Balanced Brawl Public Preview *GENESIS UPDATE*

[Amazing Ampharos]

We are not using project SA in the near future. It's an amazing program, but it's not necessary for the scope of our project. It has some other disadvantages too that we aren't too keen on adapting (telling users they need over 40 files in correct directory structure on their SD to play your game doesn't sound like a good idea). We're still keeping track of it though; you never know what the future will hold.

 

[Linkshot]

Ah. Yeah, that would be a pain.

Well, I hope the matchups are looking good at this point.

Have or are you planning to weaken Olimar's throw damage?

 

[codfish92]

@ sa thing

not to mention how easy it would be for someone to change. even easier than the code.

 

[deepseadiva]

So, I've been in love with this project ever since the start - despite having never played it.

I still wanted to support you guys in one way or another, so I've come up with this:


Hopefully it'll stir up attention if people would like to put it in their signatures.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

That...is beautiful. Great job on the mural thing!

 

[A2ZOMG]

By the way, did anyone mention Snake's D-throw yet? I mean seriously, that move is insanely broken.

There are several characters that can essentially get "infinited" rather easily by that throw since their getups can all be punished on reaction. At least 11 characters from what I heard.

Aside from that, it's still insanely broken. I mean come on, it does 12%. Say Snake gets a grab. 1 pummel, then he D-throws. Then he regrabs, does two pummels, D-throws again. Then he F-tilts. That does almost 51% (accounting for F-tilt decrease in damage of course). Something like that...is just seriously wrong. Even if his U-tilt was weakened, that's still a half of some characters stocks, or a third of the stock of heavier ones.

I mean come on, it's a fair bit harder for G&W (although still completely viable) to techchase regrab for only 6% a throw. And G&W's pummel is slower. And then there is the plethora of other throws in this game that don't have any guaranteed setups that also do half the damage of Snake's D-throw. It just isn't right...especially since it outdamages his other throws.

 

[Linkshot]

You bring up a great point about Snake. If possible at this point (I think it is), change the damage to 4? You're only setting them down, heh.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

if that's the case... snake is not going to be on my top 4 to use lol, I'll just use the new ike/the new link, and the new falcon gg'z.

 

[Steeler]

when i asked AA about changing the dthrow, he told me you cannot edit the snake dthrow to make it techable (idk about project SA, but that's irrelevant right now)

which would have been my solution

i guess you could lower the damage to even it out but it'll still be just as easy for snake to read the get up options and doesn't really fix the problem of "infinites"

 

[Linkshot]

From a realistic point of view, there should be no damage on dThrow, and more damage on the pummel to even it out.

Snake's dThrow puts opponents into a special position. With 0% damage on it, he can only use it to control instead of dealing damage.

 

[Eldiran]

You can only continuously catch people with it if you correctly predict their actions, right? So... what's wrong with how it is? I understand wanting a small damage reduction, but even the pros can't predict their enemies' movements 100% of the time. Or am I missing something?

 

[MysticKenji]

I still wanted to support you guys in one way or another, so I've come up with this:

awesome :D

You can only continuously catch people with it if you correctly predict their actions, right? So... what's wrong with how it is? I understand wanting a small damage reduction, but even the pros can't predict their enemies' movements 100% of the time. Or am I missing something?

Snake can "infinite" some characters by grabbing them out of their get up on REACTION.

So, if I'm Snake and I dthrow, i can just wait for you to do something and then grab and dthrow you.

I think the no damage idea might work...or get-ups could be altered.
Either work.

 

[Eldiran]

Snake can "infinite" some characters by grabbing them out of their get up on REACTION.

So, if I'm Snake and I dthrow, i can just wait for you to do something and then grab and dthrow you.

I think the no damage idea might work...or get-ups could be altered.
Either work.

So, some character's get-up attacks can be grabbed through before they get a chance to put out a hitbox? If that's the case I can totally understand changing it.

EDIT: Also, this banner is awesome. Thanks Menos!

 

[codfish92]

So, some character's get-up attacks can be grabbed through before they get a chance to put out a hitbox? If that's the case I can totally understand changing it.

EDIT: Also, this banner is awesome. Thanks Menos!

it's not that they can get grabbed before the hitboxs appear, its that snake can just shield, then grab them when the invincibility frames end.

 

[hotgarbage]

meno strikes again!

*bows*

 

[Eldiran]

it's not that they can get grabbed before the hitboxs appear, its that snake can just shield, then grab them when the invincibility frames end.

Hmm. I must admit I'm a little skeptical this warrants a change so extreme as giving the throw 0% damage. After all, you can choose to (a) roll backward (b) roll forward (c) attack or (d) wait, whenever you are grabbed by this. Snake can only follow up on one of those choices, really, so it's far from inescapable.

I confess I haven't been up against a good Snake, however, so I could easily be underestimating the problem. From my viewpoint, however, I think something like nerfing the damage to 6% or so would be more than enough.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

omg... if you nerf snakes down throw like that guys snake mainers will hate us before the end of time comes... and even as your posting this now I'm hating it and I don't main snake... Ugh keep snakes dthrow the same lol your fault for being predicted in the first place

 

[Stealth Raptor]

renegade speaks the truth, the dthrow is only powerful when the prediction is good

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's not even a matter of prediction when Snake D-throws several characters. There are some characters that are very easy to techchase because they have bad getups that can be REACTED to. Either they telegraph their getup attack, have a slow roll, or even both.

