Banned Stages?

[OddCrow]

Are there any stages that will be instantly banned when tournament play starts up?
My only thoughts so far are
Pokemon Stadium 2(wind stage)-
Battleship Halberd(random)
Temple(big)
Picto-chat(random)

 

[freetyme]

Not a big tournament guy (because I'm not good, just like to play" but WarioWare stage is definitely gonzo. Also one of the great things about the level creator is that you can create hundreds of unique, balanced, stages.

 

[ZAxel]

definitely norfair

 

[The Great Leon]

I'm thinking Bridge of Eldin wll be banned. Depending on how good DeDeDe's chaingrab is, that would be a GG counterpick. It would prolly get baned anyway.

 

[RedMage8BT]

Tournament Legal Predictions (only Dojo stages):

Battlefield
Yoshi's Island (the new Brawl one, not the returning one)
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Final Destination

Hmm, those are the only Dojo stages I can probably say will be tournament legal. There are probably more unlockable stages that will be tournament legal.

 

[Kit-Tsukasa]

Are there any stages that will be instantly banned when tournament play starts up?
My only thoughts so far are
Pokemon Stadium 2(wind stage)-
Battleship Halberd(random)
Temple(big)
Picto-chat(random)

-New Pork City should be banned. It's just like Temple...too big.
-Norfair because of abuse of the little capsule when the lava rises. I think the lava also kills like in the first 64 smash. It kills definetely much quicker than in Melee from demo videos
-Rumble Falls is like Icicle Mountain from Melee.

Pokemon Stadium 2 shouldn't be banned, though I haven't played it so I can't say, but even though the wind stage increases jump, that shouldn't be a big problem.

 

[SlayerOfEvil]

Stages to definitally get the ax:
Frigate Orpheon (Turns completely 180 on you)
Temple (Same reasons as why it was banned before)
Melee's Yoshi Island (")
Wind Waker stage (We all know how picky people can be. One bomb gets shot on stage and people scream TOURNAMENT BANNED!)
Rumble Falls (RF = Icicle Mountain)
New Pork City (Same reasons as to why Melee Temple was banned)
Distant Planet (Rain)
Flat Zone 2 (Size and randomness)

Omg, I thought there wouldn't be too many bans but now that I see this list, WTF.

Heck, there could be MORE stages banned right before our eyes. The only thing I can hope for is that it won't be just a "FD, Smashville, FD, Smashville, FD, Smashville, FD, Smashville" fest...

 

[JC-Gamer]

I never saw much of a problem with Melee's Yoshi's Island. If you get KO'd by going through the spinning blocks it's your own stupidity. Of course, there isn't much recovery space on the left side and none on the right. I guess that could pose as a problem.

The Frigate Orpheon though, I think it is perfectly legit. Sure, it turns but it's pretty quick and you'll be back on the stage before you know it. Besides, fighting in mid-air is part of the Smash action.

 

[SlayerOfEvil]

I never saw much of a problem with Melee's Yoshi's Island. If you get KO'd by going through the spinning blocks it's your own stupidity. Of course, there isn't much recovery space on the left side and none on the right. I guess that could pose as a problem.

The Frigate Orpheon though, I think it is perfectly legit. Sure, it turns but it's pretty quick and you'll be back on the stage before you know it. Besides, fighting in mid-air is part of the Smash action.

Not necessarily the blocks that got it banned, but for many more.

Should know how strict people are about their land moving in competition...

 

[Mada90]

I never saw much of a problem with Melee's Yoshi's Island. If you get KO'd by going through the spinning blocks it's your own stupidity. Of course, there isn't much recovery space on the left side and none on the right. I guess that could pose as a problem.

The Frigate Orpheon though, I think it is perfectly legit. Sure, it turns but it's pretty quick and you'll be back on the stage before you know it. Besides, fighting in mid-air is part of the Smash action.

The main reason it's banned it's because of Peach's wall bombing,she could just stall in the middle pit and never die.

 

[SteveTV]

Spear pillar. No question about it.

1.) It has a beam that shoots through it somewhat randomly(there's a little warning).
2.)It randomly flips upside-down.
3.)It randomly inverts your controls.

