Balanced Brawl Standard Release

[JOE!]

yeah, ICs are definatley in the "worse off" category comparitivley.

Without gaurenteed infinites, they just arent as devestating in some MUs.

theyre still good none the less tho

 

[blakinola]

yeah, ICs are definatley in the "worse off" category comparitivley.

Without gaurenteed infinites, they just arent as devestating in some MUs.

theyre still good none the less tho

I'm okay with this

 

[SaltyKracka]

I think UTDZac has it in the bag if that's the tournament I think we're talking about. Who knows, though. Some "low tier" character from vBrawl might come out of nowhere and show him his lack of experience versus them or something. However, I have faith in Zac.

Also, Ice Climbers are the bottom half of my tier list. By bottom half, I mean bottom 10 characters.

Assuming he's going to meet someone at or near his skill level, ICs get pretty **** ***** by Ike and Zelda, just to name two that come to mind. Mario screws them up well too.

 

[Fuujin]

Hey I just downloaded Bbrawl and I think you guys did an awesome job with it.
I use Zelda/Sheik and thought I'd put my in 2 cents in.

I really like the changes you made with Zelda I like the new direction Farore's Win hits in, it's great for setting up u tilt or u smash and I'd imagine it could be really useful in wind canceling.
I also really like how she isn't helpless after using Din's Fire in the air.
(I think you forgot to post this on the changelist)
Most Zelda players probably wouldn't find it useful but I use it when I'm returning from the upper left or right side of the stage when my opponent is coming in for an attack. In regular brawl it could be easily blocked and punished but she has more guard breaking options in bbrawl.
The speed on her F tilt is really helpful though its seems alot weaker in power and her back throw used to sometimes send lighter opponents to an angle where they could be killed.
I don't under stand why the angle of her D smash was changed, it was really helpful when it semi spiked against match ups like Olimar, Falco and Marth.

As far as Sheik, I like the new forward smash and other buffs my only complaint with her is her F tilt.
It was one of sheiks bets moves, It was really helpful for building up damage on characters like Snake, Ike, Dedede and other heavy weights.
I understand you had to change it for Fox and Wolf but would it have been possible to make it more like Fox's or Mario's U tilts to a point where it combos but doesn't lock?

Like I said before you guys did an awesome job with it I just need people to play with online.
Kinda hard when the computers are attacking the sandbag at Wifi Training Room.


So if anyone wants to play lemme know.

 

[Linkshot]

Zelda fTilt is weaker so that it combos into uSmash and uTilt.
Zelda dSmash has an angle change so it can't be teched.

 

[Fuujin]

I see with the F tilt, but I never really had a problem with people teching the d smash it hardly ever happened.

I still say shes better off in bbrawl though.

 

[Fox Hater]

It'll be a G&W mirror match.

true, i will even bet on that one

 

[BSP]

I have one sonic question: What's the new knockback on his U smash hits supposed to do?

 

[Linkshot]

Trap them better, I believe.

 

[krazyzyko]

Hey guys will you maybe at some point consider to add Roy, Mew2 and Jin like they did in Brawl+?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Hey guys will you maybe at some point consider to add Roy, Mew2 and Jin like they did in Brawl+?

As Thinkaman said, in a competitive panorame, textures aren't recomended (that should include any PSA).

But for casual playing, it should be okay.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The Ice Climbers are really the only character I have no idea where they are going to place on the tier list.

In theory they are broken, which is why I put them high on my tier list, but I guess we'll have to wait and see about that.

Although my impression is even without the infinites, the Ice Climbers have a lot of stuff going for them. They have a great camp game, and several stupidly safe attacks that do a lot of damage as long as they don't get separated.

There are two other characters I'm less sure about than others. Kirby and Pikachu. When I initially ranked them on my tier list, I put them in the lower half of my list. It's mainly because I probably was more hyped about certain more obviously improved characters, so my question is what other people think of them.

As for Pikachu however, I actually do have some potential reasons why I think he could be lower ranked, simply because he's terrible at KOs, and kinda reliant on the CG to do good damage in certain matchups. His air game is pretty situational in many ways due to terrible landing lag, and his projectile is yet another that is easily avoided or powershielded on reaction (although it has the advantage of pressuring most people who edge camp, although it doesn't work as well against characters like G&W or Mario).

As for Kirby, the only thing I can really say about him is that very little that has significantly changed about him, but many characters who were below him have really been buffed. He didn't have very many matchups that were **** in his favor due to his relatively limited options for dealing with camping, so if anything, it's pretty apparent that his matchups overall got worse, but how much worse?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Getting a code dump here.