And by the way, it is MUCH easier for Snake to "predict" with his grab when you consider his grab is fast, decently ranged, and involves much less commitment than Ganondorf's Flame Choke. See, in order for Ganondorf to actually techchase someone, he has to Flame Choke almost slightly in advance due to the startup lag on his move. G&W often also has to choose a direction in advance to successfully regrab some characters due to the speed of techrolls being superior in general. Not that way for Snake. He can almost always watch which way they roll, and he only has to start his grab up when he gets to where his opponent is.

And the point is Snake's reward for predicting correctly (which is not even that hard) is ridiculously high, and doesn't even make sense. Snake basically always gets a followup from his D-throw because it's that good. And it's stupid that it outdamages his other throws (and 90% of throws in this game for that matter).

Basically give Snakes a reason to use their other throws. D-throw by its unique properties is already an extremely good attack, the best of its kind for techchase setups. It's not fair that this superior throw outdamages the other techchase setups in this game.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

how about if we speed up some of the characters "tech rolls"... wouldn't that solve the issue?

 

[A2ZOMG]

No, that doesn't solve the issue at all unless you make tech rolls extremely broken and lame. You still basically get predicted half the time and lose half your stock whenever you get predicted.

If you're saying it's the fault of the player getting predicted (which is true to some extent), obviously the solution is tone down the reward of Snake correctly predicting in the first place.

 

[TheUltimateMario]

Meh, i like Brawl just the way it is.

 

[GHNeko]

Meh, i like Brawl just the way it is.

Then why are you in this thread? <_>

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Meh, i like Brawl just the way it is.

Well good for you...

This is good because chaingrabs (for the most part) are not broken. This is excellent! And characters are much more balanced. This is great. Good job, guys!

edit: ninja'd. and i agree with GHNeko.

 

[Suntan Luigi]

Snake's Dthrow is not that broken..


What really needs to be done is more people putting links to this thread in their sigs!

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I have done just that! It's a really really well done banner, MenoUnderwater, and I appreciate that you'd take your time to do something like that

I know Zard has a really difficult time versus Snake because of the Dthrow tech chase. I think it's something like he can't roll back and get behind Snake, his forward roll is beyond easy to chase, and his getup attack is quite laggy. I don't think anything can be done to fix the throw without being a severe nerf to Snake and/or changing game mechanics. A small compensation on damage is the best I think you can do to make it less devastating for some. I don't know.

Keep up the great work, you two.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

how do I put that Bbrawl into my sig?

 

[GHNeko]

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7601/screenshotqej.png

:V

 

[rPSIvysaur]

How did Mr. Escalator do his Sig? Because I want to do that one

 

[GHNeko]

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7601/screenshotqej.png

:V

V:

If you want the picture to be clickable...

then...

[:VURL="http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239604"][:VIMG]http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/MenoUnderwater/BalancedBrawlSig-1.png[/IMG][/url]

Remove the :V

 

[Renegade TX2000]

"testing Sig" wth lol hold up brb

 

[Rykoshet]

Considering dedede has the same thing except with the techable variable with a better, faster, lengthier grab with a better shield, the dthrow is fine.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

mehh why, Stupid signature "Gives up"

 

[GHNeko]

Just preview the signature and if it shows up right, you'll be good.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Testing in posts that short doesn't help. I believe you need to reach a certain size of a post to actually have your signature show up. That's just what it's seemed like to me.

If you can see it in the preview, then you have it.

 

[Linkshot]

I still think Snake's dThrow needs to do less damage than G&W's.

 

[NintenJoe]

the problem with your suggestion, Linkshot, is that it will definately decreases the amount of snakes supporting this project.

 

[Linkshot]

It's not like it completely destroys the strategy. It just takes longer to rack up damage with it.

Whenever anybody gets a nerf, the amount of mains supporting the project that nerfed it will drop.

This nerf is necessary, and if they don't like Snake enough for Snake (as opposed to his skewed dThrow strategy), they can move over to G&W.

 

[Scipion121212]

Considering dedede has the same thing except with the techable variable with a better, faster, lengthier grab with a better shield, the dthrow is fine.

If I got it right, DDD do NOT have an infinites, because his grab is techable.
Snake DOES have infinites, due to his Dthrow being not techable.

Thats why this is NOT fine.
It´s regular infinite. I am not saying way to solve it, just pointing out.

 

[Rykoshet]

If I got it right, DDD do NOT have an infinites, because his grab is techable.

Run to where they teched, block the first thing they do, regrab them. If they attack, shield, or dodge, basically ANYTHING other than immediately roll away twice (which you can punish with dash attack anyway) theyre getting regrabbed. Dedede's range makes up for the fact that you can tech his down throw, easily, especially considering it comes out 2 frames faster than snake's.

It's not an infinite if it relies on you reading someone correctly, whether it be prediction or reaction. What that means is you got read...