At what point are there too many characters in SSB4?

[Stompu]

I was thinking, in the off chance that Ridley, Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, Lip, and all the other potential characters that are getting a lot of hype are included in SSB4, would it be too much? Is there a point in the game where there are just simply put too many characters, or is it the more the better?

The only real issue I can see is it kinda makes it less of a big deal when someone gets accepted into Smash, and it would complicate the competitive metagame to extreme levels.

The way I see it, every smash game thus far has increased the amount of playable characters - is this likely to continue in SSB4, and by a long way?

 

[TerminalMontage]

I don't think so. I hope this roster is huge.

Whenever I start up Brawl with my buddies and have a look at the character screen, even though we've got 35 characters, I feel like there aren't enough! I don't want to play as any of them! I guess it's a mentality of my generation, because I have hundreds of video games, and usually think I have nothing to play

 

[BerryBomber]

I actually just finished a deep though process about this idea in the social thread. Its related, so ill post it below.

But first: This game is a celebration of video game characters from all walks of gaming life to join together in a fighting game so epic its one of the defining games of this generation. To simply limit a roster size from there being "too many" would be silly, to me, and this game is in the series' prime. Now,

After reading title after title of "Well at least he/she/it has a chance for Smash 5", I really hope for DLC to be supported in smash. It just seems so unnecessary unless the next big thing in console hardware arrives (and hopefully not just another type of controller.) The Wii U has everything it really needs to be "the Nintendo console" for along time to come. I just cant see it getting anymore HD and socially connected than what it is now. For these reasons I see Smash 4 being the platform for all future Smash bros content. (and Mario Kart 8 for that matter) As long as the game plays like Melee so the pros don't feel disappointed, I don't see no need for Smash 5 unless for new marketing reasons. And with the new Amiibos creating unlimited crossover possibility's, I hope Smash 4 is here to stay. (And no, im not just a cheap gamer, trust me. Heck, I banked in on every Disney Infinity figure, power disc, and playset there is to buy lol)

 

[Flaxr XIII]

In terms of balance, then yes 50+ would probably be too many. Yeah Smash is a celebration of Nintendo but it really doesn't do anyone justice if 30% of the roster plays like ass.
I remember reading somewhere that Sakurai said he would prefer to have around 20 perfectly balanced characters, but felt it would disappoint many fans to have such a low number.
And with the "I don't like this character. Kick them out and put someone I want" mentality that a lot a people have, it doesn't seem like we can ever have that perfect balance.

 

[Stompu]

I actually just finished a deep though process about this idea in the social thread. Its related, so ill post it below.

But first: This game is a celebration of video game characters from all walks of gaming life to join together in a fighting game so epic its one of the defining games of this generation. To simply limit a roster size from there being "too many" would be silly, to me, and this game is in the series' prime. Now,

After reading title after title of "Well at least he/she/it has a chance for Smash 5", I really hope for DLC to be supported in smash. It just seems so unnecessary unless the next big thing in console hardware arrives (and hopefully not just another type of controller.) The Wii U has everything it really needs to be "the Nintendo console" for along time to come. I just cant see it getting anymore HD and socially connected than what it is now. For these reasons I see Smash 4 being the platform for all future Smash bros content. (and Mario Kart 8 for that matter) As long as the game plays like Melee so the pros don't feel disappointed, I don't see no need for Smash 5 unless for new marketing reasons. And with the new Amiibos creating unlimited crossover possibility's, I hope Smash 4 is here to stay. (And no, im not just a cheap gamer, trust me. Heck, I banked in on every Disney Infinity figure, power disc, and playset there is to buy lol)

by DLC do you mean purchaseable dlc, or sort of game updates?

In terms of balance, then yes 50+ would probably be too many. Yeah Smash is a celebration of Nintendo but it really doesn't do anyone justice if 30% of the roster plays like ***.
I remember reading somewhere that Sakurai said he would prefer to have around 20 perfectly balanced characters, but felt it would disappoint many fans to have such a low number.
And with the "I don't like this character. Kick them out and put someone I want" mentality that a lot a people have, it doesn't seem like we can ever have that perfect balance.