EDIT: Gecko 1.9.1. No code dump... but NOTHING changed.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Hey guys will you maybe at some point consider to add Roy, Mew2 and Jin like they did in Brawl+?

if you are asking about the textures you can do that yourself. if you are talking about the actual new movesets, that is really changing the game at a fundamental level, adding in new chars to balance. since bbrawl is designed to be brawl with a new level of balance, which is also supposed to replace brawl in tourneys, adding new chars makes it so it isnt really brawl anymore

 

[dragoncrescent]

Hey! I'm normally a bit of a lurker around the boards, but I just have to drop by and say you guys did an excellent job with Balanced Brawl. Ganon is a beast, and surprisingly fun to play as now. My main has always been Sonic and Pokemon Trainer, and I really love what you've done with them both. Sonic's Spring feels like such a natural move, I can't believe the designers didn't work it that way. I've always felt he had a schizophrenic play style that was fun, but ultimately unrewarding when you were utterly incapable of killing someone.

The Pokemon aren't really too different, although I can't tell you how much I appreciate Ivysaur being harder to ledgeguard now! I don't use Pokemon Change too much, except to dodge Final Smashes when we have them on, so I can't comment on its apparent speed-up. Squirtle's Water Gun feels just a little bit more useful. I think it would benefit from having just a little more push, or perhaps doing a tiny bit of damage. It really seems like a move he should be able to mix into more situations.

Anyways, I was just wondering if there was an established tier set yet for BBrawl? I would love to see where everyone has placed. If no one can really compose one, I guess that means you guys have succeeded! ^__^

 

[The Milk Monster]

Anyways, I was just wondering if there was an established tier set yet for BBrawl? I would love to see where everyone has placed. If no one can really compose one, I guess that means you guys have succeeded! ^__^

As of right now, tier lists are strictly personal opinion for BBrawl, the metagame is far from evolving, match ups are still being tossed around, etc etc.

Think, let me know if you need some help with match ups at any time, I wanna' help with BBrawl any way possible.

 

[PKNintendo]

The Ice Climbers are really the only character I have no idea where they are going to place on the tier list.

In theory they are broken, which is why I put them high on my tier list, but I guess we'll have to wait and see about that.

Although my impression is even without the infinites, the Ice Climbers have a lot of stuff going for them. They have a great camp game, and several stupidly safe attacks that do a lot of damage as long as they don't get separated.

There are two other characters I'm less sure about than others. Kirby and Pikachu. When I initially ranked them on my tier list, I put them in the lower half of my list. It's mainly because I probably was more hyped about certain more obviously improved characters, so my question is what other people think of them.

As for Pikachu however, I actually do have some potential reasons why I think he could be lower ranked, simply because he's terrible at KOs, and kinda reliant on the CG to do good damage in certain matchups. His air game is pretty situational in many ways due to terrible landing lag, and his projectile is yet another that is easily avoided or powershielded on reaction (although it has the advantage of pressuring most people who edge camp, although it doesn't work as well against characters like G&W or Mario).

As for Kirby, the only thing I can really say about him is that very little that has significantly changed about him, but many characters who were below him have really been buffed. He didn't have very many matchups that were **** in his favor due to his relatively limited options for dealing with camping, so if anything, it's pretty apparent that his matchups overall got worse, but how much worse?

I think your forgetting Pikachu's QAC. (Quick attack cancel) It makes his aerials lagless and makes him a great (and annoying) damage builder.

 

[SaltyKracka]

I think your forgetting Pikachu's QAC. (Quick attack cancel) It makes his aerials lagless and makes him a great (and annoying) damage builder.

Meh, I've seen QAC. It really only works with nair, and is somewhat predictable too.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

qac is so easily predicted and punished ._. every character has a move that ***** it. its good in short spurts, but it isnt something that makes pikachu omg good, its just a little support tool

 

[Mit]

For Pikachu I just picture Anther and how he can now do better against top tier characters due to their nerfs. Sure he can't chaingrab in BBrawl, but I don't really see that as an essential move when watching Anther play high-ranking tourney matches.

 

[ぱみゅ]

to Thinkaman/Amazing Ampharos:
please, PLEASE, make the change list complete and detailed.
You missed some important details like the boundaries on Spear Pillar/Hyrule temple, and some effects like Din's Fire no freefall...
Would be known if played, obviously, but a complete changelist should include every detail like those...

