Attention Fox Boards: Snake ***** Fox

[Fenrir VII]

...A free grab? When he leaves the ground? Sorry, man, thats just kind of contradictory...I think you meant uair or upsmash right? >.>

When he jumps, he has to come down. As he comes down, he has to either attack, air dodge, or just fall... any of which can be shield grabbed I was not meaning a grab as he's jumping, but rather when he comes down...

I also said at the least. that should be guaranteed... whether Fox can dair combo, Usmash, aerial or whatever against him is all situational, but also useful. I was just trying to condense everything into a single solution.

Sorry for the confusion. my bad.

and Yeah...I'm not talking about a standing shooting Fox. A grenade can actually hit that...thrown normally. Let's just clarify and say we're talking about SHDLs

And yes, pwg is sexier... I'm just trying to cover every case. : )

 

[Fenrir VII]

For what it's worth I did some testing and bair trades with Snakes utilt, Foxs' utilt also clashes with Snakes jabs. Fair and uair beat pretty much anything Snake has in the air.

Nair can also trade with utilt, but I'm really not sure how reliable this is... or why you'd want to... I've had it straight up beat it, but i really doubt that's a reliable option.

Fox's utilt clanks with Snake's ftilt too... I think I remember it clanking with utilt, but don't take that as fact. I'm not sure.

Dair comes through the usmash, but that's typically a bad option as it's usually set up for a Snake utilt. SHdair beats Mortar slide if predicted.

just random things to post.

 

[viparagon]

Wow, is everyone ********?

The person who has to appraoch is the person thats LOSING. Snake can crouch all day if he's winning and fox can laser all day until the other character appraoches

jesus!

 

[Rukh]

I think it's been well established that Snake can punish the slow as hell, short as ****, low damage laser Fox tosses around. So whether or not Fox outcamps Snake is questionable. And an approaching Snake is a dangerous Snake against Fox who has a vastly shorter reach.

In all honesty this argument has run its course. Fox fanboys are going to stick by their guy, but the truth is what's well known around the Smash community. Fox is a relatively bad character and Snake is another bad matchup for the once mighty Spacey.

 

[8AngeL8]

Yeah, Fox destroys Snake, which is why Fox is winning so many tournies and Snake isn't winning any.


Oh, wait...

 

[HeroMystic]

This thread reminds me of why I hate character match-up discussions.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Wow, is everyone ********?

The person who has to appraoch is the person thats LOSING. Snake can crouch all day if he's winning and fox can laser all day until the other character appraoches

jesus!

pretty much what I meant with my post....so I agree

I think it's been well established that Snake can punish the slow as hell, short as ****, low damage laser Fox tosses around. So whether or not Fox outcamps Snake is questionable. And an approaching Snake is a dangerous Snake against Fox who has a vastly shorter reach.

In all honesty this argument has run its course. Fox fanboys are going to stick by their guy, but the truth is what's well known around the Smash community. Fox is a relatively bad character and Snake is another bad matchup for the once mighty Spacey.

Um...again, we're talking about a Fox not standing there and lasering, right? Like...SHDLs? not all that slow. And really not all that short. You can't camp from across the entire stage very often, but something like 3/4 of FD isn't short as anything... And yes, it's low damage, but it does refill his moves, and it can put quite a bit of damage on the Snake player in a limited amount of time.

and also, Fox can punish Snake's longer reaching moves from a shield... so the range thing is offset somewhat. yes, he has a good range, but not al that many safe pokes here...

You say it's well known around the community. I say it's well hypothesized around the community. How can you seriously say "the point is...snake destroys Fox and that's that" without backing anything up? good call

Yeah, Fox destroys Snake, which is why Fox is winning so many tournies and Snake isn't winning any.


Oh, wait...

What a ridiculous argument... Are you seriously going to bring that here?

We're not arguing who is a better character. We are arguing a matchup. MUCH different.
Snake does better in tournament as he has fewer bad matchups...this is obvious...
That does not mean that Snake automatically wrecks Fox.

 

[8AngeL8]

What a ridiculous argument... Are you seriously going to bring that here?

We're not arguing who is a better character. We are arguing a matchup. MUCH different.
Snake does better in tournament as he has fewer bad matchups...this is obvious...
That does not mean that Snake automatically wrecks Fox.

If Fox were that good against Snake, people would pick him up as a secondary and counterpick every Snake they played against, meaning Snake wouldn't be winning that many tournies.

 

[Fenrir VII]

If Fox were that good against Snake, people would pick him up as a secondary and counterpick every Snake they played against, meaning Snake wouldn't be winning that many tournies.

Except it's people like the other posters in this thread who keep anything like from being possible.

If Fox did completely counter a high tier... nobody would believe it except those who played the matchup.. and we'd never get the point across.

Saying that people don't pick Fox up against Snake and therefore Fox must get destroyed by him is also a bad argument.

