B-Reversal - New Technique and Guide [now with video and replay data]

[Mama]

Ah I get it. Sounds interesting. *bookmarks thread* I'll look into it and see if it I can apply this to my play style.

Also why Ademisk fails. B-Sticking = setting your C-stick to B moves.
Recoil specials = using your B-move to bounce backward. This cancels your momentum. That means you don't move back. Meaning, that even if you were getting B-sticking confused with Recoil Specials, you're still wrong.

Anyway, because you can turn around with your special move ON THE GROUND that sets it apart from its Melee predecessor. With all new techniques, this one is going to take time to develop and reach its potential. It may turn out to be really useful.

 

[Spyda]

this is dumb... this is like saying you can hold a charged smash if you just hold a longer... give me a break... anyone who has played the game for longer than 10 minutes knows you can do this already....

 

[Taymond]

I understand well that most "new tech" threads turn out to be a misinterpreted version of something old, but I do agree that this is clearly different than a turnaround B.

I am personally very glad to see this come to light, because it explains exactly what's occurring during b-sticking, and why it's possible to do it without the b-stick, as well. B-sticking involves initiating a turnaround B, so that you're now firing backwards with forwards momentum, and then performing a b-reversal, reversing your direction and momentum, so you're now firing forwards with backwards momentum.

It's good to be able to dissect better what exactly made b-sticking possible, and this certainly made that possible. It's use in the reverse dash neutral is pretty solid, too. Kudos.

 

[willtheshadow]

Good LORD! No wonder why so many people fear bringing up these new techniques!

For the record, what they're offering IS NOT MELEE'S B REVERSAL, nor is it the pile of uselessness that B-sticking is (just lose your C-stick smashes for the sake of moving slightly backwards as you PK fire? MOVE OVER, WAVEDASHING!!!).

Melee's B reversal involved holding the stick slightly in the direction you wanted to use the B move, thus making you move in that direction and/or lose momentum. This allows you to run, jump, spin around and neutral B WITHOUT LOSING ANY MOMENTUM.

And you want useful applications? Try "retreating" with Bowser, then suddenly leaping in the air, flipping around and burninating the crap out of your stunned opponent whose only remaining decision is whether they should DI forward or backward out of your fire breath.

I tested it with Bowser this morning, and although the timing is a bit tricky, once you get the hang of it, it works beautifully.

God, so many irritating trolls who won't even read the first post...

Yea really lol, I brought this up a week ago here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153970

I quit trying to explain it to poeple cause they just couldn't grasp it. And the trolling was begining. makes me look down on these forums.

Good to see some videos up.

 

[robman1]

ha... funny how the flames almost kept this info from being so widespread. You did talk about that turnaround in your thread...

 

[Maku]

Pretty cool technique..
I'm not going to argue with it..
but it won't replace the wavedash..
I think that's why everyone is truly mad..
HAHA

 

[BigRick]

Trying too hard...

Trying too hard...

 

[skrach8]

PEOPLE ARE U NOT LISTENING THIS IS NOTHING NEW. can we close this thread its called the reverse b. like stripesorbars said. THIS WAS FALCOS THING. check out any falco combo vid. lol can we close this thread.

 

[Taymond]

PEOPLE ARE U NOT LISTENING THIS IS NOTHING NEW. can we close this thread its called the reverse b. like stripesorbars said. THIS WAS FALCOS THING. check out any falco combo vid. lol can we close this thread.

All it takes is a minute in training mode on normal or 1/4 speed to realize that this is distinctly different from the turnaround B. Don't be so closed-minded, particularly when you're wrong, and consider actually trying out the technique before you make assumptions. Your attitude is completely unnecessary, especially if you haven't given the time to read all the posts explaining the inherent difference.

Attempting to do this in Melee just results in a projectile the direction you were already facing and DI-ing backwards. Additionally, this can be done on the ground, unlike the turnaround B.

The turnaround B still exists, no one's saying it doesn't. But THIS also exists. This executes a direction change after the special input has been given, and can be used both on the ground and in the air. What's more, it can be combined with the turnaround B to perform a retreating special.

Don't attack what you haven't put in the time to fully understand.

 

[skrach8]

i retract my statement.

but let me say this. i could not get it to work. so its not like i said it for no reason. i tried, i failed, then i assumed.

second im not closed minded. so you take back ur dumb a$$statement. I AT LEAST TRIED IT.

Fvckin noob.

 

[Taymond]

*laughs* I need to retract my statements when you viciously denounced a technique you couldn't even recreate to compare with the turnaround B? Because you assumed everyone who was carefully explaining exactly what the difference was and how it was useful was a complete moron who couldn't see that they were clearly doing the turnaround B, an assumption you were wrong about?