I watched it today on a live stream, and the guy was super confused by the control switch. It looks beautiful with moving platforms on each side, and below the main platform there is a cave/tunnel thing that you could probably tech your way to 999%. I was very disappointed when I saw the stage flip, and when the guy explained the control switch I was even more disappointed.

 

[Rikka]

Rainbow Cruise and Pokefloats were legal stages in Melee, you know.

Some stages are pretty obvious. Warioware is one. I suspect Mushroomy with the entire choice of stage being random. I want to keep an open mind on even the obvious ones, though. Banning without testing, even if the answer is obvious, is stupid.

 

[Red_Maniac]

Rumble Falls actually scrolls slowly, and your warned when it will scroll quickly.... which isn't even that quick in the first place. It's definately not as random as Icicle Mountain. Counterpick?

Frigate Orpheon QUICKLY turns 180 decrees. ANd I mean... very quickly. It might be a little confusing at first, but it should be a counterpick.

Luigi's Mansion looks all right for tournaments. No distractions, and the entire stage is breakable until it looks just like Final Destination.

Classic Mario Bros. has walk off edges and enemies that can be thrown. Banned.

Donkey Kong arcade... no idea.

Flat Zone 2... most likely banned.

Battleship Halberd.... the laser, canonball and arm are easy to avoid. Counterpick/Neutral

Skyworld and Delfino Plaza look all right.

I've seen, like, 10 seconds of Spear Pillar footage so I have no idea what it's like.

Port City looks just like Mute City.

For Mario Circuit, the Shy Guys do a lot of damage, but they warn you when they come. Also, there's walf off edges. Not good.

The WW Stage doesn't have any distractions besides the cannonballs. Counterpick or banned.

Pokemon Stadium 2 will definately be banned because of the Electric and Wind stages.

Castle Siege looks all right, but there are walk off edges on the second part.

Distant Planet has the rain and the easy-to-avoid Bulborb. THe rain may get it banned.

The Summit will probably be banned. When the mountain is sliding down... it may be like Big Blue. I don't know. I haven't seen any footage of anyone get off the stage during that part. And the fish instantly KO's anyone who it eats, but it only eats anyone stupid enough to go to the bottom.

From what I've seen, WarioWare, Pictochat, New Pork City, Bridge of Eldin and Norfair are DEFINATELY banned. Maybe Mushroomy Kingdom because of the walk off edges.

 

[Wiseguy]

Smashville. Why? Because villagers will sometimes laugh at player's misfortune as seen here:

I know what you're thinking. "But Wiseguy, laughter doesn't affect your character at all so how can it count as a stage hazzard?" I'll tell you why. Having someone laugh when you take damage could really hurt a guy's feelings, thus giving an unfair advantage to your opponent while you struggle you see the action onscreen through your tears. No question about it: this stage will be banned.

 

[verditude]

Classic Mario Bros. has walk off edges and enemies that can be thrown. Banned.

I've seen, like, 10 seconds of Spear Pillar footage so I have no idea what it's like.

For Mario Circuit, the Shy Guys do a lot of damage, but they warn you when they come. Also, there's walf off edges. Not good.

Pokemon Stadium 2 will definately be banned because of the Electric and Wind stages.

Castle Siege looks all right, but there are walk off edges on the second part.

The Summit will probably be banned. When the mountain is sliding down... it may be like Big Blue. I don't know. I haven't seen any footage of anyone get off the stage during that part. And the fish instantly KO's anyone who it eats, but it only eats anyone stupid enough to go to the bottom.

From what I've seen, WarioWare, Pictochat, New Pork City, Bridge of Eldin and Norfair are DEFINATELY banned. Maybe Mushroomy Kingdom because of the walk off edges.

1. What's wrong with Electric and Wind stages? Wind basically gives double jup heigt and more floatiness, and Electric doesn't do anything gamebreaking, just hinders your ground movement.
2. Walk off edges? Why would those be banned? They were only banned in Melee due to Fox waveshining. Guess what's not in Brawl?
3. Sliding Summit doesn't act like Big Blue, your character bounces off the ice.
4. Spear Pillar vid: http://youtube.com/watch?v=TiRG9VY9JdE Yeah, it'll be b7 for sure.

