• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Balanced Brawl Standard Release

Status
Not open for further replies.

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Another option is to time travel on your Wii. Just set your Wii's internal clock forward a day (or more), and Brawl will purge any content from smash service. Then turn off smash service, and feel free to correct your clock at your leisure.

Of course, what A2ZOMG suggests works fine too. I have a lot of replays so I generally prefer my method though.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Uh what Joe? I don't remember exactly what you're talking about.

Random thoughts on characters:

Pit should have a small buff to F-tilt. I see this move as being fairly important in a lot of his harder matchups, due to the massive range he has on this particular move (or buff Dash attack perhaps).

Wolf's F-smash can be escaped by DIing the first hit Up, which well...sucks. If the first hit can be viably changed so that it does not induce tumble (and get DIed as a result), that probably would be helpful for Wolf.

Mario probably does deserve slight tonedowns on his KO power from the standard release, but in exchange, I would appreciate some angle changes on his Jab hitboxes to make it more reliable for Jab canceling to emphasize his ability to combo. The way Mario and Luigi's Jab work is that they sweetspot at the fist, and sourspot at the arms. Luigi's sweetspot hitbox has priority over the sourspot, so it's easier for him to get optimal frame advantage than Mario, whose sourspot has priority over sweetspot, so Luigi's Jab1 is generally much better than Mario's (especially since it has more range wtf), although Mario does have a better Jab2 to compensate. Mario has negative frame advantage when Jab canceling from sourspotted Jabs, so if the angle could be raised a bit on sourspot Jab, that would be helpful. I also think that sweetspot Jab1 should hit at a 90 degree angle. Plus, D-tilt angle should be changed to 90 degrees, which better puts people in a position where they have limited options to counter (as opposed to putting people directly above Mario, where you have to keep in mind that D-airs exist), and it should have less growth rate. The knockback on D-tilt scales almost as much as U-tilt...which basically makes D-tilt worse than U-tilt in most situations.

Kirby should have his F-tilt buffed slightly, it's probably one of his most essential moves in general ESPECIALLY against his bad matchups. The gdlk range on that move helps to save him in matchups that would have been well...much more depressing otherwise.
 

Steeler

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
5,930
Location
Wichita
NNID
Steeler
pit already has the ftilt buff in the test build

iduno about the wolf fsmash, he's already a very good character imo. maybe if we find he has a lot of trouble with marth/mk/snake/disjointed person but i doubt he does.

i like the kirby ftilt idea, it's the same, in theory, as pit's
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Sorry, meant AA.

So dang used to sayinf A2 here..

and I agree with Steeler, wolf was good in vBrawl if he didnt get gayed, and in BBrawl theres nothin to gay him...
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Oh, I didn't notice the test build buff on Pit.

Well yeah Wolf is pretty good overall, I think he could stand to be a tad better since while his gameplay hits a good standard (in terms of spacing, zoning, damage per hit), he's still very gimpable, and he doesn't have too many good combos.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
he doesnt have many good combos, sure, but his DPH is quite good methinks...his average is what? 12% on any given hit?

combine that with good range/speed and you got a decent guy
 

libertyernie

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
929
Location
Eau Claire, WI
The standard release makes Captain Falcon's final smash freeze the Wii for me. Is this fixed in the test build? I really want BBrawl if I can have it.
 

Varna

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
11
Quick question - did something change so that, for example, Marth can't do his FAir -> FAir combo? Someone I know that I've been introducing to this project won't stop complaining that, somehow, that combo can't be performed anymore. I'm just wondering whether it was intended or somehow a byproduct of messing with something else.
 

Linkshot

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
5,236
Location
Hermit in the Highrise
I'd like to suggest something about Lucario.

It has come to my attention (while digging through PSA) that Lucario's fSmash is set to Angle 361. As such, I propose that we remove the damage buff to it and set the Angle to 50.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Quick question - did something change so that, for example, Marth can't do his FAir -> FAir combo? Someone I know that I've been introducing to this project won't stop complaining that, somehow, that combo can't be performed anymore. I'm just wondering whether it was intended or somehow a byproduct of messing with something else.
But good Marth's don't F-air -> F-air you 90% of the time anyway.


And besides, nothing was really changed about Marth, except in the test build, his F-air was weakened.

Anyhow Linkshot, what exactly does angle 361 do anyway?
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Angle 361 is variable based on how hard you are hit, is extremely common (the single most common hit angle in the game), and I don't see the problem with it. Some people have this crazy idea that somehow it's a terrible angle for a move to have...