Because, rather than give anyone else the slightest amount of credit or respect and consider the possibility that maybe all this consensus that all said the same thing, that this was different for DISTINCT reasons, that were broken down to appease the opposition in this thread, you briefly tried it, did a turnaround B instead, and pretentiously came back proclaiming that we were all wrong?

No thanks, I'll leave my statements where they are, but I'm glad you see the difference now.

Your attitude was unnecessary then, and it's unnecessary now. You were wrong, don't attack me because of it.

 

[eyestrain92]

Since this hasn't been named here, and only one person seems to have stated it's exsistence, (However minor or subconsciously it is,) I saw we name it a Jewdo-Jump for the aerial move =P. You could also name it a Jewdo-Stop =P. HA HA, cheeky Judo/Jewdo Chop/Stop pun.

Also, enough hating. We can nickname already known techs or whatnot if we so feel like it. I am kind of disturbed how people are running around trying to get everything they believe is a new tech credited by themselves.

 

[kr3wman]

Wasn't this is Melee?

Comon people, research a little before you post!

 

[Taymond]

Wasn't this is Melee?

Comon people, research a little before you post!

Read the thread before you post. There are MANY posts detailing the difference between this technique and the turnaround B, which was in Melee. Please do not be so quick to denounce "new tech" threads as inconsequential and incorrect. While many, probably most, of them turn out to be misinterpretations of old techniques, not all of them are, and the ones that are genuinely different/new maneuvers should be investigated further, not denounced.

 

[RedZeshin]

This is a neat trick! I also found that, if I fudge it right, I can reverse+forward+b out of a dash with this trick as well.

I'm maining Ike right now, so it's pretty awesome to be running away from my enemy and suddenly use his dash attack in the opposite direction. Totally psyches out my opponents hehehe.

 

[tenyearwarranty]

i retract my statement.

but let me say this. i could not get it to work. so its not like i said it for no reason. i tried, i failed, then i assumed.

second im not closed minded. so you take back ur dumb a$$statement. I AT LEAST TRIED IT.

Fvckin noob.

Just because you couldn't pull it off, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Were you even able to comprehend the first post? You know, the part that explains why this and the turnaround B are different ways to accomplish the same thing? Ones faster, stops momentum, and is a lot harder to do.

Watch the videos.

 

[kr3wman]

Read the thread before you post. There are MANY posts detailing the difference between this technique and the turnaround B, which was in Melee. Please do not be so quick to denounce "new tech" threads as inconsequential and incorrect. While many, probably most, of them turn out to be misinterpretations of old techniques, not all of them are, and the ones that are genuinely different/new maneuvers should be investigated further, not denounced.

But since it is the same thing, basically, it is really new? Because of Brawl new mechaniques, it just evolved.

 

[skrach8]

Ok. lets get one thing clear. If i wasnt attacking you personally, then you have no right to call me out with statements like close-minded,. ok. Did you come up with the tech....... no. So this has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.To say i viciously attacked something is a slight exagerrrrrration.

Yet you continue to bash me, EVEN WHEN I ADMITTED TO BEING WRONG. EVEN WHEN I APOLOGIZED. So how about you stop with your ASSUMPTIONS.

But its ok. I can let things go, ill squash it. Keep you flaming to a minumum. K. Thanks man appreciate it.

Kids these days.

HEY BUDDY, are u gunna start talkin **** too. Did YOU NOT READ MY ABOVE POST. DID YOU. I stated i was wrong AND apologized for it. Im one of the biggest fans of BRAWL and want to see it succeed. But if you want to keep this going then lets do it.

Keep the hate coming!

noobs these days. got to protect one another. i understand. lol ok im done for real this time.

 

[Mama]

But since it is the same thing, basically, it is really new? Because of Brawl new mechaniques, it just evolved.

Mechanics*

and no its not something thats evolved. Its something thats new. There may be a small difference but that doesn't change the fact that it was new. Its doable on the ground. Thats a pretty big difference even if it seems small.

i retract my statement.

but let me say this. i could not get it to work. so its not like i said it for no reason. i tried, i failed, then i assumed.

second im not closed minded. so you take back ur dumb a$$statement. I AT LEAST TRIED IT.

Fvckin noob.

Tried, failed, assumed, and therefore failed for not even bothering to read what people were saying.

Just because you are incapable of doing something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It also doesn't mean that everyone is at your level of inadequacy. You could have came back and read other posts and then tried again rather than show how stupid you can be. Because you thought you were right without even bothering to check and make sure you showed that you are pretty closed minded.

You seem too sensitive. I think you should take some time off from the internet...