 

[Red_Maniac]

1. What's wrong with Electric and Wind stages? Wind basically gives double jup heigt and more floatiness, and Electric doesn't do anything gamebreaking, just hinders your ground movement.

I don't know, the conveyor belts just seem distracting.

2. Walk off edges? Why would those be banned? They were only banned in Melee due to Fox waveshining. Guess what's not in Brawl?

Eh, maybe you're right.

3. Sliding Summit doesn't act like Big Blue, your character bounces off the ice.

Oh. Nice.

4. Spear Pillar vid: http://youtube.com/watch?v=TiRG9VY9JdE Yeah, it'll be b7 for sure.

Cool.

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

So these are definitely going to be legal, right?:
Delfino Plaza
Smashville
Battlefield
Final Destination
Rainbow Cruise
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege

 

[susu_atari]

Despite being random, I can see Delfino Plaza being legal. There's a lot of "flight time", so it's easy to prepare yourself for the upcoming terrain.

 

[Red_Maniac]

From what I've seen so far, I think it's safe to say that Luigi's Mansion will be legal.

 

[OddCrow]

hrm...I wonder if there will be any tournament-stages.
Like, a tournament committee creates a stage on the stage builder and shows pictures of it online before the tourney, so people can download/build there own to train on, that would be cool. It would keep things fresh imo.

 

[leprechaunlink727]

I actually think Luigi's Mansion might be banned, because it has two floors, nad is therefore a "Loop" (Camping-friendly). But you can destroy all the rooms, so it's still up in the air for this one.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I actually think Luigi's Mansion might be banned, because it has two floors, nad is therefore a "Loop" (Camping-friendly). But you can destroy all the rooms, so it's still up in the air for this one.

It's not really a loop. The middle platform can be passed through in the center, and each part of the stage can be destroyed with in 5 seconds by pretty much anyone, so if camping is a problem, you can just turn it into Final Ddestination within half a minute. LOL

Well, here's what I think about all of the stages regarding tournament legality (long read):