Marth can definitely do all combos he could do before in the current standard release. In the current test release, I'm unsure. Information on that would be appreciated!

I haven't tested final smashes in the current test build yet, but I'll tell you the situation with them. In the first standard release, the throw modifier code in particular but maybe some other codes cause certain final smashes to be ill behaved (I think it may just be the ones that have throwboxes as a part of their mechanics; Zelda & Sheik and Captain Falcon do which are the two I know for sure lock the game). We knew about this issue when we released; we decided the balance benefits of such editing ability was worth the downside of smash balls being unusable. Now, however, we have better tools so no such sacrifice need be made. The throw modifier engine is already removed, and the frame speed one (which causes serious issues with the timer item and maybe with final smashes but I'm not sure) will be gone by the next standard release. So basically... this is a known issue that will be fixed, but since the test build is a work in progress, I can't really report on the current status. I will definitely test every final smash before the next standard release.
 

Wii4Mii 99

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
1,859
When me and my friend played BBrawl with items, the timer item (as well as Shadow's Chaos Control) did not bug out, and Captain Falcon's, Zelda's, Sheik's, and Meta Knight's Final Smashes did not freeze the game. (Test build BTW)
 

Linkshot

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
5,236
Location
Hermit in the Highrise
Angle 361 raises the angle as the target is more damaged, essentially making it the worst killing angle in the game.

Since fSmash is Lucario go-to for a punishment kill, I think he should have an angle that's consistent for killing.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Now if only I wasn't pressed for time, plus I apparently need to put homebrew on my Wii...yeah.
 

Lokee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
194
Location
Philadelphia, PA
My Basic impressions on the test build changes

Jiggs Dair Buff- While im no Jigglypuff main/player it seems really good maybe too good. The new version pokes through shield really well and I surmise if coupled with pound pressure it could lead to shield breaking. Also It might give opportunity to combo into rest but I think great prediction is required to land it though.

Dtilt SDI Change- I "prettty" sure It solves the wall locking problems. I know for sure it makes it so you can only land the move more then once or twice (without wall) which is kinda of a nerf on there end since it pushes you back very far on each hit. On the other hand with a wall you can land a down tilt about 2-5 times but it really depends on the spacing really and I need to test it more.

Sonic Dtilt Buff-I like this better then the old one for sure. It allows for more chasing with it tripping so much. I think the move works really shines more near the edge setting up dire recovery situations and Spring gimping and mind gaming along with stage spiking and I dont think it even requires to be at extreme % to be effectives either. Overall improves Sonic's gimp game and chasing.

Ill type more later
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Thinkaman and I had a good discussion last night about both design issues and other issues; progress should be picking back up again. If I can catch him again today, we may be able to iron out a solid plan forward for the next test build.

Thanks to all who provided input. This is not to say stop if you have more to add of course.
 

Eyada

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
186
Location
Utah
I'll finally be able to play the test build tomorrow; I've been busy. What exactly did you change with Fox's jab? It says "Fox rapid jab now links"; does that mean you increased the hitstun on the individual hits of his Jab 3 (the rapid kicks) or did you increase the hitstun of/speed up Jab 2 so it smoothly links into Jab 3? Did you adjust how easy it is to SDI Fox's rapid kicks? Was it some other change entirely? I'd like to know the specifics so I know what to look for when testing.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
I looked at this carefully, and the issue with Fox's jab in standard Brawl was within the rapid jab itself. Hold shield and powershield it. The rest of his jab was fine (jab1 and jab2). I increased the bkb on Fox's rapid jab hits to actually link into each other, but it pushes them out pretty fast on its own (not just SDI). I honestly doubt it's that great, but it should move his rapid jab from "useless" to "not useless".
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
What is Fox's advantage on hit with Jabs anyway? From my observation his Jab cancel isn't very good, so if his Rapid Jabs don't suck, then that helps make his Jabs more reliable.
 

MKOwnage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
236
Location
Montana
Silly question.
Do I only have to install the balanced brawl zip archive? And if so what do I put it in.
 

Eldiran

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
1,707
Location
Pennsylvania
@MKOwnage: The contents of the .zip probably go on your SD card. There should be directions in the OP.

I'm having an issue with BBrawl. For most of the characters, when I use their final smashes, it freezes my game. Should Final Smashes just be turned off?
For now, unfortunately yes. However, next version should be entirely free of these glitches.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Our compressed archive should be laid out in about the same way; Brawl+'s won't be more intuitive.

First of all, decompress the archive, simple stuff.