I kinda agree, but (and I know the game style is entirely different) you have plenty of other games like MOBAs etc that have hundreds of characters - obviously though a whole heap of them are niche picks however. i think its perfectly possible for ssb4 to have a gargantuan character roster that has enough balance across the board to have majority of the characters be either popular picks or niche picks.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

by DLC do you mean purchaseable dlc, or sort of game updates?



I kinda agree, but (and I know the game style is entirely different) you have plenty of other games like MOBAs etc that have hundreds of characters - obviously though a whole heap of them are niche picks however. i think its perfectly possible for ssb4 to have a gargantuan character roster that has enough balance across the board to have majority of the characters be either popular picks or niche picks.

Sure a MOBA could pull it off but with something as grand as Smash Bros there's no way. Between all the hype, character expectations, competitive expectations, time constraints, and Sakurai's OCD, it's just not possible. At least not right away.
I'm glad that Smash 4 has the patching capabilities that Melee and Brawl didn't have so they could at least work past release to make a better balance. And there's the possibility of DLC as well.
It may take some time but I believe there will be a point where Smash 4 has the balance that no other Smash Bros could.

 

[Stompu]

Sure a MOBA could pull it off but with something as grand as Smash Bros there's no way. Between all the hype, character expectations, competitive expectations, time constraints, and Sakurai's OCD, it's just not possible. At least not right away.
I'm glad that Smash 4 has the patching capabilities that Melee and Brawl didn't have so they could at least work past release to make a better balance. And there's the possibility of DLC as well.
It may take some time but I believe there will be a point where Smash 4 has the balance that no other Smash Bros could.

Do you think he'll utilize balance patches?

 

[Flaxr XIII]

Do you think he'll utilize balance patches?

I think there was an interview when Smash 4 was announced at E3 2013 where he said something like he was glad that patching was possible and would consider using it if needed. I don't remember exactly what he said but I'm sure people will find some balance issues and it will hopefully get patched if needed.
Hopefully read that right but I don't remember where it was from exactly.
He also said in that interview that he was considering DLC but wanted to focus on making the complete Smash 4 package before working on anything for DLC. (The way modern games SHOULD handle DLC)

 

[Reila]

Of course there can be too many playable characters in Smash Bros. I think they shouldn't pass the mark of 55 characters. More than this is too much, in my opinion. If they ever make a Smash 6, I think they will either have to 1. start cutting popular characters to add new ones 2. keep the exact same roster as Smash 4/5 3. make the roster of the game extremely large and probably extremely unbalanced as well. There should be limitations for everything in life, Smash is not an exception.

 

[Kind Dedede]

Of course there can be too many playable characters in Smash Bros. I think they shouldn't pass the mark of 55 characters. More than this is too much, in my opinion. If they ever make a Smash 6, I think they will either have to 1. start cutting popular characters to add new ones 2. keep the exact same roster as Smash 4/5 3. make the roster of the game extremely large and probably extremely unbalanced as well. There should be limitations for everything in life, Smash is not an exception.

Say they had 4-5 years dedicated to putting together sm4sh. You mean to tell me with that much time spent working on new character models, specializing each character to be 100% unique including clones, working out the bugs, et cetera that we should still only have 55 people? Given the small time frame they've had now I can understand that number being a tad much. If they had more time they could easily surpass it with ease. This is a group of people who know what they're doing and have a person who knows exactly how to get it done leading them. Another sad rumor is saying the 3ds is holding back the possible roster size as well. That's a hardware limitation allegedly holding us back, not balancing time.

One can only dream to see what they could get done if they had 8-12 years working on the next smash. Talk about limitless possibilities, every character would in theory get their chance at being a true candidate for the game. Granted that's once again a hardware limitation since you'll still be going off old generation technology.

 

[bigbro2233]

You know the roster is too long when you try to avoid All-Star Mode.

I'm just kidding, the more characters, the better! However, the maximum characters we expect is varied. Some may say 45 characters is expected, others 50, others 60. Me, I think around 48, but that's my call. Again, I doubt anyone would be angry over "too many characters". Take your blessings from Lord Sakurai and thank Him for them!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

At the rate things are going, if most of the Brawl veterans are coming back, there might not be much doubt about having a roster with as many as 50 fighters (Mii Fighter not included).

