lmao Dx

 

[Lightning Tiger]

In brinstair when you dair onto the logs(?) does ur dairs hitbox keep coming out? or is it just gone.

 

[PentaSalia]

not sure what ya mean

if you're asking if it extends the time dair is out ,yes it does

if you're asking if the hitbox remains so that it could hit your opponent,i'm pretty sure it does but your opponent would have to be right under=/.

Since they're most likely next to you side by side while you're dairing into the logs,they can hit you without being punished.

SO in other words
you're vulnerable lol

I'm pretty sure i'm right, corrects me if i'm wrong anyone ;_;
don't play on brinstar too often (oddly)

 

[Lightning Tiger]

Well u understood what i meant.
Thanks.
that sucks quite a bit. but isn't there a second hitbox to dair once landing?

 

[Mr. Grey]

Thanks that should come in handy, My friend mains wario so I'll try out the release tactics on him.

I have another quick question.

I've seen some G&W videos where they edge guard by Uairing.....
I dont understand why, I usually Nair through the floor.

Whats the purpose of Uairing underneath an opponent?

 

[PentaSalia]

it's done to keep your opponent from pressuring you on the edge

and if you manage to push em back enough,you can make it back on stage safely

 

[Mr. Grey]

ok that makes sense I was thinking maybe it was done in hopes that they would jump or do something ridiculous. But that makes more sense thanks a lot.

 

[Splice]

@Lightning Tiger
The hitbox does stay out and from what i can tell the hitbox is bigger. If your opponent runs in to try and grab they will most definitely get hit. However they could probably shoot you with projectiles or Dedede could even Fsmash you seeing as you will have to wait for all the little log/worm things to break.

With edgeguards, Nair can still be a good idea too. Uair doesn't always push them away, and if they are trying to Dtilt spike you, the tip of Nair is probably a better idea. Projectiles like bombs and waddle dees can be moved away with Uair too, and so if Link was edgeguarding you I'd imagine Uair to be better especially if he tried to Dair. Although I think I'm going off track now...

My Question:
If you are in the very top of MK's Tornado (for example, half your body is out) can you still pull of the UpB trick that lifts MK into the air? How far in do you have to be?

 

[Lightning Tiger]

sweet this should come in handy.
Thanks.

 

[KirbyIRL]

Using U-air accomplishes two things (that I'm aware of): pushing them out of punish range if they misread your ledgehopped u-air for an attempted recovery and jumped in anticipation of a ledge-jump, or just plain old refreshing your moves with the windboxes on opponents just standing there stupidly waiting for you to get up.

I'm not sure where the up-B tricks work on whorenado, but I know it seems to work much better for me if I'm at the bottom left or right of the tornado's animation. For up-b to work at all you have to be in pretty close proximity to MK so that the actual windbox will make contact, so I dunno, maybe DIing into him while spamming up-b would work? If you are at the top of his tornado I wouldn't worrry about trying to up-b him as you can d-air him out of it with some safety.

On the brinstar thing D-airing into those 'logs' is pretty much just a bad idea. It's incredibly punishable from above and the sides and it stales the CRAP outta your d-air (every log you hit counts as one connection), making one of your approach options virtually useless. If you're trying to extend your hitboxes use the tendon-like connections below the platforms on either side (doing this with judgement can sometimes yield surprisingly hilarious results). It's a good stage for GW because of the tilted landscape (d-smash and u-smash get some crazy hitbox placement) and the side blastzones are pretty far away from what I can tell (though I could be entirely wrong about that). The short ceiling is a double-edged sword really since u-smash kills earlier but I wouldn't take a snake or fox here.

 

[PentaSalia]

My Question:
If you are in the very top of MK's Tornado (for example, half your body is out) can you still pull of the UpB trick that lifts MK into the air? How far in do you have to be?

i'm pretty sure you'll only up and B out of the nado

lifting up nado works best when you;re sticking out from the sides
takes good SDI to do it consistently D:

 

[KirbyIRL]

I don't know much about c-stick DI, but would that be useful in any way? Like if you were getting tornado'd but you knew you were in the wrong place to up-b, would it be entirely helpful to claw the controller and smash the c-stick down and to the left or right while spamming up-b? Just a thought.