Next open your SD card, just the root of it (meaning the lowest level, not inside any folder).

Next open the decompressed archive.

Now move all the files inside (gameconfig.txt, data folder, private folder, probably some other stuff) and put it in the root of the SD card.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Yes you just need the archive.

Decompressing means unzipping or whatever you want to call it. Take the .zip file and make it into a normal folder.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
When I get more free time, I'm going to investigate fighter.pac about the jab lock stuff.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
After some further discussion with Thinkaman, we concluded a lot of things that I am reporting here for transparency.

Sonic's new dtilt is indeed awesome. Thinkaman suggested slightly sharpening the angle to help Sonic chase in situations involving smart SDI or the more difficult characters (such as Luigi). It might also make the move a bit more natural as percentages get higher. It's being investigated.

Jigglypuff dair is apparently hilarious but transparently overpowered on a casual inspection by his Jigglypuff main sensibilities. He says he's going to be doing testing with shield damage set to 2 (I have it set to 3 in the current test build). To be clear, 2 means 200% of the normal shield damage while 3 means 250%.

I actually just completely ruined Lucas in the test build by significantly nerfing his dair and making his dtilt borderline worthless (at least against Sonic, who was Thinkaman's test victim). Sorry about that, but there was some serious confusion about talking about standard Brawl's version of those moves which is different from the first standard Balanced Brawl release and the test build. Changes are being reverted to the original Balanced Brawl release on this one (which is different from standard Brawl, mind you). Thinkaman is also apparently playing with the SDI values on dair in Lucas's favor; I fear for us all. Oh well, at least it was just a test version in which I made such mistakes.

Our operating plan for grab release business uses an ugly word... homogenization. The Balanced Brawl status quo sets typical ground breaks at something like 22 or 23 frames and jump breaks at something like 20 frames while leaving releasing at 30 frames, making grab release generally unsafe. However, the uniqueness of Bowser, DK, and Ness/Lucas is preserved. Bowser still has token frame advantage on his releases (and useable frame advantage against Ness/Lucas), DK has an even faster ground break than everyone else (also a special change to his releasing animation to make it so he doesn't get punished for broken cargo carries), and Ness/Lucas are usually frame neutral with people. The homogenization plan sets everything to 30 frames for frame neutrality, though we do intend to leave DK's faster ground break in. This is an undeniable but ultimately slight nerf to Bowser and a very, very slight buff to Ness and Lucas (only really matters in the Bowser matchup). No, Bowser keeping his shenanigans is not an option. This does improve most grab release situations from the first release since grab releases are now just always frame neutral (DK can still punish you if you let him ground break on you!). Frame neutral is generally not really that great, only getting an extra pummel or two in exchange for frame neutral when you could do even more damage and get better position from a throw is questionable. However, some people do use it for frame traps to trick people into regrabs; be my guest really.

Rocket PSIence's jab lock thing has entered committee, so to speak. I investigated it on my own and, despite serious misgivings looking at it in PSA, in-game it appears to be mechanically sound. I was unable to create situations where the variable wasn't clearing, but I suspect I wasn't really trying hard enough (I just have this strong feeling there's some corner case that will make it not reset). I sent it off to Thinkaman to investigate on his own (he has access to a Wii again!). I'm not entirely sold on it even being a good idea, to be clear, but it's not an intuitively bad idea either and is receiving very serious consideration. Beyond bug testing to make sure this implementation would work on every character and not cause issues in obscure game modes (you never know what is going to happen with this undocumented and just presumed unused variable!), the balance implications have to be carefully explored. When I'm not accidentally ruining some of Lucas's most important moves, he already has some really solid stuff in Bbrawl, and it's not like he's the only character affected (Link, as an example, has these sorts of situations). Sorry this took so long, but thank you for the contribution. On that note, if you know of any other unused variables, please do let us know. We're going to be needing an unused variable for ledge grab stuff down the road!

Speaking of things that took so long, Lokee's title screen is awesome and definitely going to be used, but I didn't snag a copy of it when I had the chance (the link expired). Thinkaman said he'd take care of it so maybe he's already PM'd about it, but either way, that's the situation and if this is the first thing you see Lokee just rehosting it somewhere and posting as such would be appreciated. To you as well, thank you for your contribution. I really appreciate it.