 

[Bassoonist]

To be honest, I can never have enough characters. Bring it on, I say!

 

[Hong]

I'd have preferred to keep the roster at 40 tops, with lots of love spent on making them as good as they can get.

That's not happening, so I'm still pining for sub 50.

 

[WertQuadNine]

I want there to be around 55 or so. But if they start adding people like Birdo and Mrs. Pac-man then we have a problem.

 

[~Krystal~]

60 is a nice round number.

The question of too many Smash characters is dependent on one's motivation for playing this peculiar "fighting" game of ours. Balance will most assuredly suffer if the number of characters exceeds 50, but to me, that's never mattered. Sakurai and I see Smash the same way: a game full of magic, wonder, items and comedy. A "4 player battle royal" as it were. I wouldn't change that for the world and I'm quite pleased that this roster has gone mad and entered MvC-esque territory. =o)

 

[BerryBomber]

Yeah, I agree that being a smash bros character is something that character must work up to by uniqueness (ex. Rosalina), personality (ex. Lucina), or popularity outside of smash. (Lets face it, Jigglypuff dident get into the first Smash Bros by fighting potential alone). Cant be throwing in just any character unless Sakurai wants to haha.

 

[Ussi]

The game can only get bigger. Otherwise we'd have to cut characters :/

 

[The Animator]

GAME (DATE) = CHARACTERS
Tobal 2 (1997) = 200
Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes(2000) = 56
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (2007) = 161
The King of Fighters 2002 Unlimited Match (2009) = 66
Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition (2011) = 53

SSB4 currently has 36 characters revealed, they could use quite a few more. Plus with the resources Nintendo has it shouldn't be very difficult to balance around 55 characters.

 

[Ryan50]

In my opinion, Smash will only have too many characters when we absolutely have to begin cycling characters one at a time Bloody Roar 3 style due to not having enough room on the screen to place all four players tokens on a character's slot >.>

 

[Metallaeus]

I think the more characters, the better. Of course, if they start getting desperate for characters (which should never happen anyways), that's when to draw the line. Even with such a large portion of the roster confirmed already, I still feel Smash 4 is quite incomplete character-wise. I mean, I'd like to have at least 50 characters in the roster. The bigger the better.

 

[---]

Depends on how large of a roster we're talking. If it's getting into the D-List characters then yes the roster can be too large.

At the current point in time, however, Smash 4's roster (36, or 38 depending on how you count Miis) is still smaller than Brawl's roster (39).

 

[smashingDoug]

well there could be balancing issues and if all star mode is looking to take around a hour then well that could be fun

 

[Kalimdori]

As long as it's balanced, the more characters the better.

 

[shrooby]

I think that after this entry(ies), the next entry should have many cuts.
This is just my own personal take on this, but I think there will come a point where trying to bring back everyone shouldn't be that high a priority.
As the series goes on, there should just be this somewhat-arbitrary set of characters that is unchanging, except maybe with one or two characters that come with each entry, that are always brought back.
Of the characters from 64 through Brawl, I'd say the ones that should be on such a list are...
Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Kirby, Meta Knight, Dedede, Wario, Yoshi, Fox, Falco, Ness, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Game & Watch, Pit, Ice Climbers, Marth, Ike, Samus, Olimar, Captain Falcon, and Sonic.
I'm just one person, so obviously this probably wouldn't be the list in this hypothetical situation. This is something that would take a while to decide and would probably go through many different people including Sakurai, but you get the general idea.
Each time these characters are brought back, they should bring with them something that new and interesting. A few new moves, perhaps. Just to keep them a little fresh. (Though, obviously, you wouldn't change the really iconic moves.)
Outside of this list though, the characters should be newcomers! In my opinion, it's the best way to keep the roster from getting too large and stale, while still keeping as many people satisfied as possible.

Don't get me wrong, for Smash 4 I'm hoping we get as many of the Brawl veterans (and Mewtwo) as possible, but, in the future, I understand that the list of veterans will just get too large. Not everyone will be able to be brought back.
This would hypothetically be an extreme change, I understand. I know that most if not everyone would disagree. This is just my take on it.