Battlefield - Neutral Stage (For obvious reasons.)
Final Destination - Neutral Stage
Delfino Plaza- Counterpick Stage (It provides greater advantage for ones with more jumps, like Jigglypuff, but the overall stage isn't too distracting to be banned.)
Luigi's Mansion - Neutral Stage (Nothing that'll cause too great of an advantage for any specific character.)
Mushroomy Kingdom [Overworld/Underworld] - Counterpick Stage
Mario Circuit - Counterpick Stage (Hazards aren't hard to avoid, and warning is given through the track-position display thing, to warrant banning. Karts does a good amount of damage, though, and with a stage like this, it shouldn't be a Neutral Stage.)
Rumble Falls - Banned Stage (Similar to Icicle Mountain. With the stage constantly going up, one must focus more on climbing than fighting. Warning is given this time for the rapid acceleration, but it's still not enough to fix it. Plus, the part where there is a narrow path to climb up could cause more than desired interference, especially during the rapid acceleration.)
Donkey Kong Arcade - Banned Stage (This stage has the same problem as Temple.)
Bridge of Eldin - Neutral/Counterpick Stage (It could go either way here. Bulbin isn't that destructive, although the explosive barrels are. Also, chain-throwing to death COULD be an issue. I would lean more to it being a Counterpick Stage, mostly because Neutral Stages tend to not have any damaging hazards.)
Great Sea - Neutral/Counterpick Stage (Cannon's are the only hazard. No fear of being screwed over by being under the tip of the boat, as you can swim for a little while. The only risky part is when the boat is airborne, which is only for a couple of seconds at a time. Probably a Counterpick Stage, for the same reason as it having a damaging hazard. It'll probably be an often picked Counterpick Stage, though.)
Norfair - Banned Stage (Way too many hazards. Brinstar in Melee wasn't banned, but this one is was more chaotic. That, and the bottommost platform is a solid platform, so you might be comboed by the lave and the stage stage-spiking you.)
Frigate Orpheon - Neutral/Counterpick Stage (No damaging Hazards. The only thing significant is the stage flip, but that is given good enough prior warning, as the flip itself isn't that bad. A lot of the time, the stage will flip and you'll barely notice it, as you'll still be stand on the ground. But to be safe, you can just jump before it flips after the fourth siren, to gain a little height, in case the platform gets higher for some reason. I would lean more to the Neutral side on this one.)
Yoshi's Island - Neutral Stage (Nothing changes except for the seasons in the background. There's not even any changes such as slippery surfaces in the winter, etc.)
Battleship Halberd - Counterpick Stage (For the same reason as Delfino Plaza. That, and the cannon on the Halberd deck. Despite the fact that it's easy to avoid [both laser and cannonball], it's still a hazard, nonetheless.)
Lylat Cruise - Neutral Stage (No hazards whatsoever, except for maybe being distracted by the flashy graphics. )
Pokemon Stadium 2 - Neutral Stage (Basic layout and alternate layouts have no damaging hazards. Ground is the most Neutral of the four transformations, with no hazards of any kind. Ice only has slippery surfaces, nothing too big. Electric has the conveyor belt, which could get annoying, but any skilled player should know how to get around it. Plus, there are also 3 platforms that don't move that you can get on. Flying could make fight awkward for some, but it's not even close to game-breaking. It just boosts jump height and makes everyone more floaty. And with L-canceling as we know it being out, more aerial time might not be a bad thing.)
Spear Pillar - Banned Stage (As much as I like this stage, it's way to game-breaking with the giant lasers firing randomly, the flipping/tilting of the stage, as well as the control tampering effect makes this stage an instant ban.)
Port Town - Counterpick Stage (Pretty much the new Mute City. Same reasoning as Delfino Plaza.)
Castle Siege - Neutral Stage (Three neutral stages in one. The second has walk-off edges, but we don't know the metagame right now to see a problem with any walk-offs. The sudden stage changes are under strict time intervals, so it's not really random it you take the time to knew how long each stage lasts. And the changing of the stage won't kill you, it'll most likely save you some of the time.)
Wario Ware - Banned Stage (How can this not be banned? It gives players auto Giant Mushrooms, and worse, auto Starmen. Having the Starman invincibility is probably the most game breaking thing.)
Distant Planet - Neutral/Counterpick Stage (Once again, I can see it going either way, but I'm leaning more an Counterpick Stage. The basic stage isn't that game-altering, but when the rain comes, the left side of the stage becomes a death-trap. The number piece things that grows on the flowers [forgot what they were called] still appear even when items are turned off, but since there aren't that strong when thrown, anyway, it's not a big issue [but I'd thought I'd point it out]. The Bulborb could swallow people whole, causing an instant KO. Although it doesn't happen often, there's still the chance. But nothing is significantly broken, so that's why I'm siding with Counterpick Stage.)
Smashville - Neutral Stage (Oh noes, the villiagers are laughing at me. LOL )
New Pork City - Banned Stage (Hyrule: Temple 2.0 right here. It has the same problem of major teching to live to extremely high percentages [although not as bad as Temple], the whole camping issue, and not to mention the Ultimate Chimera lerking around to score instant KOs.)
The Summit - Counterpick Stage (This has the fish, so it'll probably not be Neutral. But if there wasn't a fish, then I could potentially see this as being a Neutral Stage.)
Skyworld - Neutral Stage (There's a slightly "Temple problem" here, but it's not as bad. And plus, the platforms can be temporarily disposed of, so that lessens the problem even more.)
Mario Bros. - Banned Stage (Temple Problem to the max. Not to mention that there are a bunch of turtles walking around to damage you.)
Flat Zone 2 - Counterpick/Banned Stage (I haven't seen much of it, so I don't know if there are any hazards like the falling tools of the first one, but it doesn't look like there are, so there's a chance it might be a Counterpick. Its walk off edges could be its downfall yet again. I could go either way on this one right now.)
Pictochat - Counterpick/Banned Stage (It's just Final Destination...every once in a while...There are some pretty cheap transformations, and some basic ones. I'm not sure if they are cheap enough to warrant banning as of right now, since there isn't much play testing as of yet.)
Electroplankton - Neutral Stage (There doesn't seem to be anything that can damage you. It's just as unique layout of tilt-able platforms. Not sure how dangerous the water is though, but it's probably not that game-altering. Worse case scenario, it'll be a Counterpick due to the water, if the water drags you along.)
Shadow Moses Island - Neutral/Counterpick Stage (Nothing dangerous here. The walls could be a pain for characters that don't specialize in KOing upwards, but since the ways could be temporarily destroyed, it's not a anything to fuss over. I would lean more to the side of it being a Neutral Stage.)
Green Hill Zone - Neutral/Counterpick Stage (Once again, a walk-off stage, but like I said before, there doesn't seem to be any problems with this as of right now. The curve of the land also prevents potential chain-throws to deaths. There are a few pieces of the ground in the middle that are destroyable that create a pit in the middle of the stage, but that's not likely to cause any trouble [that, and they quickly return, anyway]. Probably Neutral.)