We have a plan to move forward with Samus, the polarizing character. We're planning on slightly toning down dtilt's kbg (a value in-between standard Brawl and the current BBrawl value) and nerfing tether attack by 1% across the board as nerfs. There appears to be widespread consensus that we made dtilt just too powerful for the type of character Samus is, and we can see the issue (though we aren't going to just make Samus suck again!). As per tether attack, I recognize this is a big nerf, but it is the single most polarizing thing about Samus. I asked Thinkaman for his analysis of how gameplay happens in the Samus vs Ganondorf matchup, and I thought he fell asleep as he posted:

(1:51:06 AM) Thinkaman: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

In terms of buffs to Samus though, since she didn't really need flat out nerfing so much as depolarizing, I am going to make her jab link (which will REALLY help her since her jab2 is a great "get off me" move that she basically can't use against grounded opponents now) and fix up her uthrow and dthrow to be more functionally independent.

Having two people doing stuff is so awesome; you guys really have no idea... I feel bad announcing his departure as such. We, of course, also had PSA related science such as:

(2:45:40 AM) Thinkaman: I can't decide what is more awesome
(2:45:51 AM) Thinkaman: seeing falcon punch have super armor, or seeing knee auto-kill shields
(2:45:55 AM) Thinkaman: both are pretty amazing

(later, I one upped him by having Wario turn into Warioman on every sidestep)

So yeah, things are good, and there was more, but that's just going to have to remain a surprise until later.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
Cool, I'm glad to hear that my Jab Lock code is being taken into consideration. But I think I might have found an even better implentation. I was looking at fighter.pac, and I noticed there was a variable that determined whether or not it would go into flopping animation or just regular downhit animation (the one that doesn't lock). If I could take another look later (my computer I'm using now can't handle OSA2), I might be able to get you the varible and test it.

I also have a concern when implementing this jab lock code. If you want to make sure Lucas is still benefiting from this, you have to make sure his d-tilt still has the locking ability, which is why I said that Lucas' d-tilt should be vBrawl with slightly more BKB.
 

Steeler

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
5,930
Location
Wichita
NNID
Steeler
just some comments:

sonic's dtilt absolutely perfectly fits sonic, i'm surprised we didn't get it added in the first release

jiggly dair is honestly pretty crazy but keeping it buffed but toned down sounds good. i still think it should be better for followups though, especially in the air.

i like the new plan for grab releases.

the jab lock change sounds great if it works properly, so it's still a great setup but not totally broken against walls or anything.

glad my samus dtilt nerf idea got through, zair nerf is admittedly pretty big but i find it's either AMAZING in a matchup or just kind of decent. it makes sense.
 

Lokee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
194
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Speaking of things that took so long, Lokee's title screen is awesome and definitely going to be used, but I didn't snag a copy of it when I had the chance (the link expired). Thinkaman said he'd take care of it so maybe he's already PM'd about it, but either way, that's the situation and if this is the first thing you see Lokee just rehosting it somewhere and posting as such would be appreciated. To you as well, thank you for your contribution. I really appreciate it.
Sorry I have to update some of my links since I made a Mediafire account, so here ya go a genuine Balanced Brawl Title Screen http://www.mediafire.com/?zyznljemhd2

Im glad I can contribute something to this project and, Also glad that the upcoming version looks like its going be crazy good.

I think nerfing Samus in her Dtilt and Zair is for the best. Samus is a keep away character at heart so it makes sense she shouldnt be awsome at close range as well as far range. Her Zair kept many often large, close range, or low mobility characters out pretty effectively and with her newfound kill potential especially with that amazing Dtilt and Upgraded Charge Shot made it horrible for them at near and far. Personally I would tweak her a bit more since she's heavy, hard to combo, and of course her recovery it pretty godly for someone of her weight, also considering the damage and knockback buffs on many of her moves.

Thats all for now
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
It looks like RA-Bit[27] controls the condition of Jab Lock. If it's clear, then it goes into the regular hit when you're down and not the jab lock one.

If you can put Clear RA-Bit[27] in the Jab Lock animation in PSA then it's an easier implentation and is much less likely to have bugs. I haven't tested it, but it should work.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Mario's D-tilt can't do this in BBrawl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0a14FBDZyI#t=5m47s

Just saying...the way you changed it actually makes it pointless for Mario to use. In vBrawl it is an overlooked but invaluable KO setup at high percents. Now it's basically just worse than U-tilt, worse at comboing at low percents, and worse at KOing at high percents. If D-tilt is going to do 6% as opposed to 5%, the growth rate needs to be reduced.

Plus I don't really like the 100 degree angle on D-tilt. It means I have to react to D-airs while comboing. By reducing the angle to around 90 to 85 degrees, it would be better at forcing a position that is hard for opponents to respond to.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom