Ban brinstar and rainbow cruise

[Niko45]

Idk who was discrediting PP's win but in any case anyone who thinks that rom was the first tournament where these stages had significant influence in tournament play really hasn't been paying attention. These stages have been bad for a long time and the distaste for them has been around way longer than rom. It's time to do something about it.

 

[Dark Hart]

You're always gonna find someone with a distaste for a stage.

The stage list really doesn't need to get any smaller than it is.

 

[Niko45]

You're not always going to find a majority of the community with a distaste for a stage...

This is not about simply a handful of people not liking these stages.

What you're saying makes absolutely no point and I could interpret that as we should open up all the stages.

 

[Dark Hart]

I think that the Pound4 Melee rule-set should be standard at all tournaments

if you really want to know

but I think that getting rid of stages like RC and Brinstar are going to hurt the community more than help it. if anything DK64 should disappear, that stage basically says, look at me, I'm gonna camp

 

[Druggedfox]

I have to ban Brinstar on Hbox/puff.

Falco vs Marth stages are lols and Sheik is fine on RC. I did better vs that Sheik on Dreamland anyway.

You shouldn't have to.

Also, falco does fine vs marth on neutralsssss you just hatin <3

 

[Pink Reaper]

I shouldnt have to ban FD vs Falco with half the cast imo.

 

[Ben-Teezee]

This is hilarious. I love how these stage discussions always turn into a Bash *insert character X* here because people decide to main ****ty characters like captain falcon.

Dont ban stages cuz chars are better than u on said stage. Believe it or not there is no 100% fair stage (as had been said many times) and there will always be a stage that you will be bad on.

The pros just want to make it so that there is only enough stages where they have 1 bad stage. Thus making it so they are never at a disadvantage as long as they auto ban that stage.

Thats fair I think HOWEVER that can be achieved by just giving you 2 bans in the *insert # of stages* list.


These Topics should always be lets change the counterpick system/rules not lets delete *insert random stage here*

Personally It should be Yoshis, FoD, PS, BF, FD, DL, RC, Brinstar, KJ64 AT LEAST to start maybe more but those just might be personal preference, ON from the START. You strike down from all the stages. Round 2 you get 2 bans.



@ drugged fox: Falco doesnt have to ban brinstar on jiggs? and Marth doesnt **** him on neutrals cept dreamland which he ALWAYS strikes? you obviously dont know anything about falco.

 

[Niko45]

I wouldn't expect Falco players to find the stage list unfair or imbalanced since Falco varies between fine and amazing on all but one stage (brinstar), so he can just ban that stage and still be completely comfortable everywhere. Same really goes for Fox and Puff.

The issue is that there are lots of characters who are bad on multiple CPs and everyone knows it. So their best stage (a neutral) is always banned while they still can't cover all their own bad stages with their own ban.

But the "fairness" is really kind of not the main point. Why are we playing on a stage that can hurt you or be broken into 2 pieces? Why are we playing on a stage that moves? None of the other stages share this characteristic so they're clearly out of sync with how the game is typically played competitively.

 

[_lemons]

I think that the Pound4 Melee rule-set should be standard at all tournaments

if you really want to know

but I think that getting rid of stages like RC and Brinstar are going to hurt the community more than help it. if anything DK64 should disappear, that stage basically says, look at me, I'm gonna camp

Why? Europe uses what I think is the optimal stage list, and their community seems fine...


Edit: Ben-Teezee, I think DruggedFox is saying that he shouldn't have to ban Brinstar because it should be banned outright..

 

[Niko45]

This is hilarious. I love how these stage discussions always turn into a Bash *insert character X* here because people decide to main ****ty characters like captain falcon.

Really interesting point considering CF is one of the better characters on CP stages...

 

[Wobbles]

So we just ban stuff not because it's broken, degenerate, overcentralizing, or random... but because it's different and you can find enough people to whine about it.

You should have just said "fairness isn't the point" from the beginning.