 

[kr3wman]

Mechanics*

and no its not something thats evolved. Its something thats new. There may be a small difference but that doesn't change the fact that it was new. Its doable on the ground. Thats a pretty big difference even if it seems small.

And*, it's*, that's*, It's*, that's*, There is*, It is* new, It's* and That's*.

See? I can do it too.

But if you think of it as something new because the turning around mechanics in Brawl are different, doesn't that sounds like an evolution of some sort?

 

[Mama]

And*, it's*, that's*, It's*, that's*, There is*, It is* new, It's* and That's*.

See? I can do it too.

But if you think of it as something new because the turning around mechanics in Brawl are different, doesn't that sounds like an evolution of some sort?

Lol. Well I rate apostrophes on a lower scale than typos since things like your/you're they're/there/their can change the meaning of something dramatically.

Anyhoo I only see it as something new because in Melee it was in the air. In Brawl theres a way to do it on the ground. The execution is different. In a way, yes its an evolved form of the turn around B of Melee. But simply writing it off as an evolution doesn't really do it any justice. I think we should take minor changes as something big, at least for a while, that way people will put them to use and we can see how far these things go.

 

[FightingGameGuy]

That's something I've been wondering about, though. It's kind of hard to B-stick a neutral without doing a down/side-B instead. Plus, I haven't seen any chargeable B's get charged by holding the c-stick in the given direction. It just does the attack.

You can charge by immediately pressing and holding B after entering the input with the C-stick. For whatever reason, its also much easier to get the neutral to work if you push the C-stick slowly directly to the d-back diagonal on the C-stick.

 

[Taymond]

kr3wman, you're completely missing the point.

This isn't the new version of the turnaround B. The turnaround B is still present in exactly the same form.

This is a different technique. It still involves turning around, yes, but that similarity alone does not equate it to the turnaround B. It is entirely different in the manner of execution and in effect. It produces a different effect. You really need to understand that. It's not a different way to produce the same effect, it's a whole new effect.

The turn around B reverses direction and preserves momentum, this reverses both. What's more, through a combination of these two, distinct techniques, we are able to perform Recoil Specials, which are certainly a notable new tech that cannot be dismissed.

This tech is an integral part in the Recoil Special. Without it, there wouldn't be Recoil Specials. This is NEW.

Oh, and lastly, skrach8, not only did you never actually apologize, the unfounded attitude of undeserved arrogance that your first post reeked of remained in your supposedly humbling retraction. You acted, and are still acting, like a child. You were wrong, and you behaved wrong. You made assumptions you should not have made and overreacted to those assumptions. You insulted the intelligence of everyone supporting this tech in your denial of its existence. You were, and still are, in the wrong, and unless you change your attitude anytime soon, you will remain there.

This is no way to behave in this or any community.

 

[-sonny-]

Why did you write so much about this?

I'm sure that anybody who even slightly cares about Smash already knows this. It's not complicated at all, and it was definitely a waste of time to write so much about it, sorry.

 

[Taymond]

Why did you write so much about this?

I'm sure that anybody who even slightly cares about Smash already knows this. It's not complicated at all, and it was definitely a waste of time to write so much about it, sorry.

No, not every smasher knows about this, because it is something new. It may not be intrinsically complicated, but it is a genuinely unique, useful new technique. If this isn't the kind of thing that should be well documented, what is? People want new ATs, but when they're given seriously valid, useful new techniques, they say this.

This allows the Recoil Special to happen, and it has its own practical uses alone, as well. It is helpful knowledge for any projectile character, and many others as well. This is the Brawl Tactical Discussion, and this is a newly discovered tactic. This is exactly what this section is for!

Do you want to see nothing but "you can tilt if you press the same way on both sticks" and "i figured out how to roll" threads? This section finally gets a worthwhile new tech thread, and you disparate it? What is this section even for, then, if not this?

 

[SrL04]

Guys it's simple really...

It's not turn the opposite direction then pressing B like melee

It's pressing B then turning around

Melee NEVER had this

 

[Chrono Centaur]

And what exactly does this do besides open up a small number of mindgames? :<

I mean, it seems pointless, if I just want to do a B move against the foe, I'll turn around and do the B move.

 

[Taymond]

And what exactly does this do besides open up a small number of mindgames? :<

I mean, it seems pointless, if I just want to do a B move against the foe, I'll turn around and do the B move.

It's faster, it can be done straight out of a dash, it can be done on both the ground and the air, it reverses your momentum in the air, it can be combined with a normal turnaround B to perform a Recoil Special without B-Sticking.

 

[willtheshadow]

lol some poeple just dont get it even with a video demonstration. Let them be.

 

[nightSN]

this is a manual bstick LOL good for people who dont want to change there cstick to a bstick

 

[skrach8]

lol ok man, i said i was done. i mean ive dropped it, and it seems like ur the only one that cares now......

But anyway are there any other "recoil mechanics" techs people have discovered?

 

[Chaosblade77]

And what exactly does this do besides open up a small number of mindgames? :<

I mean, it seems pointless, if I just want to do a B move against the foe, I'll turn around and do the B move.

Wasn't that the point in half of the AT's in Melee? You know, the ones that didn't make it into Brawl that people complain about? Wavedashing comes to mind, it was used far more for mindgames than it was just to move around the stage.

I agree with Taymond completely. "NOT ENOUGH ATS" and then all the sudden one comes up and people denounce it by saying it's nothing new, it's too simple, or some other random complaint, regardless of the fact it's useful.

Some people just won't be content until they have to go into training mode and practice daily just to keep themselves at the pinnacle of their game, and because even the newer advanced techniques don't require that, there is nothing that is a true "Advanced Technique" yet, I guess.

 

[Jewdo]

So how about them names? Does "B-Reversal" stick, or can we do better?

Names that describe the technique are preferred ("L-canceling," for example, pretty much described itself), but cool and creative ones will work too ("wavedashing," for example, wasn't exactly shaped like a sine curve). Post some ideas!

 

[lonelytraveler8]

I've been avoiding this particular forum because of the large amount of nothing that gets posted. I didn't feel like reading all 5 pages of this, but I skimmed the first page and read this last one. It's very apparent to me that this is indeed a new Technique. Brawl is seriously slowed down in comparison to Melee and anything to speed up gameplay should be highly valued. Unfortunately, since I main Olimar and Meta Knight, this won't do much for me.

I was a Falco player in Melee and retreating with SHL was rather difficult because it was easy to mess up your momentum or do the side-B attack by accident. With this idea, there should be no mistakes in which attack is to be used since the button input for the attack comes before the button input for the direction change.

Also, the video clearly shows the difference in speed in using a B-Reversal out of a dash. It was ridiculously noticeable in 1/4 speed, but seemed almost glitchy in normal speed. This may not have any applications as wavedashing, and only certain characters will make great use of it (such as Falco), but B-sticking is really the same way. B-sticking and B-Reversals are both useless to Meta Knight, but Falco makes great use of B-Reversals and Lucas is unbelievable with B-sticking.

 

[Ørion]

I disagree with the people who say this is B-sticking, its is completely different. This doesnt push you back, it changes your direction as far as I can tell.

 

[robman1]

hmm so the samus' can now retreat, pull off this b-reversal to put the foe in a stun and go from there....

pretty cool!

 

[RedZeshin]

This is an awesome technique, kinda hard to time but DEFINITELY deserves the title of AT.

One other interesting thing to add to it. If you properly time your release of the control stick before you do the b-reversal, you can also do your forward+b in the reverse direction. Which is absolute sweetness.

An example of the use would be kinda like so: I've been playing Ike. Sometimes somebody will be chasing me across the stage, and I'll just be running like mad away. And then, in an unexpectedly sweet twist, I suddenly use my forward+b in the opposite direction and do a dash slash at my enemy. And it happens automatically, as if I went from an escaping dash to a complete turnaround dash-slash in the opposite direction. No lag, no waiting for poor slowpoke Ike to twist around. He just gets up offadat thing and does it. Surprises teh poops outta enemies, even the CPU hehehe.

Much kudos to whoever found this.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

This thread deserves a bump. I definitely plan on learning more about this technique, especially since it does not require sacrifice in controller configuration.

 

[Taymond]

@Ørion, this is indeed different, however it is a component of Recoil Specials, commonly referred to by the blanket term "B-Sticking." Without this, there would be no Recoil Specials.

@RedZeshin, if it had been unclear that this can be used on more than just a neutral B, then thanks for pointing it out. It can, in fact, be used on any B move, if executed properly, though not all Specials on all characters have a pronounced/possible/worthwhile effect.

@Jewdo, as far as naming goes... I don't personally have any problem with B-Reversal, although it could perhaps be better. We could attempt to tie it directly to the turnaround B with something like "Late Input Turnaround B" (just random example), though that would probably be a bad move, as it is difficult enough already to convince people of the distinction between the two. How many more words are there for the action of turning around? Reverse seems like the next best choice in line, after the turnaround B, which his clearly already taken.

 

[Qinopio]

Hey, this is great. B-sticking, turnaround neutral Bs, and B-reversals. Three distinct things to do with just specials, more than the one in Melee. Brawl is shaping up nicely.