PAST STAGES
Rainbow Ride - Counterpick Stage (Initially, it was a Neutral Stage by MLG rules, but then changed to a Counterpick Stage, for good reason. I think it'll stay there this time as well.)
Temple - Banned Stage (Need I say more?)
Brinstar - Counterpick Stage (I don't think the lava alone to be enough to ban it. Plus, there's no stage spike thing that Norfair has, so that's good. It'll probably say in the Counterpick category.)
Yoshi's Island - Counterpick/Banned Stage (It is banned in Melee because Fox can easily Waveshine many characters to death on the right side. But that's gone. The extremely close boundaries could still cause it to be banned, though, but for now, I side with it being a Counterpick.)
Corneria Counterpick Stage (Was a Counterpick Stage, and still should be a Counterpick Stage.)
Big Blue - Banned Stage (Why did this even return? It's horrible...)
Onett - Counterpick/Banned Stage (It is banned in Melee, but I can see it not being as cheap in Brawl. Plus, I know of some tournament scenes that don't ban it in Melee, like my scene at in Utah [the primary host is a Fox player...wonder why he choose not to ban it ]. I think it won't be banned in Brawl as of the current moment.)
Green Greens - Counterpick Stage (Hazards aren't too game-changing for it to be banned, hence why it wasn't in Melee.)
Pokemon Stadium - Neutral Stage (Yeah...Neutral. Hopefully, there's won't be any weird random glitches on the Fire field, as I've encountered like 3 or 4 different glitches on the Fire field alone, one of which was in the finals of a tournament. And the left side of the Rock field bothers me...but I guess it's not that bad...I just hate the camping there.)
Jungle Japes - Counterpick Stage (Was a Counterpick Stage, and will probably still be a Counterpick Stage.)
NOTE: All opinions expressed is obviously disregarding potential advanced techniques that could provide significant advantage on certain stage (like how Waveshining in Melee lead to the banning of some stages). These opinions could change depending on what game-changing advanced techniques are discovered (especially if one is discovered that benefits from walk-off stages, like what Waveshining did in Melee).

 

[Tinkerer]

Hyrule Temple was actually banned not because of its hugeness, but because no-one could ever catch up with some characters when walking around in circles. New Pork is just loads of platforms.

 

[CMWaters]

New Pork could be banned via the Chimera thing.

 

[Uchiha.Sanosuke]

The only ones that I can think of that could be banned, off the top of my head, are Pictochat and New Pork City...

Maybe perhaps Spear Pillar? Or Mario Circuit?

I know what ones won't be banned: the ones without any background interference.

 

[DQP]

Are there any stages that will be instantly banned when tournament play starts up?
My only thoughts so far are
Pokemon Stadium 2(wind stage)-
Battleship Halberd(random)
Temple(big)
Picto-chat(random)

i agree with you on all of these stages, and more. here's some more:

frigate orpheon (rotates)
rumble falls (scrolls upward)
warioware (random)
norfair (that big inescapable lavaflow)

all the other stages look pretty neutral to me

 

[Y10]

Man im so happy im not a tourney ***, you guys have no fun at all avoiding the stages that are actually fun.

I would love to join a tourney that has Wario Ware as the only stage, thats what we called true skill (being the ability to fight and win the microgames at the same time).

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

I do believe Onett should be legal now because Fox is gone...

Having played Stadium 2 at E For All, I can safely tell you it's a HORRIBLE LEVEL. the wind and ice transformations are wayyy too game changing.

