Banning Dedede's infinite? FIRST POST UPDATED WITH VIDEO.

[JigglyZelda003]

@ mister E
pretty much. ecpecially if DDD just decided "hey i'll do it 3x then let them go, then the next time i get them i'll do it 3 more times and then let them go." or some such thing for lols. if theres no one watching and its not like hes keeping them in it forever.

oh and i say we ban everyone except Peach. automatic balanced game lol.

 

[Drecker]

This thread is about Dedede's infinite.

Not Falco vs Dedede.

Not Fox vs Pikachu.

Not Ice Climbers vs the world.

Stay on topic or I'm getting this thread locked.

 

[Lord Yawgmoth]

Well, they still would for the other characters that have infinites against walls, Dedede isn't the only one.

...the point being that if they do decide to ban Dedede's Infinite on those 5, why not just ban Dedede's infinite against walls and give walled stages back? A side component of this would be that they would have to ban infinites against walls for all characters, which wouldn't be much of a stretch then.

(as said, I don't like walled stages, but I was pointing out that it wouldn't be contradictory to ban his infinite, and not walled stages.)


....I guess my main gripe is with Sirlin, whom the SBR seems to use his logic time and again, but the infinite doesn't fit his "ban criteria". "we don't ban things because they are really cheap, we ban things because they are the best and only choice for winning tournaments" something to that mindset.


The technique is lame,
no doubt about that.


.....and sorry for jumping back into the discussion.... : (



And voodoo, that is not fair to the discussion, people should feel free to compare it to something similar.... such as another ******** almost impossible to win matchup.... if it exists.

 

[cutter]

Didn't Sirlin also say that if a game has something (or somethings) broken in it, we should abandon the game and move on to a better one if banning said stuff failed to make the game better?

 

[Sliq]

Lets just ban Dedede.

Then we can ban ROB, Snake, Falco, Pit, Olimar, and Ice Climbers and we'll have a really fun game on our hands.

Or...we can ban everyone except Captain Falcon! that would make the game SO fun and balanced, no one would ever complain about infinites, MK, chaingrabs, or anything ever again! sounds like a GREAT idea.
/sarcasm >_>

That actually sounds like a fantastic idea. I'll make sure to PM that to an SBR member so they can discuss it in depth.

Or we could add something constructive to the argument as opposed to being fucktards.

 

[XienZo]

This thread is about Dedede's infinite.

Not Falco vs Dedede.

Not Fox vs Pikachu.

Not Ice Climbers vs the world.

Stay on topic or I'm getting this thread locked.

Its easier to compare DDD to someone... if we have someone to compare him to.

Rest assured, all those arguments ARE important to DDD.

Didn't Sirlin also say that if a game has something (or somethings) broken in it, we should abandon the game and move on to a better one if banning said stuff failed to make the game better?

Thats for playing the game. We're going to be so epic, we're going to try CHANGING the rules, which I think Sirlin has a disclaimer noting that his arguments only apply to playing an existing game where the rules are not going to change.

 

[bobson]

But if we ban the infinites completely, doesn't that also require a judge?
In other words, if no judge is watching, what's going to stop the D3 from using infinites?

Same thing that stops them from using Metaknight's IDC or stalling by gliding under the stage over and over.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

You guys are allowed to think for yourselves, I'm sure Sirlin is okay with it.

 

[Thirtyfour]

I didnt read more than 8 posts since after the first four things got off topic.

If by infinite they mean DDD's chaingrab vs characters like samus then no thats just the match up. Welcome to the club says ICs.
If they mean is wall infinite thats the other players fault for not knowing how to camp or just plan avoid the the whole floor that leads to the wall. I see no complaining about Marth or Ike's wall infinites.

Now if its just the normal chaingrab then no. Learn to Falco.

 

[M15t3R E]

Same thing that stops them from using Metaknight's IDC or stalling by gliding under the stage over and over.

I suppose people just don't do the banned techniques because they fear their opponent will notify the TD about it during or after the match.

 

[Sliq]

I didnt read more than 8 posts since after the first four things got off topic.

If by infinite they mean DDD's chaingrab vs characters like samus then no thats just the match up. Welcome to the club says ICs.
If they mean is wall infinite thats the other players fault for not knowing how to camp or just plan avoid the the whole floor that leads to the wall. I see no complaining about Marth or Ike's wall infinites.

Now if its just the normal chaingrab then no. Learn to Falco.

The IC's infinite has already been discredited as an argument agiants D3's. Both IC's need to be present to do it, so just take care of Nana and there is no infinite.

 

[The Milk Monster]

The IC's infinite has already been discredited as an argument agiants D3's. Both IC's need to be present to do it, so just take care of Nana and there is no infinite.

That should be your main concern when fighting the IC's, infinite or not.
Both IC's together are a nightmare.

 

[M15t3R E]

The IC's infinite has already been discredited as an argument agiants D3's. Both IC's need to be present to do it, so just take care of Nana and there is no infinite.

Lol, not to mention the IC's grabs take extreme dedication and precise timing to pull off.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Lol, not to mention the IC's grabs take extreme dedication and precise timing to pull off.

^^^^^This.

 

[Drecker]

Except the part where this is Brawl, and nothing takes more than 20 minutes to figure out.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Except the part where this is Brawl, and nothing takes more than 20 minutes to figure out.

20 minutes seems a little much.

 

[Rhubarbo]

I'm totally against the infinite, I don't know why people like it. His d-throw should be limited to being used 3-5 times consecutively, then a player can call foul.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

yeah it only takes about 20 minutes to get the mechanics for even the ICs down. the problem is being able to pull that off under pressure.

 

[Drecker]

Brawl + Pressure = ¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Except the part where this is Brawl, and nothing takes more than 20 minutes to figure out.

Nothing is really hard to figure out in any smash games, even in technical Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

Stay on topic or I'm getting this thread locked.

[/e-pen!s]

I already won this topic, you can all go home now.

 

[BentoBox]

You guys are allowed to think for yourselves, I'm sure Sirlin is okay with it.

Ilu.

Spoiler

10ILUs

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Brawl + Pressure = ¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?

true, wheres the pressure? lol
but doing something in your living room on the couch vs in a croud of people where there aren't that many second chances and no free reset button are 2 different things. people choke sometimes.

Nothing is really hard to figure out in any smash games, even in technical Melee.

i know right? my pikachu is already kinda decent after just a day of play lol. seriously brawl can be too easy at times.

[/e-pen!s]

I already won this topic, you can all go home now.

lol @ [/e-pen!s]
but i need a ride, can you take me home?

 

[Sliq]

It should be noted that I was infinited in tournament yesterday. That is all.

 

[Clevr]

Wall infinited do not work on everyone. Characters that are too light to be CG will not be wall infinited. FURTHERMORE, you need a wall to be infinited against, whereas D3 can infinite the others WHENEVER HE FEELS LIKE IT. That means you have to be in between D3 and a wall, whereas with DK and Bowser, simply EXISTING ON SCREEN gives him all the oppurtunities he requires.

The flatland throw infinite is considerably more broken then the wall infinites, but stages with walls are banned.

Why not force everyone that plays a character capable of being CG to switch characters on walled stages? I mean, you're forcing DK and Bowser players to switch on ANY stage. You can't have double standards like this and call yourself the elite. It makes the community look like a bunch of *******.

Either walled stages aren't banned and the infinite is allowed, or walled stages are banned and the infinite is banned.

QFT.

10sliqs

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Except the part where this is Brawl, and nothing takes more than 20 minutes to figure out.

QQ

If it's so easy to do the Ice Climber infinities, shouldn't you be out making thousands at tourneys by now?

 

[Dr. Grandpa]

Sigh. I'm a DK mainer and I've always been in the situation with D3 in a battle. It's a unfortunate to say but frankly D3 is too good against DK.

 

[Sliq]

Sigh. I'm a DK mainer and I've always been in the situation with D3 in a battle. It's a unfortunate to say but frankly D3 is too good against DK.

Pick up GW. He is probably the easiest character to pick up and do well with. He has almost 0 advanced techniques, and all of his moves are good. You can almost win without even thinking.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Pick up GW. He is probably the easiest character to pick up and do well with. He has almost 0 advanced techniques, and all of his moves are good. You can almost win without even thinking.

