Auto-cancel bair: time to step on people.

[TKD]

Auto-cancel bair step-on:
Hit the opponent with Fox's OTHER foot, which makes it appear as though Fox steps on the opponent. The frame advantage with this and likely whiffs from block caused is incredible. This works when the opponent refuses to throw out hit-boxes (blocking, spot-dodging...). It can be performed from above, after a shine or not, from a short-hop and from a platform after falling from or through it. Although it's difficult to do so, it's possible to step on characters like Kirby and Pikachu! This means that performed perfectly, this technique would make Fox almost completely ungrabbable. I find it to be too difficult to perform consistently against smaller characters, but they're great practice (you'll have a lot of fun if an opponent refuses to throw hit-boxes out in exchange for a chance to grab you). Watch out for pivot grabs. If you advance further, you can defeat a pivot grab attempt, although try to make sure.

The best moment for this technique to be performed is when Fox is at low percentage, because of the opponent's encouragement to attempt shield-grabs. Watch out and observe the situation, because you can still be grabbed unless you toy with the opponent enough: camp that Falco. Move around. Fox will thank you for it.

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

i think i know what your talking about but im not sure..

 

[TKD]

This is an awkward representation of Fox's bair:

/ \
ooo
ooooo
\ooo uuu
ooouuuuuuuuu
xxx
xx
xx

The "U" are the sweet-spot. You want to hit with the "X" parts of the hitbox for the effect I refer to.
P.S.: This was already sloppy, and with the forum automatically deleting my spaces, I can only hope for it to be understandable.

 

[4Biddin]

So you mean hitting them with the front of your bair right?

 

[Robfox]

hint hint
click click
ok im lost ???

 

[JUDGE]

i think wen need a video for this
i understand what you mean and how we should hit the opponent , but i don't understnad why its safe on shields :S is there a greater knockback/shieldstun?

 

[TKD]

It allows you to move towards the opponent's backside immediately even if they power-block. They usually whiff a shield-grab by this point, or unblock...which you can take advantage of. It's just better than nair when executed.

 

[C.R.Z]

read my mind, how odd. i was just thinking about bring up how amazing bair is and that it needs to be used more, i mean it landing cancels on frame 3, some characters would kill for a kill/aerial move thats completely safe on shield and off.

 

[meepxzero]

i love ac bairs because it covers two options when ur punishing recoveries. If the bair doesnt hit the opponent in the air as their airdodging into you, you still have enough time to grab, utilt, dsmash them.

I kinda get how this works, but u probably have to play fox a lot to make it effective as the hitbox for it is in a really weird spot.

 

[C.R.Z]

better get to that hitbubble hack

 

[Luxor]

read my mind, how odd. i was just thinking about bring up how amazing bair is and that it needs to be used more, i mean it landing cancels on frame 3, some characters would kill for a kill/aerial move thats completely safe on shield and off.

Frame data time *cracks knuckles*
From my handy-dandy frame data thread:
[collapse=Bair]B-air

• Start-up 1-8
• Hit-on 9-11
• Cool-down 12-49
• IASA 49
• Autocancel 1-8, 15+ Huge autocancel window, it's hard to experience landing lag for this.
• Landing Lag 15
• Damage (15, 9)
• In-Air Block Advantage -35
• LC Block Advantage -10
• AC Block Advantage -17 Immediate SH Bair
• Perfect AC Block Advantage -3 If you wait the perfect amount of frames to land Bair frame 15 and autocancel it, you get this AMAZING number. Frame trap anybody? I hear Dsmash is good, but they can grab you before the smash. Out of a cross-up it's really good.
• Animation Duration 55
• Landing Animation Duration 31

[/collapse]

I'm not sure what you mean by "landing cancels frame 3." You can cancel the Bair by landing anytime. What I think you're referring to is the "Perfect Autocancel Block Advantage," which is -3. When you SH Bair and wait 14 frames before Bairing, you get that reallyreallyreally good number; however, that's with the sweetspot. For the sourspot TKD's talking about you'll get a -5 advantage if you do it perfect, -19 if you do it immediately. So yeah, learn to time 14 frames after you short hop.