Stadium ONE however, should remain a neutral.

It's a shame Dreamland 64 didn't return.

 

[Kirbykrew]

I actually think Warioware should be legal. Call me crazy here, but here's why.

Sure, the rewards are a pain, but remeber, there's only one way to get them: Microgames.

It's like a game of it's own: Trying to make sure your opponent doesn't win while you try to win yourself.

Of course, you could have a stage rule forcing players to lose on "Don't Move", seeing that requires no effort from anyone. Anyways, I say it should be a counterpick or Neutral, not a ban. At least give it a shot.

If you don't like the minigames, don't listen to what they say to do.
People who concentrate on fighting and following the minigame would logically be more distracted than those of you who are not following it.
Now, while I can't say I know what the punishment is for not following the minigames' directions, the only matches I've seen on the WarioWare stage ended fast enough that it doesn't look like you take extra damage or more knockback for ignoring the instructions.

This idea also works. Warioware for Tourneys.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I never saw much of a problem with Melee's Yoshi's Island. If you get KO'd by going through the spinning blocks it's your own stupidity. Of course, there isn't much recovery space on the left side and none on the right. I guess that could pose as a problem.
.

Uhhhh....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bRBZKre9M_M

 

[Rikka]

wn:Of course, you could have a stage rule forcing players to lose on "Don't Move", seeing that requires no effort from anyone. Anyways, I say it should be a counterpick or Neutral, not a ban. At least give it a shot.

Like I've said, nothing should or will be instantly be banned, regardless of how pointless the testing seems.

 

[SteveTV]

Uhhhh....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bRBZKre9M_M

Yeah, that sucks, but waveshining isn't in brawl. The only reason I can think of that walk-offs would be banned would be DK grabbing you, walking to the edge and throwing you. I supose chain-grabbing could be an issue too.

What exactly are the reasons for banning walk-offs other than wave-shining? I've never actually heard any because wave-shining is the first response, and that's more than enough reason to ban them.

 

[GreenKirby]

Guys, here's an idea...

Let's wait till the game actually comes to America. :O

Isn't that a great plan?

 

[S2]

I think its going to take some time before people agree on banning any stage.

That being said, many of the stages in Brawl look good for tournament play.

 

[RT]

It's too early to tell, but if the stage is far too large, has uneven ceilings, or moves around too much to the point where the stage is more of an obstacle course than a battelfield, then it will be most certainly banned in tournaments. Also, stages banned due to specific characters gaining an almost-broken advantage will take much more time to finalize.

Counter-picks will be even more difficult to figure out.

 

[SothE700k]

But its all in good fun to learn eh?

There is one stage that could be banned if someone doesn't learn how to get out of Dedede's chaingrab: Bridge of Eldin. I was watching the japanese pros going at it, a guy's dedede just kept chaingrabbing Ike over and over and over so that can be an issue on a walk-off stage...

 

[JC-Gamer]

Does the fact that Peach can constantly use Peach Bomber in the middle pit ban the stage?

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Is Wall Bombing comfirmed in or something? But, anyway, that would be considered a method of stalling in a location that an opponent is likely to die if he pursuits, so that sort of tactic would likely be ban (like it is in Melee), and not the stage itself. The reason Fourside was banned in Melee wasn't because of the gaps in the stage; it's because there's a tower in the middle, where certain characters (e.g. Marth) would gain a huge advantage for camping of the other side of the tower. They would always gets a better trade off every time the other characters comes over the tower to chase them. Venom and Peach's Castle also had the problem with a "tower" in the middle, so they were also banned.

 

[Wizard99]

scrolling stages like Mushroomy Kingdom could be banned. it's also random

 

[mickaleaf]

Smashville. Why? Because villagers will sometimes laugh at player's misfortune as seen here:

I know what you're thinking. "But Wiseguy, laughter doesn't affect your character at all so how can it count as a stage hazzard?" I'll tell you why. Having someone laugh when you take damage could really hurt a guy's feelings, thus giving an unfair advantage to your opponent while you struggle you see the action onscreen through your tears. No question about it: this stage will be banned.

I really hate that fealing. Thanks for pointing that out.