Take me for example... I'm convinced that Fox has an advantage on MK.. in a tournament setting, I think Fox has a VERY good shot at beating a MK, and I beat nearly every MK I play... even those who maybe should be beating me... Now, does ANYBODY I tell this to believe me? eh.. not really. I tried to debate it for a while, but people who don't even play Fox will argue with anything like that to "keep the Fox boards in line"... and hide what may be true...or may not.


and I didn't read this entire thread, but many Fox mains think the match is a straight 5-5 Fox vs Snake.... so that's not doing THAT WELL against Snake.. it's just a good matchup./

 

[Zhamy]

If Fox were that good against Snake, people would pick him up as a secondary and counterpick every Snake they played against, meaning Snake wouldn't be winning that many tournies.

No one here is claiming that Fox is a hard counter to snake. Lern2Logic.

 

[shinato91]

If Fox were that good against Snake, people would pick him up as a secondary and counterpick every Snake they played against, meaning Snake wouldn't be winning that many tournies.

As zhamy said, why fox when you can choose better things to counter snake?

 

[NJzFinest]

If Fox were that good against Snake, people would pick him up as a secondary and counterpick every Snake they played against, meaning Snake wouldn't be winning that many tournies.

Bum picked up Fox as a secondary. Also, no, it wouldn't mean less Snakes would be winning tourneys, heh.

I think of Snake vs Fox in Brawl as Falco vs Samus in Melee. Samus isn't that good but still gives Falco alot of trouble despite Samus being Mid Tier and Falco being Top tier.

 

[2pac29]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jlov4anMuE

Enogh said ^^^

 

[unwelc0med]

seems like i won here, i main snake and then fox

so hah

 

[8AngeL8]

All I'm hearing is "Fox counters this and that", but it's all theory. None of it is playing out in the actual tournies. If he's so good, get out there and prove it. If you can beat snakes with him, go do it and show some videos.

 

[homicidalrapist]

I agree with DMG and Gheb. Fox gets ***** by Snake, just accept it. His tilts are enough to beat you and crouching will void your lasers. When snake gets close, what will fox do? Dair him? smash him? His tilts will **** that crap. There are Foxes that say " Well, we can SHFair him!" say hello to utilt, one of the most op moves in the game.

 

[M@v]

All I'm hearing is "Fox counters this and that", but it's all theory. None of it is playing out in the actual tournies. If he's so good, get out there and prove it. If you can beat snakes with him, go do it and show some videos.

Whenever I have faced a snake in a normal match or a tourney, I have either won, or lost by a small margin. We never said Fox ***** snake; we said its even.

I agree with DMG and Gheb. Fox gets ***** by Snake, just accept it. His tilts are enough to beat you and crouching will void your lasers. When snake gets close, what will fox do? Dair him? smash him? His tilts will **** that crap. There are Foxes that say " Well, we can SHFair him!" say hello to utilt, one of the most op moves in the game.

Wait who are you? From how you are talking you dont play fox OR snake.

 

[Zhamy]

i Agree With Dmg And Gheb. Fox Gets ***** By Snake, Just Accept It. His Tilts Are Enough To Beat You And Crouching Will Void Your Lasers. When Snake Gets Close, What Will Fox Do? Dair Him? Smash Him? His Tilts Will **** That Crap. There Are Foxes That Say " Well, We Can Shfair Him!" Say Hello To Utilt, One Of The Most Op Moves In The Game.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[M@v]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

let me join you.

Rofl-lmfao

im 1337.

 

[-Mars-]

So in conclusion to this thread: Foxs' utilt trades with all of Snakes tilts, Foxs' utilt outspeeds everything but Snakes jab, Foxs' aerials beat all of Snakes aerials, Fox gimps Snake easily, Fox has no difficulties with Snakes defensive game, and high-level tournament play has proven this matchup to be even.........................anything else we should cover?

 

[marthmaster04]

well thought out troll thread is well thought out.

 

[M@v]

So in conclusion to this thread: Foxs' utilt trades with all of Snakes tilts, Foxs' utilt outspeeds everything but Snakes jab, Foxs' aerials beat all of Snakes aerials, Fox gimps Snake easily, Fox has no difficulties with Snakes defensive game, and high-level tournament play has proven this matchup to be even.........................anything else we should cover?

I thought we had all that covered already...obviously some people thought otherwise <_<

 

[PowaStar]

OK so I can make this clear to myself who does better than who and what is the matchup rate?

 

[Storm_Fox]

I would say that the match up is maybe 55-45 Snake-Fox

 

[darkspatan117]

Bump

I can't still believe you think Fox even with Snake get over it it Snake advantage 65-35 at least what it will take to understand that you're not even with Snake?

 

[M@v]

What will it take you to GTFO? We settled this a long time ago and everyone, foxs and snakes, agreed its even. Maybe if you actually would used your head and looked around a little ou would of realized this.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

What? LOL at blind snake fanboyism. Of ****ing course this is an even matchup. XD

Let the topic die kthnx

 

[Dragoomba]

Lawk plez?

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Bump

I can't still believe you think Fox even with Snake get over it it Snake advantage 65-35 at least what it will take to understand that you're not even with Snake?

GTFO....Let this topic end...Fox Snake 50:50.

Requesting lock now.

 

[Xiivi]

Please don't bring back topics that have run their course.