 

[jigglover]

I don't think that there can ever be too many characters. Nintendo keeps creating strong franchises, as is apparent in recent years with Xenoblade, Rhythm Heaven, Pikmin and Animal Crossing, and as such representation can be brought to all of them. I don't think it is fair to rate franchises though, so I would like it if Sakurai tried to keep a fairly even number of reps for each franchise as the Super Smash Bros. franchise evolves. As long as the characters are all integrated well, and aren't illogical clones like Ganondorf, I personally think Sakurai should put in as many as possible!

 

[YoshiandToad]

Maybe at the point when Goomba is the community's most desired newcomer, otherwise carry on.

Rotating amongst the Pokemon and Fire Emblem rosters may aid somewhat.

 

[PizzaWenisaur]

Feel like if the roster is too big the game overall will suffer.
I can think of more than a few times where I would try out the characters in a game and a lot of the slots were either clones or just sucked.

Plus, I think eventually Smash Bros will get stale, and at that point I'd rather see them focusing on adding to the core experience of Smash Bros - with something fun and deep - rather than trying to add more characters in a 80-man roster.

 

[fogbadge]

somewhere around the one million mark

 

[SirSplash]

Smash is somewhat revolved around characters so i would like it if there's a lot. But over 80 is my limit for me

 

[MasterMushroom]

It's not when we should ask is it too much, but is the quality high standard. When something like a goomba a becomes playable, it does it send off red flags

Plus balance isn't an issue for developers, it's resources. I recall a Virtua Fighter developer once saying that they'd love to add as many characters as they can to VF5 (at the time), and it's possible to balance a roster with tons of characters. It's when these people have a short deadline and limited resources does it become a problem. Which is why you see tons of fighting games cut corners.

If they did bump the roster to say 80, and the budget/deadline remained the same, you'll have an unbalanced roster. Like Melee or MVC2

 

[Vann Accessible]

There are actual data size constraints on the 3DS cartridge and Wii U disk. So yes, there is literally a roster size limitation.

 

[Stompu]

GAME (DATE) = CHARACTERS
Tobal 2 (1997) = 200
Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes(2000) = 56
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (2007) = 161
The King of Fighters 2002 Unlimited Match (2009) = 66
Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition (2011) = 53

SSB4 currently has 36 characters revealed, they could use quite a few more. Plus with the resources Nintendo has it shouldn't be very difficult to balance around 55 characters.

holy hell, didnt realize other fighting games had so many characters

 

[Banjodorf]

My maximum roster size is 54. Since 37(ish) characters can be ported over (assuming Mewtwo can as well.) you could get some other big names, a RH rep, Shulk and still have...pretty much that number.

I think Sakurai's going to go big, because I think at this point the series is ready, but I also think we'll have to wait and see. At most, I expect 17 newcomers (counting Mii as one unit). I think we'd only start having "too many" once we got all the big names, and added in a ton of D-list no names who don't add very much to the table. (Read: It won't happen.)

 

[WertQuadNine]

My maximum roster size is 54. Since 37(ish) characters can be ported over (assuming Mewtwo can as well.) you could get some other big names, a RH rep, Shulk and still have...pretty much that number.

I think Sakurai's going to go big, because I think at this point the series is ready, but I also think we'll have to wait and see. At most, I expect 17 newcomers (counting Mii as one unit). I think we'd only start having "too many" once we got all the big names, and added in a ton of D-list no names who don't add very much to the table. (Read: It won't happen.)

Ok, this is awkward and embarrassing, but uh... what's RH stand for? :I

 

[Banjodorf]

Ok, this is awkward and embarrassing, but uh... what's RH stand for? :I

Rhythm Heaven, which I'm sure will have a character because Sneaky Spirits. (Spotted in Smash Run. So far only playable series have Smash Run enemies.)

 

[DANICK]

no, 55 characters is enough

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

100 characters probably.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

There's never enough characters in Smash Bros. 4!

 

[Stompu]

There's never enough characters in Smash Bros. 4!

I agree
But holy **** the gif in your signature is 10/10