Oh, and Fox's hitbubbles have been done by both me and Bionic.
Bionic's: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=282108
Mine: http://www.mediafire.com/?vpfendgh082tu20

I've heard Rapid Jab doesn't work with Bionic's and Ftilt doesn't work with mine; also, scaling for regular Jab1 on both of them is questionable but definitely wrong on mine. Either one should be fine for Bair.

 

[C.R.Z]

soz i ment auto cancel, its 3.40 am here lol

thanks for the frame data on the odd hit box and everything else btw.

 

[Luxor]

Uh... it autocancels frames 1-8 and 15+. I understand though

 

[C.R.Z]

yeah everyone ignore what i said and just listen to luxor, i dont make sense when im over tierd lol

 

[Luxor]

The numbers are with me >.>

 

[iamjason8]

Kinda helpful but a video would really be better. :D

 

[Robfox]

Yea......,im still lost
help plz

 

[*CT*]

And I thought SH bairs were bad

 

[4Biddin]

This thread is soooooooooooooooooooo useful..........

 

[Zephil]

we really need a video... I really want to understand what is TKD saying

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

When Fox uses his bair he kicks with his foot, now his OTHER foot is just hanging down there, but it actually has a hitbox. Use that hitbox, is what TKD is saying.

 

[crifer]

But what si the reason exactly?
Does it have more shield hit stun?
Does it autocancel?

I can imagine, that spacing with that little range could be somehow difficult/not safe.

 

[Duo55]

I've been doing this for a little while against easier players. Works great. Hard to do on good players though because they typically understand the concept of fox getting zowned (yes, I spelled it that way on purpose) I usually use the "hit and run" strategy on those players though.

 

[Duo55]

we really need a video... I really want to understand what is TKD saying

But what si the reason exactly?
Does it have more shield hit stun?
Does it autocancel?

I can imagine, that spacing with that little range could be somehow difficult/not safe.

The whole point is to maximize the auto cancel, while still landing in the opposite direction the opponent is facing therefore making it safe because no matter how good they buffer you will still be able to spot dodge before they can turn around and grab. Sometimes if they wiff grab after a ps you can even punish them with a u tilt because of the auto cancel. Atleast thats what I do, and I think thats what he meant.

Edit just read it again, this is not what he meant. But I get what hes saying.

 

[Robfox]

yea so many different inputs
can we get a video please or an accurate response?

 

[Zephil]

I think I finally understand what TKD is saying.

In his last videos you can see what he is talking about

check 4:17 from this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SHW-czJIvA&feature=sub

As you can see, he hits the snake with the left foot and he follows it with a utilt

this can be really useful at low %s and is not hard to do, the reason why this was not discussed before is because I think nobody thought of using the other foot of fox's bair but this actually looks promising

great job TKD great find!!

 

[Robfox]

Unless im missing something huge that is not new.
I have wifi vids of a fox main doing the same multiple times back in late '08

 

[luke_atyeo]

its pretty much doing what I call a superman, which is hitting with the front of your body whilst doing a bair (I call it a superman cause I spam that **** with snakes bair) if that helps people visalize it.

might not be new, but tkd applies it well.

 

[Conviction]

I swear this is the second time one of our best players said something I said a year ago but now everyone decides to acknowledge it

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212572&highlight=Bair

Yea look I said it right there under my section for bair.

 

[luke_atyeo]

welcome to smashboards, join the club lol

 

[Conviction]

I know that has probably happened before. But my thing is last time I tried to tell people I said this before they told me I didn't.

 

[Cherry64]

Someone did that to me a little while ago :\ I thought it was neat and learned how to do it, Hard to do consistantly though

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Wow it is really simple what TKD is saying.

I agree with Meep how this is useful for covering 2 options.

Deluxe.