 

[Niko45]

Wobbles you already lost, it's ok.

And I meant fairness in the context of counting up how many CPs each char has in each matchup. Though that is the main reason Floats and Mute were eliminated when pound 4 changed things.

 

[-ACE-]

This just goes to show you how truly deep melee is; still changing to this day. As soon as you think you have everything figured out, you'll find out you were wrong about something down the road, with few exceptions. I love this game.

 

[Wobbles]

I lost because, unfortunately, not enough people are willing to accept that an objective criteria sometimes means dealing with **** you don't like.

Fortunately for you, you rely on a subjective and vague argument like "changes the game." And when any counter-example comes up, you can say "oh well that doesn't change it ENOUGH so it's okay." Of course, it's "obvious" when something is enough or too much, so you never have to actually explain what the brightline is, which makes it conveniently easy to argue from your perspective.

 

[Dark Hart]

Wobbles, I agreed with you, if it makes you feel better.

 

[Ben-Teezee]

i agreed with wobbles in a different thread a couple months ago, still do.

@Niko

I wouldn't expect "Marth" players to find the stage list unfair or imbalanced since "Marth" varies between fine and amazing on all but *3* stage (non-neutrals), so he can just ban those stages altogether and still be completely comfortable everywhere. Same really goes for Fox and Puff.

hmm i wonder why ur FOR banning these stages??

edit: im unsubscribing cuz this debate never ends so dont bother answering back. was fun :D

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So we just ban stuff not because it's broken, degenerate, overcentralizing, or random... but because it's different and you can find enough people to whine about it.

You should have just said "fairness isn't the point" from the beginning.

If you find enough people then...yeah it's acceptable, but I doubt there are enough people that truly want the stages banned as a large enough majority to go with it.

 

[_lemons]

laziest troll ever?

edit since broken was deleted from the internet: I don't think character mains play as big a role in whether or not people are in favor of keeping Brinstar/KJ64/RC... Hax wants them b& and falcon does reasonably well on all of them, Wobbles want to keep them and ICs do pretty poorly on them as far as I can tell.

 

[Niko45]

@Niko

I wouldn't expect "Marth" players to find the stage list unfair or imbalanced since "Marth" varies between fine and amazing on all but *3* stage (non-neutrals), so he can just ban those stages altogether and still be completely comfortable everywhere. Same really goes for Fox and Puff.

hmm i wonder why ur FOR banning these stages??

edit: im unsubscribing cuz this debate never ends so dont bother answering back. was fun :D

That didn't even make sense.

In any case Marth is not terrible anywhere except brinstar really. Plus my original point was genuine (and not even directed at you) about how the stage list favors top chars.

 

[JBM falcon08]

I think that if other people who don't typically played this game saw our stage list, they'd laugh.

Pro eddie in GG i play in melee (cue) doesn't understand why RC is legal, but not pokefloats.

Banning the two stages would be much better for the community. Bringing back stages that deserve to be on the current list wouldn't be good.

Personally, i think stage list should have as little of effect on the game as possible, making it as neutral as possible (nothing is neutral about ssbm stage wise).

 

[Druggedfox]

@ drugged fox: Falco doesnt have to ban brinstar on jiggs? and Marth doesnt **** him on neutrals cept dreamland which he ALWAYS strikes? you obviously dont know anything about falco.

I would really like people to learn to read before throwing out assuming and insulting statements that are hardly worth replying to.

First, I said falco shouldn't have to ban brinstar, not doesn't.

Second, falco can handle marth fine on any neutral. He in NO way gets ***** on any of them. FD is the worst, and even that is playable.

I obviously don't know anything about falco? Yeah man, I suck at this game, and don't know jack **** about falco. Clearly if someone expresses an opinion you don't agree with, they know nothing about said topic; especially when your opinion is entirely incorrect.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah, falco shouldn't have to ban brinstar...

because it shouldn't be tourney legal. lol

 

[ss118]

hahahahahahaha Sami not knowing anything about Falco.