EDIT: I've just noticed the stages ones... my bad ^^; still, Zelda's one is not, and I'm just wondering if some details like that could be lost in proccess, not hatin' =)

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

With Zelda now, with the change of the hitbox on Faeore's Wind, I've been playing with just teleporting around the groundlike some sort of psychopath boss from a SNES game. Towards them. Away from them. Diagonal teleports to mix up the spacing. Straight down. Just pop around until you teleport on them and get an Up Smash.

 

[Linkshot]

I think most of us agree that what Sonic lacked was better damage building.

I personally love what I have done with my Sonic.PAC. It just feels so natural now, and it's far from overpowered. Although, I've changed a bunch of Sonic's "fundamentals" (as in, I added hitboxes where there were none before).

To capitalise in a bBrawl approach, I think his Spin Dash should have some more damage on each hit.

Whoops. Got distracted.

What else...eh...I dunno.

 

[dansal]

I personally hope that, if and when the get the code to enable heavy/super armor, they mess around with Sonic's spin dash / spin charge (side B trips, down B has heavy armor?), among other experiments.

 

[Linkshot]

They won't add hitboxes, I'm sorry.

Chaos Sonic is merely to have fun.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Getting a code dump here.

EDIT: Gecko 1.9.1. No code dump... but NOTHING changed.

I'm using the PAL version and Gecko 1.9.1. No changes happen; everything is still the same game.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Hey! I'm normally a bit of a lurker around the boards, but I just have to drop by and say you guys did an excellent job with Balanced Brawl. Ganon is a beast, and surprisingly fun to play as now. My main has always been Sonic and Pokemon Trainer, and I really love what you've done with them both. Sonic's Spring feels like such a natural move, I can't believe the designers didn't work it that way. I've always felt he had a schizophrenic play style that was fun, but ultimately unrewarding when you were utterly incapable of killing someone.

The Pokemon aren't really too different, although I can't tell you how much I appreciate Ivysaur being harder to ledgeguard now! I don't use Pokemon Change too much, except to dodge Final Smashes when we have them on, so I can't comment on its apparent speed-up. Squirtle's Water Gun feels just a little bit more useful. I think it would benefit from having just a little more push, or perhaps doing a tiny bit of damage. It really seems like a move he should be able to mix into more situations.

Anyways, I was just wondering if there was an established tier set yet for BBrawl? I would love to see where everyone has placed. If no one can really compose one, I guess that means you guys have succeeded! ^__^

It's good that you're enjoying the game; I hope you continue to play and develop experiences. I will say that with PT you should explore using Pokemon Change more; it's a staple of PT play. As per Water Gun, we recognize it's a fairly limited move in Squirtle's moveset, but Squirtle is such a good character already that we were scared to do anything with it other than make one of its less useful moves just a bit more handy. Also, FYI, adding damage to Water Gun or F.L.U.D.D. results in completely ridiculous damage output. I think a clean hit from fully charged water gun would do at least 16% even if we set Water Gun to the minimum damage of 1%... I remember setting F.L.U.D.D. to do 16% as a mechanics experiment and being blown away when a random squirt did over 200% damage to my opponent.

As per Sonic discussion, not just from you but from everyone, I want to say that it's really easy to underrate the less obvious changes, but it's a mistake. The damage improvement to dash attack is something I find immensely important to Sonic; you could easily forget it while playing, but Sonic's dash attack is so easy to land that I find it can really lead to me getting kills much earlier as Sonic just because I'm doing so much more damage in the long run from my random weak dash attacks I like to pepper enemies when whenever I get a free shot at it. Of course, the spring really is too fun; I'm glad to hear someone else having as much fun with it as we have (also, your description of the type of character Sonic is wasn't far from how I'd describe him).

to Thinkaman/Amazing Ampharos:
please, PLEASE, make the change list complete and detailed.
You missed some important details like the boundaries on Spear Pillar/Hyrule temple, and some effects like Din's Fire no freefall...
Would be known if played, obviously, but a complete changelist should include every detail like those...

EDIT: I've just noticed the stages ones... my bad ^^; still, Zelda's one is not, and I'm just wondering if some details like that could be lost in proccess, not hatin' =)

Thinkaman is the one who has to update that list, and he has been EXTREMELY busy this week (I think he'll be free Sunday if he has any energy left to do anything but sleep for 24 hours). Sorry I haven't posted more; I don't have any excuse but laziness. The Din's Fire thing is the only omission I can think of, and it is 100% my fault. Sorry about that.