Says the guy who beats NoJ with Booza =P

 

[Sliq]

Says the guy who beats NoJ with Booza =P

That's because NOJ is stupid and does nothing but bair all day, making him predictable as hell. But seriously, GW is necassary for D3.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

why hasn't someone made a poll vote yet

and yes, any technique that makes 5 characters basically useless vs a character is majorly broken

For any person who says no just because they say don't get grabbed
Use DK or mario vs a good D3 and tell me that you were never grabbed.

 

[cutter]

why hasn't someone made a poll vote yet

and yes, any technique that makes 5 characters basically useless vs a character is majorly broken

For any person who says no just because they say don't get grabbed
Use DK or mario vs a good D3 and tell me that you were never grabbed.

You have to be a premium member or a mod to make a poll.

And no the infinite is not broken because it does not affect every single character. For the infinite to be "broken", DDD would have to have standing infinites on all the characters, thus breaking the game.

 

[BentoBox]

Why should a technique need to break the ENTIRE game for it to be considered broken?

 

[bobson]

Because otherwise we'd actually have to take action to get rid of it, and we can't have that.

 

[Calixto]

Sliq spits the truth like hot fire.

 

[TheNix]

As a DK main, I really hate DDD's infinite. What it comes down to is that I have to study every person I may get matched up against in a tournament, and make absolutely sure that they never pick DDD before I can pick DK in the first round. Also, because the infinite is so easy to perform, I can never pick DK when my opponent is on the counterpick, even if that person has not picked DDD at all the entire tournament.

That said, I really don't care if the infinite is banned or not, and I don't expect it to. I can always just go to a secondary in the above situations, which sucks, but it's not as bad as "making DK useless" as some people think it does.

 

[cutter]

Why should a technique need to break the ENTIRE game for it to be considered broken?

Because then it would not be broken, ESPECIALLY when the vast majority of characters are not victimized by the infinite.

Broken means something is so powerful that it is impossible to stop and it becomes the only viable choice in competitive play.

I.E., MK's Infinite Cape.

 

[BentoBox]

So if I were to design this new character that instant-ko'd MK, snake, d3 and GW whenever their hitbox would contact his... You would leave it in because it does not affect the whole cast?

I'm sorry but your definition of broken simply cannot be a standard.

 

[XienZo]

Why should a technique need to break the ENTIRE game for it to be considered broken?

I believe that a technique being broken is more complicated than that.

It has to:

Be not too hard to learn(yes, it actually matters), making it effecient for people to divert their practice time to use a character they would not normally use.

Very common in tournaments as a result of above and other factors like high reward to risk ratio.

Decrease the viability of other characters more than it increases the viability of the character with the technique.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Why are there still posts about stuff like this? If this move can GUARUNTEE a kill 100% of the time, BAN IT!! There are moves in Street Fighter that do the same thing - and it's illegal in a tournament. They don't pull it off all the time; it's situational and very hard to perform, but when they get it it's an instant KO and it's IMBA!! Just like chain grabbing. If im being punished with a stock taken, for simply being grabbed, I'm sorry it's OP. The game is not fundamentally designed to punish a player like that - a grab is a lead in. I can understand more damage, I can understand a throw into a edgeguard or footstool, but a KO is jsut too much. This whole move seems to be the equivalant of 'taking a punch' in street fighter or tekken and dying for it. WTF??

It doesn't MATTER how easy it is to do. FUNDAMENTALLY, in a fighting game, a move that can GRACE you with a KO is IMBA. Even in street fighter, there is a move that will knock your enemy out if you can do it. The move requires precise timing and the situation has to be right - the opponent HAS THE OPPORTUNITY to evade it, if the opponent is hit with this instant KO move, it's his fault.

THIS, is completely ******** however, in that it is a simple move (like a punch or a special) that will KO the enemy. bad bad bad

The dont get grabbed argument is ********. If I'm in a match, fighting whatsoever, there's going to be SOME kind of downtime in my game, and there's GOING to be someone trying to grab me in that downtime if they really want to.

Every other game that has a move like this in it has banned it. Even the ones that are super hard to pull off.

If this move can not guaruntee a KO, then KEEP it IN... but I guess that has yet to be proven esp. in tourneys eh