Especially when it comes to playing versus Marth hahahahahahaha

....wait you are serious?

Let me laugh harder.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

For your info, Druggedfox has had to deal with Marth bull**** using Falco for years. Powershielding, chainthrowing, gimping, sword. Marth just doesn't phaze him.

 

[ShootingStars]

no point in lame stages like rainbow cruise and brinstar...
its like street fighter stages with obstacles in it -.-

 

[AlphaZealot]

Wobbles won this thread. Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise don't change the game, last I checked all the characters still operate the exact same way and the goal is still the same.

 

[_lemons]

Wobbles won this thread. Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise don't change the game, last I checked all the characters still operate the exact same way and the goal is still the same.

I think "operating the exact same way" is arguable. And if the goal is winning, you're definitely right on that count

 

[Dark Hart]

Wobbles won this thread. Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise don't change the game, last I checked all the characters still operate the exact same way and the goal is still the same.

For once, since the release of Brawl, I agree with you, AZ.

 

[-ACE-]

Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise don't change the game

Lolwut.

AZ, what you said applies to all stages.

 

[Vigilante]

To me, the two best stages to battle on are Final destination and battlefield. The ones I hate most are Mute City, and all DK stages

Mute City destroys characters that ar ebard at recovery, namely Falco and Link to name a few.
The DK stages have annoying elements. I'm all for variety, and I'm okay with counterpicks, but we need to pick stages that wil be most balanced as a whole..

 

[NJzFinest]

Lolwut.

AZ, what you said applies to all stages.

Agreed.
All stages are part of the game haha

 

[clowsui]

Lolwut.

AZ, what you said applies to all stages.

Agreed.
All stages are part of the game haha

Don't make this an issue of semantics. You know exactly what he meant.

 

[Ripple]

what AZ means about the goal being the same is this;

the current goal is to take off 4 stocks from your opponent.

what it becomes on hyrule and other such stages is do as much damage as you can in 8 min.

 

[-ACE-]

Actually no, I don't.

I think stages that have the least amount of moving parts and possess some form of symmetry do the best job of providing a player vs player competitive atmosphere, which to me is a better form off competition than player + stage vs player + stage.

 

[Niko45]

what AZ means about the goal being the same is this;

the current goal is to take off 4 stocks from your opponent.

what it becomes on hyrule and other such stages is do as much damage as you can in 8 min.

For the millionth time:

Hyrule is not the only banned stage. There are other stages that keep this 4 stock goal intact which are still banned already, so clearly the definition of a banned stage is more complicated than you or AZ are indicating.

 

[Dark Hart]

Guys, Fox can infinite on 2 of the transformations on PS, let's ban it.

 

[NJzFinest]

Ban Fox, then this game would be perfect.

On a serious note, I don't think Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise should be placed together.

Far more characters are viable on Brinstar then that silly PokeFloats counterpart....

 

[Youngling]

AZ says something absolutely ****ing
********, gets rebutted, and now is yet to be seen.

 

[PB&J]

i say we have a poll..so whatever mod is in charge of that and can do that for us..thanks in advanced

 

[Kason Birdman]

A poll would be nice... but at the end of the day all that matter is if tournament organizers want to ban the stages at the event. If a poll comes out positive for them being banned. Any TO could say, Who cares? and still have them.

But if someone starts banning them, like someone already has, then other people will. They will follow.

If you build it... They will come.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Actually no, I don't.

I think stages that have the least amount of moving parts and possess some form of symmetry do the best job of providing a player vs player competitive atmosphere, which to me is a better form off competition than player + stage vs player + stage.

They might, but it doesn't mean that the stages should be banned if they aren't broken or a super majority aren't in agreement for banning it.

I do like starter stages more than CP in most cases too, but I don't thing there is a true majority for banning it or even valid reasons to remove them if they aren't broken.