With Zelda now, with the change of the hitbox on Faeore's Wind, I've been playing with just teleporting around the groundlike some sort of psychopath boss from a SNES game. Towards them. Away from them. Diagonal teleports to mix up the spacing. Straight down. Just pop around until you teleport on them and get an Up Smash.

We were never able to get anything but impractical gimmicks out of Farore's Wind, but it's good that you're exploring it more thoroughly. It's always good to see innovative use of mechanics! Let us know if you are able to really develop it into a core, reliable part of Zelda's game; that could be pretty cool.

I'm using the PAL version and Gecko 1.9.1. No changes happen; everything is still the same game.

My best guess is that you're lacking the gameconfig.txt file. Do you have it? Also, what messages is gecko reporting to you; does it claim to be loading a code file at all? If not, you may have something improperly named or in a wrong directory structure.

 

[BSP]

I think most of us agree that what Sonic lacked was better damage building.

I personally love what I have done with my Sonic.PAC. It just feels so natural now, and it's far from overpowered. Although, I've changed a bunch of Sonic's "fundamentals" (as in, I added hitboxes where there were none before).

To capitalise in a bBrawl approach, I think his Spin Dash should have some more damage on each hit.

Whoops. Got distracted.

What else...eh...I dunno.

I agree with this.

 

[Fuujin]

guess the majority of my post goes ignored >_>

 

[uhmuzing]

I gotta say that I absolutely loved the showcase videos!

 

[SuSa]

For once, I won't troll the thread.

Is there any reason to not change Jigglypuff's shieldbreak? Instantly dying because I shielded vs a Marth isn't..... what I'd call fair for the matchup.

Given that rids of Jiggly's only decent defensive option against Marth (and others)...because..she can't really use it much..

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

For once, I won't troll the thread.

Is there any reason to not change Jigglypuff's shieldbreak? Instantly dying because I shielded vs a Marth isn't..... what I'd call fair for the matchup.

Given that rids of Jiggly's only decent defensive option against Marth (and others)...because..she can't really use it much..

Come now, how often do you really get your shield broken against Marth or anyone? This is being silly.

Also, I'm not ignoring any posts, but responding to everyone is just unreasonable...

 

[Thinkaman]

I'm back; I jsut read through the posts up to here and will respond eventually.

Couch Guy broke my Jiggs shield once this week with Marth

 

[Big O]

Since Jiggs weighs so little I don't think it matters too much. After all vs. Marth or DK (who both have high shieldbreaking potential) if her shield breaks past 30% it's a lost stock anyway.

 

[Popcornio]

Would replacing X07 (Online Practice Stage) file change the WiFi waiting room stage from that annoying Famacon Melody?

 

[Linkshot]

No.

And the Famicom Medley is amazing. It's a code that changed WiFi Training Room to direct to Famicom Medley instead of Online Practice Stage.

If you want to change the music, rewrite the GCT to a different song, or file-replace Famicom Medley.

And there's only one Famicom Medley. I don't know what "annoying one" you're talking about


If you're THAT dead set on removing Famicom Medley, I suggest Melee BREAK THE TARGETS

 

[Popcornio]

No.

And the Famicom Medley is amazing. It's a code that changed WiFi Training Room to direct to Famicom Medley instead of Online Practice Stage.

If you want to change the music, rewrite the GCT to a different song, or file-replace Famicom Medley.

And there's only one Famicom Medley. I don't know what "annoying one" you're talking about


If you're THAT dead set on removing Famicom Medley, I suggest Melee BREAK THE TARGETS

The song got real old, real fast for me.

Well, I don't know what part of the GCT takes care of the music for the stage or what I would change the GCT to.

(I have another song in mind, but I do use Break The Targets for the Menu music )

 

[TP]

Famicon Medley is the one great failure of Balanced Brawl. They really dropped the ball on that one.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I like the Famicon Medley... I think it's way better than the WiFi training room

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The song got real old, real fast for me.

Well, I don't know what part of the GCT takes care of the music for the stage or what I would change the GCT to.

(I have another song in mind, but I do use Break The Targets for the Menu music )

There's a one line code that we used to set that track (because Famicom Medley is awesome). You can change the last four digits of it to use any track in Brawl; you just need a good list of the addresses for each song (easy to find), and it should be pretty easy to figure out.

The alternative to us picking a track we liked (and, of course, we were going to pick one from a stage that was going to be banned so in tournament no song would be on two stages) was us leaving the WiFi Training music which has a super short loop and is generally a really obnoxious track.